two nutters RR'd from /tg/station community by MSO

[BonChoi]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Forum poster newbie makes shitty thread title

[TWATICUS]

Seems like a hit on dissenting opinions to me, and I don't think much outside of direct evidence which I know won't be given is going to make me believe differently. The specificity in targets seems too deliberate to my liking.

[Itseasytosee2me]

pepper actually got blacklisted for rigging that talent show all those years ago

[datorangebottle]

badlook.PNG (2.03 KiB) Viewed 43495 times

So did they move the thread out of sight to hide their dirty laundry, or what?
Even Jackrip's blacklist appeals were left public.

[TheRex9001]

So uh, this happened: viewtopic.php?f=34&t=35398

Sinful created an appeal for the permaban that TBM made, not the blacklist ban that MSO made. It gets locked in 7 minutes flat, because apparently the permaban is also part of the blacklist. At least two people posted "lmao owned" during those 7 minutes; both messages have since been deleted. One of them was a headcoder (you get 3 guesses who, and the first 2 don't count) and the other was an admin. Then, Oranges made a peanut thread, which got locked about 10 minutes after it was created for unclear reasons. I think that's a full summary of the recent events. Now that the summary is out of the way...

4) Headmins began reading all the logs (over a hundred thousand messages probably). The issue with this was we were all good friends and shared personal info in this server. I won't go into detail but info that could be considered dox-worthy was in the server. I didn't feel comfortable with anyone, much less admins who we'd badmouthed, flipping through our personal info without even a clear objective. So I reached out to MSO with the concern. He said he'd look into it. This is probably what led to his involvement and (somehow) my blacklist so I regret doing that, but that's neither here nor there.

This part actually looks incredibly concerning. I thought people in this thread were just exaggerating or blowing hot air, talking about admins "digging up drama to ban people." Now I'm not so sure.

the permaban is for the blacklist, it's just more detailed than mso's message, if he doesn't like it he probably shouldn't have done all those things.

Is it not possible to just edit the blacklist ban message?

I can in good faith tell you that only the headmins and mso have seen the full log. Only they have had access, and only they will have access.

[TheRex9001]

alright i get it but why was the appeal made unviewable and then we are told "do not trust the misinformation" - like that just isn't a good look. the only person willing to share an ounce of information on the story is being actively called misinformation? im expecting some kind of fuckin explanation in return here. or not. you don't really have to. but it also means i have zero trust and faith in this entire situation.

Blacklist appeal, so hidden. You cant appeal whilst blacklisted from tg. I totally get your frustration though, and I’d like to see more proof too, however it might not happen if the headmins are afraid it comtains personal data

[iwishforducks]

alright i get it but why was the appeal made unviewable and then we are told "do not trust the misinformation" - like that just isn't a good look. the only person willing to share an ounce of information on the story is being actively called misinformation? im expecting some kind of fuckin explanation in return here. or not. you don't really have to. but it also means i have zero trust and faith in this entire situation.

Blacklist appeal, so hidden. You cant appeal whilst blacklisted from tg. I totally get your frustration though, and I’d like to see more proof too, however it might not happen if the headmins are afraid it comtains personal data

i cannot think of the last time i saw a blacklist appeal get taken down. denied, left to rot- sure. but taken down? not once.

[c4g]

So uh, this happened: viewtopic.php?f=34&t=35398

Sinful created an appeal for the permaban that TBM made, not the blacklist ban that MSO made. It gets locked in 7 minutes flat, because apparently the permaban is also part of the blacklist. At least two people posted "lmao owned" during those 7 minutes; both messages have since been deleted. One of them was a headcoder (you get 3 guesses who, and the first 2 don't count) and the other was an admin. Then, Oranges made a peanut thread, which got locked about 10 minutes after it was created for unclear reasons. I think that's a full summary of the recent events. Now that the summary is out of the way...

4) Headmins began reading all the logs (over a hundred thousand messages probably). The issue with this was we were all good friends and shared personal info in this server. I won't go into detail but info that could be considered dox-worthy was in the server. I didn't feel comfortable with anyone, much less admins who we'd badmouthed, flipping through our personal info without even a clear objective. So I reached out to MSO with the concern. He said he'd look into it. This is probably what led to his involvement and (somehow) my blacklist so I regret doing that, but that's neither here nor there.

This part actually looks incredibly concerning. I thought people in this thread were just exaggerating or blowing hot air, talking about admins "digging up drama to ban people." Now I'm not so sure.

the permaban is for the blacklist, it's just more detailed than mso's message, if he doesn't like it he probably shouldn't have done all those things.

Is it not possible to just edit the blacklist ban message?

I can in good faith tell you that only the headmins and mso have seen the full log. Only they have had access, and only they will have access.

assuming you're talking about the "I didn't feel comfortable with anyone, much less admins who we'd badmouthed, flipping through our personal info without even a clear objective. So I reached out to MSO with the concern," the headmins were the ones being badmouthed. except fikou i think everyone was chill on fikou

[MooCow12]

how the fuck is this 6 pages already also if the personal data is to protect the person that got blacklisted/banned dont they have a right to release info that is just sensitive to them?


I'm assuming the reason everyone is in the dark about alot of it is because its more than just to protect sinful and pepper.

[iwishforducks]

the fact that headmins were sicced on a server's full discord history just to dig up dirt is fucking crazy. there was very clearly a personal squabble going on here.

like seriously, why the fuck are headmins being sicced on the history of entire discord servers? personally, what drives me the most insane about this entire situation, is the fact that they batcaved 3 admins to try to get them to send over the ENTIRE TRANSCRIPTION of the ENTIRE SERVER. on what fucking hunch? like dear fucking god it's a spaceman game. you can fuck right off if you think you have a god given right to strongman three people into giving an entire transcript of personal information of other people. and then to go through every single god damn message?

very clearly a large part of the community wanted sinful gone. that's fine. whatever. i can't say i have a high opinion of sinful myself. but the actions taken here by the administration plain and simply fucking disgust me.

what a fucking disgrace. if this was a hit job, as honestly that's the vibe i'm getting, then we've truly lost sight of ourselves. fucking just ban them at that point. you don't need to go through people's messages like that.

i dont know im pretty pissed right now. nothing about this makes me happy. i'll probably edit this tomorrow or something with more mellowed out thoughts. or i'll regret this idk lol. honestly thought about just making a dumbass joke to get blacklisted, because i've genuinely only found frustration with this community in most recent times. sucks. really like this place; it's like an abusive relationship to me. all this talk about touching grass and separating the drama of this game and yet here we are, headmins literally going through mountains of personal messages just so they can grind an axe

[iwishforducks]

forgot to include this in my message, but what sort of unnerves me a bit is... how common is this practice? like it was the first job of the new headmin team to sift through an entire discord server (with the whole cat metagang bans thing) - then again I can't say I've heard of this sort of thing happening before the cat metagang thing. farthest discord drama i can think of is jackrip, but i don't think that had every message scraped and sifted through.

[TheRex9001]

So uh, this happened: viewtopic.php?f=34&t=35398

Sinful created an appeal for the permaban that TBM made, not the blacklist ban that MSO made. It gets locked in 7 minutes flat, because apparently the permaban is also part of the blacklist. At least two people posted "lmao owned" during those 7 minutes; both messages have since been deleted. One of them was a headcoder (you get 3 guesses who, and the first 2 don't count) and the other was an admin. Then, Oranges made a peanut thread, which got locked about 10 minutes after it was created for unclear reasons. I think that's a full summary of the recent events. Now that the summary is out of the way...

4) Headmins began reading all the logs (over a hundred thousand messages probably). The issue with this was we were all good friends and shared personal info in this server. I won't go into detail but info that could be considered dox-worthy was in the server. I didn't feel comfortable with anyone, much less admins who we'd badmouthed, flipping through our personal info without even a clear objective. So I reached out to MSO with the concern. He said he'd look into it. This is probably what led to his involvement and (somehow) my blacklist so I regret doing that, but that's neither here nor there.

This part actually looks incredibly concerning. I thought people in this thread were just exaggerating or blowing hot air, talking about admins "digging up drama to ban people." Now I'm not so sure.

the permaban is for the blacklist, it's just more detailed than mso's message, if he doesn't like it he probably shouldn't have done all those things.

Is it not possible to just edit the blacklist ban message?

I can in good faith tell you that only the headmins and mso have seen the full log. Only they have had access, and only they will have access.

assuming you're talking about the "I didn't feel comfortable with anyone, much less admins who we'd badmouthed, flipping through our personal info without even a clear objective. So I reached out to MSO with the concern," the headmins were the ones being badmouthed. except fikou i think everyone was chill on fikou

Yeah I get how that would make you uncomfortable, I hope MSO kept it focused. Its clear mso was involved and I don’t think he was looking for their personal information. I don’t know what the investigation looked like, but what they did would’ve been worse than badmouthing admins for a blacklisting.

[kieth4]

I've never seen a blacklist appeal get hidden ever I don't think and I was a headmin what the FUCK. It's fully hidden??? That's absolutely crazy. Didn't see the appeal itself because I was zzzz but I wonder what was written on it to get it insta killed.

In cases like this I can't help but wonder, what was said in malice and what was people venting/coping/trying to show off. Seeing the appeal just killed does leave a bad taste in my mouth.

One lesson that strikes me in all of this is watch what you say in the private GC. People often forget that it's not a safe places where people will just accept all behaviour, they get cozy and break rules and doomer n stuff. You will most likely be held responsible to some extent if you are around these homies even if you yourself are not

ALSO....TO WOULD BE LEAKERS you take pictures of the specific information and send it on. Scraping server logs is one of the biggest scumbag moves you can make imo. All of those private unreleated conversations being read by people? The complete feeling of violation of privacy? Really fucked up hope no one else is subject to this and it's such a fucking concerning trend that's occurring. STOP. DOING. THIS.

Edit: I also hope the people who peanutted on his appeal are punished because they usually aren't.

[c4g]

like seriously, why the fuck are headmins being sicced on the history of entire discord servers? personally, what drives me the most insane about this entire situation, is the fact that they batcaved 3 admins to try to get them to send over the ENTIRE TRANSCRIPTION of the ENTIRE SERVER. on what fucking hunch? like dear fucking god it's a spaceman game. you can fuck right off if you think you have a god given right to strongman three people into giving an entire transcript of personal information of other people. and then to go through every single god damn message?

this has been my big takeaway too now. i think the bans/deadminnings were too severe (sinful did NOT deserve a blacklist imo) but i can see the gist of why they were placed i guess? but the headmins getting their hands on 6 MONTHS worth of logs from a private and personal discord server and digging through it looking for infractions is such an INSANE overreach

I've never seen a blacklist appeal get hidden ever I don't think and I was a headmin what the FUCK. It's fully hidden??? That's absolutely crazy. Didn't see the appeal itself because I was zzzz but I wonder what was written on it to get it insta killed.

i reposted it on the last page if you wanted to read it. the admin team was quick to call it disinformation but aside from the exact ban reasons (cant double check the accuracy rn, would have to logdive as hard as the headmin team has been for the last week to find exactly what they got them on) its an accurate series of events to my memory

[TheRex9001]

I agree that full server logs are excessive, only screenshots of rulebreaks or logs of those specific incidents are enough imho.

[NoxVS]

this has been my big takeaway too now. i think the bans/deadminnings were too severe (sinful did NOT deserve a blacklist imo) but i can see the gist of why they were placed i guess? but the headmins getting their hands on 6 MONTHS worth of logs from a private and personal discord server and digging through it looking for infractions is such an INSANE overreach

How was the deadminning too far?

Also, I imagine they had initial infractions they were aware of if they went looking for more. Doesn't make any sense that they'd suddenly decide to go digging for reasons to ban Sinful and Anime out of nowhere.

[MooCow12]

Well anime did get into trouble leading up to this because they doom posted on the discord about how the server was gonna die and omega mistook it as them defending the people who said the bad things during the terry chapel incident.


Actually I think it was a pretty bad faith twist of meaning from omega's part because if you look at anime's post leading up to the ones that got them banned it was pretty clear they were doomposting but the appeal was successful enough anyway.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

I think that in the grounds of fairness, the full logs of every server the head admins are in on Discord should be leaked in full to the playerbase so they can go through the entire thing looking for any behaviour or messages from them which might potentially be a break of the TGstation rules too.

This post brought to you by the tortured spirit of john Oxford i keep trapped in a salt circle in the basement

[c4g]

this has been my big takeaway too now. i think the bans/deadminnings were too severe (sinful did NOT deserve a blacklist imo) but i can see the gist of why they were placed i guess? but the headmins getting their hands on 6 MONTHS worth of logs from a private and personal discord server and digging through it looking for infractions is such an INSANE overreach

How was the deadminning too far?

again, i don't know the specific adminbus leak she was dropped for because i haven't gone logdiving myself, and because like sinful said in his appeal, nobody's been given the exact messages they were banned for despite them apparently being shared with the rest of the admin team. but the only screenshots i ever saw charley post from adminbus were of her own posts with zero administrative value (it was a dramatization of some players club drama or a recent public ban iirc?) and one person's equally unimportant reaction to it. maybe she should've gotten a warning or something but deadminning her and stripping her event planner status was an overreaction imo. i don't know what specific breaches of conduct the admin staffing log is referring to, and as far as i know she doesn't either.

for alamo i understand why they were deadminned but i think the permaban on top of that is too much for what was actually said. from what i know, the most private player information they actually shared was sharing that a certain tg player was using a new ckey and revealing said ckey. deadminnable, yeah, sure, but i don't think it warranted the perma

[NoxVS]

this has been my big takeaway too now. i think the bans/deadminnings were too severe (sinful did NOT deserve a blacklist imo) but i can see the gist of why they were placed i guess? but the headmins getting their hands on 6 MONTHS worth of logs from a private and personal discord server and digging through it looking for infractions is such an INSANE overreach

How was the deadminning too far?

again, i don't know the specific adminbus leak she was dropped for because i haven't gone logdiving myself, and because like sinful said in his appeal, nobody's been given the exact messages they were banned for despite them apparently being shared with the rest of the admin team. but the only screenshots i ever saw charley post from adminbus were of her own posts with zero administrative value (it was a dramatization of some players club drama or a recent public ban iirc?) and one person's equally unimportant reaction to it. maybe she should've gotten a warning or something but deadminning her and stripping her event planner status was an overreaction imo. i don't know what specific breaches of conduct the admin staffing log is referring to, and as far as i know she doesn't either.

for alamo i understand why they were deadminned but i think the permaban on top of that is too much for what was actually said. from what i know, the most private player information they actually shared was sharing that a certain tg player was using a new ckey and revealing said ckey. deadminnable, yeah, sure, but i don't think it warranted the perma

You leak bus you die.

You leak player details you super die.

The warning was given when they were made admins. Every admin knows this. Doesn't matter how little the rulebreak was compared to how it could have been - There is a clearly defined line that was crossed and these are the repercussions that they have known would happen were they to break these rules since the moment they became admins.

Also, they definitely know exactly what conduct breaches they had, there's no way they weren't asked to explain themselves. If they were just going to be thrown into the sun without questioning they wouldn't have needed a batcave.

[Fikou]

nobody's been given the exact messages they were banned for despite them apparently being shared with the rest of the admin team.

the only messages given to the admin team have been the logs that broke admin conduct, anything else (all the stuff relating to players) is not public

[dirk_mcblade]

Don't join private discords. The internet is a den of vipers.

[junkgle]

nobody's been given the exact messages they were banned for despite them apparently being shared with the rest of the admin team.

the only messages given to the admin team have been the logs that broke admin conduct, anything else (all the stuff relating to players) is not public

i think u misread. she did not imply otherwise

[Fikou]

nobody's been given the exact messages they were banned for despite them apparently being shared with the rest of the admin team.

the only messages given to the admin team have been the logs that broke admin conduct, anything else (all the stuff relating to players) is not public

i think u misread. she did not imply otherwise

nobody implied to me the players too, but youre right, im a little groggy today.
the deadmin that asked was provided with the logs as well

[technokek]

for context, here's sinful's appeal before it got got


hope its alright to post this, if its not whatever there it goes

The admins 1984in a thread that puts them in a bad light is pretty concerning and only puts credibility to those concerns.

[CMDR_Gungnir]

for context, here's sinful's appeal before it got got


hope its alright to post this, if its not whatever there it goes

The admins 1984in a thread that puts them in a bad light is pretty concerning and only puts credibility to those concerns.

I definitely find it concerning that they keep bringing up "A blacklist is a ban from appealing, too" when every single other blacklist appeal has been either Simply Closed, or allowed to exist for a while to see if MSO will look at it.

This hard-delete is a first.

[Constellado]

I've never seen a blacklist appeal get hidden ever I don't think and I was a headmin what the FUCK. It's fully hidden??? That's absolutely crazy. Didn't see the appeal itself because I was zzzz but I wonder what was written on it to get it insta killed.

In cases like this I can't help but wonder, what was said in malice and what was people venting/coping/trying to show off. Seeing the appeal just killed does leave a bad taste in my mouth.

One lesson that strikes me in all of this is watch what you say in the private GC. People often forget that it's not a safe places where people will just accept all behaviour, they get cozy and break rules and doomer n stuff. You will most likely be held responsible to some extent if you are around these homies even if you yourself are not

ALSO....TO WOULD BE LEAKERS you take pictures of the specific information and send it on. Scraping server logs is one of the biggest scumbag moves you can make imo. All of those private unreleated conversations being read by people? The complete feeling of violation of privacy? Really fucked up hope no one else is subject to this and it's such a fucking concerning trend that's occurring. STOP. DOING. THIS.

Edit: I also hope the people who peanutted on his appeal are punished because they usually aren't.

I agree with this. This in its entirety is perfectly in words how I think about the situation.

[Hernacious]

discord was a mistake

[kinnebian]

i somehow knew id regret my earlier statements while making them
i cant believe i let myself make fun of people based off of blind trust
fuck
im sorry, dude
i need to have a look at this situation again

[kinnebian]

why the fuck was the appeal deleted exactly? all that does is make you guys look worse

[Turbonerd]

Why are people surprised that a blacklist appeal got hidden? It's a blacklist. They're not supposed to be able to make a presence on the community. The fact that the Jackrip wasn't hidden was a real shocker to the community. He could've doxxed everyone or sometbing, who knows. The appeals should've never been able to be created in the first place.

[kinnebian]

Why are people surprised that a blacklist appeal got hidden? It's a blacklist. They're not supposed to be able to make a presence on the community. The fact that the Jackrip wasn't hidden was a real shocker to the community. He could've doxxed everyone or sometbing, who knows. The appeals should've never been able to be created in the first place.

They usually dont get hidden, it also wouldve been a great oppurtunity to explain their reasoning further, given the confusion and drama around the ban.

[Turbonerd]

Why are people surprised that a blacklist appeal got hidden? It's a blacklist. They're not supposed to be able to make a presence on the community. The fact that the Jackrip wasn't hidden was a real shocker to the community. He could've doxxed everyone or sometbing, who knows. The appeals should've never been able to be created in the first place.

They usually dont get hidden, it also wouldve been a great oppurtunity to explain their reasoning further, given the confusion and drama around the ban.

Nothing good could ever happen from letting a blacklisted person speak. They'll just try to cause more drama.

[Timberpoes]

A number of other "recent" blacklist appeals have been under my headmin terms.

In the process of that I make a judgement call on if the blacklist appeal has any merit at all conceptually due to extreme passage of time, evidence of reform, evidence of mistake, sincere apology, effort and the individual nuances.

But the truth is that wasn't within my powers to do as a headmin. The immediate response for all blacklist appeals is to close it and ban their forum account because blacklists are not appealable.

I take the blame for spoiling a lot of people that have appealed blacklists while I was headmin by not instantly closing ones with effort or enough "ban appeal" style merit.

viewtopic.php?f=34&t=33983&p=683915&hil ... st#p683915 - instantly closed because it was made too close to the blacklisting time, my headmin term, I handled it

viewtopic.php?p=671490#p671490 - left open due to the nature of the appeal, my headmin term, I handled it

viewtopic.php?p=664566#p664566 - left open due to the nature of the appeal, my headmin term, I handled it

viewtopic.php?p=660688#p660688 - left open after discovering blacklist status due to the nature of the appeal, my headmin term, I handled it

We've has like 2 years of Timberpoes skill issues in blacklists. The appropriate response when a blacklisted player appeals is to close it, then ban their forum account. Because they're blacklisted.

Sinful is blacklisted and it is too close to the time the blacklist was placed (same handling as the
Seren/Slurge blacklist from the above list). That's really all there is to it.

I actually handled it the same as the most recent blacklist appeal that fell under the same set of circumstances from my last headmin term.

The appeal being hidden is a new one, but fuck it they're already headmins there's nothing you can do to stop them.

I take complete responsibility for the perspective that blacklisted players have to be given a chance to put their side of the story forward.

They don't. The second they are blacklisted by MSO, they are fucking gone unless he feels like changing that and nobody else has any say or power beyond that.

[Timberpoes]

Edit: I also hope the people who peanutted on his appeal are punished because they usually aren't.

More people speaking out of their arses on this one. Full fact reveal.

The peanut post was an oranges shitpost that was in the approval queue.

It was approved by an admin.

I modified the post author to the admin that approved it, then warned that admin for it while dendy was deleting the shitpost.

They had no prior warnings or whatever for forum conduct so it was left at that.

My stance is approving a peanut is the same as posting it yourself. So that's my reasoning for it.

[CMDR_Gungnir]

The appeal being hidden is a new one, but fuck it they're already headmins there's nothing you can do to stop them.

My issue is solely with this part. I wouldn't mind "I'm sorry, you've been blacklisted, go away" and close.

But when we have one of the most contentious bans in recent history, and then the appeal is outright HIDDEN, a first time this has happened, it's suddenly very concerning. And for the sake of my belief in open honesty, hearing the headmins start spouting the "Blacklists are unappealable, this is normal" while ALSO doing something that isn't normal, and of which is the part that people are actually concerned about, honestly just muddies my opinion a lot more.

It feels very...desperate, to sweep it under the rug. And I hope I don't need to explain why it raises a sense of concern.

[Timberpoes]

Honestly, player concerns are irrelevant.

If MSO wanted to reveal any evidence of why he placed them on the blacklist, he can.

Until MSO does that, the rest of us can genuinely pound sand. The headmins aren't leaking any evidence, obviously.

And I'm fine with that. Hell, I even prefer it. The fastest way to stop people telling you things in private is to copy any parts of those private things into the public.

As a headmin, the fact that I can be trusted with secret, private or confidential information has always trumped transparency, and where privacy and transparency conflict I always favour privacy otherwise people stop telling me things.

Screaming transparency up until the point it's my ERP logs with kieth being combed through due to an accusation by someone that I took advantage of him last term, then I appreciate that the default stance for headmin level decisions is to not tell anyone anything except the bare minimum necessary.

[Edit] Sometimes it's possible to be transparent while protecting privacy. This is a dangerous path to walk, and only a rare few people ever risk it.

[kieth4]

Edit: I also hope the people who peanutted on his appeal are punished because they usually aren't.

More people speaking out of their arses on this one. Full fact reveal.

The peanut post was an oranges shitpost that was in the approval queue.

It was approved by an admin.

I modified the post author to the admin that approved it, then warned that admin for it while dendy was deleting the shitpost.

They had no prior warnings or whatever for forum conduct so it was left at that.

My stance is approving a peanut is the same as posting it yourself. So that's my reasoning for it.

Yeah OK that's epic

[chocolate_bickie]

Screaming transparency up until the point it's my ERP logs with kieth being combed through...

Another satisfied Timberpoes voter.

[Imitates-The-Lizards]

Screaming transparency up until the point it's my ERP logs with kieth being combed through due to an accusation by someone that I took advantage of him last term

I demand an immediate release of these logs or else you're a 1984

[Timberpoes]

I'm actually the final sequel of the 1980 rebuild, 1984.0 + 1.01 Thrice Upon A Blacklist

[Capsandi]

Alright well fuck me for going out and partying on friday night and you guys say I should be put on post time out.

Anyone claiming that unappealable blacklists are out of the ordinary have no idea what a blacklist is. Like did you just think it was a ingame permaban + site & wiki ban?
Iamgoofball General is REQUIRED READING when discussing blacklists. Do not continue until you have an intimate understanding blacklist caselaw thank you.

[Jacquerel]

to be clear about people taalking about the appeal being deleted: mso can actually still see it and he's the person the appeal is for
i understand you would also like to see it because we like to gossip about appeals but it doesn't help sinfulbliss one way or the other
because it is impossible for sinful to provide evidence that he is innocent, the appeal doesnt contain any, so it adds nothing to the he said vs they said nature of the conversation

personally i probably wouldnt have hidden it, but also he wasnt supposed to even be able to post it there was just a fuckup when banning him from the forums

[conrad]

i understand you would also like to see it because we like to gossip about appeals but it doesn't help sinfulbliss one way or the other

I'm of the personal unhinged opinion that anyone wanting evidence released is either paranoid that they're gonna be next or a drama hound that wants to froth at the mouth while pogging outta their minds.

Because surely no one is stupid enough to think MSO slapped the blacklists on a whim without thinking. More people would be blacklisted more often if that were the case, c'mon.

And a blacklist is unapealable. It's joever. Timberpoes allowing the blacklist appeals he posted to last as long as they did during his term was ultimately fruitless...'cos that's what a blacklist is. You could interpret what he did as a compassionate act to get MSO's attention, sure, but that doesn't mean anyone has the authority to revert it. Capsandi put it nicely in his post above.

So if you're the former, you're fine. The best piece of advice in this thread is Timberpoes' (I think) saying that a private conversation is only private until someone leaks it. If you're not going out of your way to be a goblin nobody cares what you do. Go play spaceman game and have fun. As a personal interpretation of what's happening, I think Sinful and Pepper's fate on this is more than the last month and a half of stuff happening. They've very, very rarely been mentioned in the admin channels positively. If you're in a metacord where rules are being broken and don't participate, and the metacord is leaked, chances are nothing is gonna happen to you. At worst you get noted (and I would disagree with that note since it serves no purpose. What, you're gonna get banned in the future for serial metacord rulebreak witnessing?). See the results of the cat metacord from the end of last term and beginning of this one.

If you're the latter, got touch grass you fucking creep.

[Armhulen]

page 7 lads... and sufficed to say, the narrator is hella unreliable rn

[Armhulen]

Nobody actually wants to release anything, regardless of what anyone involved is saying. Sinful made an appeal and it was just text. Headmins made a permaban show up in the log and it was text. Both parties have a story for (You) and that leaves us to simply decide who to believe. I have to believe that MSO isn't slapping blacklists on headmin's request to get rid of people they dont like because I inherently trust MSO with a LOT of my privacy and sensitive details and whatnot. I've seen him consider blacklists and conduct himself as a former headmin, he didn't let me down.

Whatever, I get the big idea. The logs are ugly, people saying awful things about other people, things that they would not say in public spaces. This is why it will be left as a text "he said she said" situation. And oranges was right 5 pages ago.

[Jacquerel]

i think its only page 7 for you because you can see deleted posts, for the rest of us peasants its still page 6 unless this turns out to be the first post of page 7

[wesoda25]

I always enjoyed interacting with sinful in game and on discord, I'm going to miss him in this community. I understand and respect that a lot of private and personal information is involved in this and as such it won't be released. I don't need to see it and I didn't ask him to see it for that reason. However, it is upsetting to see someone whose presence I enjoyed be removed without ever concretely knowing why. Yes, this is something of an empty post. I'm just frustrated with the dialogue surrounding this and that's unfortunately the only thing in regards to this ban that I can affect.

[InternJohn]

I always enjoyed interacting with sinful in game and on discord, I'm going to miss him in this community. I understand and respect that a lot of private and personal information is involved in this and as such it won't be released. I don't need to see it and I didn't ask him to see it for that reason. However, it is upsetting to see someone whose presence I enjoyed be removed without ever concretely knowing why. Yes, this is something of an empty post. I'm just frustrated with the dialogue surrounding this and that's unfortunately the only thing in regards to this ban that I can affect.

Agreed. I've known Sinful to be a positive member of the community, just sometimes he could be insufferable in-game. But I've never personally had issues with him, and this entire thing is just very odd. I'm going to miss my friend and his yellow hair.

Overall I think the collective worry among people is that this was a personal hitjob on Sinful by the admins/MSO. But I don't really know MSO, and I don't think Sinful did either. I do know from reading the appeal, and talking to Sinful on discord, it looks like Sinful was actively seeking out MSO's help to resolve an issue. So it's just incredibly weird that admins/MSO would comb through so many logs of text just to vaporize 2 people like that. I don't think it was handled as well as it could have been, I always expected Sinful to eventually get QC banned, and I wouldn't have been surprised if I saw it, not this...

But there is nothing we can do except either hope MSO becomes merciful, or gives us better understanding of what happened.

[datorangebottle]

Nothing good could ever happen from letting a blacklisted person speak. They'll just try to cause more drama.

Remember when a headmin was so biased against Sinfulbliss that he combed through his entire player's club logs just to clutch at straws for reasons to ban him?
I'm sensing a similar situation here, though I can't confirm it because the headmins covered themselves by hiding the appeal and not responding to it. I'm generally aware of who he is as a person, and the thing he stands accused of is very out of character for him.

My current theory is as follows:
He was a controversial figure in the community; a decent chunk of players like him, a decent chunk of admins hate him(apparently he's a monster in tickets/appeals?). This doesn't result in a quality control ban; those are usually reserved for people hated universally. Some number of headmins, wanting him gone for good, combed through everything they could to find something to ban him for, and eventually settled on a joke. They took the joke out of context and hyped it up to get MSO to agree to the blacklist.
These are the theories you allow to exist by inadequately presenting your side of the story. The sad thing is that there's likely a grain of truth in here somewhere.
p.s. no sinful has not given me his side of the story in private. I am not privy to the same level of information his other friends have had; we don't talk that much at the moment.

[Armhulen]

I always enjoyed interacting with sinful in game and on discord, I'm going to miss him in this community. I understand and respect that a lot of private and personal information is involved in this and as such it won't be released. I don't need to see it and I didn't ask him to see it for that reason. However, it is upsetting to see someone whose presence I enjoyed be removed without ever concretely knowing why. Yes, this is something of an empty post. I'm just frustrated with the dialogue surrounding this and that's unfortunately the only thing in regards to this ban that I can affect.

Agreed. I've known Sinful to be a positive member of the community, just sometimes he could be insufferable in-game. But I've never personally had issues with him, and this entire thing is just very odd. I'm going to miss my friend and his yellow hair.



OIG.DdQ.jpg



Overall I think the collective worry among people is that this was a personal hitjob on Sinful by the admins/MSO. But I don't really know MSO, and I don't think Sinful did either. I do know from reading the appeal, and talking to Sinful on discord, it looks like Sinful was actively seeking out MSO's help to resolve an issue. So it's just incredibly weird that admins/MSO would comb through so many logs of text just to vaporize 2 people like that. I don't think it was handled as well as it could have been, I always expected Sinful to eventually get QC banned, and I wouldn't have been surprised if I saw it, not this...

But there is nothing we can do except either hope MSO becomes merciful, or gives us better understanding of what happened.

Adding my own Sinful fan post to this chain, I really enjoyed Sinful's shennanigans in all the spaces he inhabited and I really will miss him. And this is coming from a forum mod who butted heads with sinful's posts often.

[kieth4]

I always enjoyed interacting with sinful in game and on discord, I'm going to miss him in this community. I understand and respect that a lot of private and personal information is involved in this and as such it won't be released. I don't need to see it and I didn't ask him to see it for that reason. However, it is upsetting to see someone whose presence I enjoyed be removed without ever concretely knowing why. Yes, this is something of an empty post. I'm just frustrated with the dialogue surrounding this and that's unfortunately the only thing in regards to this ban that I can affect.

Agreed. I've known Sinful to be a positive member of the community, just sometimes he could be insufferable in-game. But I've never personally had issues with him, and this entire thing is just very odd. I'm going to miss my friend and his yellow hair.



OIG.DdQ.jpg



Overall I think the collective worry among people is that this was a personal hitjob on Sinful by the admins/MSO. But I don't really know MSO, and I don't think Sinful did either. I do know from reading the appeal, and talking to Sinful on discord, it looks like Sinful was actively seeking out MSO's help to resolve an issue. So it's just incredibly weird that admins/MSO would comb through so many logs of text just to vaporize 2 people like that. I don't think it was handled as well as it could have been, I always expected Sinful to eventually get QC banned, and I wouldn't have been surprised if I saw it, not this...

But there is nothing we can do except either hope MSO becomes merciful, or gives us better understanding of what happened.

Adding my own Sinful fan post to this chain, I really enjoyed Sinful's shennanigans in all the spaces he inhabited and I really will miss him. And this is coming from a forum mod who butted heads with sinful's posts often.

Adding my own 2 cents, every lost hos high hour hos player is 1 more to fight in policy with. you will be missed fr