Lasering right into a headmin review.

[Constellado]

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=35646

What do you think? If you know you are helping an antag build a death machine, should you be allowed to help them?

[kinnebian]

ban type: unfun ban

so true!!

[kinnebian]

also, can someone tell archie to take it back a notch? they come off as cold and a bit of an asshole, no wonder they guy went right for a headmin review

[PapaMichael]

Everyone who gets denied, within a rounding error, requests a headmin review.
Why even bother making them ask?

[DrAmazing343]

Archie didn't really come off as cold to me here, just concise and professional. They laid only straight-up facts about the case without any real opinion, they were just curt with it.

The venn diagram between the type of person who'd build a laser death ray machine in the hallways and the type of person who asks for headmin review off a denial on a three day(!!!) ban is a fucking circle.

Despite being labelled an unfun ban, it's absolutely hilarious to read about this.

[dendydoom]

i think it's fine to ask for a headmin review in this case where the appeal was addressed and rejected all in one post. what the small print of a headmin review is supposed to insinuate is that if the banning admin is trying to work with you but you just want to speak to a manager, the manager might tell you to sort it out yourself.

there is a rule 4 precedent around helping antags do antag things:

Regular crewmembers can assist antagonists with good IC reasoning, but assisting an antagonist doesn't mean you get a pass on acting like one. If in doubt, ask an admin if a particular action is okay. Depending on the level of assistance, sufficient IC reasoning ranges from treating everyone who goes into medbay regardless of their history, to bartering contraband, to performing actions under threat of death.

there is also this rule 1 precedent around "destructive items" (i'm positing that the emitter contraption they built is in itself one of these destructive items):

Do not facilitate player deaths for poor IC reasoning. Distributing bombs or other similarly destructive items can leave you responsible for how they are used if not cleared with an admin first.

i don't see any discussion of the "IC reason" just that they were an engineer. you could argue that this is enough of an IC reason to help someone build anything, but they seemingly chose to forego this route and focus on the classic "but what about the other people breaking the rules?"

i'm not going to say this isn't a productive approach to the issue but at its core it's not really a denial of guilt - yes, perhaps other people were also breaking the rules, but it doesn't refute the fact that you appear to have done so too.

[BonChoi]

headmin opinion pls thx

[Ezel]

yes pls thx

[Ezel]

i only did it cuz somebody told me to i couldn't care less about 3 day ban just wanted to see a discussion and opinions about it

[Dax Dupont]

Did we have a nut for his last appeal because i can't find it
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=35514

[dragomagol]

Mixed feelings about this one leaning towards valid ban; I would want to see what the relay looked like. Was it a single laser firing down the halls? Was it hall width? Was it wiping people out so quickly that they couldn't dismantle this contraption and beat down the players responsible? Shoulda made a line of caution tile decals along the firing path tbh

[Ezel]

Did we have a nut for his last appeal because i can't find it
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=35514

Last appeal was the bombing in revs round which was created by sinfull

[Ezel]

Mixed feelings about this one leaning towards valid ban; I would want to see what the relay looked like. Was it a single laser firing down the halls? Was it hall width? Was it wiping people out so quickly that they couldn't dismantle this contraption and beat down the players responsible? Shoulda made a line of caution tile decals along the firing path tbh

Single line, other non antag and abdul was triggering it with a infrared sensor/signaller assembly

[Ezel]

Dunno what else you want really
Abdul asked for emitters, asked how to get the reflector boxes, and then how to add signallers to them i gave it to him and then he killed people with the contraption with a infrared/signaller assembly but i guess i am guilty of being the supplier
What next ban chemists for handing out dangerous chems because a person asked for them?

[kinnebian]

you cant triplepost in your own peanut thats like 5 rules broken at once

[DrAmazing343]

social anxiety is afraid of HIM

[Ezel]

you cant triplepost in your own peanut thats like 5 rules broken at once

Idk wheres these peanut rules but wherever there are it sure is in a place i can't read due messy structure

[TheLoLSwat]

if your appeal gets denied immediately (in 1 post) what else would you do other than request a headmin review? also posting in your own peanut as a player or admin is cringe and we need to shame ppl for it again

[Scriptis]

rule of cool. you should be able to build whatever you want, no matter how lethal it is, as long as it has even the slightest amount of safeties

if you spend an hour building something stupid but you put good effort into keeping it safe up to that point and it kills half the crew through happenstance or antagonism it shouldn't be your fault imho

unless you do it every round in which case rule 7 oh nooo

build stupid shit it's hilarious and is the beating heart of this game

with the limited context i have i call this a typical rule 0 situation. i am unable to make the call as to whether it should have been applied

[iansdoor]

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=35646

What do you think? If you know you are helping an antag build a death machine, should you be allowed to help them?

Fickled situation, one hand you see a novice trying something new and asks you questions about what to do and you just join in and see where it goes and the other hand, emitters don't play around and those 3 in engineering will crit you every time you walk past the window, looking into the yellow rock.

I am curious to know how many folks were gotten and what the setup looked like! Maybe it was like brick mortars 96 emitter array of death, but I doubt that.

[kieth4]

I think as much as we pipe on about this being a social game moments like this remind me that it's not.

If you do something solo it's fine and dandy but when you use social skills to employ someone else "hey I'm new can you teach me?" They get banned.

I see a lot of talk that if you do something in roleplay you should be able to avoid the rules and I'd like to see that employed here. A veteran engineer helping a new engineer with a goofy project that he doesn't think will amount to much harm at all only to realise that the guy he helped is an evil monster and he ended up building a crazy death Ray and now he needs to stop him is peak fucking rp and you cannot convince me otherwise.

Edit: I wish this wasn't I closed, I wish this had been removed and it's saddening that employing help from those around you as an antagonist gets them banned. So much for a social roleplay game man ERGHHH

[DrAmazing343]

I think as much as we pipe on about this being a social game moments like this remind me that it's not.

If you do something solo it's fine and dandy but when you use social skills to employ someone else "hey I'm new can you teach me?" They get banned.

I see a lot of talk that if you do something in roleplay you should be able to avoid the rules and I'd like to see that employed here. A veteran engineer helping a new engineer with a goofy project that he doesn't think will amount to much harm at all only to realise that the guy he helped is an evil monster and he ended up building a crazy death Ray and now he needs to stop him is peak fucking rp and you cannot convince me otherwise.

Edit: I wish this wasn't I closed, I wish this had been removed and it's saddening that employing help from those around you as an antagonist gets them banned. So much for a social roleplay game man ERGHHH

you have a real-ass point here, but the flipside is the ever-present threat of metafriending antags among other sort of issues along that spectrum. One of the many cases I've observed this week in particular that sadden me because we Cannot Have Nice Things

[Misdoubtful]

Its always nice to see the bit I added about headmin reviews come up for otherwise stonewalled threads.

[kieth4]

I think as much as we pipe on about this being a social game moments like this remind me that it's not.

If you do something solo it's fine and dandy but when you use social skills to employ someone else "hey I'm new can you teach me?" They get banned.

I see a lot of talk that if you do something in roleplay you should be able to avoid the rules and I'd like to see that employed here. A veteran engineer helping a new engineer with a goofy project that he doesn't think will amount to much harm at all only to realise that the guy he helped is an evil monster and he ended up building a crazy death Ray and now he needs to stop him is peak fucking rp and you cannot convince me otherwise.

Edit: I wish this wasn't I closed, I wish this had been removed and it's saddening that employing help from those around you as an antagonist gets them banned. So much for a social roleplay game man ERGHHH

you have a real-ass point here, but the flipside is the ever-present threat of metafriending antags among other sort of issues along that spectrum. One of the many cases I've observed this week in particular that sadden me because we Cannot Have Nice Things

I think metafriending antags is an entirely different issue tbh.

This ban hurts me because I cannot do engi or atmos or chem so sometimes as an antag I ask the chemist or atmos for a bomb or chem or some shit with an obviously bs reason and they comply!

If one of them got banned after I rped asking them for help and they said yes I can't say I'd be happy

[wesoda25]

BAAAAA BAAAAAA im a little sheep BAAAA BAAAA dont post in ur thread BAAAAA

ALL I hear around this place

[TheLoLSwat]

BAAAAA BAAAAAA im a little sheep BAAAA BAAAA dont post in ur thread BAAAAA

ALL I hear around this place

ratio

[gameaddict07]

If engineers weren't allowed to build stupid, highly dangerous machines with no practical use then this game would be much more boring, and the only people left playing engi would be the ones that treat it as Assistant Deluxe.

[Constellado]

I agree with Keith here personally.

But you need to RP it and explain it in character to admins to make it work.

I am sure doing a good old bribe will make the admins be more lenient. Oh, you got bribed? That's a good IC reason ok you are free to go.

Maybe? Please tell me if that is not the case. I give antags the black box when I get something for it for example. You thought I was a goodie twoshoes? No. Bribeable.

[DrAmazing343]

I am very bribeable yeah I’ve gone from straight-up “I know you’re up to some shit” to “…how many credits again?”

[EmpressMaia]

I do jobs for psychedelics and credits ingame

[TheRex9001]

Listen, making some super emitter deathbeam can be kinda cool but in this case they assembled it to just shoot into the hallway and kill people. This could’ve been rule 0 if there was some amount of roleplay or anything put into it, instead this just feels like self-antagging with more steps.

[vect0r]

Archie didn't really come off as cold to me here, just concise and professional. They laid only straight-up facts about the case without any real opinion, they were just curt with it.

The venn diagram between the type of person who'd build a laser death ray machine in the hallways and the type of person who asks for headmin review off a denial on a three day(!!!) ban is a fucking circle.

Despite being labelled an unfun ban, it's absolutely hilarious to read about this.

Disappointed you think I would ask for a headmin review on a three day ban.
Off topic, as a created of death machines a lot of the time, as long as they are interesting (IE glass holodeck) and have some safeties, you should be allowed to do dumb stuff as non-antag. I hope that my death machines bring fun and make people have a wow holy shit moment. Like I have had an emitter setup that got the HOS as a trap, and also built a vending machine trap, and they told me after the shift that it got them to chuckle when they triggered it, and that’s the kind of feeling I want to give to everyone, just stupid machines that bring joy by being dumb ways to die. Idk I’m sure this is a good ban I haven’t read the appeal

[DrAmazing343]

Archie didn't really come off as cold to me here, just concise and professional. They laid only straight-up facts about the case without any real opinion, they were just curt with it.

The venn diagram between the type of person who'd build a laser death ray machine in the hallways and the type of person who asks for headmin review off a denial on a three day(!!!) ban is a fucking circle.

Despite being labelled an unfun ban, it's absolutely hilarious to read about this.

Disappointed you think I would ask for a headmin review on a three day ban.
Off topic, as a created of death machines a lot of the time, as long as they are interesting (IE glass holodeck) and have some safeties, you should be allowed to do dumb stuff as non-antag. I hope that my death machines bring fun and make people have a wow holy shit moment. Like I have had an emitter setup that got the HOS as a trap, and also built a vending machine trap, and they told me after the shift that it got them to chuckle when they triggered it, and that’s the kind of feeling I want to give to everyone, just stupid machines that bring joy by being dumb ways to die. Idk I’m sure this is a good ban I haven’t read the appeal

okay this is true actually but your death machines fucking rule and don't tend to get people hurt irrevertably, so you must be doing SOMETHING right. I wrote that off-the-cuff, so take no heed to it. Help me make a mass-driver chain straight into the SM from outside engineering sometime please <3