🌙 Headmin Election 19 Discussion Thread 🌙

[dragomagol]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Who will wax? Who will wane? Will Cheshify make someone cry at the debates? Find out on today's edition of the Headmin Elections!

Campaign Threads:
Rex9001
Kieth4
Timberpoes
TheBibleMelts
WalterMeldron
Kinnebian
DendyDoom
Tegun
Tattle

[TheBibleMelts]

We better get more candidates.
I'm not sure what I think of anyone outside of timberpoes.

Keith4 wasn't a great headmin and most of his ideas are "meh" at best. I'm divided over TBM while they have done good things I don't feel like they're the right way for me, Walter's a great dude but his thread and points feel bare but it's early days, rex's has a few busywork points when it comes to bureaucracy.

No one is perfect! But we can strive to be. Could you be more specific about the busywork parts?

The adminpm guideline and headmins always posting "we're looking into this" makes it feels like we're some kind of call center. I fear it might lead to more soulless handling of tickets.

I'm not great at describing nit

The problem is that we also get feedback saying that we're not professional enough in how we handle things, so like...

admins ain't being paid, they don't need to act like outsourced customer service representatives. as long as they're being cool and helpful I couldn't be caught dead giving a damn about how casual they're acting.

[TheRex9001]

Admins don’t have to act proffessional, but you shouldnt be a dick. I think everyone likes to know that someone is looking into something and regardless of how we feel a nice and friendly ending cuts down a lot of frustration. If something ends well you will look back on the whole thing better.

[DrAmazing343]

-my own goddamn gladiatorial snip-

me watching the proceedings reclined on a silk chaise longue while a trialmin feeds me grapes and another fans me with a big palm leaf

Putting your fist up to give the thumbs up or thumbs down as the court vizier spawns a fire axe that overrides the decap PR for the winner to take their head off

[DrAmazing343]

We should answer all ahelps in character

imagining getting verbally berated for all of my character failures for half an hour (I ahelped because my uplink broke)

[Constellado]

There is not enough candidates so far in my opinion.

Where are all the funny candidates? Why ban em from posting?

[dendydoom]

me watching the proceedings reclined on a silk chaise longue while a trialmin feeds me grapes and another fans me with a big palm leaf

Which trialmins?

epoc, he's been impressing me lately

and uhhhhhhhhhhhh

snaps fingers

you

[kinnebian]

i will run next term i think

SIKE

[warbluke]

I forgot to vote last year and the year before that I think I went by which username I thought was the coolest. Maybe this will finally be the year I practice educated voting or maybe I'll go off of Forum pfp.

[Archie700]

There is not enough candidates so far in my opinion.

Where are all the funny candidates? Why ban em from posting?

We're sorry to conclude that all funny candidates have killed themselves with a shot to the back of the head against their will.

[DrAmazing343]

LET BLACKLIST RUN FOR HEADMIN

[Constellado]

We need more admins advocating for player designed events.

Places for players to workshop some EPIC lore moments.

[TheBibleMelts]

We need more admins advocating for player designed events.

Places for players to workshop some EPIC lore moments.

i think you've seen a few of my events. i'm pretty big on laying out tools and toys and letting the players choose their own adventure while i play along with it. i think your newest video on the youtubes was an example of that.

[Timberpoes]

Something something campaign propaganda here.

Admins don't have to get professional, they just have to be polite, neutral and non-confrontational. Too many players have learned to detest admin interactions because those admins have no personalities in tickets.

In any ticket a player just wants to be listened to. Too many crappy ahelps lack conversation, it's just the admin speaking at the player instead of with them.

That's it. Players wouldn't be scared of ahelps as much if admins didn't play into those tropes. We're not customer service agents, we're conflict mediators. Totally different skillet and our customer service agent admins tend to burn out over time and become very jaded and cynical. Our conflict mediator admins tend to thrive.

[TheRex9001]

We need more admins advocating for player designed events.

Places for players to workshop some EPIC lore moments.

Well you are in luck, its part of my platform! I wanna create a space on the discord for player run events

[Timberpoes]

It's a bit of a meme that comes up every election.

The difficulty with player created events is that it needs someone to run them.

Few admins are willing or, honestly, sometimes even capable of running them. Fewer players fall into this category still.

That is the great barrier. Players can already suggest events that nobody runs, making it easier to suggest events nobody will run is putting the cart before the horse.

You need to come up with a plan for how event suggestions regularly get thrown at the game servers first, then back it with ideas to get event suggestions forwarded into the pipeline.

I have no clue how to make this happen in a sustainable long term way, but if someone did have a clue and I liked it then I'm all ears.

[TheRex9001]

I think game servers already handle events well, conduct and good sense prevent running an event every darn round. I’d follow my own discord suggestion instead of the forums because discord is just faster and more convinient for organising stuff like that. The ultimate plan is to use the ”event runner” role (in game) a tad more and allow these events to function with admin oversight but letting the player ”run” it so to speak. Hopefully this might also get us more contributors and event mappers.

[kieth4]

Event runner is cool but time consuming because you need to find people who even want the role (very small pool) then supervise them. Not that many people want to be an event runner or supervise

[conrad]

Event runner is cool but time consuming because you need to find people who even want the role (very small pool) then supervise them. Not that many people want to be an event runner or supervise

How would mentors be different?

[DrAmazing343]

Event runner is cool but time consuming because you need to find people who even want the role (very small pool) then supervise them. Not that many people want to be an event runner or supervise

I fucking love events I really WISH there were open event runner applications or some shit like that. Unless I'm missing something, of course, and then I'd feel stupid >:3c

[WineAllWine]

We should answer all ahelps in character

Can we all agree to do this over April Fool's please?

[kieth4]

Event runner is cool but time consuming because you need to find people who even want the role (very small pool) then supervise them. Not that many people want to be an event runner or supervise

I fucking love events I really WISH there were open event runner applications or some shit like that. Unless I'm missing something, of course, and then I'd feel stupid >:3c

When I gave someone event runner they asked me then I asked the other headmins at the time and was told ye bro if you want to supervise them and are sure they won't grief go ahead (or smth along these lines) I think you just need to ask someone (possibly only admin trainer +)

[kieth4]

Event runner is cool but time consuming because you need to find people who even want the role (very small pool) then supervise them. Not that many people want to be an event runner or supervise

How would mentors be different?

Well it's not entirely the same is it?

In terms of responsibilities and access to tools mentors would only be answering questions. I do not think it's comparable to event runner.

Plenty of ppl would be willing to be mentors as it's low responsibility and people want to share their knowledge.

Whereas event runner is someone being given tools and supervised. They can see normal tickets and shit etc.

[conrad]

Event runner is cool but time consuming because you need to find people who even want the role (very small pool) then supervise them. Not that many people want to be an event runner or supervise

How would mentors be different?

Well it's not entirely the same is it?

In terms of responsibilities and access to tools mentors would only be answering questions. I do not think it's comparable to event runner.

Plenty of ppl would be willing to be mentors as it's low responsibility and people want to share their knowledge.

Whereas event runner is someone being given tools and supervised. They can see normal tickets and shit etc.

You'd still need to train mentors, and make sure they're not being bad quality, and if they break rules (like say rule 8) during a mentor help to have someone spend time judging whether they should remain a mentor.

I think it's naive to think you just slap perms and put a button that don't exist yet and would require a code change and call it a day. Am I missing something?

[WineAllWine]

Event runner is cool but time consuming because you need to find people who even want the role (very small pool) then supervise them. Not that many people want to be an event runner or supervise

I fucking love events I really WISH there were open event runner applications or some shit like that. Unless I'm missing something, of course, and then I'd feel stupid >:3c

When I gave someone event runner they asked me then I asked the other headmins at the time and was told ye bro if you want to supervise them and are sure they won't grief go ahead (or smth along these lines) I think you just need to ask someone (possibly only admin trainer +)

Kieth is right, you can ask any AdminTrainer+ for this role. In fact, if you have eyes on becoming a real admin some day this is great experience.

I think this option should be better publicised somewhere...

[kieth4]

Event runner is cool but time consuming because you need to find people who even want the role (very small pool) then supervise them. Not that many people want to be an event runner or supervise

How would mentors be different?

Well it's not entirely the same is it?

In terms of responsibilities and access to tools mentors would only be answering questions. I do not think it's comparable to event runner.

Plenty of ppl would be willing to be mentors as it's low responsibility and people want to share their knowledge.

Whereas event runner is someone being given tools and supervised. They can see normal tickets and shit etc.

You'd still need to train mentors, and make sure they're not being bad quality, and if they break rules (like say rule 8) during a mentor help to have someone spend time judging whether they should remain a mentor.

I think it's naive to think you just slap perms and put a button that don't exist yet and would require a code change and call it a day. Am I missing something?

I think the training would be absolutely minimal, I'm not entirely sure I've interacted with a trained mentor before. The ones I've spoken too have just been pretty casual conversations about the game. Mentors aren't admins and most people are able to answer questions pretty well!

If the mentors are being weird they can be quite easily removed as well as there's no real power behind the role. If they're using the system to do rule 8 shit they'd be server banned too I'm sure.

The real issue would be finding a place for them in the current admin hierarchy and who oversees them etc. This is where the biggest piece of work will be.

[TheRex9001]

Now what if there was a space to easily request and get admin trainers to possibly look at your ideas...

[kieth4]

Now what if there was a space to easily request and get admin trainers to possibly look at your ideas...

This isn't a bad idea honestly but there's a very real chance a lot of players simply cannot be trusted with the role due to notes/history/whatever.

Wonder if we could make a role with less access to shit.

[TheRex9001]

Now what if there was a space to easily request and get admin trainers to possibly look at your ideas...

This isn't a bad idea honestly but there's a very real chance a lot of players simply cannot be trusted with the role due to notes/history/whatever.

Wonder if we could make a role with less access to shit.

We probably can config something up.

[kieth4]

Now what if there was a space to easily request and get admin trainers to possibly look at your ideas...

This isn't a bad idea honestly but there's a very real chance a lot of players simply cannot be trusted with the role due to notes/history/whatever.

Wonder if we could make a role with less access to shit.

We probably can config something up.

Skyrat had a thing on the discord where players could propose events and admins would sometimes pick them up- a discord forum thing could work for letting people provide ideas maybe.

[Dax Dupont]

We better get more candidates.
I'm not sure what I think of anyone outside of timberpoes.

Keith4 wasn't a great headmin and most of his ideas are "meh" at best. I'm divided over TBM while they have done good things I don't feel like they're the right way for me, Walter's a great dude but his thread and points feel bare but it's early days, rex's has a few busywork points when it comes to bureaucracy.

No one is perfect! But we can strive to be. Could you be more specific about the busywork parts?

The adminpm guideline and headmins always posting "we're looking into this" makes it feels like we're some kind of call center. I fear it might lead to more soulless handling of tickets.

I'm not great at describing it

The problem is that we also get feedback saying that we're not professional enough in how we handle things, so like...

Counterpoint, we're volunteers for a game server and not a corporate environment where we have to massage clients over the phone.

I'll be polite to people but I'm not interested into having to recap and get drawn into the whole discussion we just had for the last 5 minutes. Also when you're the only admin and you're already handling a bunch of tickets at the same time sometimes "handled" is gonna come out because you're already balls deep in several logs for another ticket.
My priority in that case is the correct handling of ahelps vs wrapping my answers in roses.

[Constellado]

Wait event runner is an actual role?

That exists?

Where are the app forms. I'm in.

[TheRex9001]

Wait event runner is an actual role?

That exists?

Where are the app forms. I'm in.

We don’t have an apps form, what I’m proposing is that. Vote Rex!

[WineAllWine]

Wait event runner is an actual role?

That exists?

Where are the app forms. I'm in.

It exists on a per-round basis. You can ask an AdminTrainer (or GameMaster / Headmin) for the permissions, if you've got an idea

[Constellado]

Wait event runner is an actual role?

That exists?

Where are the app forms. I'm in.

It exists on a per-round basis. You can ask an AdminTrainer (or GameMaster / Headmin) for the permissions, if you've got an idea

Ooooohh

I see!

Yeah there needs to be easier ways to get events from players done.

I want to make sprites of bluespace entities and give them to admins to bully the station with.

[conrad]

AYO THE GOOPTER IS INNNNNN

Although with that thread I think oranges is gonna nuke him from the face of the earth.

[Jonathan Gupta]

AYO THE GOOPTER IS INNNNNN

Although with that thread I think oranges is gonna nuke him from the face of the earth.

ive ran on less

[kinnebian]

Now what if there was a space to easily request and get admin trainers to possibly look at your ideas...

This isn't a bad idea honestly but there's a very real chance a lot of players simply cannot be trusted with the role due to notes/history/whatever.

Wonder if we could make a role with less access to shit.

We probably can config something up.

Skyrat had a thing on the discord where players could propose events and admins would sometimes pick them up- a discord forum thing could work for letting people provide ideas maybe.

this is already in my platform

[TheRex9001]

Now what if there was a space to easily request and get admin trainers to possibly look at your ideas...

This isn't a bad idea honestly but there's a very real chance a lot of players simply cannot be trusted with the role due to notes/history/whatever.

Wonder if we could make a role with less access to shit.

We probably can config something up.

Skyrat had a thing on the discord where players could propose events and admins would sometimes pick them up- a discord forum thing could work for letting people provide ideas maybe.

Mf have you read my campaign, this is what I've been pushing for in it.

[kinnebian]

rex i know for a fact we have the same thing in our platforms

[kieth4]

Now what if there was a space to easily request and get admin trainers to possibly look at your ideas...

This isn't a bad idea honestly but there's a very real chance a lot of players simply cannot be trusted with the role due to notes/history/whatever.

Wonder if we could make a role with less access to shit.

We probably can config something up.

Skyrat had a thing on the discord where players could propose events and admins would sometimes pick them up- a discord forum thing could work for letting people provide ideas maybe.

Mf have you read my campaign, this is what I've been pushing for in it.

Sorry for the lack of clarity, I mean if u get perms changed a bit otherwise I think it's somewhat mid

[Higgin]

Skyrat had a thing on the discord where players could propose events and admins would sometimes pick them up- a discord forum thing could work for letting people provide ideas maybe.

a discord channel or Ideas threads for events on the forums would work well for this, but it's worth keeping in mind: Skyrat relies much more heavily on those sorts of events for there to be anything going on in the game, and part of the reason they have the discord area for it was an internal requirement that admins get preapproval for events.

it's a great idea to get people thinking about cool things to do with the game outside of the normal loops or mechanical* antags, but just to be clear: what skyrat was doing was not just collaboration and idea-gathering but also limiting what staff and players could do spontaneously in the round through the approval process (introduced spring of last year, idk if it's been rolled back since or on nova now, I don't keep up with them)

it's a very stifling situation to have been in and one many people were unhappy with when introduced - so just be clear if it's only idea development you're interested in through this

edit for extra context:

► Show Spoiler

part of the reason SR did this internal requirement was that not all events go well or stay within their initial scope - which on here is totally fine, because we make no promises of you as a player being able to totally segregate yourself from anything else in the round to typefuck or what have you, and we value spontaneity/player freedom. skyrat's approach to action and chaos is much more one where it must be opted into within the round, even being an antag target, whereas here it's much more on you to opt out through your in-game actions (with no guarantee of success)

[Striders13]

meow

we already have a subforum for proposing events
viewforum.php?f=63

the issue with player proposed events is it usually requires knowledge of admin tools to know if your event is realistically doable, I got a lot of suggestions for events that were simply impossible to do with the current tools.

[britgrenadier1]

Events don’t need to be the focus of a round to be great. One of my favorite admin events was on Sybil where an admin made it so that anyone who said the word “Bingus” would have the antique teleported to their hand. Simple, silly, awesome. I had a gunfight with a traitor that round where we were both yelling bingus to wrestle control of the laser. Do more stuff like this and less stuff that tries to be the focus of the round with centcom announcements and faxes.

[dendydoom]

small scale interactions (which i hesitate to call events) are part of my normal adminning. most players like it when after they interact with the world, it interacts back in a personalized way. it makes them feel like their presence in the round is felt by someone else, and it makes their story more personal.

if i'm going to do a big event then in all likelihood i've already planned the material for it beforehand. i like to take study breaks where i do creative writing and a lot of this is narrative stuff for rounds. i'm active on the manuelcord too where lore threads are a common thing, so i am constantly absorbing the backstory of your OC to slip bits and pieces of it into my interactions with you.

like with most things it's a balancing act. sometimes you just want a normal round of ss13, and when that starts getting stale, it's nice to have an event to shake things up. if you have a red alert invasion with lore dumps and cutscenes and john nanotrasen turning up in power armour to save the day every single round, then it stops being special.

[dendydoom]

wrt player events, a lot of my conversations with people around this has been that when offered, they would rather someone else run the event so they can participate in it.

i actually had no idea the event runner role was still a thing, since i've never actually seen it utilized. it's an interesting idea, but yes, it does need more oversight than just throwing someone the power to control reality itself and letting them go wild with it. admins know that big events usually generate more ahelps, and player event runners will not be able to handle those.

there are times where i've asked "does anyone want x, y or z next round?" or just going into dchat like "anyone wanna play an event role? give me some ideas" and we'll work together to improv something.

[WineAllWine]

small scale interactions (which i hesitate to call events) are part of my normal adminning. most players like it when after they interact with the world, it interacts back in a personalized way. it makes them feel like their presence in the round is felt by someone else, and it makes their story more personal.

Thats such a great way of putting it! Being "The world" is one of my favourite parts of adminning

[DrAmazing343]

I think 110% one of the most interesting parts of an event round, or even just a round with active admins, is seeing the game feel go from concrete I can do X and Y to a more D&D/TTRPG maybe if I try a custom action here, I’ll get something new to happen?

That sort of thing always, always, always gets me more invested in the round- when suddenly, something that makes sense but isn’t in code can be done and still have a sensible effect? I love that.

[Cheshify]

I like running those horror events, those always end up going well.

[dendydoom]

now that TTS is back i can go back to my old shit of making vending machines talk to people. one time i had it say some shit like "We've been stealing John's blood while he's asleep and putting it in the soda! New and improved recipe!" and they lost their minds. i caught them trying to code dive to find it in discord later.

if you're reading this john (wasn't their name but i don't remember it) it was me all along. I WAS THE VENDING MACHINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TheRex9001]

Remember that the forum is fully unlocked tomorrow! If you have any questions about my platform feel free to slide em in there when the forum is unlocked!

[kinnebian]

Remember that the forum is fully unlocked tomorrow! If you have any questions about my platform feel free to slide em in there when the forum is unlocked!