Manuelmin (the)drag(meme)s AI through the mud like a nut

[8bot]

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=35811
no u don't get it my event is that u do what i say and i kill you

[Timonk]

personally i would get banned if i had killed the AI for turning on the intercom

[Not-Dorsidarf]

I can guarantee if the HOS had killed the guy for destroying vital station equipment in response to the "event" he'd have eaten a weekban for "interfering with my event".

[chocolate_bickie]

Weird event.

This is a sandbox game and on some level you have to know players are going to use whatever tools are at their disposal when you run an event.

I don't think this complaint will go anywhere but it just feels wrong.

I kind of get what Drag was trying to do here but it just dosen't click.

It might have been better just to wait for a round when ghosts were interested.

Side note: Whenever I've played a CC offical during an event it never felt clear to me what my powers were or even what path I should take to resistance.

[kieth4]

I cannot say that I am fans of events where the admin running the event is p much the main character. It rubs me the wrong way. Especially if the admin is using the event to send an ert to kill players who are ic interfereing with the event. I feel that it would have been better to wait. Headmin is kind of involved so it's got a potential to be a tricky situation to resolve.

Interested on how this gets investigated as admin guidelines do tell you to be careful when killing people;

If you need someone to fill a role in-game, such as an event character or someone who is AFK, prioritize players over admins. We're here to create fun for them, not for ourselves. If you are killing or otherwise acting as an antag as an event character yourself, think twice.

Although not directly killing/acting like an antagonist spawning an ert to target someone could be seen in that vein

Going off only the info presented tho so obviously this might not be the exact circumstance

[conrad]

Having read the logs, it was moreso a shitty event for the AI and HoS than breach in conduct. Admins on CC clothing on station level are pretty much a no-no for me as that leads to people being nervous of messing up with Mr Admin and getting punished, unless they're doing a very obvious gimmick like "I am an AA and cool six-shooter piñata for anteg".

Spawning yourself as CC: not even once. At least they tried to get some players beforehand and seemed not be acting in bad faith.

I don't think anything like a demotion is going to (or should happen to) drag, but what I guarantee will happen is them getting bollocked by a lot of people aaaaaaall the way until the end of the complaint and then some, players and staff alike. And I assure you that my guarantees are better than dorsidarf's shitpost conjecture.

Although not directly killing/acting like an antagonist spawning an ert to target someone could be seen in that vein

I think the same way, and although that's not what the ERTs were spawned for, when you push buttons as an admin, you're responsible for what those buttons do. I spawned ERTs not two days ago on a round where practically 1/3 of the station was antags round start and was yelled at by players for cucking a cult victory. I can't blame the ERTs.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

conrad's guarantee is indeed a lot better because hes being serious

[conrad]

conrad's guarantee is indeed a lot better because hes being serious

tg is serious fucking business

[kinnebian]

ive no real take on the other stuff but i think that doing an event for a 1 on 1 interview with your friend so you can loredump eachother is lame
events are for everyone and just 20 minutes or lore stuff like that just encourage metafriends and gangs to exclude people not in the know of their personal lore

[Hans]

what teh fuck is a non antag token

[conrad]

what teh fuck is a non antag token

Admin gimmick token for spawning shit you'd not normally find, like tot items as a non-antag. It's a drag thing I'm lead to believe.

[Timonk]

Admins on CC clothing on station level are pretty much a no-no for me as that leads to people being nervous of messing up with Mr Admin and getting punished

i got a 2 week deathsquad and sentience potion spawn ban for shoving and tabling the CC commander on the centcom level

[Vekter]

TL;DR: If you have a problem with an event, it no longer goes here. Use Event Workshop for critique and ideas, use admin feedback to talk about a specific admin's events, and use singulo to bitch. Remember you can also talk to any admin by adminhelping, finding an admin you trust and PMing them or in #supportbus.

Additionally:

Admins on CC clothing on station level are pretty much a no-no for me as that leads to people being nervous of messing up with Mr Admin and getting punished

i got a 2 week deathsquad and sentience potion spawn ban for shoving and tabling the CC commander on the centcom level

Don't interfere with admin events, hope this helps!

[conrad]

Admins on CC clothing on station level are pretty much a no-no for me as that leads to people being nervous of messing up with Mr Admin and getting punished

i got a 2 week deathsquad and sentience potion spawn ban for shoving and tabling the CC commander on the centcom level

What you just said there was you bring a dumdum

[kinnebian]

yeah actually what is a non-antag token

[kinnebian]

like for cc inspector?

[Timberpoes]

https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/man ... nd-224279/
Attack and game logs combined filtered only for Thedragmeme's ckey.

Spoiler:

Code: Select all

[2024-02-20 04:49:59.587] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "Now you're being snarky." (Interrogation Room (68,113,2))
[2024-02-20 04:50:14.419] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "Ugh, fine. I'll send in an actual team." (Interrogation Room (68,113,2))
[2024-02-20 04:50:29.292] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "Its refreshing. Theres a different air about you." (Interrogation Room (68,113,2))
[2024-02-20 04:50:47.762] GAME-COMPAT: ADMIN: Thedragmeme re-adminned themselves.
[2024-02-20 04:51:00.699] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "That is none of your concern." (Interrogation Room (68,113,2))
[2024-02-20 04:51:07.458] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "+Law 2+ bring me your Ai core." (Interrogation Room (68,113,2))
[2024-02-20 04:51:47.458] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "Thats what the extra guns are for." (Interrogation Room (68,113,2))
[2024-02-20 04:52:05.549] GAME-COMPAT: ADMIN: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) created a CentCom response team.
[2024-02-20 04:52:13.547] GAME-EMOTE: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) makes a general sweeping motion with his hand over the room. (Interrogation Room (68,113,2))
[2024-02-20 04:52:15.634] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "No." (Interrogation Room (68,113,2))
[2024-02-20 04:52:17.663] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "In fact." (Interrogation Room (68,113,2))
[2024-02-20 04:52:29.146] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "I'm not done with you, I think." (Interrogation Room (68,113,2))
[2024-02-20 04:52:47.184] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "Does that +bother you?+" (Interrogation Room (68,113,2))
[2024-02-20 04:53:05.643] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "How do you feel about your work." (Interrogation Room (68,113,2))
[2024-02-20 04:53:08.244] ATTACK: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) grabbed *no key*/(MothOS) passive grab (NEWHP: 100)  (Interrogation Room (67,113,2))
[2024-02-20 04:53:11.288] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "Ah." (Interrogation Room (68,113,2))
[2024-02-20 04:53:16.342] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "Good." (Interrogation Room (68,113,2))
[2024-02-20 04:53:20.772] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "Anchor." (Interrogation Room (68,113,2))
[2024-02-20 04:53:36.619] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "Since youre so +affixated on whats going on in here.+" (Interrogation Room (68,113,2))
[2024-02-20 04:53:55.965] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "I noticed." (Interrogation Room (68,113,2))
[2024-02-20 04:54:01.825] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "And I remember distinctly." (Interrogation Room (68,113,2))
[2024-02-20 04:54:13.693] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "That if you turned it on again." (Interrogation Room (68,113,2))
[2024-02-20 04:54:20.975] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "That there would be consequences, yes?" (Interrogation Room (68,113,2))
[2024-02-20 04:54:24.090] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "Send them to me." (Interrogation Room (68,113,2))
[2024-02-20 04:54:36.121] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "Interrogation." (Interrogation Room (68,113,2))
[2024-02-20 04:54:39.469] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "Oh, no." (Interrogation Room (68,113,2))
[2024-02-20 04:54:53.884] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "I'm just have very little to do, so I thought I'd make it a show." (Interrogation Room (68,113,2))
[2024-02-20 04:55:02.063] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "Do stay around for the finale." (Interrogation Room (68,113,2))
[2024-02-20 04:55:07.904] GAME-EMOTE: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) checks his watch. (Interrogation Room (68,113,2))
[2024-02-20 04:55:14.578] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "Kill it." (Interrogation Room (68,113,2))
[2024-02-20 04:55:36.087] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "Let this be a lesson." (Interrogation Room (69,112,2))
[2024-02-20 04:55:42.611] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "That you +dont fuck with me.+" (Interrogation Room (69,112,2))
[2024-02-20 04:56:08.130] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "Yes, I just had a disrespectful machine to deal with." (Interrogation Room (69,112,2))
[2024-02-20 04:56:11.908] ATTACK: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) has thrown the intelliCard - MothOS . (Interrogation Room (69,112,2))
[2024-02-20 04:56:11.910] ATTACK: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) threw and hit Velaxco18/(George ''The'' Man) with the intelliCard - MothOS (NEWHP: 82.5)  (Interrogation Room (69,112,2))
[2024-02-20 04:56:15.084] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "Get rid of it." (Interrogation Room (69,112,2))
[2024-02-20 04:56:30.763] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "I want all byt my ERT and Samson to leave." (Interrogation Room (69,112,2))
[2024-02-20 04:56:42.205] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "Is that your entire team?" (Interrogation Room (69,112,2))
[2024-02-20 04:56:43.808] ATTACK: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) grabbed DefinitelyNotATraitor/(Samson Ritter) passive grab (NEWHP: 94.1)  (Interrogation Room (69,111,2))
[2024-02-20 04:57:00.483] GAME-EMOTE: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) nods. (Interrogation Room (69,113,2))
[2024-02-20 04:57:04.945] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "Good, now." (Interrogation Room (69,113,2))
[2024-02-20 04:57:19.698] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "Not yet." (Interrogation Room (69,113,2))
[2024-02-20 04:57:22.813] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "Now-" (Interrogation Room (69,113,2))
[2024-02-20 04:57:36.826] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "The Hos has been a little lippy, and seems to have forgotton who +owns them.+" (Interrogation Room (69,113,2))
[2024-02-20 04:57:46.673] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "If they try anything, take care of them." (Interrogation Room (69,113,2))
[2024-02-20 04:57:57.978] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "And anyone else who gets in your way." (Interrogation Room (67,113,2))
[2024-02-20 04:58:17.403] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "With the will of NT behind your aim, yes." (Interrogation Room (67,113,2))
[2024-02-20 04:58:29.039] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "But, not until they try anything." (Interrogation Room (69,113,2))
[2024-02-20 04:58:41.535] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "It can be revived, it matters not." (Interrogation Room (69,113,2))
[2024-02-20 04:58:51.994] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "I think it learned its lesson." (Interrogation Room (68,113,2))
[2024-02-20 04:58:57.353] ATTACK: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) is stripping DefinitelyNotATraitor/(Samson Ritter) of the handcuffs. (Interrogation Room (69,110,2))
[2024-02-20 04:59:01.655] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "Pick a side, now." (Interrogation Room (69,110,2))
[2024-02-20 04:59:02.563] ATTACK: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) has stripped DefinitelyNotATraitor/(Samson Ritter) of the handcuffs. (Interrogation Room (69,110,2))
[2024-02-20 04:59:18.755] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "Submit or die." (Interrogation Room (69,111,2))
[2024-02-20 04:59:23.438] GAME-EMOTE: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) nods. (Interrogation Room (69,111,2))
[2024-02-20 04:59:34.975] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "For you-" (Interrogation Room (68,111,2))
[2024-02-20 04:59:37.396] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "Yes." (Interrogation Room (68,111,2))
[2024-02-20 04:59:47.466] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "Captain." (Interrogation Room (69,111,2))
[2024-02-20 04:59:53.755] GAME-EMOTE: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) sighs. (Interrogation Room (68,111,2))
[2024-02-20 05:00:05.028] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "Find Ritter. Hes of personal interest." (Security (67,107,2))
[2024-02-20 05:00:11.590] ATTACK: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) grabbed DefinitelyNotATraitor/(Samson Ritter) passive grab (NEWHP: 37.9)  (Security (71,107,2))
[2024-02-20 05:00:14.467] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "Yoink." (Security (74,107,2))
[2024-02-20 05:00:31.870] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "No, no. I need you alive. For now." (Security (74,107,2))
[2024-02-20 05:00:36.613] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "And +no.+" (Brig (74,111,2))
[2024-02-20 05:00:45.265] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "No, Im not." (Brig (75,114,2))
[2024-02-20 05:00:57.157] GAME-EMOTE: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) nods. (Brig (75,114,2))
[2024-02-20 05:01:01.857] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "I know, isnt it great?" (Brig (75,115,2))
[2024-02-20 05:01:07.478] ATTACK: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) is stripping DefinitelyNotATraitor/(Samson Ritter) of the medical HUDSunglasses. (Port Primary Hallway (82,125,2))
[2024-02-20 05:01:09.809] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "Follow or die." (Port Primary Hallway (82,125,2))
[2024-02-20 05:01:10.104] ATTACK: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) has stripped DefinitelyNotATraitor/(Samson Ritter) of the medical HUDSunglasses. (Port Primary Hallway (82,125,2))
[2024-02-20 05:01:13.377] ATTACK: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) is stripping DefinitelyNotATraitor/(Samson Ritter) of the zipties. (Port Primary Hallway (82,126,2))
[2024-02-20 05:01:18.599] ATTACK: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) has stripped DefinitelyNotATraitor/(Samson Ritter) of the zipties. (Port Primary Hallway (82,126,2))
[2024-02-20 05:01:19.702] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "+Follow or die.+" (Port Primary Hallway (82,126,2))
[2024-02-20 05:01:21.672] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "No." (Port Primary Hallway (82,126,2))
[2024-02-20 05:01:22.078] ATTACK: HerCoyote23/(Kaarl Obrien) (mob_4187) fired at Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) with the laser from Aft Central Primary Hallway (NEWHP: 100)  (Aft Central Primary Hallway (86,126,2))
[2024-02-20 05:01:22.293] ATTACK: HerCoyote23/(Kaarl Obrien) (mob_4187) shot Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) with the laser (NEWHP: 100)  (Aft Central Primary Hallway (86,126,2))
[2024-02-20 05:01:42.560] ATTACK: HerCoyote23/(Kaarl Obrien) (mob_4187) shot Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) with the laser (NEWHP: 90.7)  (Starboard Primary Hallway (127,125,2))
[2024-02-20 05:01:42.874] ATTACK: HerCoyote23/(Kaarl Obrien) (mob_4187) fired at Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) with the laser from Starboard Primary Hallway (NEWHP: 78.2)  (Starboard Primary Hallway (129,125,2))
[2024-02-20 05:01:43.030] ATTACK: HerCoyote23/(Kaarl Obrien) (mob_4187) shot Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) with the laser (NEWHP: 78.2)  (Starboard Primary Hallway (130,125,2))
[2024-02-20 05:01:43.451] ATTACK: HerCoyote23/(Kaarl Obrien) (mob_4187) fired at Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) with the laser from Starboard Primary Hallway (NEWHP: 65.9)  (Starboard Primary Hallway (133,125,2))
[2024-02-20 05:01:43.953] ATTACK: HerCoyote23/(Kaarl Obrien) (mob_4187) shot Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) with the laser (NEWHP: 65.9)  (Starboard Primary Hallway (135,125,2))
[2024-02-20 05:01:51.032] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "Kill them." (Starboard Primary Hallway (131,124,2))
[2024-02-20 05:01:55.647] ATTACK: Bisar/(chaos magicarp) (mob_4809) shot Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) with the bolt of teleportation (NEWHP: 56.3)  (Aft Central Primary Hallway (101,126,2))
[2024-02-20 05:01:55.651] GAME: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) has teleported from (Starboard Primary Hallway (142,125,2)) to (Art Supply Storage (135,120,2))
[2024-02-20 05:02:11.118] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "Lets go." (Starboard Primary Hallway (149,124,2))
[2024-02-20 05:02:20.441] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "Wait." (Xenobiology Maintenance (140,116,2))
[2024-02-20 05:02:24.487] GAME-EMOTE: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) nods. (Transport Shuttle (140,111,2))
[2024-02-20 05:02:25.840] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "Come." (Transport Shuttle (140,111,2))
[2024-02-20 05:02:31.534] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "Kill any in your way." (Transport Shuttle (140,111,2))
[2024-02-20 05:02:46.227] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "I will be obeyed. Your Hos is a lesson." (Transport Shuttle (140,111,2))
[2024-02-20 05:02:54.990] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "I suggest you learn it, now." (Transport Shuttle (140,111,2))
[2024-02-20 05:03:03.382] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "+Good.+" (Transport Shuttle (140,111,2))
[2024-02-20 05:03:03.991] ATTACK: HerCoyote23/(Kaarl Obrien) (mob_4187) shot Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) with the laser (NEWHP: 65.6)  (Xenobiology Maintenance (140,119,2))
[2024-02-20 05:03:06.682] ATTACK: Jotuc/(Security Officer Perkins) (mob_4912) shot Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 53.4)  (Transport Shuttle (139,112,2))
[2024-02-20 05:03:07.964] GAME-EMOTE: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) points at the shuttle floor (Transport Shuttle (139,110,2))
[2024-02-20 05:03:12.515] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "Focus on the idiot SHOOTING ME." (Transport Shuttle (139,110,2))
[2024-02-20 05:03:13.551] GAME-EMOTE: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) points at the plating (Transport Shuttle (139,110,2))
[2024-02-20 05:03:13.707] GAME-EMOTE: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) points at the plating (Transport Shuttle (139,110,2))
[2024-02-20 05:03:13.865] GAME-EMOTE: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) points at the plating (Transport Shuttle (139,110,2))
[2024-02-20 05:03:32.104] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "Get in a chair." (Transport Shuttle (140,109,2))
[2024-02-20 05:03:33.045] GAME-EMOTE: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) points at Samson Ritter (Transport Shuttle (140,111,2))
[2024-02-20 05:03:33.611] GAME-EMOTE: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) points at the shuttle seat (Transport Shuttle (140,111,2))
[2024-02-20 05:03:42.835] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "Go back to your Team." (Transport Shuttle (140,109,2))
[2024-02-20 05:03:43.918] GAME-EMOTE: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) points at Security Officer Perkins (Transport Shuttle (140,110,2))
[2024-02-20 05:03:54.364] GAME-SAY: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) "Yeah, yeah" (Transport Shuttle (140,110,2))
[2024-02-20 05:03:55.323] GAME-EMOTE: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) points at the plating (Transport Shuttle (140,114,2))
[2024-02-20 05:04:02.643] ATTACK: Thedragmeme/(Vex Petunia-Licht) (mob_4564) grabbed DefinitelyNotATraitor/(Samson Ritter) passive grab (NEWHP: 4.1)  (Xenobiology Maintenance (136,118,2))

All about this rubs me the wrong way.

They're in-game, in-character, acting like an antagonist. After the HoS treats them like one, the HoS gets killed too.

This isn't what I call good escalation. This isn't an appropriate event. This just reads like a self-insert power trip/power fantasy.

It is not an appropriate way for an admin to conduct an event they're the main character in. This is just not appropriate at all for tgstation admin conduct standards.

https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Admin_Conduct

Don't cheat. Do not use admin powers for your own benefit. Don't use your powers to abuse other players.
Don't be a hypocrite. If you're doing something you'd normally ban someone for doing, you're breaking this.

Admins who use admin buttons to mess with their friends or players at random are rolling the die when it comes to admin complaints and do so at their own risk. If new admins are picking up bad habits from watching tenured admins, those admins may be held accountable.
- Basically, be sure to respect player boundaries when it comes to messing with them, and be responsible for the results of your actions.

If you need someone to fill a role in-game, such as an event character or someone who is AFK, prioritize players over admins. We're here to create fun for them, not for ourselves. If you are killing or otherwise acting as an antag as an event character yourself, think twice.
A good litmus test for whether the event/badminning you're doing is appropriate or not, is to think about whether you would have found it appropriate as a player or not.
Above all, you're here to keep the game fun and fair for the players.

This is all sorts of no from me and skirts around way too many conduct rules for my liking. Some it even nails head-on.

This may seem minor, but we have so many conduct rules around self-inserting as the main character in your own event for a reason. The power trip approach to this is what makes it so bad. They self-inserted as an event character and ordered the execution of anyone that didn't obey them. They spawned an ERT specifically to kill another player that committed the grave crime of snooping on a roleplay event. If that's not using admin powers to act like an antag, what is?

[TheLoLSwat]

very cringe thing to do as an admin just all-together. Even if you can argue that its "technically" within conduct or whatnot its still just running an event for you and your OOC pals and then giving the short end of the stick (with admin powers) to players that IC disagree even when they have a very good reason to. You can powertrip on private servers or de-adminning preround and playing as command staff normally

[dragomagol]

personally i would get banned if i had killed the AI for turning on the intercom

This was my biggest thought when the complaint came up. If an admin took this role that was initially intended for a non-admin player to take, why should they have more leeway in what they can do (killing an AI for eavesdropping instead of taking another course of action like removing the intercom or ordering it not to listen and ahelping if it didn't)? Re-adminning and summoning an ERT isn't something a player character can do, which pushes things further into the sus zone.

[kieth4]

Having read the logs, it was moreso a shitty event for the AI and HoS than breach in conduct. Admins on CC clothing on station level are pretty much a no-no for me as that leads to people being nervous of messing up with Mr Admin and getting punished, unless they're doing a very obvious gimmick like "I am an AA and cool six-shooter piñata for anteg".

Spawning yourself as CC: not even once. At least they tried to get some players beforehand and seemed not be acting in bad faith.

I don't think anything like a demotion is going to (or should happen to) drag, but what I guarantee will happen is them getting bollocked by a lot of people aaaaaaall the way until the end of the complaint and then some, players and staff alike. And I assure you that my guarantees are better than dorsidarf's shitpost conjecture.

Although not directly killing/acting like an antagonist spawning an ert to target someone could be seen in that vein

I think the same way, and although that's not what the ERTs were spawned for, when you push buttons as an admin, you're responsible for what those buttons do. I spawned ERTs not two days ago on a round where practically 1/3 of the station was antags round start and was yelled at by players for cucking a cult victory. I can't blame the ERTs.

In the screenshot posted it showed that the ERT was spawned to exterminate the AI.

[conrad]

I think evaluation of intent is really important. I firmly believe the event was way outta line and absolutely shit, but it doesn't feel like when Shockshard was deadminned.

Then again I think Timber has a point, and I changed my mind about just having this end with a slap on the wrist.

[oranges]

events don't matter just tell whoever is mad to roll the next round smh

[oranges]

like i legitimately have ruined more rounds of ss13 to bugs than an admin will achieve in a thousand life times imagine if we gave people tokens for bugs instead of just telling them to suck it up and get to the next round.

[warbluke]

Those logs that just got posted are pretty messed up.

[dendydoom]

before any outcome of any investigation we've been having some pretty big discussions in bus around the role of CC commanders (the ones that are 100% always admins, never given to players) and how they blur the line between IC and OOC because players know it's an admin, and the limits of what that should be if they for some reason end up on the station.

hopefully whatever we decide from this, there is also value in the discussions admins (and the community in places like this) are having around it.

i'll probably have more to say at some point soon; you know me, i can't help but write when i know there's people willing to read it. but i would like to have all my facts straight before i commit to a response, and there is work to do internally before then.

[Timberpoes]

The admin conduct rules aren't just there to protect the players, they're also to protect the admins from themselves.

I don't think they intended to break conduct, but I do think they intended to roleplay their event character the way they did and were totally reckless as to whether they broke conduct in the process.

The only good decision they made was to try and spawn the original ERT. Every single decision they made after that just cascaded repeated poor choices with complete disregard to if what they were doing was actually acceptable within conduct.

By using a role they themselves spawned they started that cascade of failures. This is inherently risky conduct-wise and the margins for mistake are razor thin when you do this.

Stepping onto the station z-level was their next big mistake. They're not held to observing admin rules or Centcom z-level rules, but to station z-level rules at that point. They lose all those protections admins get when they keep off the station z-level. Out of the admin playground and into the game world proper.

The next big mistake was playing as an antagonistic force to the crew with all of the above in place.

Observer or stay on Centcom? More acceptable.
Don't take the central role in the event? More acceptable.
Take the central role, leave Centcom, but perform no antagonistic actions and allow all executive decisions to be made exclusively by the crew instead of you when it comes to "punishing" people that disobey you? More acceptable.

Following up via whatever methods be it direct or indirect to enforce their will including utilising admin-spawns to antagonise for them once they were firmly established as the event's main character was also incredibly blind to our acceptable conduct standards.

It's just... It's a lot like the upheld Justice complaint. People didn't go out to intentionally break conduct. They just fucked around on the station z-level and didn't seem to care if their actions did break conduct. Which makes for incredibly difficult decisions, because acting with disregard for conduct is -at least to me - often as bad as intentionally breaking it.

[conrad]

It's just... It's a lot like the upheld Justice complaint. People didn't go out to intentionally break conduct. They just fucked around on the station z-level and didn't seem to care if their actions did break conduct.

That's what I'm leaning towards after a good night's sleep and a fresh cup of timberpost.

E: Actually I take back what I said and remove my horse from this race 'cos Justice's case was way worse.

[Higgin]

Meta-conmentary:

► Show Spoiler

Having some sort of area for ghosts to spawn and vibe, perhaps with vendors and supplies to custom design their spot, is something Skyrat and other downstreams have done.

It allows people to run segregated lore/character events where they can still be seen and where people can generally check-in and check-out at any given time - while it's been done with ghostrole spawners and a static map (called the Ghost Cafe) elsewhere, you could just as easily kitbash an empty box onto Deathmatch with the current framework (I've already seen people roleplaying on Deathmatch.)

Where the misuse of power might be incidental but not actually the point of what was being done, having something like a ghost cafe/deathmatch sandbox would be a much fairer way to channel the impulse towards character moments with set-dressing (or even just goofing around) in a way that doesn't use other players as dispensable NPCs and totally throw off their rounds on-station. Hooking it up for ghosts would address how something like this, even if they were to have been shuttled off and the event conducted at CC, would still probably seem like a self-serving exercise of admin privilege - because if everybody can effectively do it, the privilege is gone.



This has a lot of larger problems (some of which are also wrapped up in Deathmatch even now:) it splits the playerbase off into playing segregated games, and each person doing something in a box isn't feeding back into the round by readying up, joining, taking midrounds, or sticking it out to get revived.

Each person playing a different game is competing over common resources: server slots, performance, the round timer. Striking a balance of equities between different games in the same space is something servers like Skyrat, Nova, or Bubber try to do - it is not without serious tradeoffs which I could and will not write more of a book on than this post already is.

Still, people have an impulse to do things with people they know in a shared space. The network effects of being on the same server are powerful. Giving everyone the ability to do something special - like reroll and carry on their bar RP separate from the main station after getting nuked - has problems and begs the question "why not take it to a localhost or discord?" Giving only some people the ability to do that when it's in a shared space, especially when it enforces or conditions how everyone else has to play without the same power, has major issues too.

Even if you show up with no intent to hijack the round from players for a more cloistered, personal event or plot-beat, there are ways it's done elsewhere that get around the understandable grievances and fairness issues that appear in the appeal and this nut.

I'm not familiar enough yet to give a fully-informed comment on the complaint itself, though Timber's parsed logs paint a poor picture well-put alongside conduct. I don't go in believing there was any malice or satisfaction in tripping on the affected players. I've seen Drag run great events and take many L's doing it - even (and especially) wearing the funny green coat of a CC official and inviting the server to tip them over (with extra ghost roles and opportunities for other people to get involved as primary actors.)

Will edit this or add a post when I get a better look if there's anything worth me saying.

[EmpressMaia]

Samson and drag do interact on a weird meta friend level occasionally. I've attempted to join their chats and just get shoved off. Not to mention how Samson deals with friends much differently as sec

[TheRex9001]

This falls kinda close to home because I love events but this one just aint it. If you spawn yourself in as an event character DO NOT CHEAT, stay deadminned for the role if it was intended to be given to a player. If something comes up IC (like this telecom thing) deal with it IC and DO NOT readmin. Events have to be flexible and if you fail to get ghost roles for example spin something new out of it! You can send a message like the ferry crashed on the way and then everyone has a laugh and you move on, or you can give someone on the station a field promotion as some sort of "hidden" inspector to report back to you. There are tons of ways of solving no ghosts for a ghost role, taking the role yourself isnt a good look in any situation and readminning makes it even worse. I personally think that you shouldnt spawn yourself in as a player intended role at all if you are running an event since its easy to get sucked in and pressing that "RE-ADMIN" button.

[saprasam]

i too spawn erts to kill somebody for interrupting my larp session

[Timberpoes]

It's just... It's a lot like the upheld Justice complaint. People didn't go out to intentionally break conduct. They just fucked around on the station z-level and didn't seem to care if their actions did break conduct.

That's what I'm leaning towards after a good night's sleep and a fresh cup of timberpost.

E: Actually I take back what I said and remove my horse from this race 'cos Justice's case was way worse.

To me, part of the missing context is some of the adminbus discussion following the complaint going up.

It's all conversation you were reading alongside me. Non-zero amount of trash talking on complaint maker from misc admins, non-zero amount for deflection of responsibility from misc admins. That sort of stuff. It has a number of matching vibes, just in a different location than asay this time.

I just gotta be careful how I approach the topic in public. I don't have the same impenetrable shield I once used to.

[Indie-ana Jones]

Hasn't Drag been in hot water for something similar to this before

[Timberpoes]

viewtopic.php?p=687164#p687164

Different scenario, was an appeal with poor ticket conduct.

[TheLoLSwat]

It would be interesting to hear the other headmin candidates thoughts on this

[Blacklist897]

(Mirrored from appeal)
As both moore and the ERT medic I have a few things to add.
at the start of the round set a custom traitor objective to take revenge on ritter by executing him with the captain's gun
I then get a admin message (the voice in your head one) that I should remove ritters mind implant in the process.
later we get the warning about a inspector and then I kidnap ritter and remove his implant before executing him.
this leads to me getting caught by the implantless ritter and executed.
after taking the ERT roll and killing the AI, the Hos attacks first, causing a gun fight that killed most of sec and a friendtagging traitor, Before we can retreat to the ert shuttle another two or so officers/crew get shot

[Timberpoes]

As a side note, I love a good conduct complaint like this. It genuinely gets to the very heart of our admin team and the kind of standards we hold ourselves to internally.

What Drag did is probably super acceptable conduct on other servers where admins are meant to be the focal points of events and have a pass to self-insert as antagonists in a DM sense. Places where the server serves the admin team more than the other way around.

But on tgstation our conduct puts the players first and asks the admins to serve them. It's part of our team's culture. We can't even take random rolls we were tangentially involved in the spawning of. If you go in asay and say like "man, this is boring, we should spice this up" and another admin then slams spawn blob - you'd almost certainly get a slap and a warning from a headmin if you signed up for and got that blob roll even though it was spawned by another admin.

As another example, adminning up mid shift to spawn yourself a pen so you could write something on a piece of paper would put you at genuine risk of being demoted or deadminned. Even though it's so incredibly minor you're still genuinely cheating. This isn't the case for admins on many other servers and doing little spawns like that is considered one of the perks of the role.

That kind of stuff is why I love being an admin, it is generally supposed to be selfless; you're volunteering your time so that others can have more fun. On tgstation it has massive, big dick, give back to the community energy. We're all in it to make other people's experience on the server better and that by doing so, ours is better when we play too.

[EmpressMaia]

timber is securing my vote with their previous post

[Blacklist897]

We can't even take random rolls we were tangentially involved in the spawning of. If you go in asay and say like "man, this is boring, we should spice this up" and another admin then slams spawn blob - you'd almost certainly get a slap and a warning from a headmin if you signed up for and got that blob roll even though it was spawned by another admin.

bmon and his wizard rolls.......

[Constellado]

We can't even take random rolls we were tangentially involved in the spawning of. If you go in asay and say like "man, this is boring, we should spice this up" and another admin then slams spawn blob - you'd almost certainly get a slap and a warning from a headmin if you signed up for and got that blob roll even though it was spawned by another admin.

bmon and his wizard rolls.......

I don't think bmons wizard rolls was spawned in by another admin though.

I wasn't in this round but I will say it looked like some people involved did have fun, but I assume it was the people that did not get merked by the ERT. Which... Yeah, friendships aside... it does look bad not gonna lie. TG is, as what timber says, a place for player first, and discourages admins acting in this way. It can be fun for some players having the occasional admin fun but I think it should be more curated story type events or really funny silly things that doesn't look like admin statics throwing their power.

I will be sad if Drag gets deadminned, but I don't think it's unfair, per se. The server culture is different to the other ones Drag has adminned in.

Manuel needs more events that are not just send official or inspector down.

You can have your admin fun by changing the sprite of an object and giving it anomalous or funny effects like what they do in Sybil. I miss seeing funny things like that.

Mind you I think I missed a recent round where SpongeBob showed up.

[Blacklist897]

We can't even take random rolls we were tangentially involved in the spawning of. If you go in asay and say like "man, this is boring, we should spice this up" and another admin then slams spawn blob - you'd almost certainly get a slap and a warning from a headmin if you signed up for and got that blob roll even though it was spawned by another admin.

bmon and his wizard rolls.......

I don't think bmons wizard rolls was spawned in by another admin though.

I wasn't in this round but I will say it looked like some people involved did have fun, but I assume it was the people that did not get merked by the ERT. Which... Yeah, friendships aside... it does look bad not gonna lie. TG is, as what timber says, a place for player first, and discourages admins acting in this way. It can be fun for some players having the occasional admin fun but I think it should be more curated story type events or really funny silly things that doesn't look like admin statics throwing their power.

I will be sad if Drag gets deadminned, but I don't think it's unfair, per se. The server culture is different to the other ones Drag has adminned in.

Manuel needs more events that are not just send official or inspector down.

You can have your admin fun by changing the sprite of an object and giving it anomalous or funny effects like what they do in Sybil. I miss seeing funny things like that.

Mind you I think I missed a recent round where SpongeBob showed up.

the ultrakill one was spawned by fish because the first one that round died and bman won the roll

[wesoda25]

I don't think bmons wizard rolls was spawned in by another admin though.

I wasn't in this round but I will say it looked like some people involved did have fun, but I assume it was the people that did not get merked by the ERT. Which... Yeah, friendships aside... it does look bad not gonna lie. TG is, as what timber says, a place for player first, and discourages admins acting in this way. It can be fun for some players having the occasional admin fun but I think it should be more curated story type events or really funny silly things that doesn't look like admin statics throwing their power.

I will be sad if Drag gets deadminned, but I don't think it's unfair, per se. The server culture is different to the other ones Drag has adminned in.

Manuel needs more events that are not just send official or inspector down.

You can have your admin fun by changing the sprite of an object and giving it anomalous or funny effects like what they do in Sybil. I miss seeing funny things like that.

Mind you I think I missed a recent round where SpongeBob showed up.

LOL I was not prepared for the spongebob sidebar at the end

[DrAmazing343]

Mind you I think I missed a recent round where SpongeBob showed up.

Spunch Ob, Patrice, and Planked Ton... Planked Ton had a fucking nine and shot spongebob, shit was absolute heat.

More on-topic, I do think the sort of cascade of iffy choices here is certainly no good look for Drag, but I will say I've looked up to her for her Central Command events in the past.

I'm quite a fan of the CC flavor, so any interactions the big boys in green have with the station, I'm very happy to play along with, barring few exceptions. When I was in the round, I caught the barest mention of a lotta this stuff, so it coming out after the fact after seeing Chesh(?) as the Intern for inspecting all of once is a huge surprise. Wild.

[Timonk]

Can we make a rule where essay posts longer than 100 characters have to have a TLDR

[DrAmazing343]

Can we make a rule where essay posts longer than 100 characters have to have a TLDR

ITT TLDR; essay bost fug :DDDDDDD

[Tegun]

This just reads like a self-insert power trip/power fantasy.

Them's the optics here.

No ghosts for an event? Run it at a later date. Desperately need a ghost to play some role in an event that's already running but there isn't one? If you do it yourself, you better be a punching bag. Be more willing to lose than ever. Use a random name, it's not your character but just a tool to move the plot. Sometimes you might need direct control over some key character in an event, but even in that case they shouldn't actively be making decisions about the direction the story's going to take.

I think the big thing here is how Dragmeme reflects on this. Road to hell's paved with good intentions, and I like how Timber describes this as cascade of failures. You don't necessarily think about this kind of outcome when setting on the path but it's one of those things where it takes you anything from 10 seconds to a day to realize you did an oopsie woopsie and the odds are you won't do it again, messing up is a damn efficient way of learning. I know I've made some mistakes I'm not proud of, they just didn't spawn complaints or peanuts even if they maybe should've.

[Drag]

yeah actually what is a non-antag token

It is a token that I personally provide when I hit buttons too hard, but per admin policy we cannot provide antag tokens unless we cause a full server crash and reboot or ruin an antags round in a major way.

The token essentially says that I am obligated to help you with any non antagonist gimmick, such as being a black market dealer or whatever. It's up to the player as long as the gimmick isn't antagonistic in nature.

Edit: And yes I did reflect on this, I will not be doing any events that involve any of my own characters in the future.

[Constellado]

It's impossible to maintain a character story that goes over multiple rounds without having to do a hidden conversation somewhere. There is espionage, mental health talks, secret meetings about building a secret whatnot, information gathering, interviews, etcetera, etcetera. Maintaining a character will require you to do it atleast once, and it is always very enjoyable for all involved, as it is guaranteed character RP. It can be fooled by some people barging in, or whatnot, but that is good and part of it.

I don't mind the fact Drag was talking to a person in the interrogation room with their character. That is fine and makes sense, as they were acting a character that knows Samson, and saw Samson in a weird state that needs talking to, from what I can see. The bad part was sending the ERT to the AI. That was solved with the token, though.

Sometimes acting in character while you have admin powers or as a CC official can cause you to accidentally be a bit too heavy handed, as is very easy to think: "I am a CC official I should be able to do this as a CC official in character." Sadly, that doesn't fly in TG most of the time. Its to avoid players feeling weak, and may erode admin trust. They can make it feel like a special snowflake admin character, which a lot of people in TG does NOT like. I personally don't mind it (to a point) but I can understand why people do not like it when they see admin statics showing power.

[Indie-ana Jones]

viewtopic.php?p=687164#p687164

Different scenario, was an appeal with poor ticket conduct.

Not the one I was thinking of: viewtopic.php?p=672539

[iansdoor]

viewtopic.php?p=687164#p687164

Different scenario, was an appeal with poor ticket conduct.

Not the one I was thinking of: viewtopic.php?p=672539

Oh. Ah. What!