Policy action on the state of RP in the game

[Bawhoppennn]

Bottom post of the previous page:

I don't like writing these super long-winded walls of text posts, so I'll try and keep this somewhat short.

The state of the game has largely geared towards it being primarily treated as a TDM combat sim, and while that's nothing new, and isn't the case 100% of the time, I think it's time we actually made some policy to satisfy those who want a little bit of RP.

I'm not saying we should have Bay-tier RP where you try to act like a real person in that situation, but I think we should have a slightly higher standard than we do now. In my ideal view, the perfect RP-level is one where you can still be wacky and memey, and still have conflict in the game, but not act with the currently common silent drone stun-cuff-strip mentality, where you feel like you must prove your skills.

I know a lot of people have fun playing it like that, and that's fine, but I think a large amount of players want a little more than that from the game, so that's why I'd propose we enforce a little bit of standards on Basil, while leaving Sybil as it always was for people who enjoy that. That way, we'd not alienate anyone, and everyone could (in theory) be happy.

When I talked to PKP about this briefly, he said that with our current shortage of admins, this would be impractical to enforce, however I think that if we just had explicitly stated text saying what each server was oriented towards, with the rules that follow, most people would abide by the standards, and those who didn't wouldn't make much extra work than admins already have to do.

People have been talking about this kind of thing for years, and I hope that with a legitimate discussion, we could maybe finally get somewhere with it.

[bandit]

Higher standards of roleplay can never be done until you remove those who don't want it and fill it with people who do

You can change the culture, though. One way to start is RPing yourself, which I kind of feel like a lot of people posting in this thread don't actually do. If you don't feel you can RP you can get pretty damn close by this server's standards by just doing your job in the way that involves interacting face to face with the most people. If you're an assistant, actually go around to departments asking if you can assist. If you're the bartender, serve drinks and start conversations. The thing about "a culture of griff attracts fellow griffons" is that the opposite is also true.

[DemonFiren]

It takes ages to build something like that, though, and not very long to destroy it.

This is because roleplay requires effort that playing the griff lottery doesn't, and if said effort is in vain you tend to feel really fucking dumb.

[bandit]

That's unfortunately the nature of anything involving roleplay

[captain sawrge]

Higher standards of roleplay can never be done until you remove those who don't want it and fill it with people who do

You can change the culture, though. One way to start is RPing yourself, which I kind of feel like a lot of people posting in this thread don't actually do. If you don't feel you can RP you can get pretty damn close by this server's standards by just doing your job in the way that involves interacting face to face with the most people. If you're an assistant, actually go around to departments asking if you can assist. If you're the bartender, serve drinks and start conversations. The thing about "a culture of griff attracts fellow griffons" is that the opposite is also true.

Using those tools to do things is too time consuming vs the payoff (which is that you'll likely be ignored or shot by other players rather than have them play along). Trying to guard a maid cafe as the Warden and the Captain wanted me arrested (and then later jobbanned), and none of it panned out anyway because it was rev. Try to start a cult around flashlight eyes in a dark station with the command staff and the CE decides he's going to ignore the rest of the heads and replace all the lights (and then adminhelps when he is inevitably stopped).

Why spend 40 minutes building a room to finish it as the shuttle docks or have it all vaporized in an instant by someone at random? It's very very difficult to come up with a gimmick that will step on absolutely no toes at all and still be entertaining.

tl;dr: It's pointless to bother because anyone else a roleplay-oriented experience has already left the server and gone elsewhere or given up trying in face of the numerous obstructions to such a playstyle.

It's not fun to lose every round because you played suboptimally in the (often-vain) hope that someone might wander along and play along with you (and generally suffer the same fate.)

Like I keep saying, the only surefire way to change the current server culture is to have the headmins write up policies to drive the server in one direction, hire admins to enforce these policies, and fire any admin that starts contradicting this direction.

[Bawhoppennn]

So if I'm hearing several different admins expressing their discontent with the state of the community mentality, why do they all act like their hands are tied on dealing with it?

The way I understand it, people are going to be mad regardless of what you do, so maybe it's time to take the dive and start taking a harder stance on enforcing rule 1 to promote that culture shift.

[cedarbridge]

So if I'm hearing several different admins expressing their discontent with the state of the community mentality, why do they all act like their hands are tied on dealing with it?

Headmins set policy.
Admins enforce policy.

If you want higher RP policy, make that a voting issue in the next headmin election. As it exists now, and as been repeated a few times now, there are no standards for acceptable minimum RP in policy to enforce. Hell, the rules in general are pretty broad and lax. A Rule 1 ban is difficult to apply in many cases because "he powergamed and didn't go along with my gimmick" is hard to justify when players currently expect differently.

[Bawhoppennn]

Well what is the stance of our current headmins? I saw Ausops post here, but they didn't seem to really input on the topic itself.

[onleavedontatme]

Us agreeing on there being a problem doesnt mean we agree on the solution.

Trying to promote a behavior is way harder than banning one.

[onleavedontatme]

If you don't feel you can RP you can get pretty damn close by this server's standards by just doing your job in the way that involves interacting face to face with the most people. If you're an assistant, actually go around to departments asking if you can assist. If you're the bartender, serve drinks and start conversations.

Change needs to start at the top. Telling players to go mix drinks to improve the server while admins acid bomb everyone without provocation is frankly laughable.

Also doing your job in a docile manner =/= interesting "roleplay." People need to be allowed to go off the rails if they're making a good story.

[imblyings]

The best part of this thread has got to be seeing newer admins not fall for the '''roleplay'''''' trap after years and years of seeing people have the oddest ideas about what it is.

In the objectively correct definition of roleplay, we could implement higher roleplay standards right now but it isn't a direction I want this server to go in. /tg/ is many things but it has never and will never be about acting out your character in a way that adheres to a backstory or context. Within the very loose context that we have, it's important to remember that RP still happens. The rare times my ping let me play, I ended up killing myself with a cursed russian revolver and acted as the bartender's shade, doing his errands, before doing an event to end a long extended round, in which people played along quite well. Just today after the servers got back up, there were some shenanigans involving disco machines which have so far been novel enough to bring the station together. All of this is roleplay and ''''''''roleplay'''''''''''''''''. Players acting within the loose wacky space station context we have and players acknowledging each other's desire to play along with something and joining in.

There are some things I'd rather not happen and I won't name now but I've also seen a chemist valid a captain because the captain had sleeping carp from a trade they did with a traitor. I regret not banning them for it but I was tired blah blah etc. However, it's things like these which I'd like admins to consider looking out for and pay more attention in noticing. Not to ban or even warn them but maybe discuss and calibrate within ourselves when behaviour like this becomes a problem.

I want to post more but I'm tired the general gist is the only possible solutions seem really hard to pull off. It's slowly influencing the playerbase to act in a different way and come to this game wanting to do things differently or putting in new content like planetstation and using it as a bridge to give players a common goal to explore and work towards, experiencing ''''rp''''''''''''' in the process.

[bandit]

If you want higher RP policy, make that a voting issue in the next headmin election. As it exists now, and as been repeated a few times now, there are no standards for acceptable minimum RP in policy to enforce. Hell, the rules in general are pretty broad and lax. A Rule 1 ban is difficult to apply in many cases because "he powergamed and didn't go along with my gimmick" is hard to justify when players currently expect differently.

It's also a candidate issue. Virtually every candidate was in favor of a "low rules" enforcement mentality (I asked), which leads directly to this.

Change needs to start at the top. Telling players to go mix drinks to improve the server while admins acid bomb everyone without provocation is frankly laughable.

Also doing your job in a docile manner =/= interesting "roleplay." People need to be allowed to go off the rails if they're making a good story.

well I mean

a) maybe then the admins shouldn't acid bomb everyone? makes you think
b) the second part is why I said "by this server's standards." but, like, a lot of tabletop storygames, literally pure RP, allow for roles that are basically "I kind of want to just mix drinks and talk to people." a well-designed game puts them in the action anyway, but that just brings us back to the same issue
c) but even then, the "good story" is the job of the antags, in theory. very few antags approach antag with "how do I make a more interesting story," but... that also brings us back to the same issue

[bandit]

doublepost: I also don't necessarily think change starts at the top, we can all think of a handful of players who pretty much drag the quality of the round down around them, and vice versa (Scaramouche comes to mind)

[FantasticFwoosh]

Its funny because most of the people who should have been removed in that process are now admins and directly in charge of hitting gratuitous buttons when they are bored on lowpop. Such as today on sybil spawning a Xeno Queen maid.

Edit: refueled on caffeine & corrected typos.

[imblyings]

a change has been made

I expect not that much difference but we'll see.

[Nilons]

Higher standards of roleplay can never be done until you remove those who don't want it and fill it with people who do

You can change the culture, though. One way to start is RPing yourself, which I kind of feel like a lot of people posting in this thread don't actually do. If you don't feel you can RP you can get pretty damn close by this server's standards by just doing your job in the way that involves interacting face to face with the most people. If you're an assistant, actually go around to departments asking if you can assist. If you're the bartender, serve drinks and start conversations. The thing about "a culture of griff attracts fellow griffons" is that the opposite is also true.

any time I see someone rping I instantly want in on that shit. I've never killed someone who's rping for gameplay purposes. I.E a traitor whos rping something fun I will be more inclined to mess around with and have fun with than execute and enjoy my extended. Bandit is right here

[FantasticFwoosh]

RP also swings the other way with purely friendly wizards. We need harsher enforcement and clearer lines on what people should be doing and i think someone else said here to keep it to professional sportsmanship.

[WarbossLincoln]

I think what's really being asked for is more sportsmanship, and RP as more active interaction and not Bay's style of sitting around talking.

When the chef supplies banana cream pies to the clown so he can build a disposal pipe cannon to fire them down a hallway(after he disables gravity so they keep going)
The captain giving science a specific goal, be it making a bunch of stuff from RD, or making an army of adamantine golems to serve the station.
When was the last time we had a good rage cage?
Organize a baseball game. Get a willing victim, or a body from genetics. The pitcher throws the body at the batter who tries to hit the body and knock it back before it knocks him down.


Stuff that encourages player interaction that involves actually DOING something, and not just talking, which is what servers like Bay label as RP.

Sportsmanship would be toning down the power gaming

Everyone automatically assumes any assistant who wants a job change is an antag doing it only to get at a victim or to get gear. That alone makes the supposed purpose of the job pointless.
A sec officer who lets an antag go who has stealth gear that isn't obvious IC, where he only knows it's traitor gear OOC.
People who make a mental note of anyone they see near dorms at round start so they can assume they're traitors later and dunk them.
If there are doctors, let them do medical shit. Stop racing in and mashing sleeper buttons when there are doctors 2 tiles away trying to do it themselves.


Other shit is just dumb.
Screaming the game mode over radio instead of saying what's actually happening. "It's REVS LOL" instead of "Some guy just attacked the HOP"
Screaming the game mode randomly before you know what's going on just to be annoying.

Conversion antags really need to be reigned in to slow down some of their shittery. I remember back when each rev head could only convert 3 people each. It encouraged revs to not just grey tide and get shot but to actually assassinate the leaders.

Nearly all of this requires an attitude shift in the server population though, which can't be administrated into being. I guess it can be encouraged, but you can't really make hard, enforceable rules on most of this stuff without turning into Bay.

[cedarbridge]

Honestly, I wish people would just treat the jobs as what they're meant to be. In a roleplaying sense there's a mental disconnect between what is expected and what is given.

Medbay
Expectation: to treat patients and be called to the scene when somebody gets maimed so I can go heal them.
Reality: assistants and random mimes come charging into medbay, pass every MD/Chemist/Geneticist/CMO in their way and mash every button on the sleeper or put their buddy into cryo for no good reason and attack said medbay staff if you try to stop them.

Science
Expectation: to make useful things for the station, build new machines, upgrade existing ones, enhance the sec armory, etc
Reality: miners get some toys if they ever show up, RD prints guns and antag hunts for the rest of the shift before toxins maxcaps the station again

Engineering
Expectation: Set up a reliable powersource, improve and tweak said power production, make basic repairs when required and advanced repairs when required, spend the rest of the time building improvements onto the station and generally doing the construction schtick
Reality: Maybe put in the miniumum effort to set up an engine so I don't get lynched and then greytide around in my free hardsuit and gloves

Assistant
Expectation: I'm a guy without a job on a station of employees. I guess I should either get a job or find some way to make myself useful before I overstay my unemployed welcome
Reality: LOL GRAYTIIIIDE, memes, theft and grief, occasionally steps up from stealing things to stealing access and job positions instead of just getting an assignment and a job.

and on and on. There's just wide gap between what you'd expect a character as an employee in a given job would intend to do in a given shift and what the gearcheck culture has produced.

[FantasticFwoosh]

We really need a in depth departmental discussion thread going over each department's expected RP and policy clauses for actionable RP (ei - Hippocratic oath for new doctors applying chems they dont know the effects of at risk to patients) in a little bit more detail but definitely along the lines of what cedar suggests in the above post, because unless like on CM we literally tell you what to do and how to ideally do it you can steer outside the rules but never outside the set boundaries. Some people just get on track and do the job but many people look to really push the limits in a negative & selfish way.

- Think of all the botanists that spam endless amounts of slipppery bluespace tomatoes or throw them on the shuttle while non-antag. The only IC solution is to literally depower & destroy all of the botanists hard work in a raid which will probably be met with hostile resistance. Nobody asked them to grow them or even litter the station with them, perhaps the only people to enjoy this are the watching bystanders but when there are 10 stacks on every tile blocking a entire corridor that requires picking up and moving every single one its a pain.

What assistants do is a thread in itself since holodeck/recreation & other activities like space exploration (which includes stealing space suits) aren't engaging enough.

[cedarbridge]

We really need a in depth departmental discussion thread going over each department's expected RP and policy clauses for actionable RP (ei - Hippocratic oath for new doctors applying chems they dont know the effects of at risk to patients) in a little bit more detail but definitely along the lines of what cedar suggests in the above post, because unless like on CM we literally tell you what to do and how to ideally do it you can steer outside the rules but never outside the set boundaries. Some people just get on track and do the job but many people look to really push the limits in a negative & selfish way.

Policing competence and obligating specific levels of "you must be at least this good at your job or get out" outside of heads of staff positions is a bad move and I'd never support it here.

[FantasticFwoosh]

You're misinterpreting what im saying practically. Just RP guidelines of things you should be doing, there is a line where RP & skill based practicality cross especially when it comes to mixing together ingredients which result in healthcare or buffs. Obviously making the best kind of foods & drink buffwise is also creative & helpful to the crew but you are not obliged to powergame & help others powergame like this if you don't want to.

If you can't doctor then you wouldn't be able to RP the functions of medbay that are all player interaction reliant, a doctor who messes up procedures or LARP's over a dying patient pretending to doctor for the sake of RP or incompetence is a bad doctor, and really if you have RP stutternurses who don't actually contribute anything, you are better off hiring a assistant as comedic RP relief or a medical clown/mime.

- Wear the coloured scrubs and clothes if you're doing surgery etc, follow & cite hippocratic oath as per "sportsmanship" in the case that you made a mistake on the clause that you weren't even aware you were harming them, if you can use alternative methods of diagnosis other than just scanning them in a non-emergency such as taking a heart reading with a stethoscope then fine.

[lumipharon]

I often lament that the most exciting SS13 stories are the ones that get you banned but I didn't want to include another IC issue rant because I know everyone is sick of hearing that from me and it usually devolves into how much random violence we should or shouldnt tolerate from assistants.

My most memorable event on SS13 was me either being framed as a mime or talking as a mime and getting grieffed by Phoebe Lotsu and Derek Westbrook. That was one of those godawful rounds but I laugh about it now because in hindsight it was kinda hilarious.

Wait... Did you get accused of being a ling, after you talked when chasing an engineer or something, then get cremated? Because if so that was me soon after I first started, and thought mimes literally couldn't talk. Honk.

Also more on topic, what 'more RP' means (at least to me), really is more sportsmanship then actual RP. Being a power gamer and playing to win is not only dull and unfun as shit, but it has an extremely negative effect to the rest of the playerbase. It's simply a case of if you're playing in a more casual style (not loading up on gear 'just in case', not being a validhunting/turbomurdering shitler), you are much more likely to be shat on by those that do. This gives you three options:
A) Accept the fact that power gamers will regularly shit on you
B) Stop playing (altogether or go to another server/whatever)
C) 'git gud' ie: Out shit the shitters

Of course the first 2 options suck, but outplaying people who playing to win is a shitty arms race that just makes it worse for anyone else who is still trying to avoid being a power gamer, which makes it a shitty spiral.

And yeah, I haven't played much recently, but the amount of admin memeshit was pretty disappointing.

While making any change will always fuck people off/ruin it for some people or whatever, doing nothing just slowly does the same, and makes it harder to try fix down the road. But if we do make a change in policy direction, even if we have a short term drop off on players, we'd be better off in the long term anyway.

[Qbopper]

I think at this point unless the current headmin team is willing to take some steps you're going to have to wait for the next election and hope someone can do as sawrge says

this change won't happen without some concentrated effort

mind I also think atlanta is right to some extent - I don't necessarily think we need people to be super serious roleplayers or anything but less casual ooc in ic and some nicer player behaviour would go a long way

[PKPenguin321]

Time to replace the servers with one button that randomly sends you to one of two servers. Death to the Sybil/Bagil wars.

Do this instead of this idea ("make one an RP server") that I already told baw wasn't feasible
I am not kidding, server wars must die

[onleavedontatme]

Honestly, I wish people would just treat the jobs as what they're meant to be. In a roleplaying sense there's a mental disconnect between what is expected and what is given.

Medbay
Expectation: to treat patients and be called to the scene when somebody gets maimed so I can go heal them.
Reality: assistants and random mimes come charging into medbay, pass every MD/Chemist/Geneticist/CMO in their way and mash every button on the sleeper or put their buddy into cryo for no good reason and attack said medbay staff if you try to stop them.

Science
Expectation: to make useful things for the station, build new machines, upgrade existing ones, enhance the sec armory, etc
Reality: miners get some toys if they ever show up, RD prints guns and antag hunts for the rest of the shift before toxins maxcaps the station again

Engineering
Expectation: Set up a reliable powersource, improve and tweak said power production, make basic repairs when required and advanced repairs when required, spend the rest of the time building improvements onto the station and generally doing the construction schtick
Reality: Maybe put in the miniumum effort to set up an engine so I don't get lynched and then minor IC crime around in my free hardsuit and gloves

Assistant
Expectation: I'm a guy without a job on a station of employees. I guess I should either get a job or find some way to make myself useful before I overstay my unemployed welcome
Reality: LOL GRAYTIIIIDE, memes, theft and grief, occasionally steps up from stealing things to stealing access and job positions instead of just getting an assignment and a job.

and on and on. There's just wide gap between what you'd expect a character as an employee in a given job would intend to do in a given shift and what the gearcheck culture has produced.

We're not meant to be playing real people on a real space station though, we are playing dysfunctional spessmen on SS13.

But we can still be like this

https://i.warosu.org/data/tg/img/0321/4 ... 077923.jpg

Without it being a silent deathmatch where people only stop to shout the round type at each other. I think most people in this thread mean sportsmanship and the willi gness to play along with zany stories and drama, not that they desire an accurate workplace sim.

Or to rephrase: Roleplay =/= realism

[onleavedontatme]

Time to replace the servers with one button that randomly sends you to one of two servers. Death to the Sybil/Bagil wars.

Do this instead of this idea ("make one an RP server") that I already told baw wasn't feasible
I am not kidding, server wars must die

That'd be even worse because I couldnt play with my friends or other people I recognize to know whether they'll be willing to humour whatever dumb adventure I'm up or that they instead would silently kill me at the first sign of valids.

[imblyings]

Part of the changes required will be a removal of how antags can currently do anything they want bar things like bug exploits or rape.

Kind of like how Kor has pointed out, cooperation and sportsmanship do depend on some level of implicit trust. In the case of gimmicks or playing along this normally means trusting them not to kill you or dick you over and this is supplied by the players involved knowing each other and not wanting to damage that relationship. No such thing exists for players who don't know each other. I'd guess players who do engage in some form of cooperation within this context either do so because they are naive and believe in the goodness of the players they meet or are experienced enough to feel out whether a player will cooperate or not.

More to the point, this change is aimed at making it more likely for a player to invest their time into cooperation by lessening the risk they perceive. The change also has to be quite harsh, I don't see a way of restricting what antags can do in a feasible way without going to extremes as it's too easy to come up with excuses for actions otherwise.

This change would affect some player interactions but not all. It'll affect combat antag/non-antag interactions and maybe bring about more non-combat a/na interactions, which given how loosely everyone has been using the word 'roleplay', I can only assume at least some posters want. Does it bring about more sportsmanship? Maybe. Along with restrictions on validhunting (the other side of reducing risk for cooperation but for antags) and a context (baseline acceptability for character actions), it could create an environment more stable and less risky for a player to want to trust and invest their time in cooperating or playing along with each other.

All of these would be massive changes that would bring us quite close to other servers and we'd lose the carefree? nature and freedom other servers don't have imo. It's also worth pointing out that this is the nth time I've seen this thread and the same complaints and /tg/ has continued to exist despite it all.

[bandit]

All of these would be massive changes that would bring us quite close to other servers and we'd lose the carefree? nature and freedom other servers don't have imo. It's also worth pointing out that this is the nth time I've seen this thread and the same complaints and /tg/ has continued to exist despite it all.

But do other servers really not have it? There's Hippie now, before that there was Nox, etc.

[cedarbridge]

We're not meant to be playing real people on a real space station though, we are playing dysfunctional spessmen on SS13.

But we can still be like this

https://i.warosu.org/data/tg/img/0321/4 ... 077923.jpg

Without it being a silent deathmatch where people only stop to shout the round type at each other. I think most people in this thread mean sportsmanship and the willi gness to play along with zany stories and drama, not that they desire an accurate workplace sim.

Or to rephrase: Roleplay =/= realism

But see, I don't see this as an issue of "realism." The thread so far has complained about the powergamey, arms race nature that rounds have been taking. I've given what I see in various departments that outlines those while giving examples of the sort of play that would remedy that. I'm not really thrilled with the "dysfunctional spessmen" distinction when we explicitly write out the "my character is so crazy xd" thing in the rules as a no-go. You can have danger, excitement and mayhem on the station as the station falls apart around you without falling into the current realities outlined in my examples.

To simplify, doing your job and letting others do their jobs and working from that as a starting point does not strip the round of flavor, it just makes player interactions a bit more mandatory over the current antisocial status quo.

[imblyings]

All of these would be massive changes that would bring us quite close to other servers and we'd lose the carefree? nature and freedom other servers don't have imo. It's also worth pointing out that this is the nth time I've seen this thread and the same complaints and /tg/ has continued to exist despite it all.

But do other servers really not have it? There's Hippie now, before that there was Nox, etc.

without insulting a server I don't play, over time /tg/ has had a special sort of relaxed care-free attitude to it without devolving into grief everywhere that I do appreciate.

[kevinz000]

All of these would be massive changes that would bring us quite close to other servers and we'd lose the carefree? nature and freedom other servers don't have imo. It's also worth pointing out that this is the nth time I've seen this thread and the same complaints and /tg/ has continued to exist despite it all.

But do other servers really not have it? There's Hippie now, before that there was Nox, etc.

am i a shitter if i respond to that with "there's a difference with carefree and fun and a free-for-all"?

[danno]

Sure, but when do you finally cross into that territory? The line is fine.

[Qbopper]

Time to replace the servers with one button that randomly sends you to one of two servers. Death to the Sybil/Bagil wars.

Do this instead of this idea ("make one an RP server") that I already told baw wasn't feasible
I am not kidding, server wars must die

Why even have the distinction of a no hub server and a hub server then

I'm not a fan of this specifically because I like having a lower pop server vs the higher pop one but I know I'm in the minority there

[tacolizard]

he said that with our current shortage of admins, this would be impractical to enforce

mabye it would be easier if there was an actual formal way to become an admin :^)


Also admins barely even play at the times they're needed most. I live in California and from like 9 pm onward even Basil can be lacking any admins.


tl;dr

stop spamming me with IC issue bwoinks when i ahelp to ask to trialmin.

[Qbopper]

he said that with our current shortage of admins, this would be impractical to enforce

mabye it would be easier if there was an actual formal way to become an admin :^)


Also admins barely even play at the times they're needed most. I live in California and from like 9 pm onward even Basil can be lacking any admins.


tl;dr

stop spamming me with IC issue bwoinks when i ahelp to ask to trialmin.

there's quite a few admins that aren't in favor of the idea of giving admin to people who ask because it sets a horribad precedent and if you ahelp "givve me admin" you're going to get your ahelp rejected because a. it's a retarded thing to ahelp and b. most of the admins aren't able to do anything about it

If you really want to be an admin step 1 is to shut up about wanting to be an admin

[Bawhoppennn]

there's quite a few admins that aren't in favor of the idea of giving admin to people who ask because it sets a horribad precedent and if you ahelp "givve me admin" you're going to get your ahelp rejected because a. it's a retarded thing to ahelp and b. most of the admins aren't able to do anything about it
If you really want to be an admin step 1 is to shut up about wanting to be an admin

It's a horrible catch-22 cause if you ask for admin, you're begging, but if you don't, nobody thinks you're interested.

[cedarbridge]

there's quite a few admins that aren't in favor of the idea of giving admin to people who ask because it sets a horribad precedent and if you ahelp "givve me admin" you're going to get your ahelp rejected because a. it's a retarded thing to ahelp and b. most of the admins aren't able to do anything about it
If you really want to be an admin step 1 is to shut up about wanting to be an admin

It's a horrible catch-22 cause if you ask for admin, you're begging, but if you don't, nobody thinks you're interested.

We've had this discussion elsewhere but its not really cogent to the question presented in this thread.

[Qbopper]

there's quite a few admins that aren't in favor of the idea of giving admin to people who ask because it sets a horribad precedent and if you ahelp "givve me admin" you're going to get your ahelp rejected because a. it's a retarded thing to ahelp and b. most of the admins aren't able to do anything about it
If you really want to be an admin step 1 is to shut up about wanting to be an admin

It's a horrible catch-22 cause if you ask for admin, you're begging, but if you don't, nobody thinks you're interested.

We've had this discussion elsewhere but its not really cogent to the question presented in this thread.

essentially what cedar said - this discussion has been had by many admins and players and it's not relevant to this thread

I don't know why taco felt the need to bring it up

[tacolizard]

he said that with our current shortage of admins, this would be impractical to enforce

mabye it would be easier if there was an actual formal way to become an admin :^)


Also admins barely even play at the times they're needed most. I live in California and from like 9 pm onward even Basil can be lacking any admins.


tl;dr

stop spamming me with IC issue bwoinks when i ahelp to ask to trialmin.

there's quite a few admins that aren't in favor of the idea of giving admin to people who ask because it sets a horribad precedent and if you ahelp "givve me admin" you're going to get your ahelp rejected because a. it's a retarded thing to ahelp and b. most of the admins aren't able to do anything about it

If you really want to be an admin step 1 is to shut up about wanting to be an admin

I don't ahelp "give me admin", I ahelp something like "Hey, can I observe you guys or something?". AND I only say it when admintrainers are on AND I've only said it like three times over a long period.

[tacolizard]

there's quite a few admins that aren't in favor of the idea of giving admin to people who ask because it sets a horribad precedent and if you ahelp "givve me admin" you're going to get your ahelp rejected because a. it's a retarded thing to ahelp and b. most of the admins aren't able to do anything about it
If you really want to be an admin step 1 is to shut up about wanting to be an admin

It's a horrible catch-22 cause if you ask for admin, you're begging, but if you don't, nobody thinks you're interested.

We've had this discussion elsewhere but its not really cogent to the question presented in this thread.

essentially what cedar said - this discussion has been had by many admins and players and it's not relevant to this thread

I don't know why taco felt the need to bring it up

I have a strategy of appending a tl;dr about letting me trialmin to anything remotely policy related.

[ThanatosRa]

What's asked in private and in reasonable fashion should not be held to that standard.
Asking in public or repeatedly in private over an unreasonable span of time is totally begging though.

[Slignerd]

On one hand, Tacolizard just derailed a thread to talk about how he wants to be an admin. On the other, it was a shit thread anyway.

[ThanatosRa]

To the shed? Shall I, herald of the shed, lay claim?

[cedarbridge]

To the shed? Shall I, herald of the shed, lay claim?

No, get out, the thread was fine.

[Tokiko2]

You should host a 5-10 player private server with your friends and play a bunch of serious rounds on it and you'll immediatly understand why /tg/ does not have RP and why it's not going to have RP in the forseeable future.

[ThanatosRa]

To the shed? Shall I, herald of the shed, lay claim?

No, get out, the thread was fine.

Yea ok. I agree. Honestly we just need to change the culture for this to work.

[Qbopper]

You should host a 5-10 player private server with your friends and play a bunch of serious rounds on it and you'll immediatly understand why /tg/ does not have RP and why it's not going to have RP in the forseeable future.

i've played many rounds of small private games and the RP was actually fun and enjoyable

it's completely feasible to pretend you're a character on a wacky space station on /tg/, it just gets your ass kicked when people seek valids and don't play along

[Tokiko2]

You should host a 5-10 player private server with your friends and play a bunch of serious rounds on it and you'll immediatly understand why /tg/ does not have RP and why it's not going to have RP in the forseeable future.

i've played many rounds of small private games and the RP was actually fun and enjoyable

it's completely feasible to pretend you're a character on a wacky space station on /tg/, it just gets your ass kicked when people seek valids and don't play along

I believe I should have made my initial post more clear: I did not mean that the /tg/codebase is unsuitable for RP, but rather that the average player on /tg/ is not as friendly as your friends. Are you going to be able to have enjoyable RP with hostile, negative players?

[onleavedontatme]

"Roleplay" might just not scale to 140 strangers online at once yeah.

[FantasticFwoosh]

"Roleplay" might just not scale to 140 strangers online at once yeah.

It seriously depends on the activity, for example CM whips its high amount of players into combat RP vs xenomorphs, wheas we would need a group activity or more RP co-operative round mode that can support that many people.

Right now we aim for like 60 people tops in our average rounds without resembling DA, and most of the time more crew means either a landslide conversion antag win, as singular antag gets super dunked or a lot of greif because its unmanaged. Our population is much much higher than that at peak.

[imblyings]

We probably could but CM has it easier imo. Both sides are essentially opposing team antags who must work together, roleplay in a context where it makes sense to cooperate, and have a lot of rules restricting what happens so the rounds work and people do cooperate. /tg/ has multiple game modes, a lot of which involve people being on their own with no one they can trust or common goal to work towards. Losing is also something CM takes better than we do I think. Every bloody time I've played it the rounds end in the aliens inevitably wrecking the marines aboard their ship but there didn't seem to be any bad feelings about it. Part of it seems to be players investing their time in the journey rather than the results (our greentext) or specific personal projects (our autism projects).

or im all wrong who knows