Hanging out in observe, a form of people watching or antag rolling?

[HeyHey]

Relevant rule: Regularly starting a round just to see if you are an antagonist (antag rolling) then exiting it (via any means) is not allowed. This also covers any attempts to maximize antagonist probability.

If someone was to round start as a crew member and die somehow in order role for ghost antagonist roles that's a clear case of antagonist rolling for two different reasons. However what if someone just wanted to hang around and observe the round without having to participate? Would a round start ghost be breaking a rule if they accept a ghost antag role?

[bastardblaster]

why wouldn't they just ghost from the start menu

[HeyHey]

why wouldn't they just ghost from the start menu

That's my point is it antag rolling to ghost from the start menu and hang out as a ghost if you accept ghost role antags?

[Pandarsenic]

Even entering the round then immediately leaving it occasionally is fine.

Observing from the menu and rolling for an antag if it's offered is totally fine, and I'm going to take a moment to go on a rant

Back in MY DAY there would often be a few people who would just ghost and chill to watch instead of playing every round. They'd chat with people who died, admins observing or using dsay while doing low-impact stuff, etc.

Deadchat is so fucking quiet these days, it's depressing to me. It feels like people just check out when they're dead instead of having any interest in the way the round goes, the RP of other people, etc., even if there's no chance of their own revival.

MY BRITTLE OLD HIP HELP LIFE ALERT

[datorangebottle]

If someone was to round start as a crew member and die somehow in order role for ghost antagonist roles that's a clear case of antagonist rolling for two different reasons. However what if someone just wanted to hang around and observe the round without having to participate? Would a round start ghost be breaking a rule if they accept a ghost antag role?

you would be breaking the antag rolling rules because you joined the round then ghosted.
just join as an observer if you want to hang out in dchat. it's what the observe button was designed for.

[Misdoubtful]

Even entering the round then immediately leaving it occasionally is fine.

Observing from the menu and rolling for an antag if it's offered is totally fine, and I'm going to take a moment to go on a rant

Back in MY DAY there would often be a few people who would just ghost and chill to watch instead of playing every round. They'd chat with people who died, admins observing or using dsay while doing low-impact stuff, etc.

Deadchat is so fucking quiet these days, it's depressing to me. It feels like people just check out when they're dead instead of having any interest in the way the round goes, the RP of other people, etc., even if there's no chance of their own revival.

MY BRITTLE OLD HIP HELP LIFE ALERT

Observers are some of my favorites.

But yeah, its honestly very apparent when someone is doing something like this to try and max their chances of getting antag.

Being a friendly deadland participating observer that by coincidence gets a role later on ain't it though.

[HeyHey]

Thanks for the input, figured observers were permitted but was confused by how the rule is worded.

[Timberpoes]

Rule 1, Precedent 9:

• Regularly starting a round just to see if you are an antagonist (antag rolling) then exiting it (via any means) is not allowed. This also covers any attempts to maximize antagonist probability.

Starting as an observer and hoping for a ghost role is fine. You sacrifice your chance at any of the roundstart ghost roles and many midrounds in exchange for antags that get polled from observers. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this and it's working as designed, and is not maximising your chances to get antag because of that sacrifice.

Joining, dying legitimately and taking a ghost role is fine. Ghost roles are not exclusively for roundstart observers.

The issue is where you join, don't get antag and appear to manufacture a scenario to die and then try and farm ghost roles after. Bonus points if you play the round normally when you do get antag and only die under mysterious circumstances when you're a non-antag.

Behaviour like that is indistinguishable from antag rolling and is thus treated as antag rolling.

[Timberpoes]

Rule 1, Precedent 9:

• Regularly starting a round just to see if you are an antagonist (antag rolling) then exiting it (via any means) is not allowed. This also covers any attempts to maximize antagonist probability.

Starting as an observer and hoping for a ghost role is fine. You sacrifice your chance at any of the roundstart dynamic roles and many midrounds in exchange for antags that get polled from observers. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this and it's working as designed, and is not maximising your chances to get antag because of that sacrifice.

Joining, dying legitimately and taking a ghost role is fine. Ghost roles are not exclusively for roundstart observers.

The issue is where you join, don't get antag and appear to manufacture a scenario to die and then try and farm ghost roles after. Bonus points if you play the round normally when you do get antag and only die under mysterious circumstances when you're a non-antag.

Behaviour like that is indistinguishable from antag rolling and is thus treated as antag rolling.

[dirk_mcblade]

Rule 1, Precedent 9:

• Regularly starting a round just to see if you are an antagonist (antag rolling) then exiting it (via any means) is not allowed. This also covers any attempts to maximize antagonist probability.

Starting as an observer and hoping for a ghost role is fine. You sacrifice your chance at any of the roundstart ghost roles and many midrounds in exchange for antags that get polled from observers. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this and it's working as designed, and is not maximising your chances to get antag because of that sacrifice.

Joining, dying legitimately and taking a ghost role is fine. Ghost roles are not exclusively for roundstart observers.

The issue is where you join, don't get antag and appear to manufacture a scenario to die and then try and farm ghost roles after. Bonus points if you play the round normally when you do get antag and only die under mysterious circumstances when you're a non-antag.

Behaviour like that is indistinguishable from antag rolling and is thus treated as antag rolling.

Instead of putting a burden on admins to police that sort of behavior why don't you just code it so people who die within XX minutes of roundstart more often than YY% of their most recent (5?) rounds don't get offered ghost roles?
Seems like a really easily stopped exploit and seems to eliminate what is essentially busy work for humans.

[Timberpoes]

Because there's no good code solution that doesn't impact platers that legitimately die or get killed by antags early, and any code solution is going to be less nuanced than a human investigation.

It's against the rules and admins are fit and capable of understanding when the rules have been broken and when a death was genuine.

[terranaut]

people thinking about this too deeply should take their meds or inhale enough n2o to be put back into 1980s eastern germany where they can fulfill their life's dream of being a neighborhood stasi v-man

[Rohen_Tahir]

people thinking about this too deeply should take their meds or inhale enough n2o to be put back into 1980s eastern germany where they can fulfill their life's dream of being a neighborhood stasi v-man

[RandomlyEvil]

Back in MY DAY there would often be a few people who would just ghost and chill to watch instead of playing every round. They'd chat with people who died, admins observing or using dsay while doing low-impact stuff, etc.

Deadchat is so fucking quiet these days, it's depressing to me. It feels like people just check out when they're dead instead of having any interest in the way the round goes, the RP of other people, etc., even if there's no chance of their own revival.

MY BRITTLE OLD HIP HELP LIFE ALERT

This is what I do a large portion of time (be it due to multitasking, round start timing, etc etc) and I have to say that Terry Dchat has always (since I've started) been a chill place to chat, watch the shenanigans, discuss ideas, learn odd tidbits about the game, etc. Not sure where you min, but Terry lowpop hours (~6pm EST and later) especially are great for this.

[Yulice]

Rule 1, Precedent 9:

• Regularly starting a round just to see if you are an antagonist (antag rolling) then exiting it (via any means) is not allowed. This also covers any attempts to maximize antagonist probability.

Starting as an observer and hoping for a ghost role is fine. You sacrifice your chance at any of the roundstart ghost roles and many midrounds in exchange for antags that get polled from observers. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this and it's working as designed, and is not maximising your chances to get antag because of that sacrifice.

Joining, dying legitimately and taking a ghost role is fine. Ghost roles are not exclusively for roundstart observers.

The issue is where you join, don't get antag and appear to manufacture a scenario to die and then try and farm ghost roles after. Bonus points if you play the round normally when you do get antag and only die under mysterious circumstances when you're a non-antag.

Behaviour like that is indistinguishable from antag rolling and is thus treated as antag rolling.

Me watching the 800 hour miner mains who can clear out every megafauna on lavaland in 30 minutes mysteriously die to a single ash drake at 5 minutes in.

[san7890]

Presently, we do not see any issue with the current system of allowing people to go round-start observer (especially chaining up rounds of going observer). If this were to be implemented, it would just manufacturer more reason for people to suicide shift-start or die under other "mysterious" circumstances in order to get those free ghost role gives. The amount of body litter and otherwise waste of a round-start job position in a significant number of these cases make this option non-appealing.

One thing worth mentioning is that going observer on multiple servers (for the express purpose of getting more antag rolls) at the same time is considered antagonist rolling. However, organically going observer on a singular server and picking up roles as they come across is completely fine.