Itseasytosee2me wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 8:02 pm
Higgin wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 7:38 pm
I think Dalm's angle is more about making things gentler for antags who feel like they have a lot of validhunting pressure on them because of how things work but want to do something slower, more chill, or narrative that might expose them to getting outed as they have dramatic scenes or negotiations.
I don't understand why wanting to do something "slower, more chill, or narrative" excuses sloppy traitoring. But I might be misunderstanding your point, could you give a little more context to what you mean?
I hope I don't misrepresent this if it's not exactly your case @Dalm and please smack me if I do, but the argument I'm speaking to is,
1. if people remember who you are after you kill them, for any reason, it's much riskier to leave them recoverable if not alive
2. even if they might not want to out you, the fact that they can creates the expectation that they will (sometimes most aggressively from other teammates or crew)
3. because of this, if they happen upon you in a vulnerable position, as an antag, they will expect that you will behave according to #1, leading them to be more reflexively violent and competitive to avoid getting RR'd (just like they think you will - this might not be intentional!)
4. doing gimmicks and bits, slowing down to talk to people, or otherwise behaving in ways that increase tension over time involves, if you're doing it on purpose, choosing to make yourself vulnerable
5. being protected when you fuck up and reflexively shoot the person who walks into the room at a bad moment from that escalating into a high-stakes hunt-and-chase, while still letting them get revived and everyone keep playing, reduces your felt need to shoot on reflex in the future
6. so hopefully deescalating sec and others' need to shoot/baton on reflex, deescalating the stakes in a way more permissive of people not playing at a hard, competitive level all the time
There's been a similar argument around stuff like making being cuffed)stunned stop radio use.
It doesn't make excuses for people who are sloppy or poor in their antagonism (i.e. not using emps, a radio jammer) - but it does, supposedly, provide protection to those for whom the competitive antagonism game isn't as important.
The problem is, it also provides a very felt degree of unfair protection for people like the dumbdumb stealth antags who leave all their tools on the table, rely on the policy on its face (or only bring it up when they lose,) and behave in a way that still makes you want to baton the dude you see wearing a camo kit on-sight even if he was doing a totally unrelated bit.
tl;dr this is a policy not meant to protect stock antags, necessarily, but it does.
The stated goal of
Less pressure on antags who are trying to be stealthy to round remove people they kill, knowing that they won't necessarily be ratted out immediately. This helps to emphasise the social deduction parts of the game and gives antagonists, especially ones like traitor or changeling, a little more control over when they get to go loud.
just doesn't work out well in practice. The most charitable argument is towards an entirely different game, or changing balance around stealth items instead of policy.