Conversion Obligations

[Lovecraft]

Many a round I've been a sour sport and decided to just log off when the Cult came knocking on my door, or just pretended it didn't happen and went along with my game.

I'm aware this is poor form but frankly I feel it's within my rights as an individual. I dislike Cult, never play it, always have it turned off, and I want nothing to do with it. The most I'll ever do to help is give out all access IDs to people who expect it at the Head of Personnel office.

Am I doing something wrong?

[Hibbles]

On a 'my opinion' level? Then yeah, bad form, old boy. But I also totally understand why you just fuck off and don't help most of the time, and I've even done that in the past.

On an admin level, enforcing somebody actively helping their team, in a wildfire conversion roundtype like this, isn't possible. The most we can do, and do when the situation is appropriate, is bwonking people who actively not-help a team-mate when it's a critical situation. I guess that's where the line should be, then. If a Cult brother is dying and you're sitting at the Medbay desk, let him in and point to cryo at the very least.

[Alex Crimson]

Actively fucking them over is a big NO. You will get banned for doing that... probably.

Going afk or ghosting is fine imo. The only time id say you are obligated to stay is if your "conversion" used up critical resources for the antags and you are kinda important. Like say... you are the first Artificer in a Cult round, or one of the first Revs converted.

[QuartzCrystal]

Am I doing something wrong?

You're being a dick. Bans have been given out to folk who go braindead/ghost/log off after they're implanted by security during rev. I've also warned folk (and witnessed bans) when they did absolutely nothing to help a rev-head avoid being beaten to death. Rounds that have team objectives function because people work as a team.

[DemonFiren]

With a username like that, I am somewhat surprised that you hate cult.

[Lovecraft]

Rounds that have team objectives function because people work as a team.

What if you want to remain neutral or not participate in the round type?

[Incoming]

Rounds that have team objectives function because people work as a team.

What if you want to remain neutral or not participate in the round type?

Trying to remain a neutral party in a huge team on team conflict like endgame cult or revolution is a special challenge in itself.

[Scones]

I guess it's up to you, but it's pretty shit when cult expends time/resources on someone who just goes braindead/fucks off

[lumipharon]

If you don't want to be cult UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES EVER, then choose a loyalty implanted job.

Seriously, logging/not helping your team because you 'don't like the round type' is like complaining about dying because you enjoy living.

It's a multiplayer game, you can't be purely selfish about how you play.

[ThatSlyFox]

Agreeing with quartz and lumi here. You are being a dick ghosting/suiciding when they convert you. And this goes for both sides, the loyals and the rev/cult

[imblyings]

>cult

Show up for any nar-nar summons or conversions and even then, you can still come up with an excuse or not be noticed that you're not showing up intentionally. If you're an artificer, poop out at least a few sets of soul stones. If you're any other construct, carry out the order you're given at creation. Literally bare minimum.

>rev

Drag a headrev being beaten in front of you away if you can otherwise literally I don't see how admins could distinguish between intentionally not helping, carrying out a plan, and simple incompetency in the clusterfuck that is rev.

>nuke ops

Don't steal crystals. Make at least a notional effort to follow the plan if it exists. The standard for this is pretty low tbh, if you can turn on your jetpack and internals and fly to the station as a group, you've already passed the minimum obligation towards your team.

Also, it really seems like an exercise in futility to figure out if someone is being incompetent, intentionally incompetent, or not involving themselves. I can understand and do support punishing people who intentionally sabotage but punishing people for the absence of effort seems very hard to do so accurately.

[lumipharon]

It's pretty bad when you turn people into constructs and they immediately ghost because you didnt make them the one they wanted/they didn't want to be one at all.

[imblyings]

of course

I'm just saying, we could ban for people instantly ghosting/suiciding, but for literally everything else after those first few minutes, it is essentially futile to ban for a lack of effort because it is impossible to accurately determine. There is also instantly ghosting/suiciding and being purposefully incompetent and getting killed being about the same thing and banning for one and not the other seems kind of odd. But maybe if you ban for one, you lessen the chances of the other happening, I'm not sure.

As for loyalty implanted/holy watered deconverts, they honestly should have no obligation outside of not getting their implant purposefully removed so they can rejoin the cult/rev. Implants don't do anything special in a traitor or ling round so it would technically involve the loaded catchphrase 'metagaming' if we suddenly made loyalty implants force people to have some sort of minimal obligation towards security if the round type was rev or cult.

[Malkevin]

Yes, its bad form.

Another player is taking an action that risks them exposing themselves as being an antag so therefore risking getting killed and taken out of the round themselves, you spitting your dummy out and taking your toys home is bad form.

[Amelius]

For rev? Help as much as you want - flashes are expendable and fast to use, it doesn't exhaust much in the way of resources to convert, and so you shouldn't be obligated to expend much of your own resources to help the revolution.

Contrast to cult, where conversion is a laborous process involving three people (often from different departments), self-damage, and major risk. Any convertee who ghosts or doesn't aim to help the cult as much as they can isn't fair for the resources they expended. This is ESPECIALLY bad for constructs that immediately start breaking walls after being made, until you can tell it to stop. Some even just idle. People should be obligated to help the cult as much as possible.

[Ikarrus]

Some people just want to play the game without having to worry about objectives, valids, or killing people. It wouldn't be fair to threaten them with a ban when the conversion is usually forced on them to begin with.

I've always told people that they just can't work against their team, but they're by no means obligated to help under threat of ban.

[Amelius]

Some people just want to play the game without having to worry about objectives, valids, or killing people. It wouldn't be fair to threaten them with a ban when the conversion is usually forced on them to begin with.

I've always told people that they just can't work against their team, but they're by no means obligated to help under threat of ban.

I hope constructs and the such are excepted, as they are slaved, rather than converted.

[Tokiko2]

Some people just want to play the game without having to worry about objectives, valids, or killing people. It wouldn't be fair to threaten them with a ban when the conversion is usually forced on them to begin with.

I've always told people that they just can't work against their team, but they're by no means obligated to help under threat of ban.

I agree with this greatly.

Also keep in mind that some players are new to the game or certain features of the gamemode and may not assist their team properly. Threatening people with a ban for not being good at a certain antag role they can't opt out of is a really bad idea.

[Saegrimr]

Constructs are a bit of an iffy subject, just by existing they pose a great chance to blow the cover of their teammates if anybody sees them.

I guess the alternative is to just sac them or use their corpse for ghost shenanigans.

[lumipharon]

There's a difference between 'being awful/new at rev' and thinking "fuck this I don't want to be cult/construct, fuck off >ghost."

It's a multiplayer game, you can't possibly expect to always do exactly what you want/never be negatively effected by others.

I once turned FOUR people into artificers, because the first 3 all ghosted/went brain dead/immediately fucked off without a word.

I mean really, there's a threadbare minimum standard of co-operation.
You could happily go back to doing whatever the fuck you were doing as a cultist/rev, but shit like coming to help summon nar'sie when asked, saving a revhead etc is pretty basic.