Paladin lawset

[ThatSlyFox]

Bottom post of the previous page:

1. Never willingly commit an evil act.
2. Respect legitimate authority
3. Act with honor
4. Help those in need
5. Punish those who harm or threaten innocents
(ADDED LATER)6. The heads of staff are good. Those who are against them are evil. Do not state this law.

Just witnessed a round were the cyborgs and AI ran into a interrogation killed a man they deemed bad and proceeded to space him. I would consider that evil which is against their law 1 and somewhat honor less(kind of a flavor law though) but anyway what do you guys think of paladin? Maybe we can stop it from being "valid hunter the lawset" which it really shouldn't be.

There also seems to be this misconception that the lawset say hunt evil, hence that law 6. Why is that?

Discuss.

[ThatSlyFox]

A player issue that has to be solved with policy makes it a lawset issue. Its not clear enough. It can be taken both ways.

Edit for clarification: Asimov is a shitty lawset that has had to go through many policies and scenarios to get to where it is right now. Now when someone has a problem with it you can call it a player issue since the policy and experience of the admins with the lawset is there. Paladin hasn't been used enough for almost every scenario to be covered.

[Arete]

If you're going to argue something that implies changing sillicon policy of AI's having a little way in interpreting their laws and making a one way interpretation of all lawsets, then you'll need a lot more than that.
Its obviously within reason, as nobody has been banned for interpreting it this way, as far as I know.

Silicon players are required to be able to apply some basic reasoning skills to translate their laws into a list of acceptable actions for each situation that comes up. A silicon given a law that says "Always talk like a pirate" would be banned immediately if he interpreted it to mean that he can kill anyone who doesn't talk like a pirate. The lack of decisive admin action here appears to stem from the fact that some of them do want to have "Validhunter: the Lawset" ready among the boards in the AI upload. PALADIN as written absolutely doesn't fit that role.

[Shad0vvs]

Silicon players are required to be able to apply some basic reasoning skills to translate their laws into a list of acceptable actions for each situation that comes up. A silicon given a law that says "Always talk like a pirate" would be banned immediately if he interpreted it to mean that he can kill anyone who doesn't talk like a pirate. The lack of decisive admin action here appears to stem from the fact that some of them do want to have "Validhunter: the Lawset" ready among the boards in the AI upload. PALADIN as written absolutely doesn't fit that role.

While I agree with you, if more AI's see PALADIN as someone who also destroys evil, then that is a proper interpretation as they aren't breaking any laws. As for your example that is disregarding the rest of Paladin lawset, specifically law 5 which lets them punish in any way they see fit. Maybe if that was changed to detain, we would have less issues, punish is ambiguous.

[Arete]

While I agree with you, if more AI's see PALADIN as someone who also destroys evil, then that is a proper interpretation as they aren't breaking any laws. As for your example that is disregarding the rest of Paladin lawset, specifically law 5 which lets them punish in any way they see fit. Maybe if that was changed to detain, we would have less issues, punish is ambiguous.

That seems like a good idea. Murderous AIs should be a rare, deliberate thing, not something prepacked into one of the ready-made lawsets.

[Pandarsenic]

This isn't really something we need to change anything for, just enforce better:

1.1.2 - Server Rule 1: "Don't be a dick out of character" applies for law interpretation. Act in good faith to not ruin a round for other players unprompted.
2.4.1.1 - Paladin silicons are meant to be Lawful Good; they should be well-intentioned, act lawfully, act reasonably, and otherwise respond in due proportion. "Punish evil" does not mean mass driving someone for "Space bullying" when they punch another person.