(MRP) Antags actively going counter to their IC objectives

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Vekter
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(MRP) Antags actively going counter to their IC objectives

Post by Vekter » #676671

Bottom post of the previous page:

Okay, stay with me here, this is probably going to be confusing.

As it stands right now, antags have freedom to ignore their objectives on MRP. I don't think that should necessarily change, but I do think that letting antags do things that directly contradict their objectives without a valid IC reason is unhealthy for the state of RP on the server.

Example: A heretic decides they will kill people who are trying to stop a blob from expanding and consuming the station. They have little to no actual IC justification for doing this aside from "The crew wants me dead, so I'm helping the blob so it'll kill all of us". The issue here is that their justification feels weak considering that the blob will, upon winning, kill them. You can't ascend if you're dead, so It's my opinion that if you're going to help another antagonist that is undoubtedly going to kill you and prevent you from your stated IC goals, you better have a really good reason.

For the record, I would be perfectly fine with something like "A flesh heretic thinks the blob is the return of their god and that it wants to consume everyone". That's cool! I love that idea! I'm fine with it! It's just that the reasoning shouldn't be something like "I felt like it" or "I don't like the crew". You have an IC reason to be an antag. For this example, it's ascending. Why would you act directly counter to that objective without a valid reason for doing so?

This isn't meant to mandate the requirement that antags be always trying to push towards greentext. I still think that's unhealthy for the game and shuts out a lot of very interesting situations. I just think that actively working against your interests as an antag shouldn't be something you do lightly.

For example's sake:

* A traitor helping nukies kill people to blow up the station, with their justification being "They're also Syndicate members, I feel like it'd be logical for me to assist them" - This fits well within their IC reasoning.
* A heretic helping nukies kill people to blow up the station, with their justification being "I hate them and want them to die" - Kind of flimsy, but assuming there's RP to be had between the nuke ops about letting them live/escape with them, this could be acceptable.
* A changeling refusing to absorb anyone because they're vegan - Silly, but okay, I guess I could see it.
* A traitor helping defend a malfunctioning AI that just pulled delta because they were nice to them or helped them earlier - This is fine.
* A traitor helping defend a malfunctioning AI that just pulled delta for literally no justifiable IC reason - This is not.

Keep in mind that none of this is meant to punish players for playing sub-optimally or doing things that don't help them greentext, it's meant to encourage people to have a good IC reason if they intend to prevent themselves from being able to do their goals for the sake of helping another antag.

E: Also none of this applies to team antags, there's already rulings against doing things that actively harm your team.
Last edited by Vekter on Thu Apr 06, 2023 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
AliasTakuto wrote: Thu Jan 04, 2024 1:11 pm As for the ear replacing stuff, you can ask Anne but I don't think this is what I was banned for. If I was all I can say is "Sorry for being hilarious"...
Omega_DarkPotato wrote:This sucks, dude.
Spoiler:
Reply PM from-REDACTED/(REDACTED): i tried to remove the bruises by changing her gender

PM: Bluespace->Delaron: Nobody wants a mime's asscheeks farting on their brig windows.

PM: REDACTED->HotelBravoLima: Oh come on, knowing that these are hostile aliens is metagaming

[17:43] <Aranclanos> any other question ping me again
[17:43] <Vekter> Aranclanos for nicest coder 2015
[17:44] <Aranclanos> fuck you
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dessysalta
Joined: Fri May 20, 2022 12:49 am
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Re: (MRP) Antags actively going counter to their IC objectives

Post by dessysalta » #679624

NecromancerAnne wrote: Fri Apr 07, 2023 1:46 pm I think the more you push broad rules about conduct, the more you stifle creativity. This is why we had the recent rule update to allow for more general freedom. When you are at the mercy of an admin over whether or not your behaviour is conducive to your role, or you have to not flub explaining to the admin your reasoning when you're already in a role that needs a lot of your attention, you're holding a gun up to their head whenever they may step vaguely out of line of their objectives. Nobody wants that level of scrutiny on them at all times. It is absolutely a toxic process that will bleed into the server itself and peoples enjoyment if taken too far.

We should not regress our ruleset with further constraints. The objectives should remain suggestions, as should the roles overall goals. If someone is being overly murdery for no reason, we have rules that exist to handle that.
Extremely well-said, I agree.
Sherrie, mostly. If you need a drink, I can do that.
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Vekter
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Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:25 pm
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Re: (MRP) Antags actively going counter to their IC objectives

Post by Vekter » #680139

Yeah, Anne's got a good point. Common W.

I'm gonna lock this up.
AliasTakuto wrote: Thu Jan 04, 2024 1:11 pm As for the ear replacing stuff, you can ask Anne but I don't think this is what I was banned for. If I was all I can say is "Sorry for being hilarious"...
Omega_DarkPotato wrote:This sucks, dude.
Spoiler:
Reply PM from-REDACTED/(REDACTED): i tried to remove the bruises by changing her gender

PM: Bluespace->Delaron: Nobody wants a mime's asscheeks farting on their brig windows.

PM: REDACTED->HotelBravoLima: Oh come on, knowing that these are hostile aliens is metagaming

[17:43] <Aranclanos> any other question ping me again
[17:43] <Vekter> Aranclanos for nicest coder 2015
[17:44] <Aranclanos> fuck you
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