The Reality of Roleplay and Schizo-Policies

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Subtle
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The Reality of Roleplay and Schizo-Policies

Post by Subtle » #25760

Bottom post of the previous page:

Now right off the bat I can promise this thread won't do much other than provoke a massive argument. That said, it does need to be mentioned.

How can we call ourselves a roleplaying server when our rules explicitly forbid meta/powergaming only to go on and allow certain forms of them? There's a balance we need to strike, true, but that balance is reached simply by allowing people to run goofy gimmicks or understand how to work every job regardless of their signup-slot. Metagaming antagonist items/practices/biological processes and the complete disregard for having antagonists at least attempt roleplay does nothing but harm to our community. I'll be frank; if you're logging onto the station to murderbone and ayy lmao you're a cancer I'd like to see cut out with prejudice.

Based on the document SoS provided as a potential reworking of security policy I'd like to say he's extremely frustrated with the "gamist" direction we as a group are allowing this server to take. This is, or was, at its core a roleplaying game. His rewrite depended heavily on security toning down their validhunting and, I quote, "thwarting antagonists while and through roleplaying." I first brought up my concerns about this discrepancy in a thread related to that rewrite. It's absolutely absurd that we can suggest that the crew in general needs to suffer in silence while antagonists are essentially CoD-players in a DnD game.

I affirm that without change to server policy and genuine administrative leadership regarding the enforcement of at least halfassed roleplaying we're already no better than NoX was. Don't know about the rest of you but that thought makes me sick. It's very common among other servers to suggest the crew in general be ignorant of antagonist practices and to force antagonists to create conflict in the round while roleplaying instead of spawning two eswords and going to town. I believe an attempt at emulating these practices will create a better environment for everyone involved.

Those whose experience wouldn't be improved by such changes are, again quite frankly, not the kind of people who create fun for anyone but themselves anyway. I'm tired of greytiders, I'm tired of sarcastic halfass roleplay that only crops up when I ping people for OOC/IC, and I'm especially tired of tolerating the griefers/line-toers who unashamedly mock and drive away good players so they can claim /tg/ as their deathmatch cesspool.

It won't be easy. The current policies are so set in stone that I won't be the least bit surprised if this is met with nothing but a chorus of dissent from those of you who enjoy robust combat. Personally I feel you're wrong. I have no shame in saying that and no desire to continue standing by while the very concept of being in-character goes extinct.

That rant having been completed my questions to everyone are as follows...
1) What do we lose from enforcing stricter roleplaying standards? What do we gain?
2) Is there any communal benefit from "CoD" playstyles? From murderboning?
3) Would the community like to see security and/or antagonists held to a higher standard when it comes to IC-reasoning?
4) Would the community like to see greater punishments for breaking character or meta/powergaming?

Cut off the limb to save the body, folks. That's all I can really say. If not then let's quit pretending roleplay matters at all here if it in fact doesn't.
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Re: The Reality of Roleplay and Schizo-Policies

Post by Scott » #27432

It's easier to just remove things and call yourself a coder than to actually create something good.
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Skorvold
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Re: The Reality of Roleplay and Schizo-Policies

Post by Skorvold » #27624

We should leave Sybil as it is and gear Server 2 as a more RP heavy server by rules. I don't know of any other community that has done this and I think it would be a great way to handle the current population and behavioral issues.
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Re: The Reality of Roleplay and Schizo-Policies

Post by Lo6a4evskiy » #27628

Skorvold wrote:We should leave Sybil as it is and gear Server 2 as a more RP heavy server by rules. I don't know of any other community that has done this and I think it would be a great way to handle the current population and behavioral issues.
Russian SS13 community has done that. They had/have like 3 servers with different rules, maps, codes, admins, players.

Let's just say there's a reason I'm not playing there.
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Re: The Reality of Roleplay and Schizo-Policies

Post by Steelpoint » #27632

Also other servers provide that more heavy role play aspect better than we do.

I would need to see the kind of population numbers you would expect to get of a heavy role play /tg/ server. I don't think that is what a lot of people want, or at least not enough to support a sustainable population.
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Re: The Reality of Roleplay and Schizo-Policies

Post by Incomptinence » #27657

Wasn't there a small server set up by some of those who played here to run heavier RP rules at some point? Can't remember the name or if they are still running just went there and asked them about their rules in ooc.
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Re: The Reality of Roleplay and Schizo-Policies

Post by ColonicAcid » #28057

Sigurd.

;_;7

It's still alive I think I'll direct snake2512 (their strayan' cunt headmin ay ye get it in ya) to this thread as soon as i get ahold of him because >LOL LIVING IN THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WORLD
crack is whack but smacks got your back
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Re: The Reality of Roleplay and Schizo-Policies

Post by damiac » #28062

Incomptinence wrote:Wasn't there a small server set up by some of those who played here to run heavier RP rules at some point? Can't remember the name or if they are still running just went there and asked them about their rules in ooc.
Maybe you're thinking of Urist McStation?
They're running on baycode now. I played there a few weeks ago, and they were just running random rounds... not secret, but random. After a couple of malf rounds which announced themselves as malf rounds I decided that server wasn't for me anymore... too bad though, it's a nice group of people, and I liked the 'medium RP' aspect.
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Re: The Reality of Roleplay and Schizo-Policies

Post by QuartzCrystal » #28068

Don't know if it's been said already in some way, but one of the reasons why I like tg-station is because sometimes some serious roleplay will emerge naturally and spontaneously. There's been countless times I've played a round or observed a round, for no tangible reason, simply began to be taken very seriously by most if not everyone. While I get people wanting things to be more consistent, I find a lot of the heavy/medium RP servers are boring as hell. It's only in the chaos of tg-station when suddenly some amazing RP happens I truly appreciate and enjoy it. Sometimes it's emerged due to heavy admin involvement, but more often it's just been a case of the right people having the right roles and being in the right mood.
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Re: The Reality of Roleplay and Schizo-Policies

Post by cedarbridge » #28074

QuartzCrystal wrote:Don't know if it's been said already in some way, but one of the reasons why I like tg-station is because sometimes some serious roleplay will emerge naturally and spontaneously. There's been countless times I've played a round or observed a round, for no tangible reason, simply began to be taken very seriously by most if not everyone. While I get people wanting things to be more consistent, I find a lot of the heavy/medium RP servers are boring as hell. It's only in the chaos of tg-station when suddenly some amazing RP happens I truly appreciate and enjoy it. Sometimes it's emerged due to heavy admin involvement, but more often it's just been a case of the right people having the right roles and being in the right mood.
The problem I have with our lack of stable lore is, 90% of players don't have any idea what's going on (or care) on the station. Some think they're on some sort of military installation (NT is a corporate entity not a governmental one.) The fact that we even had to have a thread to manually add insubordination to Spess Law is a thing too. Departments end up feeling isolated and more like city-states or communes than actual appendages of a complete station. I'd weigh part of this on a minimal requirement to observe the chain of command on the station (both IC and OOC) and also the nature of the playerbase.

I guess what I'm getting at is that it feels less like the crew are an actual station crew and more like "40-60 people who happen to be on a station of some sort with randomized access".
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Re: The Reality of Roleplay and Schizo-Policies

Post by QuartzCrystal » #28101

cedarbridge wrote:
QuartzCrystal wrote:Don't know if it's been said already in some way, but one of the reasons why I like tg-station is because sometimes some serious roleplay will emerge naturally and spontaneously. There's been countless times I've played a round or observed a round, for no tangible reason, simply began to be taken very seriously by most if not everyone. While I get people wanting things to be more consistent, I find a lot of the heavy/medium RP servers are boring as hell. It's only in the chaos of tg-station when suddenly some amazing RP happens I truly appreciate and enjoy it. Sometimes it's emerged due to heavy admin involvement, but more often it's just been a case of the right people having the right roles and being in the right mood.
The problem I have with our lack of stable lore is, 90% of players don't have any idea what's going on (or care) on the station. Some think they're on some sort of military installation (NT is a corporate entity not a governmental one.) The fact that we even had to have a thread to manually add insubordination to Spess Law is a thing too. Departments end up feeling isolated and more like city-states or communes than actual appendages of a complete station. I'd weigh part of this on a minimal requirement to observe the chain of command on the station (both IC and OOC) and also the nature of the playerbase.

I guess what I'm getting at is that it feels less like the crew are an actual station crew and more like "40-60 people who happen to be on a station of some sort with randomized access".
I disagree, TG captures the feeling of being an actual crew a lot better than most other servers while still being fun (read: not boring). Plus the isolation of the departments feels reaaaally corporate to me. Also, linking wiki lore pages is all we can do about that.
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Re: The Reality of Roleplay and Schizo-Policies

Post by Snake2512 » #28131

ColonicAcid wrote:Sigurd.

;_;7

It's still alive I think I'll direct snake2512 (their strayan' cunt headmin ay ye get it in ya) to this thread as soon as i get ahold of him because >LOL LIVING IN THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WORLD
Someone called? Also sorry lads but I stepped down to another bloke, but everyone still calls me Headmin/Oberfuhrer so uh yeah.

My policies are still in tact though, the ERP menace will not step foot, metagroups will be burnt to the ground and elitism is only allowed for the Headmin.
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Re: The Reality of Roleplay and Schizo-Policies

Post by Hibbles » #29039

I agree with Quartz, particularly relative to any other server I think /tg/ strikes an okay balance. The idea of trying to Enforce a More Correct Way to Enjoy The Game is always, always worrisome, although sometimes needed (if your idea of fun is griefing Security, for instance). People who like to fight changelings should find as much here to like as people who like to stand around talking about how their family was killed in a plasma fire on Mars thirty years ago.

And you'll note both of those can be taken to extreme levels, as we see with people metagaming or abusing mechanics to Win at the expense of fun.... and people making the game boring as shit, blocking what antags can do, and making rounds literally six hours where nothing happens and half or more of the people fuck off... at the expense of fun.

SG asks what if any benefit we get from people playing SS13 like it's a game and not a tabletop campaign. My answer is simple. Some people like it better that way. So what if it's not what was intended? People talk about SS13 like there's no law and order, chaos is always happening, anybody can go on a murder spree, and the station has no safety features or safety design or security... and yet that's not how it actually is in practice, since we like it better when that's not always true.

It's fine to say SS13 should be chaos! death! anarchy! but try implementing that and the result isn't something you're likely to enjoy.

It's fine to say /tg/ should be about roleplay and not gameplay! but try implementing that and the result isn't something you're likely to enjoy.
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Re: The Reality of Roleplay and Schizo-Policies

Post by Psyentific » #29267

Scott wrote:
Subtle wrote: How can we call ourselves a roleplaying server
We do?
/tg/station13

/tg/ - Traditional Games
A board dedicated entirely to tabletop role playing games, tabletop wargames and trading card games. Dungeons and Dragons, Warhammer 40k, Magic The Gathering.
/tg/station is a roleplaying server from a roleplaying community, with core members of the playerbase and administration who value roleplaying. If you don't want to at least pay lip service to that, get the fuck out.

It's really, really not hard to half-ass a character. Pretend it's not a game, have a last name, type properly, maybe throw on a funny accent or something. British Aristocrat, Efficient German, Angry Quartermaster, Lusty Argonian, whatever. Maybe make a mute that communicates entirely through PDA, paper, and gestures? Nobody's asking you to come up with a three page backstory, because that'll never come into play. But everyone's asking everyone else to pretend to be a 2d spaceman. Maybe even pretend to be someone you aren't. On the policy side of things, I actually would like to see some sort of RP Standards guideline. Nothing hard, really - Mostly the above. Type properly, have a last name, don't OOC in IC. Put at least a little thought into a character - What they like, what they don't like.


Re: Roleplay vs Gameplay
Why can't we have both? Almost everyone agrees that trying to RP a combat encounter isn't viable; We can leave that to harder RP servers that treat RP as a primary goal. But what happens when you're not in a dangerous situation? That's when your characterization ought to be coming to the fore. It's entirely possible to have a decent mixture of robusting and RP - I do it all the time. All it takes is reading the situation - Is the guy hostile? If yes, shoot. If no, talk and/or threaten. If you're just sitting around in a brig cell, try and strike up a conversation. If you're bored, talk to someone. If you think you can maintain a 'character voice', try'n keep that on, knowwhai'm sayin'?
I haven't logged into SS13 in at least a year.
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Re: The Reality of Roleplay and Schizo-Policies

Post by cedarbridge » #29306

Psyentific wrote:
Scott wrote:
Subtle wrote: How can we call ourselves a roleplaying server
We do?
/tg/station13

/tg/ - Traditional Games
A board dedicated entirely to tabletop role playing games, tabletop wargames and trading card games. Dungeons and Dragons, Warhammer 40k, Magic The Gathering.
/tg/station is a roleplaying server from a roleplaying community, with core members of the playerbase and administration who value roleplaying. If you don't want to at least pay lip service to that, get the fuck out.

It's really, really not hard to half-ass a character. Pretend it's not a game, have a last name, type properly, maybe throw on a funny accent or something. British Aristocrat, Efficient German, Angry Quartermaster, Lusty Argonian, whatever. Maybe make a mute that communicates entirely through PDA, paper, and gestures? Nobody's asking you to come up with a three page backstory, because that'll never come into play. But everyone's asking everyone else to pretend to be a 2d spaceman. Maybe even pretend to be someone you aren't. On the policy side of things, I actually would like to see some sort of RP Standards guideline. Nothing hard, really - Mostly the above. Type properly, have a last name, don't OOC in IC. Put at least a little thought into a character - What they like, what they don't like.


Re: Roleplay vs Gameplay
Why can't we have both? Almost everyone agrees that trying to RP a combat encounter isn't viable; We can leave that to harder RP servers that treat RP as a primary goal. But what happens when you're not in a dangerous situation? That's when your characterization ought to be coming to the fore. It's entirely possible to have a decent mixture of robusting and RP - I do it all the time. All it takes is reading the situation - Is the guy hostile? If yes, shoot. If no, talk and/or threaten. If you're just sitting around in a brig cell, try and strike up a conversation. If you're bored, talk to someone. If you think you can maintain a 'character voice', try'n keep that on, knowwhai'm sayin'?
When I arrived back here after so many years of frogetting SS13 existed I was told this was a "light RP" server. That at least meant to me that the server had more characterization and more general "RP" feel to it than a quake server. Heance the reason the seemingly endless tide of mute non-mimes on the station really gets to me. If you can't be bothered to speak to a visibly non-hostile character, you should really consider why you're playing SS13 in general. I can think of only a few reasons not to interact on a basic RP level with others and most of those reasons end in validseeking/p2w.
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Re: The Reality of Roleplay and Schizo-Policies

Post by QuartzCrystal » #29334

Majority of players on tg-station do indeed do some level of roleplay.
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Re: The Reality of Roleplay and Schizo-Policies

Post by Hibbles » #29345

Or maybe some days you're not in the mood to talk, cedar. I know in real life I don't talk to everybody I meet on the street, or even everybody I meet at work. Whether I'm just doing my job, walking something somewhere, or out on Sec patrol, I might stop to wave or say hi, but that's not like the be-all-and-end-all of RP stuff.
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Re: The Reality of Roleplay and Schizo-Policies

Post by Scott » #29366

Psyentific wrote:
Scott wrote:
Subtle wrote: How can we call ourselves a roleplaying server
We do?
/tg/station13

/tg/ - Traditional Games
A board dedicated entirely to tabletop role playing games, tabletop wargames and trading card games. Dungeons and Dragons, Warhammer 40k, Magic The Gathering.
/tg/station is a roleplaying server from a roleplaying community, with core members of the playerbase and administration who value roleplaying. If you don't want to at least pay lip service to that, get the fuck out.

It's really, really not hard to half-ass a character. Pretend it's not a game, have a last name, type properly, maybe throw on a funny accent or something. British Aristocrat, Efficient German, Angry Quartermaster, Lusty Argonian, whatever. Maybe make a mute that communicates entirely through PDA, paper, and gestures? Nobody's asking you to come up with a three page backstory, because that'll never come into play. But everyone's asking everyone else to pretend to be a 2d spaceman. Maybe even pretend to be someone you aren't. On the policy side of things, I actually would like to see some sort of RP Standards guideline. Nothing hard, really - Mostly the above. Type properly, have a last name, don't OOC in IC. Put at least a little thought into a character - What they like, what they don't like.


Re: Roleplay vs Gameplay
Why can't we have both? Almost everyone agrees that trying to RP a combat encounter isn't viable; We can leave that to harder RP servers that treat RP as a primary goal. But what happens when you're not in a dangerous situation? That's when your characterization ought to be coming to the fore. It's entirely possible to have a decent mixture of robusting and RP - I do it all the time. All it takes is reading the situation - Is the guy hostile? If yes, shoot. If no, talk and/or threaten. If you're just sitting around in a brig cell, try and strike up a conversation. If you're bored, talk to someone. If you think you can maintain a 'character voice', try'n keep that on, knowwhai'm sayin'?
I was referring to RP as serious RP, this server is light RP, hence the question.
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Re: The Reality of Roleplay and Schizo-Policies

Post by Lo6a4evskiy » #29370

We just need to cut down on people who want only to win. You know, a lot of people respond when I try to do something fun. Like, instead of permabrigging traitors instantly, listen to their story, double check on it, listen to witnesses, gather evidence, even pretend to believe it! Once I actually was convinced that all evidence were planted to point to the wrong guy. I was wrong, but hell, that was fun figuring it all out together with the guy I mistakenly arrested. You know, investigations are really fun.
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Re: The Reality of Roleplay and Schizo-Policies

Post by Arete » #29425

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:We just need to cut down on people who want only to win. You know, a lot of people respond when I try to do something fun. Like, instead of permabrigging traitors instantly, listen to their story, double check on it, listen to witnesses, gather evidence, even pretend to believe it! Once I actually was convinced that all evidence were planted to point to the wrong guy. I was wrong, but hell, that was fun figuring it all out together with the guy I mistakenly arrested. You know, investigations are really fun.
Ideally, the server culture, programmed objectives, and OOC rules about which behaviors are unacceptable should all work together to make good roleplay a useful tool for achieving your win condition. People disregarding their win conditions can actually decrease the quality of the roleplay across the server when people decide to play special snowflake characters who have weird reasons for doing things that interfere with the kind of roleplay that everyone else comes to the server for.
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Re: The Reality of Roleplay and Schizo-Policies

Post by Incomptinence » #29426

Look a simpler "solution" would be to have a higher probability of extended. No one wins extended it is just what you want!
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Re: The Reality of Roleplay and Schizo-Policies

Post by Reimoo » #29450

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:We just need to cut down on people who want only to win. You know, a lot of people respond when I try to do something fun. Like, instead of permabrigging traitors instantly, listen to their story, double check on it, listen to witnesses, gather evidence, even pretend to believe it! Once I actually was convinced that all evidence were planted to point to the wrong guy. I was wrong, but hell, that was fun figuring it all out together with the guy I mistakenly arrested. You know, investigations are really fun.
Ideally, yeah, as security it's good to RP even with criminals and such. Unfortunately, the whodunnit game is kind of hard to do when there's multiple crime sprees going on at the same time. I've been accused of being a shitcurity HoS because I invested my time into doing a proper investigation for one crime, and as penalty I am forced to ignore the others. When I shift that duty to the detective he accuses me of shitcurity as well because he's a "freelance cop who don't need no HoS"

When you are lenient and sympathetic you get accused of shitcurity because you aren't doing enough. When you become heavy handed due to trying to handle every single cry of injustice at once they also accuse you as shitcurity. Can't win as a redshirt.
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Re: The Reality of Roleplay and Schizo-Policies

Post by cedarbridge » #29499

Hibbles wrote:Or maybe some days you're not in the mood to talk, cedar. I know in real life I don't talk to everybody I meet on the street, or even everybody I meet at work. Whether I'm just doing my job, walking something somewhere, or out on Sec patrol, I might stop to wave or say hi, but that's not like the be-all-and-end-all of RP stuff.
Security not speaking at all in arrest proceedure, at the time of the arrest or in the brig.
Research staff ignoring the RD entirely and simply not responding.
etc
etc

Its one thing not to be social. Its another thing to be senselessly mute.
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Re: The Reality of Roleplay and Schizo-Policies

Post by Scott » #29563

Reimoo wrote:
Lo6a4evskiy wrote:We just need to cut down on people who want only to win. You know, a lot of people respond when I try to do something fun. Like, instead of permabrigging traitors instantly, listen to their story, double check on it, listen to witnesses, gather evidence, even pretend to believe it! Once I actually was convinced that all evidence were planted to point to the wrong guy. I was wrong, but hell, that was fun figuring it all out together with the guy I mistakenly arrested. You know, investigations are really fun.
Ideally, yeah, as security it's good to RP even with criminals and such. Unfortunately, the whodunnit game is kind of hard to do when there's multiple crime sprees going on at the same time. I've been accused of being a shitcurity HoS because I invested my time into doing a proper investigation for one crime, and as penalty I am forced to ignore the others. When I shift that duty to the detective he accuses me of shitcurity as well because he's a "freelance cop who don't need no HoS"

When you are lenient and sympathetic you get accused of shitcurity because you aren't doing enough. When you become heavy handed due to trying to handle every single cry of injustice at once they also accuse you as shitcurity. Can't win as a redshirt.
Trust is a weakness.
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Re: The Reality of Roleplay and Schizo-Policies

Post by Mastigos » #29571

Incomptinence wrote:Look a simpler "solution" would be to have a higher probability of extended. No one wins extended it is just what you want!
Extended is more chaotic and destructive than Rev, Cult, DA and Nuke Ops put together. Extended is hell.
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Re: The Reality of Roleplay and Schizo-Policies

Post by Incomptinence » #29603

Well if that is what you get without play to win interactions (not to say sec is not still running around like rabid rabbits), then that is what the server population has to offer you.

The server pop could get used to more extended rounds, it would be less ambitious than what is wanted here and I can still barely believe it.
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Re: The Reality of Roleplay and Schizo-Policies

Post by Antimattercarp » #29782

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:
Skorvold wrote:We should leave Sybil as it is and gear Server 2 as a more RP heavy server by rules. I don't know of any other community that has done this and I think it would be a great way to handle the current population and behavioral issues.
Russian SS13 community has done that. They had/have like 3 servers with different rules, maps, codes, admins, players.

Let's just say there's a reason I'm not playing there.
I am liking this Idea, I notice people arguing that we do not have the pop for doing something like this but we can handle this like the corporate world does: How about we go over to urist and offer to throw them on our website or something similar?
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Re: The Reality of Roleplay and Schizo-Policies

Post by CreationPro » #29788

Wanna know how the server Lo6a told you about winded up?

The community fell apart. Multiple times. A fuckload of times. Admins constantly joining and quitting.

Shit ain't fun and did not go well.
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<Ikarrus> blow the admins
trytryagain66 wrote: I accidently axed a guy said I was sorry to him, then he punched me so I axed his head off.
Hibbles wrote:Man, I love CP. I wish we had more CP on the server.
Antonkr wrote:<antonkr> tfw you will never lick hg|works delicious sexy mustache
<antonkr> ;_;
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