Breaking into rooms, stirring discontent, both NOW BANNABLE

[Oldman Robustin]

Bottom post of the previous page:

>Fresh round
>You assistant now
>Type in "RIOT!" then run off to see if something inspires you

*BWOINK*

Stickymayhem: Don't do that, it might inspire greytiding, greytiding is illegal now
Me: ...

>See conference room
>Get inspiration
>Break in and steal carpet
>Announce to others that we're going to carpet the bridge
>False-wall into the bridge and begin removing tiles
>Myself and 2 others are killed in large explosions without further warning
>Bridge and conference room now have bomb-sized hull-breaches

Stickmayhem: I told you greytiding is against the rules.
Stickmayhem: This is a new policy, we all agreed that greytide is shit and needs to go

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not even sure I can string together a coherent, appropriate sentence for how unbelievably short-sighted and shitty this is.

There has always been a relatively clear line between Greytide Lite(TM) and Grieftide. I could accept previous crackdowns against greytide since they were at least rational, breaking into the brig FNR can be frustrating as security, stealing critical equipment and then disappearing into maintenance is really dickish, disabling power in an area is a level of hostility you should only expect from antags...

But this? PLAY NICE, DONT SAY REBELLIOUS THINGS, DONT BREAK ANYTHING, DONT TOUCH ANYTHING WITHOUT PERMISSION, DONT MOVE CARPET, DONT ALTER THE STATION, DON'T ENTER UNAUTHORIZED AREAS, ETC... is beyond the pale of reason. Which team of fucking mental athletes on the adminbus determined that this was the best balance for tgstation without consulting or informing a single member of the actual fucking community?

Between this and the feedback thread incident, I'm rapidly losing faith in the ability for admins, coders, moderators, etc. to self-police. Every other decision I've seen come down the pipe lately look like someone took a random spin on the wheel of "LETS FUCK UP SHIT THAT PERFECTLY FINE BEFORE".

I'll also preempt the shittiest most cliched excuse I've heard for greytide crackdowns. I've probably played security more than anyone responsible for making this awful decision. When greytide became grieftide, I agree, it was a detriment to the ground... but I actually ENJOY security roles more when I get some variety in my work. Between hunting grizzled murderers lurking in maint, I actually HAVE FUN(TM) busting low level offenders who aren't going to try and kill me when I make an arrest. If a greyshirt is trying to dodge security after stealing a monkey from genetics, I'm going to "EXPERIENCE POSITIVE FEELINGS"(C) chasing him down and catch him. It breaks up the monotony of so many rounds where you can go 30 minutes without getting a report of actual hostile, criminal activity.

I mean is it even that hard to maintain a common sense policy on this, or are we just going to throw logic out the fucking window and ban all crime as GREYTIDE? (WHICH UNLIKE THE NAME IMPLIES, APPARENTLY EXISTS IN A BLACK AND WHITE UNIVERSE WHERE TIDING FOR BRIG GEAR AND TIDING FOR CARPET ARE SEEN AS EQUALS)

Low-level crimes are part of SS13's lifeblood and it makes my round on both sides of the conflict more enjoyable. I am not going to have fun as assistant or security if all crimes are now bannable by admins and I'm left for changelings alone to create an interesting 90-minute round for me. Please exercise some common sense, the mere fact that bridge was fucking blown up to punish us indicates that the people enforcing this rule could use a refresher on it.

For posterity, this is now the punishment for stealing carpet on SS13, this reeks of rational decision making and an educate change in policy based on consensus between players and administrators:

[Oldman Robustin]

I wasn't in the round, I haven't even really played for a few days, but it is not a stretch to hear RIOT! RIOT! CHAOS AND MAYHEM, and then a mass of assistants breaking into the bridge, as the same old shit. Something as small as transporting carpet can escalate fast -- oh look! It did!

If you were paying attention to the thread you'd know I didn't even shout that stuff over radio.

You weren't in the round and you clearly aren't reading what actually happened, so it looks like I was right, you're a downright professional when it comes to talking out of your ass.

[Oldman Robustin]

I wasn't in the round, I haven't even really played for a few days, but it is not a stretch to hear RIOT! RIOT! CHAOS AND MAYHEM, and then a mass of assistants breaking into the bridge, as the same old shit. Something as small as transporting carpet can escalate fast -- oh look! It did!

If you were paying attention to the thread you'd know I didn't even shout that stuff over radio.

You weren't in the round and you clearly aren't reading what actually happened, so it looks like I was right, you're a downright professional when it comes to talking out of your ass.

Can you stop bringing up carpet, CJS? I think we've established that it was not the issue.

Since the issue is largely "what is greytiding" and there are several admins here who think that breaking into the bridge to relocate carpet constitutes bannable greytiding, I think its still relevant to the issue.

[Lo6a4evskiy]

It's not, you just use it as a shitty excuse to change the topic from you screaming "RIOT" every round. Every time you're being called on that one you just go "OH BUT WE MOVED CARPT"

Like, you weren't even BWOINKED about that, but for a different matter. How is it relevant?

[Stickymayhem]

Inspiring riots without cause is shitty. He got two assistants to break in with him, and this was immediately after I warned him not to encourage people to do stupid things.

Picking up some carpet and then continuing your behaviour as if the wool rug has magical anti-admin fibres is plain retarded. I sincerely regret clouding the issue with exasperated bombs, but my stupidity should cover for his.

I know greytide. That was greytide. Next time I'll just toss out greybans until you stop. So just stop now.

[Kuraudo]

Inspiring riots without cause is shitty. He got two assistants to break in with him, and this was immediately after I warned him not to encourage people to do stupid things.

Picking up some carpet and then continuing your behaviour as if the wool rug has magical anti-admin fibres is plain retarded. I sincerely regret clouding the issue with exasperated bombs, but my stupidity should cover for his.

I know greytide. That was greytide. Next time I'll just toss out greybans until you stop. So just stop now.

As if you can brainwash people through a 2D multiplayer space game to force them to break rules.
You always have the freedom not to. People shouting a gimmical "NO SEC NO RULES" or "RIOT", are not pulling any strings over other people's actions. You decided to break into the Brig after hearing that ? You're the one to blame. You're accountable to your actions.

As a librarian, in another TG-based server, i wrote i book explaining that the banks are using Nanotrasen as a milk cow to generate cash through loans and debt. I gave the book to read to many people and it created some sort of mini-revolution, people got in the bridge and killed the Captain.
All i did i writing a book. Do i deserve bluespace artillery for that ? Personnal responsibility is a key concept to take into consideration when you punish people.

[Stickymayhem]

By Oldman's own admission he is an influential presence on the server, in-game and otherwise. Someone like that attempting to incite people into doing stupid shit is more likely to succeed, and in this case he did. Some of the other greys present followed his lead in smashing into a highly secure area and tearing the tiles up.

These greys did not escape punishment as I heavy-handedly removed all three directly involved, but they wouldn't have caused shit without oldman starting it.

Oldman, despite this misleading thread title, did not get banned or even threatened with a ban. He ignored a warning to stop and got gibbed for it. I then repaired the bridge. I was stupid but stopping the three of them from continuing to be assholes after a specific and direct warning from an admin was entirely acceptable as SoS already stated.

[paprika]

I doubt the singular action influenced oldman getting banned so much as his extensive history of doing shit like this. Sure, maybe it didn't cause a shitstorm ingame this time, but it has the 50 other times he's done it. He was likely also told to stop doing it after the other times. I dunno, could be wrong.

[firecage]

Well, Oldman does kinda have a point, since attempted B&E is adminwarnable..

[Malkevin]

Hey idiot admins: The guy who runs the server and makes the rules just told you "What oldman did is allowed. The admin response was so terrible I temporarily deadminned him over it"

So if you disagree with that, you're enforcing rules that the GUY WHO MAKES THE RULES SAID DO NOT EXIST! It's pretty fun to see even after scaredy's comment that people are still trying to say Oldman did something wrong.

TLDR: Anyone who thinks any OOC punishment should have happened is at odds with the actual rules of the server, as set by the owner of the server.

Actually TLE wrote the rules before disappearing abruptly after his second coming, and given that he shut the website down and locked the forum with no forewarning... I'm assuming much drama was involved to cause that.

SoS unfortunately has a reputation for being out of touch with the serverbase and also has a reputation of being a grey tiding shitler when he does play.


----------------
Now back to the topic.

So round starts, Oldman claims to have only said "RIOT" once, but as we see below...

[17:58:13]SAY: Oldman Robustin/ForcefulCJS : RIOT
[17:58:13]SAY: Oldman Robustin/ForcefulCJS : RIOT
[17:58:20]SAY: Oldman Robustin/ForcefulCJS : SPREAD CHAOS AND MAYHEM

Is a complete lie. How nice of Oldman to let us know straight away that he can't be trusted, and let us know he's a complete moron as he's been around long enough to know that logs exist and are easily checked!

Whether he said this over the radio or in local Say is completely irrelevant - he did it at round start, presumably in assistant storage with a bunch of other greyshirts in ear shot.

Sticky quite rightly tells Oldman to cut that shit out.
Oldman, instead of being sensible and going "Yeah, maybe I shouldn't rile up the monkey cage", on the other hand decides to be an insolent tool and ignore the warning.
He then breaks into the Head's Meeting room and steals the carpet.
He then announces, over the radio, for others to join him in breaking into the bridge and ripping it up to lay carpet.

---------------------------

Now if Sticky hadn't had been a complete retard and gone way over the top and blown the bridge up (which no doubt caused far more problems than a little B&E and vandalism), based on my prior experiences and knowledge of the game and player base, this is probably how things would have likely turned out.

Security would attempt to arrest the three of you for the following crimes:
- 2 counts of Major B&E
- 2 counts of Major Trespass
- 2 counts of Vandalism.
- and Inciting a Riot / Rioting respectively (making announcements to invite others to break the law is what rioting is)

This is enough for a straight up permabrigging

Security would attempt to do their jobs and arrest you, no doubt the three of you will resist - probably violently.
Arresting three people at the same time is a difficult task unless Sec strikes as an organised force (a clown will make everyone laugh before this happens), so we'd expect atleast one of you to escape in the chaos.

What will then happen is that the two of you will cry over the general channel with shouts of SHITCURRITY, and how you were just having a bit of fun, and how its such an injustice that you've been arrested. (And as we can see by Oldman's spergic whining in the OP we know this would have definitely happened)
Security might be smart and snatch your headsets but the damage is done, and the remaining fugitive is still free and able to spout dribble over the radio and incite more fucktools to riot.

The brig will then have a sea of greyshirted smacktards (who literally have nothing better to do) banging on the door and making a nuisance.
Security will get edgy, the greys will get bolder - something will happen, something will trigger a full scale riot.
Harm will happen, the AI will get involved - it will always take the option that fucks over security the most.

The entire round will be fucked, the shuttle will be called when everyone's finally had enough.
OOC will be full of the usual retards claiming security was awful and shit, most of security will wonder why they bother playing the fucking job in the first place and remove it from their preferences.

-----------------------------

Now I know some of you are going to claim the above is wild blind speculation, and speculative though it may be it is neither wild nor blind - I have personally witnessed the above chain of events leading the same shit storm so many god damn times over the last three years it is unbelievable.

Because things can escalate so quickly and to such an extent, that is why greytiding is and should be heavily restricted.
Most of the player base are at that age where they form cliques and attempt to be the biggest dicks possible to the other cliques; so giving them an excuse to be assholes and not expecting them to act like assholes is akin to tossing a bag of loaded guns into the monkey cage and not expecting them to turn into Detroit.



----------------------------
Onto Sticky:
Blue space arty was the completely wrong thing to do, it caused more chaos and disruption and station damage than the three of them did - though such a heavy handed response probably did avoid the above shitstorm.

There are other, far more subtle admin buttons.
Like the Teleport to Prison verb - which teleports the player to an inescapable cell on the centcom z level
Or the get-mob/get-key verbs - which will teleport the player to you, useful when combined with aghosting over space or the main plasma tank.
Or var-edit their reagent datum - add a shit ton of hellwater and watch as they spontaneously combust in an inextinguishable fire.

[Steelpoint]

All I'll say is that, in my opinion, what Malkevin said regarding the expected course of events had Sticky not intervened is very much what would have happened.

Because its happened to me.

[lumipharon]

Pretty much. Regardless of your intentions, if you don't make it very clear to people that you're doing some harmless redecorating (which ideally would involve asking the AI to let you in as opposed to B&E), what is anyone supposed to think, when they see three greys breaking into the bridge and taking out all the tiles?

[Stickymayhem]

Every part if Malkevins post is absolutely right in my opinion.

[Antonkr]

Malkevin made a really good point, and summed it up better then I could have.
I would have banned for greytiding with roundstart "RIOT" on sight.

[UtterNewbie]

You forgot the part where they would ahelp that sec is permabrigging them for no reason.

[Stickymayhem]

You forgot the part where they would ahelp that sec is permabrigging them for no reason.

That's my favorite part.

Also, because people still don't seem to get it : OLDMAN DID NOT GET BANNED, THREATENED WITH A BAN OR ANY OTHER KIND OF OOC PUNISHMENT.

This entire hissy fit he kicked up was over being gibbed

[bandit]

You forgot the part where they would ahelp that sec is permabrigging them for no reason.

you also forgot the part where security will thus have to deal with chain-BWOINK!s as the grays continue to gray

[Oldman Robustin]

It's not, you just use it as a shitty excuse to change the topic from you screaming "RIOT" every round. Every time you're being called on that one you just go "OH BUT WE MOVED CARPT"

Like, you weren't even BWOINKED about that, but for a different matter. How is it relevant?

I was BWOINKED for saying RIOT, I was gibbed while trying to smuggle carpet onto the bridge.

Both are more than relevant since admins here have argued that both should be bannable.

Screaming stupid shit at the beginning of round as greyshirts was practically a tradition for me for a few months, but like 80% of radio chatter, people knew not to take it seriously.

OH MAN OLDMAN ROBUSTIN SAID "NO CAPTAIN, NO RULES" AT ROUNDSTART. SURELY I MUST ANSWER THIS NOBLE CALL BY WELDERBOMBING THE BRIG AND SLIPMURDERING THE HEAD OF SECURITY, ONLY BANNING OLDMAN ROBUSTIN COULD CURE MY IRRESISTIBLE URGE TO FOLLOW HIS EVERY RADIO COMMENT.

[Oldman Robustin]

You forgot the part where they would ahelp that sec is permabrigging them for no reason.

you also forgot the part where security will thus have to deal with chain-BWOINK!s as the grays continue to gray

I've broken a thousand tides and never had to deal with BWOINK for even perma'ing certain greyshitters.

Meanwhile I've had to deal with BWOINKS (and warnings) for executing hostile traitors without captain's permission.

I've been bwoinked for almost everything imaginable but if you honestly think admins are going to intervene for security brigging a greytider you're delusional. The only way you'll get bwoinked is if the greytider lies about the circumstances of his arrest (or you did something super shitty like perma someone for hacking into EVA) in which case the greytider will catch a ban himself for ban-baiting.

[Oldman Robustin]

As for Malkevin's post, he started off on the right track and then fell into the same cesspool of shitty slippery slope logic that other admins love to use.

Somewhere between "Oldman catches a heavy brig sentence for breaking into the bridge" and "A SEA OF GREYSHIRTS ATTACK THE BRIG TO FREE HIM" the logic went to complete and utter shit.

I'll just point out:

1) I never lied, I just forgot about the chaos and mayhem line. I say stupid shit 90% of the rounds I spawn as assistant, my old favorite being "NO CAPTAIN, NO RULES". Nobody ever takes it seriously beyond parroting each other on radio for 30 seconds before getting bored and moving on. I'd also like to re-emphasize that this was done in LOCAL SAY chat and nothing provocative was broadcasted on the radio.

2) As someone who's been brigged several hundreds times for both real and imaginary crimes, I can honestly say that people have come to break me out about .04% of those instances. A given crew member is about 1000% more likely to laugh at my cries on radio than even make the most half-hearted effort to see if my complaints are honest and sincere. I rarely bitch on radio once I've been brigged anyway, nobody smart ever does since it just multiplies your sentence. Only times I might is if I've honestly been brigged for someone else's crime or if I'm being brigged on suspicion and hearsay instead of evidence. I save my best "Spergy whining" for OOC after a round has ended.

3) Assuming violent resistance from me. I've survived more attempts at permabanning than probably any player in this server's history. I know a half-dozen admins who would permaban me at the drop of a hat (Props to Brotemis for threatening a permaban that time I forgot to turn down the PA). I play well within the server rules these days and it's stupid for you to assume I would act violently against security when I know there are admins lusting for me attack an officer while not being antag.

[paprika]

>I never lied
>"I SAID RIOT ONCE!"
>Said it twice and an additional line
>Conveniently forgot

No you were lying. You're a liar. A big phony.

[miggles]

thats semen tactics

[bandit]

I've been bwoinked for almost everything imaginable but if you honestly think admins are going to intervene for security brigging a greytider you're delusional. The only way you'll get bwoinked is if the greytider lies about the circumstances of his arrest (or you did something super shitty like perma someone for hacking into EVA) in which case the greytider will catch a ban himself for ban-baiting.

beep boop bullshit detected

http://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1372

[Murazor]

Security might be smart and snatch your headsets but the damage is done, and the remaining fugitive is still free and able to spout dribble over the radio and incite more fucktools to riot.

The brig will then have a sea of greyshirted smacktards (who literally have nothing better to do) banging on the door and making a nuisance.
Security will get edgy, the greys will get bolder - something will happen, something will trigger a full scale riot.
Harm will happen, the AI will get involved - it will always take the option that fucks over security the most.

This is why policy allows for you to shoot to kill on greytiding faggots. Which is why I don't understand why the admins have so many problems with them. Just encourage sec to use their right to murder them. Also, as the HoP during the round that the bridge blew up, I would have sooner killed Oldman and crew myself rather then rely on admin intervention to solve what was otherwise a common B&E

[Murazor]

I've been bwoinked for almost everything imaginable but if you honestly think admins are going to intervene for security brigging a greytider you're delusional. The only way you'll get bwoinked is if the greytider lies about the circumstances of his arrest (or you did something super shitty like perma someone for hacking into EVA) in which case the greytider will catch a ban himself for ban-baiting.

beep boop bullshit detected

http://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1372

Perhaps you should read what HBL said. It was a mistake on the admins part, and the note has been removed.

[bandit]

I've been bwoinked for almost everything imaginable but if you honestly think admins are going to intervene for security brigging a greytider you're delusional. The only way you'll get bwoinked is if the greytider lies about the circumstances of his arrest (or you did something super shitty like perma someone for hacking into EVA) in which case the greytider will catch a ban himself for ban-baiting.

beep boop bullshit detected

http://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1372

Perhaps you should read what HBL said. It was a mistake on the admins part, and the note has been removed.

That isn't the point. The point is you can totally get bwoinked for perma-ing the gray tide.

[elyina]

If someone adminhelps they are being permabrigged, how do you suggest we get the full story on the situation without asking you if we didn't personally witness it go down? All you have to do is say "oh they did this and this". If it turns out the assistant was full of shit they are going to be in trouble for ban baiting anyway. I'm tired of seeing "bwoink" thrown around like some kind of stupid buzzword.

[QuartzCrystal]

I'm tired of seeing "bwoink" thrown around like some kind of stupid buzzword.

A thousand times this.

I'll admin-PM people who are just witnesses to incidents. Being bwoinked shouldn't be seen as "OMG I'M IN TROUBLE" but rather "Omg, the admins are asking me to help clarify something for them."

[bandit]

I'm tired of seeing "bwoink" thrown around like some kind of stupid buzzword.

A thousand times this.

I'll admin-PM people who are just witnesses to incidents. Being bwoinked shouldn't be seen as "OMG I'M IN TROUBLE" but rather "Omg, the admins are asking me to help clarify something for them."

The fact remains that people mostly get BWOINK!ed when they are in trouble, and that it forces you to attend to an adminhelp when shit is going on in-game that might be legitimately stressful and/or urgent. You can say that you're busy, but it's a crapshoot as to whether the admin at that point will view this as being rude, and sometimes you don't even have time for that.

The fact also remains that I doubt people get as readily BWOINK!ed for gray tide.

[elyina]

I'm tired of seeing "bwoink" thrown around like some kind of stupid buzzword.

A thousand times this.

I'll admin-PM people who are just witnesses to incidents. Being bwoinked shouldn't be seen as "OMG I'M IN TROUBLE" but rather "Omg, the admins are asking me to help clarify something for them."

The fact remains that people mostly get BWOINK!ed when they are in trouble, and that it forces you to attend to an adminhelp when shit is going on in-game that might be legitimately stressful and/or urgent. You can say that you're busy, but it's a crapshoot as to whether the admin at that point will view this as being rude, and sometimes you don't even have time for that.

The fact also remains that I doubt people get as readily BWOINK!ed for gray tide.

So what do you suggest? Should we read your mind instead? This is not really a fault of admins or anyone else for that matter. If you need a minute to respond, then just say so. I also have to say in the shit load of rounds I've played as security on tgstation, I have never encountered this problem of an admin being impatient with me or interpreting me as rude, even before I became an admin. They politely ask me why I arrested this person, I politely explain it to them and they leave me be, sometimes issuing a ban baiting ban on the person that adminhelped it.

I pay special attention to the brig when adminning, and adminpm far more greytiders than "shitcurity", so that's just not true.

[Malkevin]

Congrats Elyina, you're probably not part of the problem.

A lot of the problem with admin-pms is the phrasing, granted its hard to not come across as like you're attacking in text medium especially when you consider that:
-Admin-pms have a stigma that if you get one you're in the shit.
-Admin-pms are accompanied by a really loud sudden noise that makes your heart jump - thats because the sudden shock triggers a release of adrenaline which in turn triggers the fight or flight response, and as you can't run away from an admin you'll respond as any cornered animal will do: fight back.

Couple the above with the fact if you've just permaed someone you probably are already pumped up and on edge and thats why admin-pms are such a burden on security.
Admin-pm: "Why did you perma that guy?" is always going to come across as an attack on security's decision,


What I'd suggest you do is assume that a person in perma is most likely in there for a good reason and grill them first.
And then instead of going straight for the jugular just admin-pm something simple and friendly like "Hi" or "Hello"

Dont make feel like they're being bollocked if that isnt your intention.

[imblyings]

>and grill them first.

players won't be able to figure that out unless admins specifically state, 'oh hey harmbaton mclasershit, I asked greyshit mcnonantag first why he got permad and I want to ask you a few things about it too'

[Lo6a4evskiy]

Only people who know that they've done something that might get them in trouble would be afraid of bwoinks.

[leibniz]

...

We have to investigate people being removed from the round.
I agree that the sound is bad. Lots of the sounds we use are annoying and loud.

[Lo6a4evskiy]

It's meant to bring attention. It does the job.

Gee, first sec doesn't get gloves because "friendly image" and now bwoink sound is 2spooky for poor kids to handle?

[Malkevin]

It reminds me of the Incoming Call noise my headset would make when I worked in a call centre, that shit will trigger my PTSD

[bandit]

So what do you suggest? Should we read your mind instead? This is not really a fault of admins or anyone else for that matter. If you need a minute to respond, then just say so. I also have to say in the shit load of rounds I've played as security on tgstation, I have never encountered this problem of an admin being impatient with me or interpreting me as rude, even before I became an admin. They politely ask me why I arrested this person, I politely explain it to them and they leave me be, sometimes issuing a ban baiting ban on the person that adminhelped it.

I pay special attention to the brig when adminning, and adminpm far more greytiders than "shitcurity", so that's just not true.

I'm thinking of the guy who got BWOINK!ed for fucking up (legitimately fucking up) as a wizard apprentice while dozens of people were chasing him, telling the admin that he's kind of busy, and then the admin using it as an excuse to be like "you clearly care more about your round than fucking up."

[Saegrimr]

The fact also remains that I doubt people get as readily BWOINK!ed for gray tide.

You'd be surprised, most anything I ask is just for sec's side of the story when it comes to I GOT PERMA'D WITH RAISINS, check locally available attack logs and see if they match up and 9 times out of 10 tell the dude in perma why toolboxing the cops and then screaming shitcurity all the way to the brig is crap while they sit there and boil.

I also have to say in the shit load of rounds I've played as security on tgstation, I have never encountered this problem of an admin being impatient with me or interpreting me as rude, even before I became an admin.

This, admins aren't safe from the "bwoink" either. I got asked a week ago why I was putting a mime name "CONSTANTLY SCREAMS" into a straightjacket and muzzle for spamming the *scream emote.

Much to my dismay, muzzle doesn't do shit for *scream, so I left him in perma to cool off and check back every couple minutes to see if he was still doing it.

Found out later he got renamed to "le epic screaming maymay", clever.

[Cipher3]

Only people who know that they've done something that might get them in trouble would be afraid of bwoinks.

This same logic can be used to remove every right to personal privacy. Congratulations.

[Lo6a4evskiy]

...except it has nothing to do with the problem in question?

[bandit]

The fact also remains that I doubt people get as readily BWOINK!ed for gray tide.

You'd be surprised, most anything I ask is just for sec's side of the story when it comes to I GOT PERMA'D WITH RAISINS, check locally available attack logs and see if they match up and 9 times out of 10 tell the dude in perma why toolboxing the cops and then screaming shitcurity all the way to the brig is crap while they sit there and boil.[/quote]

Yeah you were the guy who handled that ahelp and this is indeed what happened; however, still a BWOINK.

However, there is also this:http://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1623

[Cipher3]

Only people who know that they've done something that might get them in trouble would be afraid of bwoinks.

This same logic can be used to remove every right to personal privacy. Congratulations.

Rather, what Lo6a said would be more or less true IF:
1. Admins were infallible, omniscient, and pure, never-failing in judgement.
2. People didn't have to address the bwoinks while potentially still in the middle of a high-stress situation.
3. Everyone was okay spending time explaining every last one of their actions for everything when the bwoink only happened because someone was whining when they really had no good reason to.

[Hibbles]

If you're ever in a situation where you can't address an admin at the moment for any reason, ask the admin to be moved to safety for the duration and they will. So you can talk, or handle the IRL thing, or whatever. The admin prison block works better for that then actually like, putting people there to punish them. It's on the centcom z-level, unassailable, and unbreakable. Afterwards, you can be sent back.

[Timbrewolf]

It's all about phrasing. I wouldn't start by saying "Hi" because it sounds kinda smarmy in the context of HEY LOOK I JUST SENT YOU THIS BIG BLOCK OF RED TEXT AND A SOUND EFFECT just to say hello.

"Can you tell me what happened between you and X" is usually a pretty neutral opener and asks for their version of the whole story.
vs
"Why did you kill so-and-so" is already implying that you think they did something wrong and they need to justify it.

[Psyentific]

It's all about phrasing. I wouldn't start by saying "Hi" because it sounds kinda smarmy in the context of HEY LOOK I JUST SENT YOU THIS BIG BLOCK OF RED TEXT AND A SOUND EFFECT just to say hello.

"Can you tell me what happened between you and X" is usually a pretty neutral opener and asks for their version of the whole story.
vs
"Why did you kill so-and-so" is already implying that you think they did something wrong and they need to justify it.

Do you have a bunch of stuff like that written down in the secret clubhouse? Because you should.

[Timbrewolf]

No I'm just a font of aged wisdom :^)

[Lo6a4evskiy]

Only people who know that they've done something that might get them in trouble would be afraid of bwoinks.

This same logic can be used to remove every right to personal privacy. Congratulations.

Rather, what Lo6a said would be more or less true IF:
1. Admins were infallible, omniscient, and pure, never-failing in judgement.
2. People didn't have to address the bwoinks while potentially still in the middle of a high-stress situation.
3. Everyone was okay spending time explaining every last one of their actions for everything when the bwoink only happened because someone was whining when they really had no good reason to.

The first one is a poor reason to fear bwoinks. If you think everything you've done is perfectly okay, you will be able to defend your point. If that particular admin for whatever reason doesn't agree (though that's already an indication that you were close to crossing the line if not crossed it), you either will be able to keep defending your point on forums or other admins also do not agree with you and you're just wrong.

The second one is ridiculous. The guy is flying above you and can see if you're in combat or whatever. Typing "just a second please" doesn't take too long and chances are admin will bwoink you again if the he thinks you're silent on purpose before taking any other action.

The third one is the personal preference. I mean, come on.

If the alternative is "don't investigate and just assume player is in the right because of the job he has", then the choice seems pretty easy to me.

[cedarbridge]

#3 would solve itself if we just banned people for doing it as the banbaiting shitlers they are.

[Stickymayhem]

This thread is so insanely off topic at this point.

Take these to policy discussion or something.

[paprika]

It's all about phrasing. I wouldn't start by saying "Hi" because it sounds kinda smarmy in the context of HEY LOOK I JUST SENT YOU THIS BIG BLOCK OF RED TEXT AND A SOUND EFFECT just to say hello.

You should never start an admin PM with 'hi' and try to make it a casual conversation just get to the fucking point it's so condescending when you try to make it a chris hanson interview especially when the person might be innocent

Please don't take this post as paprika saying internet predators are innocent

[omnitricks]

No fun allowed. Rule 0 everything to catch players of guard eventhough they aren't doing anything against the rules just because I don't agree with the way you play.

[Erisian]

It's all about phrasing. I wouldn't start by saying "Hi" because it sounds kinda smarmy in the context of HEY LOOK I JUST SENT YOU THIS BIG BLOCK OF RED TEXT AND A SOUND EFFECT just to say hello.

You should never start an admin PM with 'hi' and try to make it a casual conversation just get to the fucking point it's so condescending when you try to make it a chris hanson interview especially when the person might be innocent

Please don't take this post as paprika saying internet predators are innocent

I got that recently from an admin and it wasn't so bad. As a captain I fucked up and helped a traitor kill his target in exchange for him claiming he'd help us, and figured a perma-gulaged prisoner who was possibly a traitor was a fair deal. I fucked up big time, but I explained it all to the admins and it was fine. I forget who exactly the admin I spoke to was, but it wasn't bad. CentComm just send a deathsquad to take me, I came in willingly, and they executed me. I could've caught a ban for that kinda fuck up. Instead, the admins were pretty chill and just made a neat IC way to punish me. I got the point that I fucked up, got taken outta the round, and things went smoothly. We've got so many people saying admins are dicks, but if they start off with "hi" or try to be casual we jump on them for that too? Cut them some slack here, if they go all business it's dickery or cold, but too nice and it's condescending now? They've got people running all over, adminhelping every little thing, then they have to ask this guy and that guy shit and figure out what went on. It can be a little hectic, especially in rounds with a large population or lots of shit going down.