Space Law needs to be removed.

[callanrockslol]

We are at the point where people following are liable to get banned for following it, its been a shitty guideline from the start and really hasn't helped attitudes towards when officer mcdumbass spends 5 minutes stripping and imprisoning someone for a 2 minute graffiti sentence.

It's a terrible guideline for new players in how to act as security and has never really been a good thing to begin with, either someone rewrite it or remove the whole thing already.

[cedarbridge]

We are at the point where people following are liable to get banned for following it, its been a shitty guideline from the start and really hasn't helped attitudes towards when officer mcdumbass spends 5 minutes stripping and imprisoning someone for a 2 minute graffiti sentence.

It's a terrible guideline for new players in how to act as security and has never really been a good thing to begin with, either someone rewrite it or remove the whole thing already.

This is hardly a constructive complaint. Space Law works perfectly well as it is. Your experience with a poor officer has nothing to do with space law or its application.

Also, in the sense that you're complaining about a set of guidelines given to establish functionally standardized brig times, you haven't provided an alternative. "Make it up as you go" will and often does piss off more brigees than not. Alternatively we could remove security and the brig so nobody ever has to be arrested for breaking non-existant law again.

[Timbrewolf]

Resisting arrest or leading on officer on a chase runs the clock. That 2 minute sentence for smashing a window can quickly turn into a 5-10minute sentence if you screw around. It also varies depending on what you broke into and how much work it'll take to fix. Le grand sabotage faec.

Some people are just fucking klutzes when it comes to getting the important crap out of someone's pockets and into the locker. Here's how you do:

*) You shouldn't have any weapons in your hands at all during this process. There's no need.
1) Drag your handcuffed buddy into the brig, drag him over the open security locker.
2) Remove belt, backpack, and empty pockets.
3) You don't need to change their fucking clothes into the orange jumpsuit.
4) You don't need to take away their PDA and headset unless they're screaming and yelling over the radio the whole time.
5) Drag friend to bed, cuff to bed (THIS IS TEMPORARY)
6) Go outside the cell, set the timer. This should start the countdown and lock the locker.
7) Go back into the cell, unbuckle your friend from the bed and remove the cuffs, picking them back up. DONT BE A PIECE OF SHIT WHO LEAVES PEOPLE BUCKLECUFFED.
8) If your friend decides to take this opportunity to attack you, now is your opportunity to beat them half to death and then add "Assaulting an officer" to their brig timer on the way out.

For bonus points have the warden watch your back during this whole process. Sometimes people get lucky and you might wind up disarmed, or someone you thought was just a random vandal could turn out to be a changeling or syndicate operative in diguise.

You should be able to do this whole thing in under a minute. Like, seriously. You only have to strip three things off of someone.

[Pandarsenic]

Don't forget to:
1) Take off his sunglasses or mask if he has one
2) Actually search his shit
3) Check in his box; check in his bible if he's chaplain
4) Use your flash if he gets uppity because if he disarms it, he can't use it against you - you have HUD glasses!

It's not rocket science.

[Saegrimr]

Don't forget to EMP his shirt, drag him over a banana, and pull his pen out of his PDA and prick him with it a couple times.

[miggles]

do you disagree with this form of brig procedure, saegrimr

[Saegrimr]

I was just being snarky. I tend to play "dumbcurity" unless they guy in question is being blatantly obvious about being a traitor.
Bag, pockets, sometimes don't check the box depending on how much trouble he was making me go through for the arrest.

[bandit]

4) You don't need to take away their PDA and headset unless they're screaming and yelling over the radio the whole time.

uplinks you fucking cluwne :^)

but yeah, no removing radio headset unless they are being shit

[miggles]

headsets can also be uplinks if you're a metagaming shithead at the start every round :^)

[Timbrewolf]

headsets can also be uplinks if you're a metagaming shithead at the start every round :^)

This.

Also if you have any reason to suspect he's a traitor with an uplink why the fuck are you putting him in a regular brig cell?

Reserve the ultra paranoid treatment for people who actually have done something to warrant it. Don't go all deep cavity search on every single person you arrest. If someone was committing something serious then Pandar's right, check the backpack and the box. Most of the people I'm always arresting are stupid little things like "So and so is running around punching everyone" or "This guy wandered into our department and wont leave". They're not exactly criminal masterminds.

On the flipside if you're actually a traitor with an uplink don't waste it trying to make a big scene breaking out of a timed brig cell. Wait for the clock to run up, calmly collect your things, and go back to doing what you're doing.

[Steelpoint]

Who exactly has been banned as of late for following space law to the letter anyway?

[Malkevin]

Got to admit, my sentences are either 5 minutes, 10 minutes, perma, or dragging off to add to my dead nigger storage on the gulag.
And I'm the guy that cared enough about Space Law to add a bunch of stuff to it.

[omnitricks]

Space Law is pretty much useless to the game because admins rather get their banboner on than allow officers to punish people ICly according to space law for IC issues.

[Steelpoint]

As I said, tell me who has been banned for following space law to the letter!?

I have never been banned for following space law, even back when I used to follow it nearly religiously. Sure you won't make many friends but that's beside the point.

[Timbrewolf]

Note: This page is merely a IC suggestion. It was voted for it to NOT become an official part of SS13. Administrators will only intervene when you are sentenced to grossly unfair times. If you get 3 minutes instead of 2, talk to the lawyer as it's considered an IC issue. A log of community votes can be found here.

Nobody ever seems to read this, despite it being prominently displayed against a red background at the top of the page.

At least once every time I play someone will inevitably adminhelp that they got brigged for too long. When I try to explain that, hey that sucks but you should be complaining to the HoS or Warden or Lawyer, it begins the tirade.

WOW SO A SEC OFFICER CAN JUST THROW ME IN THERE FOR WHATEVER FOR HOWEVER LONG NO WONDER /TG/ IS DYING FUCKING ADMIN BIAS LOVES SHITCURITY BLEEEHHGHHHH

[bandit]

Nobody ever seems to read this, despite it being prominently displayed against a red background at the top of the page.

At least once every time I play someone will inevitably adminhelp that they got brigged for too long. When I try to explain that, hey that sucks but you should be complaining to the HoS or Warden or Lawyer, it begins the tirade.

WOW SO A SEC OFFICER CAN JUST THROW ME IN THERE FOR WHATEVER FOR HOWEVER LONG NO WONDER /TG/ IS DYING FUCKING ADMIN BIAS LOVES SHITCURITY BLEEEHHGHHHH

Because the people who are complaining about space law are, by and large, the people who are salty they got arrested for legit crimes.

Personally I think Space Law is mostly fine. If anyone has specific complaints with it they would help their case a lot to BE SPECIFIC, because otherwise their "complaint" reads a lot like "I got dunked plz nerf" or "NO RULES FOR ANYONE SPESS ANARCHY 2555".

[QuartzCrystal]

When I play security and when I arrest someone for a minor crime, if they don't resist and just say "Fuck you caught me." I'll pretty much just search them (if code blue) and then let them on their way without brigging them.

[Raven776]

You don't need code blue to search someone for committing a crime.

You need code blue to search someone for not committing a crime.

[QuartzCrystal]

You don't need code blue to search someone for committing a crime.

You need code blue to search someone for not committing a crime.

Code green I go even more lax. I'm basically a lazy sec.

[Raven776]

You don't need code blue to search someone for committing a crime.

You need code blue to search someone for not committing a crime.

Code green I go even more lax. I'm basically a lazy sec.

That's usually the best attitude unless someone's setting off the PA, fuxxing with atmos, performing other large scale acts of round ending murder early off, or just straight murderboning.

[cedarbridge]

Note: This page is merely a IC suggestion. It was voted for it to NOT become an official part of SS13. Administrators will only intervene when you are sentenced to grossly unfair times. If you get 3 minutes instead of 2, talk to the lawyer as it's considered an IC issue. A log of community votes can be found here.

Nobody ever seems to read this, despite it being prominently displayed against a red background at the top of the page.

At least once every time I play someone will inevitably adminhelp that they got brigged for too long. When I try to explain that, hey that sucks but you should be complaining to the HoS or Warden or Lawyer, it begins the tirade.

WOW SO A SEC OFFICER CAN JUST THROW ME IN THERE FOR WHATEVER FOR HOWEVER LONG NO WONDER /TG/ IS DYING FUCKING ADMIN BIAS LOVES SHITCURITY BLEEEHHGHHHH

This is basically it.

If somebody arrests you, they're shitcurity.

If they get jumped by a pair of shitler assistants and get their baton stolen they're unrobust faggots.

There is no middle ground and the only way to win is the permabrig.

[Steelpoint]

Hence my signature.

A lot of people tend to take a very dim view of Security, and you just can't win. You just have to keep doing your job.

[callanrockslol]

Who exactly has been banned as of late for following space law to the letter anyway?

A number of people have been threatened on the forums as of late

Nobody ever seems to read this, despite it being prominently displayed against a red background at the top of the page.

At least once every time I play someone will inevitably adminhelp that they got brigged for too long. When I try to explain that, hey that sucks but you should be complaining to the HoS or Warden or Lawyer, it begins the tirade.

WOW SO A SEC OFFICER CAN JUST THROW ME IN THERE FOR WHATEVER FOR HOWEVER LONG NO WONDER /TG/ IS DYING FUCKING ADMIN BIAS LOVES SHITCURITY BLEEEHHGHHHH

Because the people who are complaining about space law are, by and large, the people who are salty they got arrested for legit crimes.

Personally I think Space Law is mostly fine. If anyone has specific complaints with it they would help their case a lot to BE SPECIFIC, because otherwise their "complaint" reads a lot like "I got dunked plz nerf" or "NO RULES FOR ANYONE SPESS ANARCHY 2555".

Nobody has ever read it, lots of people that don't brows the forum and spend their time in autistic"constructive" debates think space law is rules, it actually scares some people that I would suggest against the gospel that is spacelaw when I set brig timers occasionally, many players are unable to realize that you can think for yourself when it comes to things and like to follow the big text that tells them what to do and gives them validation that they are doing their job right.


I actually preferred it when security would beat your ass for committing crimes then stupidly try to fumble with cuffs while a naked clown wanders in and robs the place.

[bandit]

Nobody has ever read it, lots of people that don't brows the forum and spend their time in autistic"constructive" debates think space law is rules, it actually scares some people that I would suggest against the gospel that is spacelaw when I set brig timers occasionally, many players are unable to realize that you can think for yourself when it comes to things and like to follow the big text that tells them what to do and gives them validation that they are doing their job right.


I actually preferred it when security would beat your ass for committing crimes then stupidly try to fumble with cuffs while a naked clown wanders in and robs the place.

This is flawed for two reasons:

1. Given the high rate of BWOINK! by admins for perfectly legitimate briggings, it helps to have a document -- official or not -- to point to and say "I was just going by the book." The more you deviate or "think for yourself," the more you risk a ban.

2. Given the high rate of bitching about perfectly legitimate briggings by people who are being brigged, it helps to have a document to point to and assure them that their 2-minute brig timer is not a horrific sentence invented just for them / one of the four horsemen of shitcurity. Ideally it'd also be something for lawyers to refer to, but, well, lawyers.

[Saegrimr]

1. Given the high rate of BWOINK! by admins for perfectly legitimate briggings, it helps to have a document -- official or not -- to point to and say "I was just going by the book." The more you deviate or "think for yourself," the more you risk a ban.

Honestly I only ever see space law referred to when i'm asking why an officer is perma-ing the mime for having a hand tele.
"ITS A CAPITAL OFFENSE SO ITS PERMABRIG." Which I then need to remind him he should seek the warden or HoS before throwing people in perma.
My last one went something like this:

PM to secdude: 8 minutes is a bit much for B&E don't you think?
Reply from secdude: Fucker made me chase his ass for 10 minutes and screamed shitsec all the way to the brig.
PM to secdude: Fair enough, thank you.

Its not bad, but sec needs to realize they're not at the top of the chain of command, and the warden/HoS really need to step up their brig management game.

[Spacemanspark]

You seriously cry over a minute sentence in the brig?
http://80.244.78.90/wiki/index.php/Space_law
Check this version of Space Law, that HAS to be followed on Paradise.
Then come back and tell me that Space Law here is unfair.

[Lo6a4evskiy]

A number of people have been threatened on the forums as of late

Er, examples?

Also, your solution is to remove space law? That's fucking stupid.

If we remove space law people will bitch about any sentence longer than 10 seconds "because it's unfair". With space law you can shut shitlers up by telling them specific crimes from space law, at least.

You seriously cry over a minute sentence in the brig?
http://80.244.78.90/wiki/index.php/Space_law
Check this version of Space Law, that HAS to be followed on Paradise.
Then come back and tell me that Space Law here is unfair.

This is a really poor argument. You don't take into account length of rounds, rules, community, everything else that matters besides the time itself.

Also the fact that it could be poorly written in the first place.

[firecage]

Saegrimr, to be fair, sec has nearly as much authority as the warden and HoS. If the captain, HoS, or warden breaks the law, a sec officer can arrest them, and depending on the severity of the crime, demote them.

[bandit]

Saegrimr, to be fair, sec has nearly as much authority as the warden and HoS. If the captain, HoS, or warden breaks the law, a sec officer can arrest them, and depending on the severity of the crime, demote them.

Theoretically. In practice all hell will rain down if they use this power.

That said, I don't remember it ever being in the rules that security officers couldn't perma someone (who deserves perma, obviously) without HoS confirmation. I thought that was only for straight-up execution. Obviously in an ideal world security will be organized enough that it isn't an issue, but sometimes it's... not.

[Scott]

Many situations require you to just dump a guy in the permabrig because the temporary brigging cells aren't secure enough. Just tell the HoS that there's a guy that needs sentencing in the perma.

[cedarbridge]

Saegrimr, to be fair, sec has nearly as much authority as the warden and HoS. If the captain, HoS, or warden breaks the law, a sec officer can arrest them, and depending on the severity of the crime, demote them.

Theoretically. In practice all hell will rain down if they use this power.

That said, I don't remember it ever being in the rules that security officers couldn't perma someone (who deserves perma, obviously) without HoS confirmation. I thought that was only for straight-up execution. Obviously in an ideal world security will be organized enough that it isn't an issue, but sometimes it's... not.

Perma/Exectuion/Borging are all capital punishments. Borging/Perma are generally left to HoS/Warden descretion where actual execution is captain's privilege.

[Antimattercarp]

Saegrimr, to be fair, sec has nearly as much authority as the warden and HoS. If the captain, HoS, or warden breaks the law, a sec officer can arrest them, and depending on the severity of the crime, demote them.

Theoretically. In practice all hell will rain down if they use this power.

That said, I don't remember it ever being in the rules that security officers couldn't perma someone (who deserves perma, obviously) without HoS confirmation. I thought that was only for straight-up execution. Obviously in an ideal world security will be organized enough that it isn't an issue, but sometimes it's... not.

I have done it before, it creates a whole lot of issues both IC and OOC when you do it through. You have to ambush said target, and get the first word in over the radio and through an adminhelp and you have to do it in rapid succession and have a really good reason to do it and be able to fill the gap you just made or else everything descends into chaos.

[Void Slayer]

I know I have dunked the captain before for horrible behavior as a sec officer. I think he was executing and spacing people accused of minor crimes if I remember correctly.

I basically talked to the other heads of staff (CMO, CE and RD, No HoP or HoS on the station) and got their consent then took him down quickly in security. We had a public trial, I sent a message to centcom about it and the captain went and got a job as janitor after a 10 minute sentence.

Getting the other heads of staff to agree to a captain take down really changes the dynamics.


The most important things about space law as it exists are the clear line between perma/execution and minor sentences, releasing deprogrammed cultists/revs and the duty officers have to the welfare of those detained or imprisoned.

I think a more clear definition of when heavy sentences are allowed and who allows it would be good. 30 minutes in detention or a 2000 point gulag sentence are really long and take you out of the game for a long time.