[POLL] New Antagonist Policy

[TheWulfe]

Bottom post of the previous page:

In the interest of creating a slightly more RP friendly environment, I've decided to take a firm stance on some new antagonist policies.

Lately, I've been seeing the equivalent of cuban pete rounds. I'm seeing players try to dick over anyone and everyone as soon as they land an antagonist role. Particularly egregious are the survivor roles in wizard rounds - 'stay alive until the end' does not mean immediately gun down half the station.

From now on, murderbone behavior as an antagonist may result in permanent antagonist role bans. Players who are already permanently banned from antagonist roles who are placed in an antagonist role (such as being revved in a revolution round) who display this behavior may be issued a server ban.

So what constitutes unwanted behavior as an antagonist? The test I intend to use will be 'is this player trying to ruin the round for other players instead of trying to accomplish their objectives?'. The answer to this question for most of the people trying to argue about this lately is 'yes'. We've fallen a long way as a server and devolved into stupid, mindless griefing which was previously allowed under the rules, but will no longer be tolerated.

We recognize the opportunity for creative antagonist play and will not punish for such behavior. Creative antagonist play differs from murderboning in that the goal of such actions is to foster creative situations (including some murder) rather than rack up a bodycount as if the game were an FPS.

To the players reading this and wondering if they are the type of antag that I'm targetting for antag bans, the answer is likely 'no'. It is almost always obvious who needs an antag ban and who is exercising 'creative license' as an antagonist.

I wanted the playerbase's opinions on the new policy.

[Wyzack]

The reason people are so fed up with "Just seeing what happens," Is because we have a history of pushing shitty changes on a "trail basis" that never officially ends and then eventually people get tired of trying to change it. It is bullshit. Although given our recent sec sprite changes and this poll here it seems pretty clear that community opinion means staggeringly little.

[Riley]

I have mixed feelings on this, but from what I understand this is basically the 'Dante Smith/Rob Ust/etc amendment for excess Antag shittery'?

Here's an example of something I've done in the past, to help me understand better. I'm an AI that's been subverted/one-humaned by a traitor. I help them accomplish their objectives, the escape shuttle is about to come, they're cozy and safe in a pod of their own and they tell me I'm free to do whatever I want, or at least haven't outright forbid me from anything. So I head to Escape and fuck with the airlock safeties to make the doors eat nonhumans for laughs.

Is this now:

A. Not okay, period.
B. Acceptable, with a reason.
- B1. Such as 'the one human is telling me to do this, with their taking responsibility for my actions'.
- B2. Such as 'I'm just getting back at some human that's been bothering me all shift, and that 5 other nonhumans were using the same airlock and also got crushed to death at the same time was just a happy coincidence'.
C. Acceptable, so long as I'm not doing it every round.
D. Acceptable, so long as nobody's dying/failing to escape for it.
E. Acceptable, so long as I'm not also going overboard by bolting/shocking everything in addition to the airlock munching.

[Sum Ting Wong]

E probably.

[Timbrewolf]

SPOILER ALERT:

This isn't a democracy. I think votes are important and would prefer that we decided in ways that ran concurrent with what their results

But ultimately nobody has to. It's quite possible even the majority of voters can be wrong about things.

[Amelius]

SPOILER ALERT:

This isn't a democracy. I think votes are important and would prefer that we decided in ways that ran concurrent with what their results

But ultimately nobody has to. It's quite possible even the majority of voters can be wrong about things.

Then why is no one challenging the well-argued points? Yes, it's possible that the majority is wrong, but you haven't proved that we're wrong simply by saying so. If you really want to change people's minds, then explain.

[Timbrewolf]

I already said I don't like this change.

[cedarbridge]

SPOILER ALERT:

This isn't a democracy. I think votes are important and would prefer that we decided in ways that ran concurrent with what their results

But ultimately nobody has to. It's quite possible even the majority of voters can be wrong about things.

Then why is no one challenging the well-argued points? Yes, it's possible that the majority is wrong, but you haven't proved that we're wrong simply by saying so. If you really want to change people's minds, then explain.

Ironically, those points have been challenged and then instantly buried in the rush of more "OMG I HATE THIS CHANGE I'M TOTALLY LEAVING" posts that follow. That's what I thought was most amusing about you challenging me to "post in the thread and meet the complaints head-on" after I'd already posted in these threads at least twice and did so again after that. I was responded to exactly never. This isn't a debate. Its not a discussion. Its a shouting match.

[Incomptinence]

Which of your points would you like rebutted? The total blazing ignorance of the fact loyalists in rev can also disguise themselves perhaps even genetically? Your support of this on the proviso that antags initiating combat is unfair? Even though surprise needs to matter for this geriatric game to be engaging at all and the antag is usually outnumbered?

I enjoy the way you ignore this is basically just going to shift valid hunting into being a far more active force than antags themselves, like how newlings were more sport to be hunted than a threat.

[Redblaze3000]

If murderboning is banned, ban non sec valid hunting. Its only fair to the antag.

[Stickymayhem]

If murderboning is banned, ban non sec valid hunting. Its only fair to the antag.

Murderboning doesn't correspond to validhunting.

Banning murderbone is not a nerf to antag

[scaredofshadows]

The policy has been repealed.

[Wyzack]

Scaredy, you are a god damn saint for responding to the (generally unpleasent) feedback of the unwashed masses with levelheadedness and reason. Based server host, never change

[paprika]

We should really remove the stupid survivor shit anyway or at least restrict summon things to one summon per type if it was bad enough to cause this much of a shitstorm

[dezzmont]

I think this policy could be good if it was nailed down, but as is it needed a lot of work and would be less of a policy and more of a weird directive.

You should keep working on it.