How much is too much?

[Not-Dorsidarf]

Specifically, powergaming and escalation.

At what point does 'preparedness' turn to 'powergame'? Is making a spearkit for yourself at roundstart, every round as an assistant just 'being prepared', and expected of people? Or is it just powergaming to be ready for your validkill?

When does escalation stop applying? A punch to a critting? A punch to a ten minute brig time? A punch to a permabrig? A punch to a murder? What about theft? What about being slipped and cabletied by a hilarious clown? is it 'escalation' to send them to the cloning bay?

Discuss.

[AdenAbrafo]

I believe each situation warrants a different approach when considering how much is too much and because of this attempting to set up a policy against it would be mostly futile.

[Doritos]

The answer is "whenever the admins online at the moment want it to be"

Making a line lets people toe it, the admins have specifically never made one because of that.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

But then you encounter situations where admins make inconsistent calls for similar situations - see ban request about a mime who critted someone and destroyed all their gear for bucklecuffing them being declared valid.

[Doritos]

It's always been like that. This thread happens a lot and never does anything because people will always do just under whatever is unacceptable to avoid a bannu.

It basically comes down to knowing which admins are awful and which aren't. The line is different for each of them.

In that specific case I don't really think stripping someone and throwing them out of your department if they're trespassing makes you valid. (though stripping them of EVERYTHING is a bit dickish.)

[Not-Dorsidarf]

Wait, they broke into his department?

That's always made you valid for anything short of murder, though?

[Loonikus]

Regarding escalation, the only answer I can think of is "Use common sense you dummy."

Your bar fight shouldn't result in you stun prodding your opponent, stripping them, and spacing them because "he pulled a broken bottle on me muh escalation"

On the other hand, if the clown has been following you around ALL FUCKING SHIFT honking and slipping you, feel free to snap and show him how funny the inside of his skull looks. Just don't gib/space/cremate him because that would be being a dick.

Escalation should really be a common sense thing people. Just be ready to suffer the IC consequences for your actions.

[Saegrimr]

muh valids

[Loonikus]

That reminds me, the term "valid" as we know it shouldn't even be a thing. If it was up to me, nobody would be "valid" and all combat would require IC escalation or reasoning, even robusting antagonists.

For example, theres no fucking IC reason you would murder the wizard when he is straight jacketed, shackled, cuffed, gagged, has blindfolds and ear muffs on, and being dragged to the shuttle brig buckled to a rolling bed surrounded by a horde of security officers. But lo and behold people will see their delicious valids and fight tooth and nail to murder said wizard, and the rules just let them get away with it.

Powergaming is just a symptom of validhunting and nothing more. People know the rules about how they can kill certain people and get away with it scott free, so they use that OOC knowledge to do everything in their power to hunt said people down and kill them.

Obviously I still think antags should be able to initiate combat and murder people FNR. But otherwise it makes no sense to kill someone because you saw them spawn a balloon.

[Aurx]

For example, theres no fucking IC reason you would murder the wizard when he is straight jacketed, shackled, cuffed, gagged, has blindfolds and ear muffs on, and being dragged to the shuttle brig buckled to a rolling bed surrounded by a horde of security officers. But lo and behold people will see their delicious valids and fight tooth and nail to murder said wizard, and the rules just let them get away with it.

If that was ahelped by sec, I'd likely administer a ban.

[leibniz]

For example, theres no fucking IC reason you would murder the wizard when he is straight jacketed, shackled, cuffed, gagged, has blindfolds and ear muffs on, and being dragged to the shuttle brig buckled to a rolling bed surrounded by a horde of security officers. But lo and behold people will see their delicious valids and fight tooth and nail to murder said wizard, and the rules just let them get away with it.

If that was ahelped by sec, I'd likely administer a ban.

I dont think it would be good to ban for that before the conditions for being valid are established.

[Loonikus]

I think our problem is that we think of people being valid instead of actions being valid. So long as this mindset exists, people will seek out and kill other people for no other reason than "because I can."

I know its wishful thinking, but I think the ideal rules would be concerned with why you killed someone, and not with arbitrary limits set in OOC stone.

[rockpecker]

I think our problem is that we think of people being valid instead of actions being valid. So long as this mindset exists, people will seek out and kill other people for no other reason than "because I can."

Amen, brother.

"Valid" is shorthand for "can I skip all the stuff in the rules about sensible IC escalation and just kill someone as efficiently as possible?"

[Scott]

Spessmen should not expect hostiles, so they should not be building weapons at roundstart (or doing things that remove power from the AI). When shit does go down, powergame all you want.

[Cheimon]

Spessmen should not expect hostiles, so they should not be building weapons at roundstart (or doing things that remove power from the AI). When shit does go down, powergame all you want.

They should expect hostiles, this is why we have a blue alert and a message from centcomm detailing all the hostiles we might see.

I think it's possible to appropriately roleplay killing a totally subdued and defenceless wizard, so it shouldn't be banned outright, but it should require, well, some roleplay and explanation for your actions.