Cruel, creative, and very unusual punishments.

[warbluke]

I am not entirely sure how to start this discussion, or even if it's in the right place, but here we go:
Where do you think the line should be for Security punishments?
I have been on the receiving end of some bizarre punishments in my days of tiding, and generally I try to take it in stride. But sometimes things go really far.
Let's say, hypothetically, you are the HoS, and you have arrested some greyshit who has broken into every secure location possible. They have no traitor gear, but you still have more than enough evidence to perma or execute.
And, let's say, again hypothetically, that this same greyshit has broken out of perma and gulag a few times already.
Should there be a rules limit to what you can do to the tider? (Aside from what rules already exist) I'm not talking execution, but instead the sort of extreme and drawn-out torture that some players seem to really enjoy.
The worst example I have personally experienced was a bit before Rule 12 and the other administration crackdowns on tide, back when I would rush every Head of Staff office in the first twenty minutes for the hell of it. One day I was caught, no big deal. I broke out, got caught again, so on and so forth for half an hour. But once the captain in question got really mad, they decided to finish things spectacularly:
>First, they broke each of my limbs. Then they removed them
>Next, they removed all of my sensory organs (Tongue, ears, eyes)
>Then, my spessman was taken to a room in maint, meatspiked, put under anaesthesia, and walled off
>Finally they claimed I was dead, so as to prevent any silicons from searching
I got out twenty-five minutes later thanks to an admin taking pity on me, but it was not a fun twenty-five minutes
In your opinion, was that too far? I didn't Ahelp at the time since I figured I was in the wrong for doing a big tide, but when I told some other players about it in passing a year later they seemed pretty concerned. And thinking back on it, the whole experience was pretty uncomfortable.
My only real opinion from all these years of crime and punishment is that the solitary confinement cells on some maps need to be removed, since they are unbelievably lame, especially if you get straightjacket bucklecuffed and left in there for an hour or so.

[Waltermeldron]

If you are an antag, or acting like an antag, you can be treated under rule 4. Assuming this isn't manuel, they can do whatever the hell they want to you as long as they're not breaking rule 8.

[sinfulbliss]

IMO sec should have the ability to stray from spacelaw and opt for kneecappings, beating and other more creative punishments if it fits the crime, but with the knowledge that doing so voids their metaprotections and opens them up to retaliation.

[warbluke]

IMO sec should have the ability to stray from spacelaw and opt for kneecappings, beating and other more creative punishments if it fits the crime, but with the knowledge that doing so voids their metaprotections and opens them up to retaliation.

Does opening oneself up to retaliation really matter if the person who'd be able to retaliate has no chance of being able to do so? I.E, spending the rest of the shift getting unhusked or trapped in a maintroom. Having a Count of Monte Cristo adventure is fun and all, but you can't do that without escaping first.

[TheLoLSwat]

my philosophy is to only punish ( up to ) whatever is recommended in space law, and even then show some leniency whenever possible depending on the crime. Common sense can come in handy here. you can gulag someone for breaking into HOS office, you can cut off their arm, you can have them do hard time in brig. As long as you arent going overboard for the crime

[sinfulbliss]

IMO sec should have the ability to stray from spacelaw and opt for kneecappings, beating and other more creative punishments if it fits the crime, but with the knowledge that doing so voids their metaprotections and opens them up to retaliation.

Does opening oneself up to retaliation really matter if the person who'd be able to retaliate has no chance of being able to do so? I.E, spending the rest of the shift getting unhusked or trapped in a maintroom. Having a Count of Monte Cristo adventure is fun and all, but you can't do that without escaping first.

Being husked is prolly not what’s being considered here since that would just be an execution.

Good examples are kneecapping or beating. (Good rule of thumb to apply is: 1) the person is being a shitter, and 2) the theoretical time they’d spend escaping/fixing themselves can’t be longer than the time they’d deserve to be brigged/gulagged.)

In those scenarios you can easily envision getting your knees fixed and then going back with a chip on your shoulder to give the officer a piece of your mind. Maybe that’d involve a little scrap. But it’s important this can happen since otherwise it’s making torture a metaprotected action which would be kind of insane.

The more milquetoast solution to avoid all yucky conflicts and confusion is to just ban torture and cruel punishments from sec outright, but that’s an awful solution. You should be able to RP and do alternative punishments, sec shouldn’t have to be beepskies that processes people in the brig, set a timer, and release.

[TypicalRig]

IMO sec should have the ability to stray from spacelaw and opt for kneecappings, beating and other more creative punishments if it fits the crime, but with the knowledge that doing so voids their metaprotections and opens them up to retaliation.

we both know this wouldn't work since even if a sec officer is technically valid to someone due to third party escalation chances are some unrelated officer/person is not going to know about the scenario/not care, then RR the guy attacking the "metaprotectionless" officer. it happens all the time already.

[sinfulbliss]

IMO sec should have the ability to stray from spacelaw and opt for kneecappings, beating and other more creative punishments if it fits the crime, but with the knowledge that doing so voids their metaprotections and opens them up to retaliation.

we both know this wouldn't work since even if a sec officer is technically valid to someone due to third party escalation chances are some unrelated officer/person is not going to know about the scenario/not care, then RR the guy attacking the "metaprotectionless" officer. it happens all the time already.

That's just a risk you take if you decide to escalate against an officer. There's always the option to just not retaliate.
What separates shitsec from just a seccie opting for a creative/cruel punishment is that the latter has a justifiable reason to opt for it, and has taken care to ensure it's no worse than a by-the-book sentence would be.
Whereas the shitseccie is stepping way out of bounds, overescalating in his punishment and fucking a player over undeservedly. These are two very different things IMO.

[zergking]

I am not entirely sure how to start this discussion, or even if it's in the right place, but here we go:
Where do you think the line should be for Security punishments?
I have been on the receiving end of some bizarre punishments in my days of tiding, and generally I try to take it in stride. But sometimes things go really far.
Let's say, hypothetically, you are the HoS, and you have arrested some greyshit who has broken into every secure location possible. They have no traitor gear, but you still have more than enough evidence to perma or execute.
And, let's say, again hypothetically, that this same greyshit has broken out of perma and gulag a few times already.
Should there be a rules limit to what you can do to the tider? (Aside from what rules already exist) I'm not talking execution, but instead the sort of extreme and drawn-out torture that some players seem to really enjoy.
The worst example I have personally experienced was a bit before Rule 12 and the other administration crackdowns on tide, back when I would rush every Head of Staff office in the first twenty minutes for the hell of it. One day I was caught, no big deal. I broke out, got caught again, so on and so forth for half an hour. But once the captain in question got really mad, they decided to finish things spectacularly:
>First, they broke each of my limbs. Then they removed them
>Next, they removed all of my sensory organs (Tongue, ears, eyes)
>Then, my spessman was taken to a room in maint, meatspiked, put under anaesthesia, and walled off
>Finally they claimed I was dead, so as to prevent any silicons from searching
I got out twenty-five minutes later thanks to an admin taking pity on me, but it was not a fun twenty-five minutes
In your opinion, was that too far? I didn't Ahelp at the time since I figured I was in the wrong for doing a big tide, but when I told some other players about it in passing a year later they seemed pretty concerned. And thinking back on it, the whole experience was pretty uncomfortable.

I have been told this is not bueno against antags, so if it happens to you ahelp it

[Not-Dorsidarf]

I am not entirely sure how to start this discussion, or even if it's in the right place, but here we go:
Where do you think the line should be for Security punishments?
I have been on the receiving end of some bizarre punishments in my days of tiding, and generally I try to take it in stride. But sometimes things go really far.
Let's say, hypothetically, you are the HoS, and you have arrested some greyshit who has broken into every secure location possible. They have no traitor gear, but you still have more than enough evidence to perma or execute.
And, let's say, again hypothetically, that this same greyshit has broken out of perma and gulag a few times already.
Should there be a rules limit to what you can do to the tider? (Aside from what rules already exist) I'm not talking execution, but instead the sort of extreme and drawn-out torture that some players seem to really enjoy.
The worst example I have personally experienced was a bit before Rule 12 and the other administration crackdowns on tide, back when I would rush every Head of Staff office in the first twenty minutes for the hell of it. One day I was caught, no big deal. I broke out, got caught again, so on and so forth for half an hour. But once the captain in question got really mad, they decided to finish things spectacularly:
>First, they broke each of my limbs. Then they removed them
>Next, they removed all of my sensory organs (Tongue, ears, eyes)
>Then, my spessman was taken to a room in maint, meatspiked, put under anaesthesia, and walled off
>Finally they claimed I was dead, so as to prevent any silicons from searching
I got out twenty-five minutes later thanks to an admin taking pity on me, but it was not a fun twenty-five minutes
In your opinion, was that too far? I didn't Ahelp at the time since I figured I was in the wrong for doing a big tide, but when I told some other players about it in passing a year later they seemed pretty concerned. And thinking back on it, the whole experience was pretty uncomfortable.
My only real opinion from all these years of crime and punishment is that the solitary confinement cells on some maps need to be removed, since they are unbelievably lame, especially if you get straightjacket bucklecuffed and left in there for an hour or so.

GBJs where the player round removes you irrevocably and uninteractively without actually killing are always bad. If someone offends you to that point, kill them and bake them into a pie.

[kieth4]

Rule 4 means if you can validly round remove them, you can validly do anything else you like to them. Alongside this security has some flexibility in torturing prisoners but this should be done in accordance to their crime and whilst avoiding super creepy in depth shit. If someone is spamming coms, take their tongue. If someone is tiding constantly feel free to take their arms/legs (by doing this you also open yourself up to escalation from the prisoner so be wary) if you however want to do some weird elongated torture scene don't because it's weird. Quick and quiet is fine- long and freaky fetish shit is not.