Hypnotic Flashing/Brainwashing Antagonist freedoms, clarifications, and miscommunication.

[Longestarmlonglaw]

What are the antagonistic freedoms of non-antagonists converted into one by a traitor using hypnotic flash/brainwashing disk?
I treat being converted by a flash/disk as a regular team antagonist in a similar vein with cultists or revs: Do pretty much anything that assists your team/master.
Are orders issued always forever until told otherwise, or can they be "overruled" under certain circumstances, in other words, interpreting the spirit of what they want as opposed to what they actually say they want. Is it "allowed but you handle the risks and consequences if you defy their orders."

What happens during miscommunication? when 2 brainwashed/hypnotized folk get in a shootout and kill each other because they didn't know they were on the same team? Is it handled under "IC Issue" and "2 brainwashed minions just killed eachother in confusion, consider setting up a codewords system to prevent this from happening."

Example 1: Traitor 1 hypnotizes Traitor 2: Traitor 2 is a roboticist. Traitor 1 orders 2 to build a combat mech: Traitor 2 builds an Odysseus mech with a hidden mech mounted weapon, a syringe gun of poison kit chemicals bought from traitor 2's uplink, and some medibeam guns. Is Traitor 2 in the wrong for thinking. "They wanted a weapon worthy mech, i believe that the Odysseus i built with a poison kit chemical syringe gun and hidden mounted weapon is more robust than a durand or gygax. What traitor 2 think the spirit of their words is "Make me a mech that's good at killing, durands and gygaxes are pretty good, but i think what i built is better"


What about if your Master orders you to "lay low" but then your but status as an antagonist is outed to the crew, there's no use trying to lay low. People are hunting you down, might as well put up a fight, right?

What do you do if your master issues you an order like "Kill the janitor" You kill all janitors, but your master dies and is DNRed, what do you do now? Are you allowed to do your own thing under rule 4?

[Jacquerel]

Maybe I am confused about what you are talking about but surely hypnosis doesn't assign you a "master", it assigns you a directive? You have to follow that directive to the best of your ability, the survival or later objections of the master don't matter.
If someone hypnotises you with the phrase "Kill All Janitors" then you must continue to kill janitors until no longer hypnotised, it does not matter if the person who made the instruction is alive, if they tell you that you can stop now, or if they later become a janitor themselves.
Similarly a change in circumstances does not change the directive. If you have been hypnotised to "Lay low" then you must continue to attempt to lay low, even when the chances of success are minimal.

You aren't added to a team, nor do you have a particular player you are supposed to aid. You're like a cyborg with one law.

That's how I think it's supposed to work anyway.

[Itseasytosee2me]

Yeah, you don’t have a master. You are subservient to whatever you are brainwashed to think. Go do that thing. You aren’t an antagonist really, although you might be compelled to do antagonistic things and you may be treated as an antagonist by others for doing said things.

If you are hypnotized to follow someones orders, follow their orders. If you are hypnotized to assist someone, assist them.

Example one seems like it is especially just a misunderstanding, and that the first traitor should have been more clear if he wanted a specific mech.

If you are hypnotized to follow orders and your master tells you to “lay low.” Lay low regardless of circumstance. its what you are hypnotized to do. If you have to get rid of a witness to “lay low” i would say that’s an acceptable interpretation.

If you are hypnotized to kill all janitors, kill all of the janitors. It does not matter if the traitor who hynoed you is alive or dead. If a janitor is brought back to life, or a new one signs up, kill them too. You are not an antag and are not protected by rule 4.

[Vekter]

In an attempt to be more succinct: If you're hypnotized, you do whatever you're hypnotized to do.

If the person who flashes you tells you to run around acting like a chicken, you do it. If they tell you to murder everyone, better find a weapon.

This gets kind of messy because of the way hypnosis is implemented. Hypno flashes work like this: You flash someone and the next thing they hear is their directive. This can sometimes be weird because they might hear someone else say something like "Oh okay, thanks" which is obviously nonsense. If your directive doesn't make sense, you kind of have to make sense of it, in a way. If you absolutely can't interpret your directive into an action, you kind of ignore it, like you would a really, really poorly written AI law that does nothing.

This means you sometimes have to interpret your own meaning from it like how AIs do laws, so if your directive ends up being something like "It's too loud", you have some room to play with it. Maybe you start turning off all the radios? If someone's talking, maybe you try to shut them up? If too many people are talking, well... A toolbox is good at shutting people up! That being said, all of the same rules for law interpretation apply here as well - you can't take something that very obviously doesn't involve killing everyone and warp it to "kill everyone" just because you want to do a mass murder. If your interpretation of a directive makes sense and doesn't take like an hour to explain around, you're probably okay. Just handle it in good faith - odds are the person who's hypnotizing you doesn't want you to reveal who they are or jeopardize their mission, so try not to twist in in a way that'll do that, even if you're big mad about getting flashed.

tl;dr It's like playing AI but you only have one law.

[SkeletalElite]

people who hypnotize always give you some variation of "x is your master, follow their orders and always act in their best interests"

[Sightld2]

This gets kind of messy because of the way hypnosis is implemented...

Pretty much. I think we were having this conversation in Bus a few days ago. About whether an Antag datum was an indicator of antagonist status.

[Yulice]

Any sort of free form hypnosis is generally awful in my opinion, because 49% of it is going to be some variation of "be my slave", another 49% is going to be borderline rule 8 breaking shit, and the last 2% will be actually clever and funny things. I think what permanently soured me on it was seeing a QM who would rush bepis every shift and then try to randomly shove cuff people so he could stuff them into the EIC and hypnotize them. Ultimately I feel like it's only still around because it's still so rarely used, and clunky to use on top of that. Given that you're basically taking a ton of people who likely have never played a silicon in their life and are now forcing them to follow a pseudo silicon policy "law", if this ever started being more widespread admins would probably start smashing their heads against concrete walls. I already hear stories about how most of the admin team absolutely abhors silicon policy tickets, and given this would now be silicon policy except the person has hands and is almost exclusively being used for antagonistic purposes, and I can see it becoming absolutely hellish to track down the whole path of things.

[Jacquerel]

I think silicon policy headaches much more frequently pertain to how you adjudicate asimovs laws of robotics rather than custom laws, it would only come up for someone hypnotised if the first thing they hear after getting flashed is the AI reading out law one.

[kieth4]

Feel like this was explained well by the thread, good soldiers follow orders. As long as you are acting with your directive in mind it's fine even if you friendly fire. You can misunderstand directives too but as long as you're working towards the overall goal it's gucci.