Grant admins the sanctioned right to delay restart on rev win

[MooCow12]

This thread is mostly just to make admins more comfortable with doing something like this since I dont think its normally done.

Some rounds are interesting and rev wins tend to end it surprisingly and abruptly.

Basically if admins notice a round has ended prematurely due to rev win when something more interesting is happening (a heretic about to ascend?!? Xenos?? BLOB?? (actually blob kinda sucks)) the admin is free to delay the restart to allow existing conflicts to be resolved (revs is not always the main existing conflict)


I understand that escalation is turned off after a round has been concluded but at the end of the day its up to the admins (a person, not an algorithm) if they think that an ongoing conflict is a big deal enough for the server to see it through.

[Itseasytosee2me]

The roundend state that happens when revs win is instant. I think it is foolish to encourage people to continue playing the game normally after the roundend popup. This probably requires some coding changes to be feasible.

[MooCow12]

I didnt quite mean forcing people to play the game normally after round end pop up i meant just giving people more time to tie up loose ends if an admin wants to allow it.

[TheLoLSwat]

I didnt quite mean forcing people to play the game normally after round end pop up i meant just giving people more time to tie up loose ends if an admin wants to allow it.

do you also want people to be able to do this after the shuttle arrives at centcomm? after narsie is summoned? after the nuke goes off?

[MooCow12]

I didnt quite mean forcing people to play the game normally after round end pop up i meant just giving people more time to tie up loose ends if an admin wants to allow it.

do you also want people to be able to do this after the shuttle arrives at centcomm? after narsie is summoned? after the nuke goes off?

if it seems like thats the best interest for existing conflicts AND alot of people are alive...yes? (although i doubt narsie summon will ever not be the largest conflict of the round so why would anyone would want to delay restart during that is out of my imagination)

the reason why revs is a big deal is you tend to have alot of existing conflicts on the station when the round abruptly ends due to an arbitrary thing (the last head of staff dieing or being on another z level)

with narsie summon....thats over several minutes for the harvesters to wipe the entire z level clean and thats after the big announced summon and THEN you have the round end followed by the time it takes to restart so....alot less likely for existing conflicts to go unresolved.


antags and nonantags can both easily make effort to prevent narsie summon due to the announcement that shows the location so i dont see why they should need more time for themselves if they failed to stop that.


same with shuttle dock from a normal round end, its a natural end, everyone or atleast the majority of the players are in a small area together so it doesnt take long for conflicts to end during transit.



even nukies and doomsday and blob you get a long timer to either prevent it or settle your conflict.



rev win is just the round abruptly ends, no timer, just everyone getting surprised because its a bullshit arbitrary end, the station and round are normally still fit to continue especially from the perspective of other antags who had their rounds cut short.

[MooCow12]

Oh and another thing with revs is they dont cost quite alot of threat for dynamic right? which means other antags are more likely to exist alongside them? Which means other conflicts are more likely to form?

[Vekter]

This is a code issue, also the round ending post revs win was coded by a headmin so good luck getting this approved!

[MooCow12]

This is a code issue, also the round ending post revs win was coded by a headmin so good luck getting this approved!

Policy is often wrapped around code issues like a bandaid

The only thing this thread is asking for is to aknowledge admins delaying a round restart for 30s-1-2-3-4-5+ mins in order to allow a big existing conflict that everyone looks interested in to go through its course is perfectly fine. Revs arnt always the big bad wolf of the round the only thing about them that is always impactful is the weird popup that says the round ended and the server restarting which is sometimes misplaced.

[Jacquerel]

I don't really understand what the point of this would be, admins can already do that. They don't need a rule which says "you're allowed to use this standard admining button which you regularly use under other contexts which we also didn't outline in the rules".
I don't think they generally would want to do this because it's a bad idea, and putting it in the rules would make people assume it was supposed to regularly happen.
If we wanted this to be how the game worked then it wouldn't have been requested that the round immediately ended instead, because this is how it used to work.

[Vekter]

This is a code issue, also the round ending post revs win was coded by a headmin so good luck getting this approved!

Policy is often wrapped around code issues like a bandaid

The only thing this thread is asking for is to aknowledge admins delaying a round restart for 30s-1-2-3-4-5+ mins in order to allow a big existing conflict that everyone looks interested in to go through its course is perfectly fine. Revs arnt always the big bad wolf of the round the only thing about them that is always impactful is the weird popup that says the round ended and the server restarting which is sometimes misplaced.

Jacq said it better than I did but we don't need a ruling to do that, we can just do it. If someone posted a complaint about holding the round up for a few minutes to let something finish they would be laughed at.

Can you give a specific example of a time this has been an issue or is this all just hypothetical?

[sinfulbliss]

admins never did this back when revs used to auto-end the round so i don't think they should now

[Agux909]

Sounds like a skill issue. If you see revs will inevitably affect your sacred, self-entitled right for your project/antag round, earn it by actively contributing to the conflict, and help heads and sec stopping it to the best of your tryharding muscles. The quicker you help them win, the quicker you can go back to whatever you were doing in peace.

If you don't plan on participating in the multiplayer part of the game, why would you expect admins to extend the round just cause you didn't finish your youtube singleplayer footage?

(btw I love your vids, don't stop making them <3)

[Not-Dorsidarf]

Could swear that round ending on wizard death etc did used to give any admins online like 15 seconds to abort roundend if it was a particularly wet fart of a situation like "Only head went to lavaland without even knowing it was revs"

[MooCow12]

Sounds like a skill issue. If you see revs will inevitably affect your sacred, self-entitled right for your project/antag round, earn it by actively contributing to the conflict, and help heads and sec stopping it to the best of your tryharding muscles. The quicker you help them win, the quicker you can go back to whatever you were doing in peace.

If you don't plan on participating in the multiplayer part of the game, why would you expect admins to extend the round just cause you didn't finish your youtube singleplayer footage?

What does this have to do with me observing xenos/a heretic getting close to ascension as a ghost during a rev round and thinking to myself "thats bs now ill never see how that would have went"

if a heretic/antag or whatever tries to directly or even indirectly help sec they are

1. FRENLY ANTAG REEE
2. probably going to get batoned and looted the moment they turn their back anyway.

probably (and im speaking about this purely from the perspective of in game mechanics/meta) the best course of action is to unironically capture one of the remaining heads of staff and put them in a gay baby jail where nobody can find them, heads of staff themselves arnt really supposed to hide themselves during revs but that doesnt mean an antagonist with special interests cant force them to hide.

Is it lame? yes

but is it encouraged via in game mechanics? Absolutely.




Also some antags ie (heretic) and playstyles literally are about playing the long game idgaf what you consider to be interacting with a multiplayer game or not, there isnt a good indication at how close revs are to winning the round because the round end is so sudden and arbitrary that 3rd party antags do not know where to go or when they need to step in.



at the end of the day revs drastically lower the standard round time far shorter than the standard (90 minutes) that antags and entire departments are being deigned towards, playing as if you have 90 minutes to more directly interact with the round isnt playing a singleplayer game its playing it as the codebase intended (but thats its own separate issue that is entirely at the fault of the code-base for not knowing what it wants to do but you brought it up so whatever)

[Agux909]

Sounds like a skill issue. If you see revs will inevitably affect your sacred, self-entitled right for your project/antag round, earn it by actively contributing to the conflict, and help heads and sec stopping it to the best of your tryharding muscles. The quicker you help them win, the quicker you can go back to whatever you were doing in peace.

If you don't plan on participating in the multiplayer part of the game, why would you expect admins to extend the round just cause you didn't finish your youtube singleplayer footage?

What does this have to do with me observing xenos/a heretic getting close to ascension as a ghost during a rev round and thinking to myself "thats bs now ill never see how that would have went"

Oh, but that's even worse. I could even see where you were coming from if this was for your own sake, but now you're telling me what inspired you into creating this policy thread was for the sake of these moments in which you don't get to have closure with scenarios you're observing as a ghost? I dunno, but I think you're even less entitled to admins extending entertainment you're getting without even being involved with it, you know?

if a heretic/antag or whatever tries to directly or even indirectly help sec they are

1. FRENLY ANTAG REEE
2. probably going to get batoned and looted the moment they turn their back anyway.

probably (and im speaking about this purely from the perspective of in game mechanics/meta) the best course of action is to unironically capture one of the remaining heads of staff and put them in a gay baby jail where nobody can find them, heads of staff themselves arnt really supposed to hide themselves during revs but that doesnt mean an antagonist with special interests cant force them to hide.

Is it lame? yes

but is it encouraged via in game mechanics? Absolutely.

Yep, that's an option, no objections here.

Also some antags ie (heretic) and playstyles literally are about playing the long game idgaf what you consider to be interacting with a multiplayer game or not, there isnt a good indication at how close revs are to winning the round because the round end is so sudden and arbitrary that 3rd party antags do not know where to go or when they need to step in.



at the end of the day revs drastically lower the standard round time far shorter than the standard (90 minutes) that antags and entire departments are being deigned towards, playing as if you have 90 minutes to more directly interact with the round isnt playing a singleplayer game its playing it as the codebase intended (but thats its own separate issue that is entirely at the fault of the code-base for not knowing what it wants to do but you brought it up so whatever)

This is more an unintended side-effect dynamic has brought with itself. In the past, with secret rounds, I personally didn't see a lot of people complaining about the infamous 5 minutes rounds, they were a known meme that people knew could happen from time to time, and it was accepted as such. Dynamic has spoiled the playerbase with the chaos and flexibility of multiple crazy, unpredictable shit happening on the same round, with such unintended collateral as the revs conundrum.

If you want to change something with policy (or code? I honestly don't have a clue on what counts as what with these edge cases), I think your efforts would be better invested bringing up points to modify the state of dynamic as a whole, or maybe just making it so revs is a separate gamemode that can't interfere with other antags because no other antags would be in play when its revs.

I personally think that having revs in its own gamemode would be boring as fuck, and I'm happy with its state right now, fully aware of the drawback that some rounds will end prematurely, as it was back in the day. But hey, nothing's perfect, and dynamic isn't the exception.

[Itseasytosee2me]

What would be ideal is if antags could combat the revolution without directly siding with security and command. Traitors have access to the syndie contact lenses now (which protect them from flashes) so if they want to commando on some head revs they are empowered to do so.

[Misdoubtful]

I don't really understand what the point of this would be, admins can already do that. They don't need a rule which says "you're allowed to use this standard admining button which you regularly use under other contexts which we also didn't outline in the rules".
I don't think they generally would want to do this because it's a bad idea, and putting it in the rules would make people assume it was supposed to regularly happen.
If we wanted this to be how the game worked then it wouldn't have been requested that the round immediately ended instead, because this is how it used to work.

We believe that this sums up our response to this nicely.

Admins are able to do whatever they can justify as being good for the round/game/community, etc.

That being said, this is largely a code issue.