Reverse the headmin ruling forbidding solo antags from willingly joining a team

[Vekter]

All the way back in 2021, the Coconut/Domi/Lepi triumverate dropped the following ruling regarding solo antagonists being willingly converted to team antagonists:

Solo antags are now restricted to only being able to join conversion based antags unwillingly.
Also know as, they cant just walk up to people and ask to join or allow themselves to be converted.

(Taken from viewtopic.php?p=587044#p587044)

A few things have changed since then, the largest one being that heretics cannot join the cult under any circumstances as of PR 69725. Revs also now end the round when they win as of PR 76728, so this gives solo antags who are worried about their round ending early and aren't confident they can turn the tide for the station an option to participate in a satisfying manner without having their entire antag round scooped.

I think this warrants a revisit. We already allow situations where antags can work together towards a common goal, with all solo antags being flashable into revs and almost all solo antags being available for cult conversion. I don't see an issue with allowing this. Lepi's main concern was the consolidation of power, but the only antag that I really think would benefit from additional power here would be traitors, and they're making a pretty significant trade-off by doing this - losing the ability to go against that antagonist for their own objectives in exchange for participating in the cult.

Revs are obviously involved here, but you don't get any special powers for being a rev, so I don't think the "joining for power" thing is applicable here.

[TheBibleMelts]

thought this was already allowed to a degree since it seems such common sense that they'd have freedom to self antag since they were already round antagged. i saw traitors at least try to join the syndicate operatives a good amount of times already.

+1

[Sightld2]

I don't like the idea from a balance stand point. The cult shouldn't suddenly, through no effort of their own gain access to a traitor's uplink. Nor should a traitor a stun hand vice versa.

[Itseasytosee2me]

I'm of the belief we should incentivize solo vs conversion antag conflict as much as possible as it leads to the most dramatic and healthy round states. Nuke ops are not conversion antags, and if a solo antag wants to join them out of free will rather than a conversion mechanic I don't see any issues with that.

[Vekter]

I'm of the belief we should incentivize solo vs conversion antag conflict as much as possible as it leads to the most dramatic and healthy round states. Nuke ops are not conversion antags, and if a solo antag wants to join them out of free will rather than a conversion mechanic I don't see any issues with that.

Yeah, this is my only real hang-up at this point. I prefer the idea of antags acting against each other and not together, but the real question here is whether or not they should have the freedom in deciding if they want to, which I believe they should.

[sinfulbliss]

I think it is pretty cringe for a solo antag like tot, heretic, or worse changeling/loneop to piggyback off of conversion antags and just act as Cultist Plus or Rev Plus.

Even when it happens naturally I find it cringe, it goes against the idea behind dynamic where there are multiple separate independent threats plaguing the station, which each fuck things up in their own unique way.

Imagining progtots gunning for the conversion rune to get stunhands and teleport spells is funny though

[BrianBackslide]

Wouldn't that be an easy valid tell for antags since normal crew can't willingly be converted? Not that the revs/cult care that much, I guess. I find it more enjoyable to try to stop the cult/nukies/revs because it's MY STATION TO MENACE, DAMMIT!

[MooCow12]

I don't like the idea from a balance stand point. The cult shouldn't suddenly, through no effort of their own gain access to a traitor's uplink. Nor should a traitor a stun hand vice versa.

a 50tc uplink < a single cultist who has access to what is basically a retextured esword, okay-ish armor, can summon thralls that each have slightly weaker eswords, can fire a volley of 25 20 damage bolts, an instant melee stun, emp, instant teleport out of a bad situation all the way to another z level if necessary, can make constructs (which are actually very strong if the person playing as the artificers arnt braindead and actually play as combat medics) big instant heals with bloodrites.



The main advantage a traitor uplink gives is stealthy abusive shit like sleepy pens and bombs but sleepy pens arnt stealthy when you have a halo over your head and bombs to break into places are made irrelevant by jaunt pitchforks, wraiths drawing teleport runes, and constructs breaking walls.

Hypnoflash is also useful but not when you are ALREADY a conversion antag as a cultist. (its only good for countering cult)

what about bombs to not break into places and instead kill? tot nades? well guess what those are dogshit compared to normal chemist ones because they cant be used with remote signalers or proximity sensors, the only reason you would buy them is to skip the time it takes to make a decent nade.






Even changelings are kind of useless vs cult, what you regenerate? cool i just stun hand you,kill you, and gib you on an offering rune so you dont get to be a ling anymore you get to be my shade, your ling abilities are shit anyway.

[Yulice]

I don't like the idea from a balance stand point. The cult shouldn't suddenly, through no effort of their own gain access to a traitor's uplink. Nor should a traitor a stun hand vice versa.

They can already do this with ghost realm lol

[Lacran]

Would it make sense to allow it proving there's valid IC reasoning?


Like aligning with cult because it actually furthers a goal instead of it just being funny?

This would more align with RP rule 5.

Maybe not allow it in situations where they are joining the side that is obviously going to win though.

[TheBibleMelts]

i would like to add that, as lacran said, i think it should still have sufficient IC backing. if it's clear you're doing it just for funnyhands and then fuck off to keep doing your own thing, you should still be held under the same scrutiny as other willing converts.

[Vekter]

i would like to add that, as lacran said, i think it should still have sufficient IC backing. if it's clear you're doing it just for funnyhands and then fuck off to keep doing your own thing, you should still be held under the same scrutiny as other willing converts.

I'm 100% fine with this. I only think it should be allowed if there's a good IC reason for it.

[TheBibleMelts]

i would like to add that, as lacran said, i think it should still have sufficient IC backing. if it's clear you're doing it just for funnyhands and then fuck off to keep doing your own thing, you should still be held under the same scrutiny as other willing converts.

I'm 100% fine with this. I only think it should be allowed if there's a good IC reason for it.

best example i can think of off of the top of my head is a traitor making a 'deal with the devil' kind of arrangement with the cult in exchange for powers.

[iwishforducks]

more often than not being on a team antagonist fucks over your objectives. i.e. - you might get an assassination objective but if both of you are revolutionaries then tough luck. you just have to hope they get killed in the conflict.

not all objectives get so shafted, sometimes it’s beneficial, like stealing the nuke disk when it’s revolutionaries. and as always, green text is meme text so at the end of the day you CAN just ignore your objectives to be a Super Power Gamer

[Cheshify]

A few concerns about this, what we don't want is solo-antags rushing en-masse to join a cult/revolution whenever it's announced, as that can best be described as "lame". However, we also don't want to stifle roleplay opportunities, and a character motivation resulting in joining a dangerous group sounds pretty cool.

As such, we're electing to continue to forbid solo antagonists from willingly join conversions, except in the cases where they have direct approval under Rule 0. If you want your traitor to join the cult, have a damn good reason for doing so, have a gimmick, and ask an admin.

TL;DR: No joining team antags unless you have Rule 0 Approval from an admin.
Cheshify - Making the post +1
TheBibleMelts - Workshopping the post +1
Fikou - Approving the post +1