(Manuel) Reduce weight of revs / Proposition to remove revolutionaries.

[carshalash]

With the recent change to revolutionaries that forces a round end on rev win, the game mode has become a lot more aggressive. Neither side has any ability to hold any unches anymore, which has led to more destructive plays on the revolutionaries part, which leads to sec having fewer opportunities to deconvert people.

[Constellado]

I like revs now as a head of staff because when I get RR the round ends (or soon after) and we can go to the next round.
The only downside I had with revs before the change is that I had to wait out for the round to end after we lost which is boring. Now that is gone it is fun times guaranteed!


I can try absolutely stupid and crazy defense strategies in engi in rev rounds and it is very fun.
One day I will get a glass cannon to hit a rev. One day.

[RedBaronFlyer]

I see revs fine as is at the moment. I'm super weary about any sort of antagonist reduction/removal since I originally came from GoonRP which has like, thieves and vampires and that's it. Rev rounds have always had the issue of "well, now what?" after the revs kill the heads of staff. Now, theoretically, this would make an interesting dynamic with tons of potential for roleplay. However:

1. Head revolutionaries no longer matter after the revolution is successful. Heck, you can't even tell who was a headrev, a regular rev, or a crewmember that kept their head down long enough to survive after the revolution is successful

2. The station is usually in disrepair because of bombings and no one wants to hang around to deal with it.

3. Dynamic really isn't designed for a round to continue post rev victory and it shows because 99% of the time a progtot/heretic fucks the station with minimal opposition after a revolutionary victory. To add to this dynamic really isn't good about nukies either because if nukies roll, then 99% of the time, you also have progtots, heretics, lings (sometimes all three, sometimes all three with multiple of each type) fucking up the station before the nukies even show up.

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Here's a random idea I had, it sucks and it brings back some of the old issues of revs prior to it being changed to having a rev victory winning the round outright, but it's been floating around in my head for a while.

So keep the same overall objective for all the heads of staff to be killed/exiled, however, there's a twist that occurs at the end. During the normal revolution, instead of everyone being added to the revolutionary team, they're instead added to the revolutionary team and a clique (lets just say they're purple, green, and black). During the normal portion of the revolution when it's revs vs heads, everyone is part of the same "revolutionary" team. However, when the revolution is victorious, it then becomes a power struggle between the revolutionary heads. During this, everyone is split into their teams (so if you were converted by the purple clique revhead then you get added to the purple faction) your objective is to eliminate the other rev heads.

Alternatively, some sort of vote is held similar to the cult leadership one, whoever you pick is the person you have to fight for. Theoretically this could lead to a cult leader who did a lot to get more votes and thus be more powerful during the power play.

The power play ends if:
1. The other two head revs are dead/exiled before the heads of staff are dead/exiled
2. The other revheads get killed/exiled
3. The other head's revolutionary clique are killed or converted

However I see some giant holes in that idea so eh.
1.Revhead during a power struggle could get completely fucked by converting people who aren't actually going to fight (this happens a bit on Manuel sometimes)
2. A losing revheads could just hide in a locker and refuse to come out
3. It carries some of the issues of violence without purpose like when cult can't summon yet, but the station is defenseless where cult is just roaming the halls killing people and isn't even trying to convert people.

[NoxVS]

My issue with revs is there is an OOC consequence for you to care about without any kind of IC consequence to tie it to. When a cult or nukies show up it makes sense for traitors, heretics, and changelings to temporarily bury the hatchet and work with the crew to stop them. IC they don't want to be blown up or converted into the thralls of an eldritch god. OOC they don't want the round to end. There is no IC justification for you to help command maintain control but you want them to win anyways so that the round continues. If you don't help command, all of the sudden the round arbitrarily and abruptly ends.

I think if revolution does stick around I'd rather it be the only antagonist. We dealt with all the other antagonists instantly ending the round because it doesn't work with dynamic, adding it back in just results in a mode that doesn't work now that dynamic has become the norm. Just remove it, give the odds over to cult or however it works.

[dendydoom]

from the pov of admins trying to act in the best interests of a round, post-revs was a mess when people wanted to stay on the station for another hour because most of the time we'd have a small army of ghosts who are a bit miffed that they were killed, usually with no likelihood of revival (medbay is usually a crater, etc.)

usually under those circumstances you look to wind the round down and get it concluded, because it's the best course of action for the majority of participants logged into the server. revs ending of its own accord does that for us.

it also doesn't make sense ICly in the case of a revs victory. it's been brought up before: now that they've seceded from the iron grip of their corporate overlords, why would they just go back to work? or take a shuttle back to centcom?

as for a reduction, as far as i'm aware it already has a pretty hefty roundstart threat cost. but i would not be fully opposed to the idea of its threat cost being increased so that it occurs a little less.

[Jacquerel]

increasing threat cost won’t necessarily make it rarer, just decrease the amount of side antagonists in the round
you can also increase the threat minimum without increasing the cost
i don’t remember if there’s a separate “weight” variable which is purely rarity but you’d think there is

[Indie-ana Jones]

Yeah, there's just a weight variable which can be changed via config.

[RedBaronFlyer]

I think if revolution does stick around I'd rather it be the only antagonist. We dealt with all the other antagonists instantly ending the round because it doesn't work with dynamic, adding it back in just results in a mode that doesn't work now that dynamic has become the norm. Just remove it, give the odds over to cult or however it works.

I still feel like the baby was thrown out with the bathwater when every round was made to be dynamic, it just results in every round being extremely samey.

Dynamic is very undynamic, ironically, but I've already said that like, 500 times now.

I feel like revs/possibly cult/nukies should essentially halt any other antags from being rolled, and instead queued up. Then, once the revs/nukies are dealt with, it'll roll the stuff that it had queued up from round start (and midround, probably). I could see this being a huge clusterfuck where 3 sleeper agents, a blob, a lone operative, a ling, xenos, and a ninja all suddenly pop into existence when the previous threat is dealt with, though.

Dynamic and its consequences have been a disaster for the Spessman race.

[EmpressMaia]

This is just a issue sprouting from dynamic like baron said. @mothblocks or smth idk

[carshalash]

Team death match isn't compatible with the 'mrp' server.

[kieth4]

We're not removing revolutions/changing the weight.