Ghost Court in Wizard Events Allowed?

[Hoolny]

Recently and in other rounds people have heavily complained about ghosts going out of their way to rating out antags to get them killed.

As far as I can this isnt against the rules and I just want to make sure there is no possibility of me or someone else being banned for doing this

[xPokee]

1. Don't be a dick
We're all here to have a good time, supposedly. Going out of your way to seriously negatively impact or end the round for someone with little IC justification is against the rules, this also includes harassing a player OOC (Out of character). Legitimate conflicts where people get upset do happen however, as detailed in the escalation section of the rules.

So yes, I would say going out of your way to get as many antags as you can RR'd or caught just because, is against the rules. Maybe you could provide IC justification if it is you leading security to the person who killed you in a vengeful spirit getting revenge on their murderer kind of way. But just getting any and all antags caught just for the fun of it probably goes against Rule 1.

[nianjiilical]

3am thoughts on this

generally speaking, it's agreed on that deadchat is ooc, in exchange for dead players not having any real way to interact with the round or players. in the few deliberate ways that ghosts can interact with the living, its accepted that the interaction between ooc and ic information is allowed; the biggest example is revenant, where we explicitly allow the revenant to transmit ooc knowledge to ic players (the revenant being an antag also gives them license to lie and fuck with people), but the same applies to magic 8 balls and probably other minor things im forgetting

in that regard i think that visible ghosts should fall under the same rules: if something intentionally causes deadchat and livechat to be able to interact, the transfer of ic/ooc knowledge should be allowed, including using the ooc ability to observe the entire round to find antags. the main balancing lever for this is usually the fact that ghosts are allowed to (and maybe even encouraged to) lie and fuck with people, and if you blindly trust ghosts and kill someone innocent thats on you

the one scenario where i would personally bwoink someone for going by ghost court knowledge is if ghosts hint that person A is an antag, person B runs up and wordlessly blasts them into oblivion, then person B actually checks their items and finds the ghosts lied. ghosts should not be taken as concrete evidence for/against antagonism because, again, ghosts are neutral parties and are absolutely allowed to lie and fuck with people, and acting purely on what you think ghosts are telling you should carry the same risks as hearing someone yell on common "john botany has a desword" and immediately rushing to botany, shooting them 76 times and decapping them when they're just growing weed

if ghost court actually *is* a problem id rather see a code solution, either by having the wizard's death remove ghost visibility, or maybe letting the crew banish ghosts with salt or the null rod or something

[mrmelbert]

Outside of someone changing their ghost name to "CMOisa Traitor" I would never act on a ghost for doing ghost things with summon ghosts, it's soul

This is just a dynamic moment and could probably be coded out if it's too much of a problem

[Striders13]

ghost court is funny and soul, but if you follow ghost court and end up being wrong you'll get banned.

[Timberpoes]

Ghosts may act as antags.

[Cobby]

Honestly feature, wizardry should not be happening often enough that this needs to be clamped down on.

If anything the onus would be on the player using ghosts as their only evidence and not the ghost themselves

[Fikou]

ghost court is soul

[NamelessFairy]

From what I'm aware the ruling on this has always been, ghosts get to act as antags, which means they can reveal antags or attempt to get people falsely accused. Players generally shouldn't cite an antagonistic force to determine if someone is a antagonist or not. I'm with cobby and agreeing that if a player decides to use ghosts as their only source of evidence then they're the ones at fault.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

Ghost Court is funny. If anything, ghosts should be even crueller and try to get innocents lynched.

[MooCow12]

Ghosts are not bound by ic rules, only server rules (no ddos/rule 0/erp/etc)

The issue with visible ghosts and other antags is wizard isnt designed to co-exist with other antags and had a lot of things grandfathered into dynamic, blame that not a specific event that wizard can trigger.

[Vekter]

This is fine. Ghosts aren't 100% reliable so it's always possible they randomly decide to fuck with you and orbit someone who's done literally nothing worth attacking them over.

One of the points of Summon Ghosts is to cause disruption and chaos. What's more chaotic than trying to get someone to lynch somebody?

[Turbonerd]

Ghosts more often than not just troll random people rather than validing antags. It's on the people for taking ghosts seriously.

[BrianBackslide]

If you're validhunting based on information from ghost court, you're already making some incredibly poor life decisions.

[Pandarsenic]

Ghosts can do as they please, and if the crew does something stupid because of that, it's really their own fault.

[WineAllWine]

My favourite thing during summon ghosts is to rename myself "Dog ghost that opens doors you point at", activate my AI interaction and randomly woosh around opening doors that people point at

[Screemonster]

My favourite thing during summon ghosts is to rename myself "Dog ghost that opens doors you point at", activate my AI interaction and randomly woosh around opening doors that people point at

reminds me of the time I played a sentient Ian with knock and security were torn between validing me for running around with a wizard spell and trying to avoid becoming valid themselves for killing Ian

[kieth4]

Ghost court is funny. If you kill the wrong person you'll get punished though so be careful.