[Proposal] The Mergening

[TheBibleMelts]

Overview: Toss MRP/LRP tags into the trash, and instead grade the servers based on the threat level setting that dynamic will throw at them on an average basis. Overall goals would be getting the community to mingle more between servers depending on what kind of shift they want to play. You want high-octane chaos? You got it. You want chill spess vibes and project building sectors? You can have it.

Terry/Sybil - High Danger Sectors

Basil - Medium Threat/Wildcard Sector

Manuel/Campbell - Low Threat Sectors

Q: What about the MRP ruleset on Manuel?

Most people who shift between Manuel and the other servers will already tell you that the line between /tg/'s "LRP and MRP" experience is already almost indistinguishable in regards to the quality of RP offered, with the MRP rulesets as they are being used currently mostly acting to amplify an already existing rule infraction you're doing in instances of a bwoinking.

I'd like to trim down and adjust the RP ruleset to what's being realistically enforced as the rules that promote good-faith gameplay, and then apply that ruleset universally between all servers - bringing us back to one community with one ruleset. Overall, this would raise the floor of RP on Sybil/Terry/Basil, (to essentially raise it back from the perception that they're the 'NRP' servers) and allow the higher-level of RP people anticipate from Manuel to be sourced from a position of lower station-ending threats to deal with, as opposed to strictly enforced regulations on how they're allowed to RP.

I'd like to hear the general perception on this idea from the community before I get ahead of myself and begin drafting the roleplay rules adaptations.

I was going to scrap this as a concept, but some folks prompted me to share it and see if it was worth workshopping some more. I've already had some very valid concerns over this shared with me by some people of whose opinions I respect very much, and am likely not to press this as a goal without taking both community and administrative feedback deeply to heart.

[Dalmationer]

It's an interesting idea, but I'm not sure how to feel about it because very often playing low RP style is, well, mechanically superior. Security and antags do have difficulty getting roleplay, because time is very much of the essence in those sorts of situations...
I've mostly been playing on manuel lately, but I feel that often folks are most likely to go into a roleplaying type mindset if others are also trying to occupy this space.
That said, I do feel that lower threat does lend itself to more RP, because it gives you more time to set up your Goofy Scheme as an antag, or to do construction projects, really build character interactions, etc.
some thoughts:
Will this drive away any particular groups of players?
How would coexisting between roleplaying and not roleplaying be done on an administrative level? I.E. what do you do if folks are looking down on people because they are roleplaying, or folks refuse to interact with other plays who do not roleplay? If nothing, how will that affect the userbase?
How would folks avoid a situation where manuel/campbell end up with significantly lower player numbers than terry, sybil and basil with this change, by virtue of creating an impression among the userbase of being 'boring' or nooby?

[Donglesplonge]

i like the concept here, i really do, but a gripe of mine is that this in its current iteration feels vague and as such i can't really say much other than i currently like it, but i think it'd be nice if you could come up with an example, it ain't gotta be perfect but when you say "i'd like to trim down and adjust the RP ruleset to whats realistically being enforced" nobody other than admins i think would actually understand what you mean, because admins are privy to more information than players of course.

Edit: for frame of reference when i mean "in its current iteration" i of course mean your general statement and not anything else in particular, i just like having examples because it helps people cling to something and levels the field a little for everyone regardless of amount of information

[Higgin]

the biggest pain-points of doing something like this are likely to be around standards for escalation between antags and nonantags and the extent to which 'stay in your lane' is applied

The first problem as I see it is that the whole idea of a lower level of action or MRP is to make room for things that usually get subsumed by sweaty competitive gameplay - gimmicks, events, more theatrical/narrative antagonism, and emergent goofiness between the crew running with a bit.

One sweaty progtot or heretic playing entirely to their objectives (which is valid!) can, even with the restrictions as they are currently felt on MRP, fuck that all up and condition people to behave in a way that fucks that up by having to play around the threats scaling and potentially knocking you out of the round at any point (which their antag status entitles them to do.)

Unless there is going to be some meaningful change to the baseline standard that lets antags effectively say fuck, just partitioning the servers by threat level isn't going to necessarily help change the experience except inasmuch as, like now, people who play in the same server get to know each other and extend good faith based on the sort of culture that develops there.

Raising the floor on what antags can do right now or effectively restricting them would be inimical to a lot of what I think people go to LRP for. It'd be nice for it to be more felt on MRP, but honestly, a lot of people like the action, competition, and headbanging on MRP too. It'd probably be more compatible to shitcan the restrictions at large if you were to do something like this and just count on the antags showing up on 'low threat' being fewer and generally less impactful (but having this be by no means guaranteed.)


wrt: staying in your lane, tiding, self-antagging, respecting command/sec, validhunting - ngl, the one I feel most is validhunting, and I think that's unfortunately being applied on MRP as less of an antidote to people shutting down gimmicks or non-sweaty antag play than as a way to console antags who see it as an entitlement for MRP to be a soft-play area for otherwise acting like they're on LRP.

As the other policy thread up now re: staying in your lane makes clear, there's little love lost on raising the floor among more regular LRP players. If anything like this is done, it should probably not be done without at least consulting a broader poll after a more detailed proposal is up for people to consider. On MRP, especially on lowpop, the basic 'do your job' requirement just as quickly gives way to 'if you won't or aren't there to do it, I will.'

[TheFinalPotato]

I cannot put into words how on board I am with the idea of not having 2 rulesets and 2 hyperotherdudeisanasshole communities who self separate with names we gave them.
IDK about the threat stuff I imagine we might have some trouble with having different per server configs (Tho I think that's already done for manuel silly if true) and chaos existing is what the game is FOR even if some people don't want it in the moment, but just for the other stuff I'm happy.

[Imitates-The-Lizards]

It's not impossible, if we look at the roleplay rules (And keep in mind, I am an LRP Sybil player giving my opinion here):

1. Rule invalidated, there is no longer distinction between RP rulesets.
2. This rule is already meaningless, people can and do get banned for starting conflicts that end lethally FNR on LRP.
3. This is already a good rule globally.
4. Validhunters are really dumb and not fun for anyone. I have never seen anyone go "Oh boy, being validhunted by Tider Jim really improved my shift!". Enforcing this rule should hopefully force people off of assistant/paramedic and into security, so, I'm not opposed, as an LRP player.
5. This is the pain point. The only way the LRP players will accept this merger is if this rule is tossed in the trash. Considering MRP players are always complaining about how boring it is because no one is antagonistic, I'm optimistic headmins can see this rule needs to be tossed to make this work.
6. This is already a good rule globally.
7. This rule should just be tossed and brought down to global rule 12 standards. Admins shouldn't be bwoinking the medical doctor who made some Chloral Hydrate syringes and grabbed the syringe gun and got a knife to defend themselves, but they SHOULD bwoink the person who signed up as Captain and at the start of the shift got the krav maga gloves, the antique laser, the hand tele, reactive teleport armor, a snare gun, a reflector coat, some bolas and flashbangs, and a baton, is pulling a beepsky with them... etc. all before the alert level was even announced.
8. This is already a good rule globally.
9. This rule is unironically good. You shouldn't sign up as engineer and then spend the entire shift doing virology, especially if there is actually a virologist. At least not without getting a job change from the HOP. I can live with this, if it's enforced correctly (And by enforced correctly, I mean admins don't sperg out and bwoink people for this rule if it's lowpop and people have to do multiple jobs but they (the admins) turn around and say "BUT THE RULE SAYS")
10. This is already a good rule globally.

So, basically, if the headmin team can agree to toss Roleplay Rule 5 (No compromising on this one. No, you're not going to only toss it partially. You need to COMMIT to tossing it completely.), and that in regards to Roleplay Rule 7 we will not be bwoinked for arming up to reasonable existing Rule 12 standards, I'm fine with this.

[Striders13]

Are you planning on keeping antag freedom as is lrp-wise?

[RedBaronFlyer]

I had a big post but I didn't like how it turned out so I'm going to TL;DR it.

I cannot put into words how much of a bad idea I would see this turning out if it were ever actually to happen. This ranges from the peak of the bell curve being a single server, to the issue of trying to make a uniform ruleset for all the servers. Could it work? If brute forced enough, probably. I cannot imagine how much it would rile people up and make some leave, though. Dynamic would be more of a shitshow and it would remove admin dungeonmastering and would lead to sweaty gamer stuff like knowing dynamic is about to take a constipated shit on the station because it's approaching the midroll and no big antags have been spotted on the heavy threat server. (this already happens)

MRP rules definitely need a rewrite + some actual admin enforcement. Right now, roleplay rules are the equivalent of a cop searching your car after pulling you over for a traffic violation because they think they smell weed, or a cop making you go through all the intoxication tests.

edit:
Okay I felt like I was a bit harsh but I could very easily see how this could go badly even with the best intentions.

[kieth4]

Think this would probably make me quit the server and move on tbh.

People play Lrp for things like antag freedom, validhunting, no staying in your lane. It would truly fucking suck imo and you'd lose a lot of players (at least european sphere wise) there's a reason campbell is dead. Terry is the last European LRP server and I think that killing it is not the way to go

[iwishforducks]

Think this would probably make me quit the server and move on tbh.

People play Lrp for things like antag freedom, validhunting, no staying in your lane. It would truly fucking suck imo and you'd lose a lot of players (at least european sphere wise) there's a reason campbell is dead. Terry is the last European LRP server and I think that killing it is not the way to go

i dont think the intention is to make things more “mrp” unless im mistaken. i guess it comes down to what they’d be “merging” but as someone has pointed out in this thread a lot of the mrp rules are nothing-burgers, other than say, antag policy and stay in your lane (which is never enforced or has had to been to a substantial amount- and thank fucking god. it’s the dumbest rule on there) both of which are horrible rules and i hope they’re just axed in their entirety and not at all considered for merging

im curious what you expect to happen to the rules, if this merging were to happen?

[iwishforducks]

im going to bed but as someone who made this their headmin election platform a year ago i have had a lot of time to think over this and thus a lot to say. i’ve played bagil (in its prime), sybil and manuel and feel like my experiences have given me some much needed insight on this, which can best be described a tribalistic issue that promotes echo-chambers. held off on giving a response on this because i have so much to say. so idk get ready for the big ass post

[Voudez]

It's looks kinda eh, because first of all, by applying mrp ruleset to all servers, it's just going to add unnecessary restrictions to people who already chose to play without it. If people would like to play with an additional ruleset, they would join manuel/campbell. Lets for example, take a look at Terry and Campbell. EU people don't play Campbell because most of them are not interested in additional restrictions. And separating servers by threat level while mrp ruleset is applied won't make things better; rather, it will make things worse. I can't honestly imagine how everyone is going to try rp when 60% of them are antagonists with the urge to kill each other.

In general, it's roleplay-sandbox game, and honestly, I would prefer the option where is more sandbox and the minimum (but not without it ofcourse!!!) RP.

[Imitates-The-Lizards]

Think this would probably make me quit the server and move on tbh.

People play Lrp for things like antag freedom, validhunting, no staying in your lane. It would truly fucking suck imo and you'd lose a lot of players (at least european sphere wise) there's a reason campbell is dead. Terry is the last European LRP server and I think that killing it is not the way to go

Keith, come on, don't you think it's really stupid people validhunt as assistant instead of security? That is literally the function and purpose of security.

[Voudez]

And by separating servers with mrp and lrp tags, we just define preferences. Right now, by choosing the server, you define your playstyle. And current definitions are what you prefer: more sandbox or more roleplay. Which gonna be tossed into trash bin and replaced with threat level you prefer (and guarantee addition of restrictions?)

[sinfulbliss]

First of all I don't think the LRP and MRP experience is "indistinguishable," having played hundreds of rounds on MRP and thousands on LRP. They are different experiences offering different things. Combining them sacrifices the unique experiences each individually offer for no clear advantage other than "unified ruleset," which is not implicitly a good thing.

I also don't think the MRP ruleset is merely an "amplifier" of the baseline rules. They are fundamentally different rules. On MRP antags don't have total freedom. Validhunting is disallowed. Players are expected to stay in their lane and not do other people's jobs. There is no "pre-existing rule infraction" here, they are specific to MRP.

The rules are balancing acts. If antags are unrestricted, you need to unrestrict crew in handling them - i.e., rule 4 and validhunting. If you restrict antags, you have to restrict how players can handle them - RPR6. There's no "combining" these rules, there is no "middle ground." You have to choose which to enforce, and that is going to either favor the MRP server culture or the LRP server culture.

It's also useful to look at poll results:

Spoiler:

People play servers for two reasons: 1) the community, or 2) LRP/MRP. That's it. People will play their home server regardless of if the rules become unified or not. Nothing will really change except gutting all of the LRP rules and replacing them with rewritten MRP-lite rules, which is not what the vast, vast majority of players, who are perfectly happy with how LRP is, want.

Final thoughts:

to essentially raise it back from the perception that they're the 'NRP' servers

The way to improve the roleplay standards on LRP is not by hacking away at the freedom players enjoy on those servers and making it into MRP-lite. The way is by tackling very specific, directed issues that are causing the perceived lack of RP. The question you should be asking is: Why are players not roleplaying? Do LRP players just suck and need to be put in their place with tighter rules?

I don't think that's the answer. The real answer will be harder to find and require an honest reflection at what players are actually looking for out of TG. It may not be what you were when you started in 2014, or what I was when I started in 2017.

[kieth4]

Think this would probably make me quit the server and move on tbh.

People play Lrp for things like antag freedom, validhunting, no staying in your lane. It would truly fucking suck imo and you'd lose a lot of players (at least european sphere wise) there's a reason campbell is dead. Terry is the last European LRP server and I think that killing it is not the way to go

i dont think the intention is to make things more “mrp” unless im mistaken. i guess it comes down to what they’d be “merging” but as someone has pointed out in this thread a lot of the mrp rules are nothing-burgers, other than say, antag policy and stay in your lane (which is never enforced or has had to been to a substantial amount- and thank fucking god. it’s the dumbest rule on there) both of which are horrible rules and i hope they’re just axed in their entirety and not at all considered for merging

im curious what you expect to happen to the rules, if this merging were to happen?

I'd expect antag freedom to die and I'd expect stay in your lane- or a rule like it to be enforced on all the servers. I think our headmins currently lean in the direction of MRP(the server as is) so I think it makes sense that the rules would lean to towards those players want.

Antagonists having the freedom to do whatever they want but in return, people who act like one can get treated like one is imo the crux rule of lrp. There's no real high level "roleplay" here in this rule when someone is an antag/someone acting like one and you kill them.

And not staying in your lane and doing whatever the fuck you want as any job I'd also a crux freedom that it seems like headmins already want to remove so w/e.

Rule 4 I guess is the major whammy. I know at least 20 people who only play on tg because of it and its implementation and fuck it, I'm probably one of them. If it goes I do not think there is going to be anything that tg can offer me and I'll probably end up playing something like Eris or LWFB full time, maybe CM/IS12.

[kieth4]

Think this would probably make me quit the server and move on tbh.

People play Lrp for things like antag freedom, validhunting, no staying in your lane. It would truly fucking suck imo and you'd lose a lot of players (at least european sphere wise) there's a reason campbell is dead. Terry is the last European LRP server and I think that killing it is not the way to go

Keith, come on, don't you think it's really stupid people validhunt as assistant instead of security? That is literally the function and purpose of security.

I probably have more sec hours than you and only play sec. I don't mind if homies validhunt. On high threat rounds I appreciate the assistants because they help stop random people from being rred

[JupiterJaeden]

I think this is a bad idea and the idea that sybil/terry and manuel are "basically the same experience already amirite guys" is painfully untrue. The different rulesets do 100% give meaningful differences to the kind of play that occurs and frankly the culture is just quite different as well.

I would hate to see the manuel crowd get thinned out even more between people like me who would hate to play on a "low threat boringsauce nothing ever happens server" (I'd almost certainly go to mid-threat if this went through) vs. those who would see the low threat as the "new manuel" and would avoid the higher threat ones due to a lot of the old LRP players going there vs. those who would just leave entirely due to being upset with the change.

[SkeletalElite]

I am pretty much 100% against adding any of the substantive roleplay rules to all the servers. The freedom to do whatever you want as an antag or to antags, and the freedom to do basically anything that doesn't cause grief for others as non antag is a core part of the tg experience IMO and is the reason I like this server.

[CPTANT]

So what actually is this "trimmed" ruleset?

Will it just be basically MRP enforced on all servers?

[TheRex9001]

I feel like I'd wanna see whats proposed for the trimmed ruleset first

[DATAxPUNGED]

I'm worried that a unification of the rules might make the roleplay on our MRP servers, that is already quite poor sometimes, worse. People have been talking here about getting rid of the powergaming rule, for example.

[Fikou]

I'm not a big fan, while I like the idea of centralizing the ruleset to stay consistent and merging the community in a vacuum, I don't think you can have rules like stay in your lane or rule 4 stay consistent in a ruleset without hurting the previous LRP or previous MRP players.

[Higgin]

Think this would probably make me quit the server and move on tbh.

People play Lrp for things like antag freedom, validhunting, no staying in your lane. It would truly fucking suck imo and you'd lose a lot of players (at least european sphere wise) there's a reason campbell is dead. Terry is the last European LRP server and I think that killing it is not the way to go

Keith, come on, don't you think it's really stupid people validhunt as assistant instead of security? That is literally the function and purpose of security.

it's not stupid, it's a part of the competitive game that everybody should be able to pull up to instead of non-sec having to act like they're jungle camps for antags.

what you get as security is a degree of metaprotection and gear that prevents you from as easily getting mis-ID'd as a baddie, but also makes people who impersonate you/get your gear a lot more dangerous. the whole social deduction aspect of the game where you've got crew vs. antagonists turns on the people who aren't 'guaranteed innos' as we might have called them in epicmafia existing in a grey space of possibly being good or bad - it doesn't turn on some sort of good chaps rule about everyone who isn't an antag or security sitting on their thumbs for no good reason.

e1: unfortunately this is sort of baked into a lot of our antagonists and the way they work with the game. a lot of stuff is a 100% tell or damn close to it for antag status. i think the only real justification for it being banned or discouraged on MRP is because validhunting (and antags who behave like they're valid) encourage people to gun-jump on gimmicks and unconventional play. a lot of antags on MRP, particularly on mid-high pop, behave in a way that would more fit the LRP paradigm

[conrad]

You can lower threat on Manuel and Campbell without nuking the ruleset.

[dendydoom]

i think these intentions are very noble and pure, but i can't quite put into words right now how much i don't like it as an idea. but i shall try anyway:

people just want to play with their friends when they choose a server. manuel may have a "stricter" ruleset but we still have players who are "lrp" or enjoy chaos and it's very crucial to the atmosphere of the server to have people who like thespian roleplaying and people who like high octane explosions and combat to be comingling in the same environment. it creates a strong and varied tapestry of player types in the same space interacting with each other and acting as foils to one another. it is one of my favourite aspects of playing on manuel and it actively combats stagnation or a hugbox of expectations from developing where people become too set in their ways and expectations. by codifying threat level and using it as the barometer to measure the difference between servers will stratify player types more than they already are from the mrp/lrp designations.

with mrp we are often asking players to engage more deeply with the game's narrative and their character's role within it. this is intended to create a richer and more immersive experience, but it also requires a greater time and emotional investment from players. lrp, on the other hand, enjoys more casual engagement where the plot-driven narrative of the round takes precedence. this is strongly dictated by threat, but i feel that it's reductive to say that this is the one and only driving force. the dynamics of the game can be significantly different beween mrp and lrp outside of this: mrp might involve more expectations of collaboration between players to create a cohesive story, regardless of threat, whereas lrp may have more individual or competitive elements. i feel that the proposed changes don't fully take this into account, because mid/high threat is an important and enjoyable aspect in both of these mindsets that bring players together.

if you want my interpretation of the importance of the lrp/mrp tags, then it's not rooted in threat, it's rooted in structure. mrp benefits more from curated rounds where we try to create a mindset in players that asks them to be more thoughtful and try to go along with gags and gimmicks rather than try to beat them up as if it's an encounter to defeat outright. lrp benefits more from the freedom of seeing a complex situation and not giving a shit about how people "expect" you to solve it, you do whatever you want to it because it's a very complicated and freeform game that allows for complicated and freeform solutions to issues.

i think the threat distinction is important to make, because mrp *does* benefit more from lower threat rounds on average, but to then take that as the most important aspect of what constitutes the difference between mrp/lrp expectations is where i disagree - the culture is a lot more complicated than that. i feel like this is perhaps an attempt to address the issues of the distinct identity each of our servers have, but i would also implore you to consider that things run deeper than this and that this solution may not fully be accounting for them.

[iain0]

I find the idea interesting, though needs more details to really conclude on.

I have concerns about how it will affect the community ; as a Terry regular, do I stay on terry and put up with constant 30 minute speedrun rounds where nothing but combat happens? There isn't even a "middle of the road" EU server in this plan. Might be better to limit the low impact to just one US server and have high/med on EU. Those who wish to low impact play /probably/ dont care about ping quite as much as the higher action setups (or at least its overall less necessary/impactful).

Also dynamic would need to min assign 50% threat to round start in some of these situations, rolling 90 threat doesn't mean so much when you allocate 3 round start, and takes dynamic most of an hour to make anything out of this sorta setup, which in more realistic (not 90:3 split) splits tends to mean it bleeds threat out on low impact rolls

Otherwise, might be interesting, dynamic might still not entirely deliver on expectations even given more controlled inputs, there's probably a lot of stuff that could be done in the "game director" area in general.

[DaydreamIQ]

I can't see a situation where either side of the playerbase would be happy with this merge. Yeah there's a lot of "X server is bad" Mentality but forcing the two together and doing away with the entire MRP ruleset would kind of just spit in the face of all the people who prefer that side. Despite what you might think some people LIKE high threat rounds on MRP.

[britgrenadier1]

Honestly a relaxing of the MRP rule sets to allow the community and people to self police would be nice. A lot of the time it feels like antags abuse antag protection to get away with non gimmick antag behavior. It can make manny feel like an antag playground when you spend all round dealing with loud heretics and then get bwoinked when you ice heretic number 4 on the spot. Having taken a break from manny to play on Sybil has actually been pretty refreshing. I feel like I can talk to people easier weirdly enough since you know you are more in control of the pace of the round. I can chit chat with traitor number 3 because I know that if I feel overwhelmed I can vaporize traitor number 4.

[TheBibleMelts]

like I said in the OP, I had heard enough good points against this before I shared it here to not want to push for it myself, but was prompted to open discussion on it just to see what the takes would be. i appreciate the discussion about it still and intend to leave this thread going for a bit longer - regardless of this being put back down on the cutting room floor where I picked it up from, I have been able to get a lot of good information and feelings from people in the community about the issues that this was attempting to address.

[Cheshify]

I can't see a situation where either side of the playerbase would be happy with this merge. Yeah there's a lot of "X server is bad" Mentality but forcing the two together and doing away with the entire MRP ruleset would kind of just spit in the face of all the people who prefer that side. Despite what you might think some people LIKE high threat rounds on MRP.

In the proposed policy, if you like higher threat rounds could you not just go to Sybil and then have a higher threat 'MRP' round since the rulesets would be combined?

[Ivan Issaccs]

► Show Spoiler

This is at 8PM in the UK.
Manuel has more players than both LRP US servers combined.
People seem to like it.
Campbell however is dead, and I think would greatly benefit from being LRP. People play Basil because Sybils too hectic and Manual mandates a different playstyle that Basil just develops on a population basis.
I think Campbell could fill the same niche Basil does for the EU players, because Im convinced that not every LRP terrymain wants 100% chaos all the time but they don't really have that option.

[sinfulbliss]

► Show Spoiler

Manuel has more players than both LRP US servers combined.

I think your point still works but it's Sybil - 24, Terry - 57, Manuel - 46? Almost twice the LRP players if you include Bagil.

[Indie-ana Jones]

I think threat-ranked servers make a lot more sense than LRP and MRP. Doling out servers based on threat level I think would actually appeal more to what everyone is looking for out of a SS13 experience, even though it might be hard to see with the culture war LRP vs. MRP has spawned.

If I were to do this, I would probably just have the LRP ruleset be standard because it seems to me this would be an attempt to get us back to where we were before we added Manuel into rotation, that "good era Sybil" or whatever you want to call it. That ran on LRP rules and had a good blend of both mechanical and rp competence, so ultimately its no so much the restrictions you put in place as it is the culture of the players on that server. Of course, we can't really predict the cultures that would spawn from doing this, but if I had to guess, this wouldn't change the server demographics at all, maybe just distribute us a little more. Terry and Sybil would accept the new higher threat and continue as normal, Manuel keeps the hugboxier crowd and maybe (very much maybe) Sybil and Manuel lose some pop to form a functioning Bagil if middle-of-the-road actually ends up being more enjoyable, and maybe Campbell gets a little bit of pop also from Manuel, but not enough to function.

[cybersaber101]

I guess it's definitive proof that a headmin team has finally giving up on a RP centric or A more RP centric server.

[Cheshify]

I guess it's definitive proof that a headmin team has finally giving up on a RP centric or A more RP centric server.

Not at all, this isn't even in the workshopping stages it's just an idea that's been had and we want to gauge thoughts and comments from the community.

[Constellado]

i think these intentions are very noble and pure, but i can't quite put into words right now how much i don't like it as an idea. but i shall try anyway:

people just want to play with their friends when they choose a server. manuel may have a "stricter" ruleset but we still have players who are "lrp" or enjoy chaos and it's very crucial to the atmosphere of the server to have people who like thespian roleplaying and people who like high octane explosions and combat to be comingling in the same environment. it creates a strong and varied tapestry of player types in the same space interacting with each other and acting as foils to one another. it is one of my favourite aspects of playing on manuel and it actively combats stagnation or a hugbox of expectations from developing where people become too set in their ways and expectations. by codifying threat level and using it as the barometer to measure the difference between servers will stratify player types more than they already are from the mrp/lrp designations.

with mrp we are often asking players to engage more deeply with the game's narrative and their character's role within it. this is intended to create a richer and more immersive experience, but it also requires a greater time and emotional investment from players. lrp, on the other hand, enjoys more casual engagement where the plot-driven narrative of the round takes precedence. this is strongly dictated by threat, but i feel that it's reductive to say that this is the one and only driving force. the dynamics of the game can be significantly different beween mrp and lrp outside of this: mrp might involve more expectations of collaboration between players to create a cohesive story, regardless of threat, whereas lrp may have more individual or competitive elements. i feel that the proposed changes don't fully take this into account, because mid/high threat is an important and enjoyable aspect in both of these mindsets that bring players together.

if you want my interpretation of the importance of the lrp/mrp tags, then it's not rooted in threat, it's rooted in structure. mrp benefits more from curated rounds where we try to create a mindset in players that asks them to be more thoughtful and try to go along with gags and gimmicks rather than try to beat them up as if it's an encounter to defeat outright. lrp benefits more from the freedom of seeing a complex situation and not giving a shit about how people "expect" you to solve it, you do whatever you want to it because it's a very complicated and freeform game that allows for complicated and freeform solutions to issues.

i think the threat distinction is important to make, because mrp *does* benefit more from lower threat rounds on average, but to then take that as the most important aspect of what constitutes the difference between mrp/lrp expectations is where i disagree - the culture is a lot more complicated than that. i feel like this is perhaps an attempt to address the issues of the distinct identity each of our servers have, but i would also implore you to consider that things run deeper than this and that this solution may not fully be accounting for them.

THIS.
There are some players here that sees the MRP not as a place with less threat and sees it as a place to develop character stories.

My post in the peanut thread was about the general vibe and why I joined MRP in the first place, but did not explain why I STAYED.

This is why I stayed. And I think Dendy is speaking for me and the characters I interact with on a daily basis here. Just distinguishing the servers based on threat alone feels very sad for me, as I feel like people will not see it as a higher RP environment. There is a reason goons RP servers have an RP tag.

[Shellton(Mario)]

► Show Spoiler

This is at 8PM in the UK.
Manuel has more players than both LRP US servers combined.
People seem to like it.
Campbell however is dead, and I think would greatly benefit from being LRP. People play Basil because Sybils too hectic and Manual mandates a different playstyle that Basil just develops on a population basis.
I think Campbell could fill the same niche Basil does for the EU players, because Im convinced that not every LRP terrymain wants 100% chaos all the time but they don't really have that option.

Sybil normally pops off at around 8-9pm est, most NA people are still working or just getting home and making dinner or something at 8PM UK. Also Manuel has the power of na and eu behind itso its going to have a more stable pop compared to any of the lrp servers

[Rustybuckets6601]

Nah, I feel the culture between the servers relies more on the labels of rp than how much threat they have. As we have it now, I feel that there's an actual tangible difference between the types of players you'd see and I like it that way.

[Super Aggro Crag]

bad idea

[KateAnbolho]

I feel that something like this would cause the exact opposite of what many people are asking for when it comes to Manny. I also personally feel that the titles of the server set much more of an expectation on what to expect when it comes to the playstyle and expectations of the community the ether has, and getting rid of them poses to cause much more damage than good.

[RedBaronFlyer]

The longer I think about this the worst it gets. I like Manuel because it is able to (somewhat) manage both high and low threat rounds. The people wanting to “bring back old Sybil” are incredibly naive if they think dumping a bunch of LRP and MRP players onto one server is going to magically create the old Sybil.

I can guarantee you that 98% of LRP and MRP players do not give a single solitary shit about the other side of the fence. Not in a “the other side is bad!” way but in a “They have their server, we have ours” way. Obviously, there is a bit if crossover between the servers, but it isn't much.

Most of the “culture war” between the server is a couple people on Manuel being anal about LRP players acting LRP on Manuel and a couple of players circle jerking about “Manuel bad” on the Tgstation discord. (golly gee I sure do wonder why nearly all the MRP players get funneled onto the Manuel discord server)

[NecromancerAnne]

I don't think we can so conveniently put the genie back in the bottle and call it a day. I believe that ship has long sailed, and while the roleplay servers do offer an experience similar to the other two, it also offers room for experiences the other two servers simply don't cater for by merit of not having attracted the kinds of players interested in a mildly more character-based narrative across rounds.

I like interacting with the weirdo ocs people have conjured up on Manuel. And I don't really think they would thrive quite the same without the ruleset there to support it. I think it is doing a lot more heavy lifting for the roleplay servers than you give it credit.

I think, truly, that taking from the current roleplay servers the opportunity for not only having that environment but also the opportunity for high stress/high violence rounds is a mistake. And there is no sin in having a server with the balance that Manuel has. I am fully convinced those looking to remerge the servers are pining for a culture that simply isn't there anymore, or will not manifest in the way they think it will. In truth, I think it might result in a massive pop death for the low threat servers. It won't particularly result in engaging enough rounds for people to go to those servers frequently. And, potentially, we may see people move on to other servers in considerable numbers.

It is a gamble I feel isn't worth the risk.

[Ivan Issaccs]

► Show Spoiler

This is at 8PM in the UK.
Manuel has more players than both LRP US servers combined.
People seem to like it.
Campbell however is dead, and I think would greatly benefit from being LRP. People play Basil because Sybils too hectic and Manual mandates a different playstyle that Basil just develops on a population basis.
I think Campbell could fill the same niche Basil does for the EU players, because Im convinced that not every LRP terrymain wants 100% chaos all the time but they don't really have that option.

Sybil normally pops off at around 8-9pm est, most NA people are still working or just getting home and making dinner or something at 8PM UK. Also Manuel has the power of na and eu behind itso its going to have a more stable pop compared to any of the lrp servers

Im not concerned about the population count of Manuel or the LRP servers.
I dont think any of them need any change, they all have their fans clearly.
I just think Campbell right now is just completely dead. Its super rare I see ANYONE on it at all so Id like to see if it gets more use if it became a LRP server.

[CMDR_Gungnir]

You know what, I think this is a great idea.

Of course, LRP players will agree to have Manuel's rules brought onto them, right?

No? They won't? How shocking. What a coincidence. I doubt Manuel's players would like Manuel to run on the LRP Rules, either.

I don't go to them often, but I have in the past had some good times on the LRP servers. I enjoy having them in the back of my mind as a "If I feel in the mood for that kind of experience, they're there" option. But I still prefer the style that Manuel offers.

LRP players, as you can see in this thread, don't want to be brought onto the MRP Rules. And the MRP Players lose what they enjoy so dearly about the game, if they're brought onto the LRP rules.

There is no world, no way you can merge those two rulesets that would be appealing and satisfying to everyone. This is a horrible idea, and the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[Higgin]

I'm a lot less confident about the amount of weight the MRP ruleset itself is actually pulling for the experience on Manuel, but I'm not seeing close to a part of the application of it that the several staff members who predominantly admin there have testified to in this thread. I also predominantly play lowpop, so I run into a different experience than people catching "peak Manuel."

I think there's probably work to be done on the MRP rules, but it most certainly shouldn't be at the expense of what LRP players have and enjoy now.

[oranges]

I don't think we can so conveniently put the genie back in the bottle and call it a day.

sunk cost fallacy also it happened before look up badger.

[saprasam]

some of the mrp rules should not be implemented if there ever was a merge, like rpr 7 & 9 but im all for it

[dirk_mcblade]

Make sybil/terry high threat lrp, make bagil/Campbell low threat lrp

[Cheshify]

some of the mrp rules should not be implemented if there ever was a merge, like rpr 7 & 9 but im all for it

Out of curiosity, why not?