Enable roundstart malf ai on MRP

[TheRex9001]

Title, roundstart malf is a great antagonist that allows an ai to roleplay an evil machine and whilst midround malf comes in and is kinda clunky, messes with whatever story you have done up to that point as an ai roundstart malf does not fall into that trap. Roundstart malf lets you play as an evil computer and gives you more time for whatever gimmicks you have in mind, all without assassinating your previous character. Having talked to a lot of ai players they seem to agree, roundstart malf goes fucking hard.

[Timberpoes]

Context behind roundstart malf being disabled is that it was a compromise to allow AIs to murderbone in MRP before going delta. This change was made when I rewrote the murderbone rules.

[BrianBackslide]

I think this is one of those policy and code gray zones where there's not going to be a great compromise without code solutions. Roundstart malfy gets time to prep/hack APCs and get set up in a way that midround malfy doesn't; leading to the antag feeling underpowered at times. On the other hand, roundstart malfy would go back to being restricted to avoid roundstart plasmafloods and other such things.

[TheRex9001]

If you want policy for it, murderbone when you have the delta ability should be fully fine, and anything to convert people into the cyborg thing (n2o floods mainly) should also be fine game. Really I think allowing for roundstart plasmafloods isn't super bad, even on MRP given how rarely the antagonist rolls. We also have rules put in place about boring and repetitive murderbones.

[Redbert]

Malf AI is super rare on MRP as a result of not being enabled at round start, I would really like to see it more. Yes please!

[xzero314]

I believe that there are several reasons why it is not that big of a deal for A Roundstart Malf ai to be not only enabled but allowed to operate unrestricted like the mid round.

For 1) It is already possible for Manuel rounds to get very dislodged by an antagonist that was rolled shift start (Nukies,Cult,Revs,) As such the possibility of a shift start Malf AI killing alot of people is not something otherwise unseen on Manuel.

For 2) I believe that the design philosophy of the New Silpol encourages this (Silicons being free to act out how they like when purged). The distinction between a Purged ai and a malf ai is clear I understand that, However it would open the possibility of the AI starting off their Gimmick sooner as they don't need to follow laws right from the get go.

For 3) It is actively detrimental to the malf ai to go crazy shift start and out themselves instantly without some kind of preparation. If you roll shiftstart malf ai and instantly cut comms then kill off Sec it WILL get noticed and it will be OBVIOUS what is going on.

For 4) This kinda ties into the changes made to Changlings. You cant fix MALF. Once you know its malf you MUST kill the ai. Even leaving them carded is a safety risk incase a traitor or ling comes by and rescues them. With that in mind it makes SENSE that a malf ai has a pass.

For 5) It opens up a potential RP storyline to the round. Rolling Malf round start means you get to decide how to you act from the get go. A malf ai is ALWAYS VALID along with Friendly antags, but imagine the story of a malf ai that HASNT been silently killing off the entire crew and was otherwise fufilling its duties until it was found out. This would be a neat conflict for the Crew to decide if they want to go kill the potential Delta hazard sitting just over yonder in the SAT or leave them be. This you can already do as a midround Malf ai but the dynamic of it changes entirely when the AI never had to follow orders at all.

For 6) I just personally think it would be very neat. Ive never had an issue with the lack of prep time as malf ai (one time I deltad having gotten the malf roll after shuttle call) so I dont really see that as an issue I just think it would open up alot of potential fun and RP for AI players

[Drag]

We have removed murderbone restrictions on Lings when they are discovered, we should have the same logic applied to malf ai.

Let Ais say fuck

[Higgin]

Malf is enough of a slow burn that really benefits from the time to set up and play around with the atmosphere that it feels like we're leaving a lot on the table by not letting malf AI roll roundstart on MRP - even if it might end rounds sooner or lead to some rushes.

You see a blue APC, you should say "oh fuck."

I might hate silicons and think their balance has only gotten worse, but I mind it less with malf because it builds to something and should have everyone saying fuck.

[mrmelbert]

Context behind roundstart malf being disabled is that it was a compromise to allow AIs to murderbone in MRP before going delta. This change was made when I rewrote the murderbone rules.

I guess more accurately I was concerned about people who enabled malf JUST to play malf, not to play AI, nuking rounds ASAP. Though with the recent code changes to job / antag selection that concern is a tad diminished.

[Constellado]

With the current code and roundstart malf enabled, can people who have AI on low get picked for malf and end up playing malf instead of the person who has AI on high? Is that a thing?

Because if so, I'm a little bit against it as that can be a way to make an AI character that only shows up when you get picked for malf, which is a bit odd I think.

[xzero314]

With the current code and roundstart malf enabled, can people who have AI on low get picked for malf and end up playing malf instead of the person who has AI on high? Is that a thing?

Because if so, I'm a little bit against it as that can be a way to make an AI character that only shows up when you get picked for malf, which is a bit odd I think.

The way it is now specifically prevents people from antag rolling malf ai which is another good reason to re enable shift start malf ai.

[mrmelbert]

The way it is now specifically prevents people from antag rolling malf ai which is another good reason to re enable shift start malf ai.

Are you saying "me being able to antag roll is a good reason to re-enable it"?

[xzero314]

The way it is now specifically prevents people from antag rolling malf ai which is another good reason to re enable shift start malf ai.

Are you saying "me being able to antag roll is a good reason to re-enable it"?

No that is quite the misinterpretation. There was a change to make it so that if you only pick a highly contested roll (for example aI) on low and nothing else it makes you disqualified for antag rolls because you need more roles enabled. As such its not possible for antag rollers to hold the shift start malf ai roll hostage or just use it to antag roll. This is a reason why it wouldn't be the end of the world to re enable it since you need to have more roles enabled than just ai to be qualified to get the roundstart malf roll

[Striders13]

I believe that there are several reasons why it is not that big of a deal for A Roundstart Malf ai to be not only enabled but allowed to operate unrestricted like the mid round.

yea, there's no need for this compromise. Malf AI is enabled roundstart on lrp and I've maybe seen a roundstart plasmaflood ONCE. It's not really a viable strategy if you want to live.

[mrmelbert]

No that is quite the misinterpretation.

Understood, to be clear I wasn't accusing you of anything I was just genuinely confused.

[DrAmazing343]

I’m all for re enabling roundstart Malfy; as the others are saying, it’s very slow burn, and if you’re an active AI, rolling Malf is fun but total character assassination for whatever persona you’ve built up. If you’re roundstart malf, you can be immediately menacing or glitchy, and leave little signs to tip people off. It also makes the inevitable “I’m sorry, I can’t do that” moment far, far more weighty if you leave that DELICIOUS trail of bread crumbs for people to flash back to and lose their minds over.

A roundstart plasmaflood is obvious, will get you outed, and personally? I think a lot of our AI’s will enjoy taking an approach more crafty than that. It’s a staple, but it’d be boring to let the other shoe drop before you’ve tied the first one!

Let AI say fuck.

[xzero314]

Will we be hearing a possible verdict on this?

[TheBibleMelts]

i don't see an issue with re-enabling this. and if there is, it can always be reverted.

[Cheshify]

Sure yeah

Cheshify - Yes
TheBibleMelts - Ok whatever