MRP-ification of the LRP servers: A Dangerous Path

[itsswagga]

I was reading the appeals and saw viewtopic.php?p=718059#p718059

Nowell, the Captain, lasers an assistant to crit for walking into Bridge due to the rules saying you can lethal trespassers. Server was Terry (LRP)

The headmin TheBibleMelts is constantly asking what his "reasonable IC thinking" was for doing that. Apparently Nowell is evil because he was "being a dick" by critting a dude who trespassed in arguably the most important area in the game.

This is NOT how rules on LRP function. LRP has always been a binary, valid/not valid. It's not bloody "reasonable" to murderbone either, since you aren't accomplishing your objectives at all, are we going to ban murderboning on LRP too?
It's not reasonable to gib a human being and eat their meat, will the gibber refuse to accept humans unless the user is an antag?

If "being a dick" is the be-all and end-all, then is murderboning bannable now? Is roundstart delamming SM or speedrun maxcapping bannable? After all, those poor players were "just trying to have fun" and you were "being a dick" by killing them outside of your objectives.

And yes, I know this is how it works on Manuel which is MRP. BUT WHY THE HELL IS IT BEING ENFORCED ON TERRY? BLOODY TERRY?!

I mourn the MRP-ification of our LRP servers. We play Terry and Sybil for a goddamn reason, because they are the last bastions of LRP that isn't boring Goon, in a sea of MRP servers like Manuel, Paradise, Yogs, Fulp, Bee, Monke.

If people on Manuel are playing fast and wild, by all means, ban them. But to see this shit be enforced on LRP? What is going on?

As a veteran player, I noticed this MRP-ification trend start, when an admin bwoinked me randomly for killing people on station as an Ashwalker. Luckily it was just a note, but it was odd. Apparently I was supposed to just afk in Lavaland forever? Why were antags on LRP suddenly being subjected to murderbone rules? For years Ashwalker "greet text" was just flavor, but suddenly we had newbie admins influenced by MRP and fueled by a hatred of "LRP shitters", who started to treat background flavor as rules to enforce.

This is not to complain about the above situation, but just to note how TG LRP has been on a long downward spiral towards MRP due to new admins not understanding the LRP culture and policies.

I dread the day when an antag on Terry gets permabanned for non-hijack-objective bombing without adminhelping for daddy's permission first, just like on Paradise. I ask the headmins to respect the culture of LRP. Even if you think that us LRP players are "shitters", let us have our culture and policies and stop enforcing and forcefeeding us MRP rules. If we wanted to play on Manuel we would! Seriously, when I rarely play on Manuel I respect the MRP mindset and I actually RP instead of wordlessly spam-pointing and murderboning. I know that the players are there for Medium Roleplay and I don't want to ruin their fun. So why are MRP admins ruining LRP fun by treating LRP servers as if they were serious MRP?

[kinnebian]

what policy change are you proposing here
sorry for whatever happened im not reading all that

[itsswagga]

That the LRP servers are treated as such, rather than ruling them according to the MRP "my character is a realistic serious normal human being". Also the culture of the LRP servers should be respected. I don't like these weird shifts to try and slowly edge Terry and Sybil to MRP.

I truly unironically fear that one day the MRPers will attempt to make murderboning bannable. And it is at that point that TG has fallen and we are basically "Fulp but you can say ligger".

[NoxVS]

This is NOT how rules on LRP function. LRP has always been a binary, valid/not valid.

Citation needed.

It's not bloody "reasonable" to murderbone either, since you aren't accomplishing your objectives at all, are we going to ban murderboning on LRP too?
It's not reasonable to gib a human being and eat their meat, will the gibber refuse to accept humans unless the user is an antag?

If "being a dick" is the be-all and end-all, then is murderboning bannable now? Is roundstart delamming SM or speedrun maxcapping bannable? After all, those poor players were "just trying to have fun" and you were "being a dick" by killing them outside of your objectives.

This is currently not policy. You are free to suggest it as policy if you'd like to change that. Except for the gib part, that's code and out of the realm of policy.

I mourn the MRP-ification of our LRP servers. We play Terry and Sybil for a goddamn reason, because they are the last bastions of LRP that isn't boring Goon, in a sea of MRP servers like Manuel, Paradise, Yogs, Fulp, Bee, Monke.

If people on Manuel are playing fast and wild, by all means, ban them. But to see this shit be enforced on LRP? What is going on?

While you view it as MRP-ification, there isn't a single type of player on all our LRP servers. There are a LRP players that want some of the changes you likely view as evil MRPmins subjugating the innocent LRP player masses.

As a veteran player, I noticed this MRP-ification trend start, when an admin bwoinked me randomly for killing people on station as an Ashwalker. Luckily it was just a note, but it was odd. Apparently I was supposed to just afk in Lavaland forever? Why were antags on LRP suddenly being subjected to murderbone rules? For years Ashwalker "greet text" was just flavor, but suddenly we had newbie admins influenced by MRP and fueled by a hatred of "LRP shitters", who started to treat background flavor as rules to enforce.

I think the decision on this was actually made before Manuel existed.

This is not to complain about the above situation, but just to note how TG LRP has been on a long downward spiral towards MRP due to new admins not understanding the LRP culture and policies.

If you see admins failing to properly follow policy, feel free to make an admin complaint about it so it can be handled. As for culture, it's possible you see a disconnect because culture changes and is the sum of multiple players.

I dread the day when an antag on Terry gets permabanned for non-hijack-objective bombing without adminhelping for daddy's permission first, just like on Paradise. I ask the headmins to respect the culture of LRP. Even if you think that us LRP players are "shitters", let us have our culture and policies and stop enforcing and forcefeeding us MRP rules. If we wanted to play on Manuel we would! Seriously, when I rarely play on Manuel I respect the MRP mindset and I actually RP instead of wordlessly spam-pointing and murderboning. I know that the players are there for Medium Roleplay and I don't want to ruin their fun. So why are MRP admins ruining LRP fun by treating LRP servers as if they were serious MRP?

There are multiple different opinions on what LRP should be. I used to play nothing but LRP, but the creation of Manuel leeched away a core part of the community and quality dropped as a result, and I eventually switched to Manuel even though I was against the initial idea of it and was originally content to continue playing Sybil till the end of time. As a veteran LRP player who left because of the NRP-ification trend, I think if I was still playing on LRP I'd be happy to see the push towards restoring LRP to what it used to be.

Overall, none of this is policy. This is a headmin platform. Anyone is free to run for one of the three headmin positions to change the direction of the server.

[kieth4]

Every headmin term has their own vision of the game and it changes every 6 months. Your best bet to keep terry awesome and lrp is to vote and advertise for a pro lrp candidate next headmin election good luck

[dendydoom]

the real dangerous path is taking situations which you have minimal involvement in or knowledge of and simplifying them into black and white in order to extrapolate them out into some vague sentiment of condemnation around a feeling you don't like. almost the entirety of OP is pontificating about abstract nothings that haven't actually happened.

there is no conspiracy to turn lrp into mrp. the ban was placed on rules from the main rules that are enforced on lrp. there were mrp admins who felt differently about this ban. even i was on the fence about it. even now i think it's a bit of a dick move to wordlessly shoot someone who is unarmed, but it was on the bridge, which is the only thing that pushes it into being okay for me.

if you'd like some advice from someone who has not only seen how the sausage is made but is someone who pulls levers in the factory on the daily, it will be a lot more effective to analyze the actual situation instead of extrapolate things from it to fuel conspiratorial thinking. the headmin response focused on the importance of speaking to someone to understand the situation before killing them. the more realistic argument here is whether or not acting wordlessly in that situation and killing someone was fine because of the fact that it was the bridge they were breaking into, or not fine because as the person with the gun and the authority in that situation they had an opportunity to understand the situation more but instead chose to just open fire without saying anything.

there is also the fact that they didn't suitably get them medical attention afterwards - something which is covered by escalation. what's the importance of getting someone medical attention in that situation? are there any factors that you feel nullifies that responsibility too?

i will leave this thread open in the hopes that some decent discussion can be wrung out of it but my suggestion would be to create an argument based in reality, not the constantly shifting and manifesting fears and dread ever present in all of our minds at every waking moment. nothing can be done about "the servers are too mrp" - you will have to quantify what this means and make actual policy suggestions if you would like this to have a hope of enacting tangible change.

[kieth4]

the real dangerous path is taking situations which you have minimal involvement in or knowledge of and simplifying them into black and white in order to extrapolate them out into some vague sentiment of condemnation around a feeling you don't like. almost the entirety of OP is pontificating about abstract nothings that haven't actually happened.

there is no conspiracy to turn lrp into mrp. the ban was placed on rules from the main rules that are enforced on lrp. there were mrp admins who felt differently about this ban. even i was on the fence about it. even now i think it's a bit of a dick move to wordlessly shoot someone who is unarmed, but it was on the bridge, which is the only thing that pushes it into being okay for me.

if you'd like some advice from someone who has not only seen how the sausage is made but is someone who pulls levers in the factory on the daily, it will be a lot more effective to analyze the actual situation instead of extrapolate things from it to fuel conspiratorial thinking. the headmin response focused on the importance of speaking to someone to understand the situation before killing them. the more realistic argument here is whether or not acting wordlessly in that situation and killing someone was fine because of the fact that it was the bridge they were breaking into, or not fine because as the person with the gun and the authority in that situation they had an opportunity to understand the situation more but instead chose to just open fire without saying anything.

there is also the fact that they didn't suitably get them medical attention afterwards - something which is covered by escalation. what's the importance of getting someone medical attention in that situation? are there any factors that you feel nullifies that responsibility too?

i will leave this thread open in the hopes that some decent discussion can be wrung out of it but my suggestion would be to create an argument based in reality, not the constantly shifting and manifesting fears and dread ever present in all of our minds at every waking moment. nothing can be done about "the servers are too mrp" - you will have to quantify what this means and make actual policy suggestions if you would like this to have a hope of enacting tangible change.

This isn't a policy thread post so no discussion is actually going to come out of it.

I think something that often isn't mentioned is that there is a very strong sentiment that the lrp servers are being mrpified and it's a very fair argument to hold. Yes, the ban was placed and some people may disagree with it but now the rules are being changed to better reflect the feelings of the headmins. A good chunk of people from lrp who are aware of this are not entirely happy and feel that it is mrpfication. Are they right or wrong? Who knows, but I do not think that treating players who feel that way as almost conspiracy theorists is the way to go.

The servers shift and wane depending on the headmin term, as you hop from one to another there are various changes that get implemented and then taken back- it's probably entirely fair to suggest that the "level of roleplay" is getting uplifted this term, because there are various codifications made like about heads of staff having minimum requirements now and security having to do their job (even though I maintain that this is one of the worst written policy's I've seen). Is this attempted increase in level of rp good or bad? . People draw different lines where they see rp. The headmins say it's from nrp to lrp but players may view it as lrp to mrp. Eye of the beholder situation

Ultimately I feel that his opinion is a fair one to hold as are most opinions but this is not policy and would be better directed to the players club or some other place as it is a paragraph of copr

[dendydoom]

This isn't a policy thread post so no discussion is actually going to come out of it.

I think something that often isn't mentioned is that there is a very strong sentiment that the lrp servers are being mrpified and it's a very fair argument to hold. Yes, the ban was placed and some people may disagree with it but now the rules are being changed to better reflect the feelings of the headmins. A good chunk of people from lrp who are aware of this are not entirely happy and feel that it is mrpfication. Are they right or wrong? Who knows, but I do not think that treating players who feel that way as almost conspiracy theorists is the way to go.

The servers shift and wane depending on the headmin term, as you hop from one to another there are various changes that get implemented and then taken back- it's probably entirely fair to suggest that the "level of roleplay" is getting uplifted this term, because there are various codifications made like about heads of staff having minimum requirements now and security having to do their job (even though I maintain that this is one of the worst written policy's I've seen). Is this attempted increase in level of rp good or bad? . People draw different lines where they see rp. The headmins say it's from nrp to lrp but players may view it as lrp to mrp. Eye of the beholder situation

Ultimately I feel that his opinion is a fair one to hold as are most opinions but this is not policy and would be better directed to the players club or some other place as it is a paragraph of copr

indeed - my use of conspiratorial wasn't to discredit the right of a user to feel a certain way about something but the fact that

how TG LRP has been on a long downward spiral towards MRP due to new admins not understanding the LRP culture and policies

is a conspiracy.

the OP mentions TBM as a driver of this. he is old as dirt. his big rule changes come from shitloads of internal and public discussion. if anything he is trying to recapture his own memory of what lrp used to be like. as you already know and have experience of from when you were headmin, policy interpretation is done from the top down. the headmins making changes that they feel supports their vision of the game is the natural order of things working as intended - not some dark plot by the vanguard mrp party to destroy the lrpetariat.

my aim is to direct this obvious frustration into an outcome that is productive. if this thread wants to be a policy discussion, then my advice is to target actual policy that is misenforced, needs elaboration, needs changing, etc, and to form an argument around it that will get others onboard and push for a response from the headmins.

if this thread wants to be a bunch of soapboxing about the good old days then that is fine as well, i can easily move it to the player's club if the OP wants this. this is productive in its own right and i am not against it. as you also said, the times change with the term. if enough people support this sentiment, then they will have a vocal movement for the headmin election and the candidates will have to address it.

[Vekter]

LRP stands for Light Roleplay.

Let me make that a little clearer for you.

Light ROLEPLAY.

That means you're expected to at least somewhat roleplay. LRP servers aren't being turned into MRP. We're just enforcing the bare minimum standards that have been ignored for a long time now.

I'm sorry if the idea of having to talk to someone before you shoot them is terrifying to you, but that's how it works my friend, please look forward to it.

[kieth4]

This isn't a policy thread post so no discussion is actually going to come out of it.

I think something that often isn't mentioned is that there is a very strong sentiment that the lrp servers are being mrpified and it's a very fair argument to hold. Yes, the ban was placed and some people may disagree with it but now the rules are being changed to better reflect the feelings of the headmins. A good chunk of people from lrp who are aware of this are not entirely happy and feel that it is mrpfication. Are they right or wrong? Who knows, but I do not think that treating players who feel that way as almost conspiracy theorists is the way to go.

The servers shift and wane depending on the headmin term, as you hop from one to another there are various changes that get implemented and then taken back- it's probably entirely fair to suggest that the "level of roleplay" is getting uplifted this term, because there are various codifications made like about heads of staff having minimum requirements now and security having to do their job (even though I maintain that this is one of the worst written policy's I've seen). Is this attempted increase in level of rp good or bad? . People draw different lines where they see rp. The headmins say it's from nrp to lrp but players may view it as lrp to mrp. Eye of the beholder situation

Ultimately I feel that his opinion is a fair one to hold as are most opinions but this is not policy and would be better directed to the players club or some other place as it is a paragraph of copr

indeed - my use of conspiratorial wasn't to discredit the right of a user to feel a certain way about something but the fact that

how TG LRP has been on a long downward spiral towards MRP due to new admins not understanding the LRP culture and policies

is a conspiracy.

the OP mentions TBM as a driver of this. he is old as dirt. his big rule changes come from shitloads of internal and public discussion. if anything he is trying to recapture his own memory of what lrp used to be like. as you already know and have experience of from when you were headmin, policy interpretation is done from the top down. the headmins making changes that they feel supports their vision of the game is the natural order of things working as intended - not some dark plot by the vanguard mrp party to destroy the lrpetariat.

my aim is to direct this obvious frustration into an outcome that is productive. if this thread wants to be a policy discussion, then my advice is to target actual policy that is misenforced, needs elaboration, needs changing, etc, and to form an argument around it that will get others onboard and push for a response from the headmins.

if this thread wants to be a bunch of soapboxing about the good old days then that is fine as well, i can easily move it to the player's club if the OP wants this. this is productive in its own right and i am not against it. as you also said, the times change with the term. if enough people support this sentiment, then they will have a vocal movement for the headmin election and the candidates will have to address it.

Apologies! I thought you were referring to his overall sentiment as opposed to the specific part.

[itsswagga]

My main gripes are with the way (he)admins are handling TG as a whole.
MRP and LRP are two VERY distinct playstyles and mindsets.
I think it is about time that the MRP/LRP split on TG be solidified.
MRP and LRP should have their own rulesets. I know that the current rules mention some things being ignored on LRP, but it would be beneficial to both parties if they were made separate. MRP rules could have additional rules tacked on like "no building combat mechs for no reason" and LRP rules could remove or clarify some of the weirder rules like "no preparing for X threat" which tend to get abused. Making singletank bombs for no reason is not the same as deliberately changing atmos pipes to prevent a "potential" AI plasmaflood. One is a general weapon, and the other is actually a problem; but they're treated as if they're the same thing

MRP and LRP bans should also be separate, there is no reason that a player who is banned from Manuel for making meth instead of medicine as chemist should not be allowed to play on Terry and Sybil


This blurred line between MRP and LRP is why I say it's a dangerous path. It's not a conspiracy theory. I genuinely think that if the "MRP-ification" of the LRP servers reaches a certain point, people in charge will try to ban murderboning and other "LRP shitter" behaviors they dislike, on the LRP servers themselves.

And as precedent I point to BeeStation. It used to be known for it's LRP and was a lot more popular, until it slowly slid into MRP and one day murderboning was banned and every antag had to follow the damn checklist or be perma'd.

[CPTANT]

if this thread wants to be a bunch of soapboxing about the good old days then that is fine as well, i can easily move it to the player's club if the OP wants this. this is productive in its own right and i am not against it. as you also said, the times change with the term. if enough people support this sentiment, then they will have a vocal movement for the headmin election and the candidates will have to address it.

Players only have influence on 1 headmin choice.



Other than that, I hate how rule 1 is being abused to crush all forms of conflict. Being a dick has lost all meaning. There used to be this understanding that instigating conflict was fine, but now it is only held to its literal meaning and anybody not offering tea and cookies to other crewmembers is "being a dick".

[Vekter]

My main gripes are with the way (he)admins are handling TG as a whole.
MRP and LRP are two VERY distinct playstyles and mindsets.
I think it is about time that the MRP/LRP split on TG be solidified.
MRP and LRP should have their own rulesets. I know that the current rules mention some things being ignored on LRP, but it would be beneficial to both parties if they were made separate. MRP rules could have additional rules tacked on like "no building combat mechs for no reason" and LRP rules could remove or clarify some of the weirder rules like "no preparing for X threat" which tend to get abused. Making singletank bombs for no reason is not the same as deliberately changing atmos pipes to prevent a "potential" AI plasmaflood. One is a general weapon, and the other is actually a problem; but they're treated as if they're the same thing

MRP and LRP bans should also be separate, there is no reason that a player who is banned from Manuel for making meth instead of medicine as chemist should not be allowed to play on Terry and Sybil


This blurred line between MRP and LRP is why I say it's a dangerous path. It's not a conspiracy theory. I genuinely think that if the "MRP-ification" of the LRP servers reaches a certain point, people in charge will try to ban murderboning and other "LRP shitter" behaviors they dislike, on the LRP servers themselves.

And as precedent I point to BeeStation. It used to be known for it's LRP and was a lot more popular, until it slowly slid into MRP and one day murderboning was banned and every antag had to follow the damn checklist or be perma'd.

I mean, I don't want to sound like a cunt, but all I'm getting from anything you're writing is "I don't want the head admins telling me I can't just wordlessly kill people".

I've said it before and will say it again - If you are here to treat SS13 like a social deduction game, a really complicated version of TTT, you are playing the wrong game.

The "No preparing for a threat" rule makes sense because the crew does not know when a threat is going to happen or what that threat will be, so why would they be preparing for it? The only context in which that makes sense is if you're not treating the game like a roleplaying game.

E: Let me try to explain this better as someone who's been in the community for over 10 years. The general RP divide between servers goes something like this:

LRP: Play a character. That character doesn't necessarily have to be extremely well thought out with a backstory or anything, but it still has to be a character. You can play a clown who just goes around honking their horn at people. An assistant who shoves every authority figure they see because they think they're nerds. You don't have to put a ton of effort into it, but you have to put some effort in. You should have viable IC reasons for your actions, even if those reasons aren't the most well thought-out or realistic. Fun sometimes takes priority over RP, which is why rule 4 exists, but at the end of the day, you should have a basic reason behind what you're doing that doesn't boil down to "It's funny" or "I wanted to".

MRP: Play a believable character. Put some thought into who your character is. They should be on the station for a reason, have goals, have reasons for their actions. Maybe our authority figure shoving assistant from the LRP example is doing so because they don't trust Nanotrasen or those they put in a position of power. Maybe that clown steals shoes because it makes it easier to slip people? Things like that. Your character doesn't need to be completely fleshed out, but it needs to at least kind of make sense. You have to stay in your lane because it doesn't make sense that a person would know how to do anything and everything on the station, but we allow some leeway in cases where nobody else would be able to do it. Antags have to do things that make sense to being an antag. They can't kill anyone they want because their goals don't align with doing so; if the Syndicate wanted a traitor to get in, steal a hand teleporter, then escape, why would that traitor be killing everyone in sight? That's not what they asked them to do.

HRP: Play a complete, believable character. Have a backstory for your character, explicit reasons why they do anything and everything that fits with their previous experiences. Things carry over between rounds. Characters are expected to act 100% believably, which is why you often hear about HRP servers banning people for things like stealing something they had no reason to steal. Your character should act the way someone would realistically act on a space station. This isn't everyone's cup of tea (I think it's too restrictive for a game like SS13) which is why we don't have one. That experience already exists in a lot of other places.

None of our servers involve no RP whatsoever. If that's what you're looking for, this isn't the place for you. In my opinion, the head admins aren't doing anything to change things other than bringing LRP back closer to what it was before the Sseth video was released and we had a large influx of players who looked at the game more as a funny meme simulator than a roleplaying game.

[CPTANT]

The idea that "wordlessly killing" amount to NRP is dumb in the first place. There are plenty of situations where that is perfectly fine IC, for example people trespassing high security areas like the armory, AI upload or *gasp* bridge.

[dendydoom]

if this thread wants to be a bunch of soapboxing about the good old days then that is fine as well, i can easily move it to the player's club if the OP wants this. this is productive in its own right and i am not against it. as you also said, the times change with the term. if enough people support this sentiment, then they will have a vocal movement for the headmin election and the candidates will have to address it.

Players only have influence on 1 headmin choice.

yes! however candidates usually answer questions posed to them because it's good to do so, and even the host pick will do this even though their premiership is guaranteed at that point. typically all candidates will join in on a topic that has a lot of traction behind it.

the lofty ambitions that are heralded throughout the election period tend to come crashing back down to earth the moment it's over anyway - managing a community is dizzyingly complex and requires something more tangible than some idyllic platitudes about returning to the land of milk and honey.

[kieth4]

if this thread wants to be a bunch of soapboxing about the good old days then that is fine as well, i can easily move it to the player's club if the OP wants this. this is productive in its own right and i am not against it. as you also said, the times change with the term. if enough people support this sentiment, then they will have a vocal movement for the headmin election and the candidates will have to address it.

Players only have influence on 1 headmin choice.

yes! however candidates usually answer questions posed to them because it's good to do so, and even the host pick will do this even though their premiership is guaranteed at that point. typically all candidates will join in on a topic that has a lot of traction behind it.

the lofty ambitions that are heralded throughout the election period tend to come crashing back down to earth the moment it's over anyway - managing a community is dizzyingly complex and requires something more tangible than some idyllic platitudes about returning to the land of milk and honey.

U also need the other two to say yes which is probably the hardest part

[TheBibleMelts]

Sligneris is right. I am really opposed to roleplay, and I do believe it is gay/cringy/autistic. /tg/ has always been the laissez-faire server where you won't be banned for not following the boring objectives as a traitor/ling, and you don't need to 'ahelp to make sure it's ok!' constantly before you do anything antagonistic. The "RP" thing really does become a mantra, I don't want us going down the slippery slope and ending up like Yogs or Paradise

[Vekter]

Sligneris is right. I am really opposed to roleplay, and I do believe it is gay/cringy/autistic. /tg/ has always been the laissez-faire server where you won't be banned for not following the boring objectives as a traitor/ling, and you don't need to 'ahelp to make sure it's ok!' constantly before you do anything antagonistic. The "RP" thing really does become a mantra, I don't want us going down the slippery slope and ending up like Yogs or Paradise

I actually think that we should be more like Yog and ban people for using "gay" or "autistic" as a pejorative.

[Cheshify]

Oh ok it's the time of the year people are making baseless accusations and grand standing so they get internet popularity points. We're killing LRP by encouraging interactions! We're killing MRP by loosening antag restrictions! Considering what you've been quoted on saying before, I doubt this rant thread has any merit as policy.

The elections aren't even up yet, so save the fear mongering for later.

[Screemonster]

The idea that "wordlessly killing" amount to NRP is dumb in the first place. There are plenty of situations where that is perfectly fine IC, for example people trespassing high security areas like the armory, AI upload or *gasp* bridge.

I just remembered one of the times I was hrp adminning and a secoff saw a non-command member *gasp* standing in the bridge next to the bridge secretary (glorified assistant with bridge access)
immediately the alert went out over sec comms calling for backup to deal with GRAND TRESPASS and the whole sec team stormed the bridge with a borg to open the doors and everything, and started yelling at the intruder to make it easy on themselves and come quietly and so on, just yelling at them
and finally the HoS wandered over to see what all the fuss was about, saw two secoffs and a borg facing this person down but nobody having actually made a move yet, and just...
"yo, bridge sec, did you let her in here?"
"yes"
"... then it's not fucking trespassing is it, everyone fuck off"

in the appeal linked in the OP, the main point of contention was whether the guy that got shot could be considered valid with the information the captain had available to him - if the guy had been let into the bridge by another head for whatever reason and the captain just walked out of his office and blasted him on sight then nobody would be questioning him eating a ban for jumping to lethals without establishing that the dude was actually valid first.

[conrad]

I thought the ruleset of LRP was being shifted towards MRP too one day.

I then realized, in an embarassing way, that I was wrong, and current existing rules were simply not being enforced. Most rules text change this term was just the same thing with more or less words.

So yeah idk what you're talking about here, or objectively what you want. You sound salty over something that isn't a problem for the server, just a personal distaste.

I doubt a headmin term would read this and sympathise on a policy level.

[NoxVS]

Players only have influence on 1 headmin choice.

There’s nothing stopping players from winning the others. It’s just a case where the type of player that’d be a good headmin tends to also be the type of player that’d be a good admin. If you’re active enough to be considered, have been shown to contribute positively to the server, and show signs you’ll make a good admin, chances are you’ve already been offered admin or could easily get it.

The host vote is picked by the previous 3 headmins. This is pretty difficult for a player to win because it can be picked before the campaigning even begins. They’ll probably be coming to you rather than you putting yourself forward as a candidate. If no one has any clue who you are or that you would be a good headmin, you aren’t getting picked. Even if you are known you are competing with the other admins for recognition, and that’s an uphill battle I’ll expand upon for the admin vote. On the bright side, this vote can vary wildly from general admin consensus because you only need 2(?, can’t remember if it’s unanimous but probably just 2) votes to win.

The admin vote is picked by all the admins. I think this is probably the hardest vote for a player to win, unless you are truly exceptional. You need the majority of admins to support you over other admins, and all those other admins have significantly greater recognition of each other than a random player. Players can be broken up into groups based on server that generally have similar recognition - Sybil players will recognize Sybil admins, Terry players will recognize Terry admins, Manuel players will recognize Manuel admins, etc. This recognition can extend beyond servers but tends to be difficult for players, which is why admins tend to win the player vote. This doesn’t really apply to admins. Admins know each other. We’ve spent time hanging out in chatter and in individual server asay, we’ve discussed policy with each other in bus and are probably vaguely familiar with what kind of platform an admin would support.

Overall, to win the admin votes as a player you need to somehow be someone they’d pick to be headmin when they wouldn’t pick for you to be an admin. And even if they’d pick for you to be headmin, they’d probably rather pick an admin they are familiar with over you.

[Cheshify]

I'm just locking this. There's no policy to be had here.