Head Shaving

mosquitoman · Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:56 pm

Bottom post of the previous page:

Jacough wrote:Being on fire should cause your hair to burn off over time if you're not wearing fireproof gear. After a minute of being on fire you go completely bald and maybe get a bit of flavor text as well. Great for trolling people who prefer super kawaii long hair

I recommend using the clippers that are already in the game for that purpose. You'd be surprised how confrontational some fagets get when you try shaving them bald

.

onleavedontatme · Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:54 pm

Screemonster wrote: It's not the specific nitty-gritty details of it - in fact, boiling things down to a million tiny little clauses and subclauses and "can I do this" and "can I do that" is pretty much how these line-toeing shitters operate. The only important question here is "did this person go out of their way to fuck with someone who was minding their own business?"

Should just replace the rules with these guidelines honestly.

callanrockslol · Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:04 pm

Kor wrote:
Screemonster wrote: It's not the specific nitty-gritty details of it - in fact, boiling things down to a million tiny little clauses and subclauses and "can I do this" and "can I do that" is pretty much how these line-toeing shitters operate. The only important question here is "did this person go out of their way to fuck with someone who was minding their own business?"
Should just replace the rules with these guidelines honestly.

We already have a rule that states don't be a dick so this is covered.

mosquitoman · Post by **mosquitoman** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:10 pm #104279

Aliannera wrote:Basically what I get from this thread:

Be a dick all you want, but don't whine and bitch when you get dicked back.

No, that's not it at all, you missed the point completely.

TheNightingale · Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:23 pm

mosquitoman wrote:
Aliannera wrote:Basically what I get from this thread:

Be a dick all you want, but don't whine and bitch when you get dicked back.
No, that's not it at all, you missed the point completely.

No, that's pretty much it. If you're needlessly going out of your way to impact someone else's round negatively (e.g. tabling, head-shaving, even just disarming in the halls for no raisin), don't be surprised if your victim retaliates. If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

Xhagi · Post by **Xhagi** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:33 pm #104287

mosquitoman wrote:
Aliannera wrote:Basically what I get from this thread:

Be a dick all you want, but don't whine and bitch when you get dicked back.
No, that's not it at all, you missed the point completely.

Then I'll rephrase it.

Don't be a dick. If you still choose to be a dick, don't be surprised and whine when you get dicked back.

And yes, shaving someone is being a dick. It matters not how severe of a dick you're being, you're still being a dick. If you can't handle the consequences of your actions then don 't do those actions. It 's that simple.

Arete · Post by **Arete** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:26 pm #104304

People claiming that murdering someone for shaving your head is bad because "light roleplay" are completely off base. What's the roleplay justification for shaving people's heads at random in the first place? Is your character just so random and insane? 'Cause we've got rules about those kinds of justifications already.

The fact that we're playing a shitty BYOND game is always going to limit the degree of roleplay that's possible. If you don't want to protect killbaiting shitlers, there are two options: either ban people for head shaving, or accept that there's an element of hyperviolent comedy here and people getting dunked for aggressively trying to waste people's time is perfectly in line with the flavor. When you go out of your way to waste a minute or two of someone's time, you lose the right to cry about it when you have to wait a few minutes before playing again yourself.

mosquitoman · Post by **mosquitoman** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:12 pm #104336

The next time I'm randomly tabled or disarmed I'm robusting the guy no matter what it takes.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:18 pm #104337

I'll be sure to increase the length of your ban from the usual nonantag murder then.

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:24 pm #104339

But you're saying being randomly griefed by someone is enough justification to kill them, why is he not allowed to do it for stating it?

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:25 pm #104340

Because reading comprehension, and lack thereof.

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:12 pm #104360

Why is it so damn hard to not stretch everything to the utmost breaking point? Admins want to give people a little more leeway in dealing with people who fuck with them and people immediately start declaring thier intent to abuse the fuck out of it as soon as possible. What the fuck why

Amnestik · Post by **Amnestik** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:31 pm #104383

Malkevin wrote:
Amnestik wrote:This thread is extremely dumb. Head shaving is so benign and easy to fix that next you'll be calling people valid for equally benign things, like picking someone's pockets, slipping them or tabling them.
Its not about head shaving your dunderhead, its about the broader question of "If x is a jerk to y, does x still get admin protection when y decides to plow x's skull?"

Why are you so pissy about getting your head shaved that you feel the need to murder the person who did it? It just seems like you're looking for an excuse to valid. But maybe you really do take it that personally when someone shaves your head in SS13.

Kor wrote:
Screemonster wrote: It's not the specific nitty-gritty details of it - in fact, boiling things down to a million tiny little clauses and subclauses and "can I do this" and "can I do that" is pretty much how these line-toeing shitters operate. The only important question here is "did this person go out of their way to fuck with someone who was minding their own business?"
Should just replace the rules with these guidelines honestly.

That's a vast oversimplification, and you must realise it. There are different levels of "fucking with someone". This one is completely benign. People should learn to take a joke, instead of looking for excuses to murder people.

Screemonster wrote:"oh it's just two minutes to go to the dorms" - that's two minutes of their time that they didn't want to spend going to the dorms and just wanted to play spessmans.

What map have you been playing where it takes two minutes to go to the dorms and fix your haircut? On box it should take about 30 seconds if you aren't significantly injured.

Screemonster · Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:41 pm

Wyzack wrote:Why is it so damn hard to not stretch everything to the utmost breaking point? Admins want to give people a little more leeway in dealing with people who fuck with them and people immediately start declaring thier intent to abuse the fuck out of it as soon as possible. What the fuck why

Yeah.

"lol I'll take this as a greenlight to kill them then" is precisely what I was talking about when I said fuckwits twiddling the letter of the rules to argue that their dickish behaviour is somehow okay because of "rule 3 subsection a clause iv oh god so many cocks huuaallagulaghulagh"

just don't be a fucking prick

how is this a difficult concept

Amnestik wrote:People should learn to take a joke

People should learn that going out of their way to fuck with other people for no reason whatsoever besides their own gratification is only funny for the person doing it. Try that argument in real life sometime.

And I mean real life after high school.

Amnestik · Post by **Amnestik** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:48 pm #104390

I don't go around shaving people's heads in real life, if that's what you're concerned about. I don't even do it in the game. If I did do it IRL though, I somehow doubt the victim would murder me for it.

The point is, murdering someone for shaving your head isn't fair escalation. It's grossly disproportionate. I'm not sure why this is so hard to gather.

Jacough · Post by **Jacough** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:55 pm #104392

Malkevin wrote:Because I play Spessmens and therefore am likely to be a nerd like the rest of you?

Yes, I was bullied in school. And you know what I did about it?
I took up karate.

Well that explains a lot.

Put yourself in the shoes of the victim.
You're just standing in the hallway, minding your own business, when some arsehole clown shoves you to the ground and shaves your hair off - its publicly humiliating.
You're asking that a player, who is being good, has to put up with and deal with some other player, who has decided to be a jerk for no reason other than it gives them a slight chuckle - you're telling me this isn't going to be infuriating to some people and actually drive off the good players?

Unless they're seriously autistic or something, then no. I don't think it's going to drive off good players. You know why? A good player wouldn't spend 10-15 minutes trying to chase down and beat the clown to death and trying to explain why they murdered the clown to security as well as an admin while hoping they won't get banned or thrown in perma instead of you know, slapping the clown around a couple of times and then taking under a minute to go up to a mirror to get their hair back. That's less of getting revenge and more of being a valid seeking faggot. I've had the prank done to me a couple of times and you know what? I just laugh because it's amusing and has absolutely no effect on me playing the game. Maybe it's because I was never bullied and suffer massive PTSD attacks from being bullied in high school or maybe it's just because I realize that it's just a stupid video game and can actually see the comedy in a clown running around with an electric razor slipping people and shaving their heads.

The go out of their way part is the important thing here. "oh it's just two minutes to go to the dorms" - that's two minutes of their time that they didn't want to spend going to the dorms and just wanted to play spessmans.

Again, it'd take you a lot longer to try to hunt the clown down over something that has literally no effect on you other than giving you a shiny cue ball head. Shit, unless you're really that sensitive about your 2D spessman's hair you could just immediately go back to whatever you were doing. It's not like losing your shoes where you run the risk of getting knocked down by stepping on broken glass or getting your ID stolen where you need to hope the HOP is still at his post just so you can do your job. It literally affects you in absolutely no way other than having a bald head.

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:57 pm #104393

It's mildly irritating. Do you seriously need to.irritate people to have fun?

Arete · Post by **Arete** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:58 pm #104395

Amnestik wrote:I don't go around shaving people's heads in real life, if that's what you're concerned about. I don't even do it in the game. If I did do it IRL though, I somehow doubt the victim would murder me for it.

The point is, murdering someone for shaving your head isn't fair escalation. It's grossly disproportionate. I'm not sure why this is so hard to gather.

How is it disproportionate? Depending on the state of the station at the time, you could be defibbed and cryo'd in about as much time as it takes a headshaved person to fix themselves. On the balance of things, it'll take you a bit longer to get back into the round, but that's what you get for fucking with someone and not being robust enough to handle the retaliation.

Amnestik · Post by **Amnestik** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:05 pm #104400

Arete wrote:
Amnestik wrote:I don't go around shaving people's heads in real life, if that's what you're concerned about. I don't even do it in the game. If I did do it IRL though, I somehow doubt the victim would murder me for it.

The point is, murdering someone for shaving your head isn't fair escalation. It's grossly disproportionate. I'm not sure why this is so hard to gather.
How is it disproportionate? Depending on the state of the station at the time, you could be defibbed and cryo'd in about as much time as it takes a headshaved person to fix themselves. On the balance of things, it'll take you a bit longer to get back into the round, but that's what you get for fucking with someone and not being robust enough to handle the retaliation.

Maybe you won't ever be able to get to the dorms or locker room or theatre to fix your hair. Maybe the singularity has destroyed central primary and you don't have the space suit necessary to navigate it. It doesn't change the fact that this is an entirely cosmetic issue, and a bizarre thing to care about.

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:12 pm #104405

Amnestik wrote:
Malkevin wrote:
Amnestik wrote:This thread is extremely dumb. Head shaving is so benign and easy to fix that next you'll be calling people valid for equally benign things, like picking someone's pockets, slipping them or tabling them.
Its not about head shaving your dunderhead, its about the broader question of "If x is a jerk to y, does x still get admin protection when y decides to plow x's skull?"
Why are you so pissy about getting your head shaved that you feel the need to murder the person who did it? It just seems like you're looking for an excuse to valid. But maybe you really do take it that personally when someone shaves your head in SS13.

I'd respond to this, but seeing as I told you exactly what I would've said in the post you fucking quoted I'll just call you a jelly brained retard and call it a day.

Jacough wrote:That's less of getting revenge and more of being a valid seeking faggot.

[youtube]qKkkj1VgNus[/youtube]

Valids are called valids because they are valid, end of.
If a valid comes up and bites you on the arse you didn't seek it, it sought you.

Ipso Facto, you are a moron.

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:14 pm #104407

Amnestik wrote:
Arete wrote:
Amnestik wrote:I don't go around shaving people's heads in real life, if that's what you're concerned about. I don't even do it in the game. If I did do it IRL though, I somehow doubt the victim would murder me for it.

The point is, murdering someone for shaving your head isn't fair escalation. It's grossly disproportionate. I'm not sure why this is so hard to gather.
How is it disproportionate? Depending on the state of the station at the time, you could be defibbed and cryo'd in about as much time as it takes a headshaved person to fix themselves. On the balance of things, it'll take you a bit longer to get back into the round, but that's what you get for fucking with someone and not being robust enough to handle the retaliation.
Maybe you won't ever be able to get to the dorms or locker room or theatre to fix your hair. Maybe the singularity has destroyed central primary and you don't have the space suit necessary to navigate it. It doesn't change the fact that this is an entirely cosmetic issue, and a bizarre thing to care about.

Its almost like people are attatched to their characters as a vehicle for roleplaying that you're fucking with in a very personal manner.

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:17 pm #104412

My character is a space dorf, he's very proud of his manly beard and flowing locks.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:44 pm #104423

Ikarrus wrote:Its almost like people are attatched to their characters as a vehicle for roleplaying that you're fucking with in a very personal manner.

I'm enjoying this weird disconnect where people forget we try to pretend this is a roleplaying server.

Not-Dorsidarf · Tue Jul 14, 2015 9:25 pm

I don't get how on the one hand, you say "We need a metabubble of security against people killing people for minor transgressions like B&E (See: Lizard thread)", whilst also saying "If you mess with my snowflake, I spend entire round hunting you down and murdering you instead of kicking you a bit and getting on with the game"

specyalic · Post by **specyalic** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 12:18 am #104451

headshavers: we want to shave heads and not get killed
anti-headhavers: we want to hunt down and kill headshavers

Post by **oranges** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:43 am #104496

If you get mad over your head being shaved in a game then you are literally autistic.

At the same time, if you start shit with someone make sure you're more robust than them when you do it.

Amnestik · Post by **Amnestik** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:12 am #104526

Ikarrus wrote:Its almost like people are attatched to their characters as a vehicle for roleplaying that you're fucking with in a very personal manner.

I dunno guy. That still strikes me as pretty odd. It's just hair, you can fix it 90% of the time. If the station is fucked and you can't reach a mirror, then you're stuck being bald for the rest of the round (which probably won't be very long). Big deal. Shaving heads is only slightly more severe than slipping people. If you murder the guy for it, you're taking the game too seriously. It's an easy thing to do, but shouldn't be encouraged by admins IMO.

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:17 am #104529

I'm not encouraging anything. I'm just not punishing people for retaliating.

Amnestik · Post by **Amnestik** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:21 am #104530

Ikarrus wrote:I'm not encouraging anything. I'm just not punishing people for retaliating.

It really depends on what sort of retaliation you're allowing. Shaving someone's head isn't on the same level as murder, surely. I can understand beating the person for it, but taking them out of the round seems obviously excessive to me.

Not-Dorsidarf · Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:20 am

Killing someone for shaving your head is basically the same thing as killing someone for doing the ol' waterslip->popout of closet with foam armblade-> hit them a bit -> run off.

Actionb · Post by **Actionb** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 9:43 am #104586

Love how people just overgeneralize like crazy and jump straight to the 'MUST KILL SHAVER' part.
Got your head shaved? Can't take a joke/feel like shaver is being a dick? Robust the shaver. No, it doesn't mean kill-lockerweld-space. Knock him out and take his shaver (and mask if clown). He's in crit now? Then drag his gasping body into a public place or straight to medbay.
If you kill him right away, you're just as much as a shitter as the shaver.

It should just be a minor scuffle between two people, stop trying to invent more snowflake policy safety nets that impact like 1% of rounds but would get admins involved for a thing that is purely IC.

oranges wrote:At the same time, if you start shit with someone make sure you're more robust than them when you do it.

SS13 in a nutshell.

TheNightingale · Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:45 am

We could just take the Bay route and make being a dick for no raisin bannable.

Kelenius · Post by **Kelenius** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 12:12 pm #104612

Or you could stop being the type of people that absolutely must kill everyone the moment they know they won't get banned for it. You have two almost full pages of people defending their right to kill people for a very minor thing.

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 12:27 pm #104617

And almost of two full pages of people that can't seem to grasp the concept that some of us don't want to have to put up with jerks.

Xhagi · Post by **Xhagi** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:43 pm #104667

Which gets down to the problem of how to handle jerks. Putting up with them is not an option for some people, so how should it be handled? ICly via being robusted and possibly killed, or OOCly via admins and banning?

I mean myself, I would punch them some, maybe place them in crit if I could, but I would drop them in medbay or somewhere public. But is that an okay response? Will I get bwoinked for it, or is it an acceptable response? Which, I think, is what needs to be clarified.

Kelenius · Post by **Kelenius** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:10 pm #104676

Wahhhh he shaved the head of my 2d spessman which would take me 10 seconds to fix bawwww I must kill him wahhhh he's being a jerk to me.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:12 pm #104677

Solution: Put a PR up to remove razors and fists.

TheNightingale · Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:19 pm

Kelenius wrote:Wahhhh he shaved the head of my 2d spessman which would take me 10 seconds to fix bawwww I must kill him wahhhh he's being a jerk to me.

It's not the action itself so much as its meaning. It means "I'm going to go out of my way to annoy you, deal with it" - and they can't complain when their victim does deal with it, in a particularly violent way. It'd be better not to have anyone randomly shaving heads at all, but there will always be that sort of player here, unfortunately.

Arete · Post by **Arete** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:19 pm #104679

Kelenius wrote:Wahhhh he shaved the head of my 2d spessman which would take me 10 seconds to fix bawwww I must kill him wahhhh he's being a jerk to me.

"Wahhhh he killed my 2d spessman which will take 2 minutes to revive bawwww I must ban him wahhhh he's being a jerk to me."

Cool, you managed to find a really useless style of argument!

Xhagi · Post by **Xhagi** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:32 pm #104685

TheNightingale wrote:It's not the action itself so much as its meaning. It means "I'm going to go out of my way to annoy you, deal with it" - and they can't complain when their victim does deal with it, in a particularly violent way. It'd be better not to have anyone randomly shaving heads at all, but there will always be that sort of player here, unfortunately.

This. I would say it isn't so much shaving people but people being shits in general, and how to handle those being annoying. Because, as I said, some people do not like putting up with annoying shitlers.

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:10 pm #104694

What people need to remember is that for hostile actions there are OOC punishments and there are IC punishments.

If Sec finds out you killed a guy because he shaved your head there's a good chance they're going to arrest you and throw you in the gas chamber.

Let the admins ask the question "Who was being an asshole first?"
And let security ask "Was that response appropriate?"

And of course, people are forgetting that death isn't final - there are four ways to get revived as your character, bored medical doctors ARE watching the suit sensors, and failing that there's a couple of ways to respawn as a new character.

Kelenius · Post by **Kelenius** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:16 pm #104695

Or you could be nicer to each other and don't take it as HE SHAVED ME HE HATES ME AND WANTS TO ANNOY ME STOP GRIFFING ME YOU JERK. Because, look. You get shaved. You can a) realize that it's, first, just a game, second, a roleplaying game, and that someone shaving you doesn't mean that they are out on their way to annoy you in every way possible and just laugh at it (together) or b) take it as a personal offence, murder him because muh valids, and hold a grudge over him. Which one of these options makes both sides more happy?

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:28 pm #104696

Why does any of this even matter to you?
You just posted on singulo that you're glad you've quit TG and gone to Bay.

Quite frankly I'd like you and others of your ilk to piss off, its tiring having you little hanger ons that stick around just shit up policy discussions with an irrelevant opinion on a server they don't play on and have no intention of playing on.
I still play here, I want to keep playing here, and I want the server to return to its old roots I remember fondly.

Xhagi · Post by **Xhagi** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:40 pm #104697

Also saying 'it's Roleplay :^)' when you probably have no reason to run around shaving people other than 'my character is just so random!' Which is in the rules anyway of being not okay.

At the end of the day I would rather RP and play the game and do the job I desided to play in it than I would want to deal with random annoying shitlers running around shoving/tabling/shaving/etc. people at random for the sake of being little shits. That's why people want them to be valid, so they're out of the round and no longer an annoyance, not because of an attachment to their character as those against it seem to think.

In essence, don't be a fucking dick and you won't get dicked back. Be a dick and don't complain when someone decides they won't put up with your shit anymore. I don't know why I have to repeat this, it should be easy to understand.

Arete · Post by **Arete** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:47 pm #104699

Kelenius wrote:Or you could be nicer to each other and don't take it as HE SHAVED ME HE HATES ME AND WANTS TO ANNOY ME STOP GRIFFING ME YOU JERK. Because, look. You get shaved. You can a) realize that it's, first, just a game, second, a roleplaying game, and that someone shaving you doesn't mean that they are out on their way to annoy you in every way possible and just laugh at it (together) or b) take it as a personal offence, murder him because muh valids, and hold a grudge over him. Which one of these options makes both sides more happy?

That depends, doesn't it? If it's a boring round, maybe both of us are looking for something to do. Shaving someone's head is a pretty crystal clear way of saying "I want to play with you, let's see what you've got." And I'm happier when I've gotten robusted in an interesting way than I am when nothing's happening.

If you think that the game is most enjoyable when people avoid imposing consequences on each other, you're probably going to have more fun playing with like-minded people. But I don't think most players on this server are looking for that kind of consequence-free experience.

Post by **Shaps-cloud** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:15 pm #104706

yeah I don't get it, do you think that randomly shaving people's heads is good RP or what

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:17 pm #104708

Because we're currently at a standoff between

Spoiler:

and

Spoiler:

Kelenius · Post by **Kelenius** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:54 pm #104718

Malkevin wrote:Why does any of this even matter to you?
You just posted on singulo that you're glad you've quit TG and gone to Bay.

First, that's not me, second, I do play on tg.

Good RP? Who's talking about that? Certainly not me, so don't put words into my mouth.

You could just, you know, chill. What's with this "I gotta murder everyone who looks at me the wrong way"?

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 9:23 pm #104729

Funny thing is I probably wouldn't kill someone for shaving my hair, probably beat them up a little but that's it.
I mean I've been playing LW for about two months now and I've yet to kill someone.

I'm basically the Voltaire of spessmens,
I may not agree with why robust someone, but I'll defend to the death your right to robust them.

Xhagi · Post by **Xhagi** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 9:40 pm #104736

Saegrimr wrote:
Spoiler:

I think this picture in general describes this thread.

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:48 am #104786

Could we get a concrete statement from the admins stating what is considered acceptable retaliation? Will I be banned if I give somebody plastic surgery, a failed sex change, and give them brain damage, so long as I don't actually kill them? Because I'm getting mixed signals on whether that's acceptable.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Thu Jul 16, 2015 2:25 am #104790

Luke Cox wrote:Will I be banned if I give somebody plastic surgery, a failed sex change, and give them brain damage, so long as I don't actually kill them? Because I'm getting mixed signals on whether that's acceptable.

Depends on what he did to you in the first place. Did he shove you in the hall and call you a cunt? Then enjoy your day off from the server.

Use your damn head, stop heading full-ass in one direction or the other as far as situations go.