FNR Animal Killing/Gibbing

Post by **MMMiracles** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:36 am #129537

I just experienced a round that really rustled my jimmies.

I did science work, I went around upgrading the machines, including the chef's gibber. HoP was currently cooking food for Ian, who was currently controlled by a player.

Afterwards, Ian dies from the heat of a plasma fire in the kitchen, so I take it upon myself to get him revived via laz injector, even if that means mining the ores for the points myself. While talking to the QM about any active miners, some assistant lizard comes up, stares for a moment, then proceeds to grab Ian and make a beeline for arrivals. I follow them, they get to the locker room and manage to shove Ian into the washing machine before I take my screwdriver to their eye-sockets. Repetitively. I manage to drag Ian out of the machine and give the assistant a couple more kicks before leaving them in the locker bathroom, the shuttle is called at this point as a rogue AI spreads plasma everywhere.

About 5-10 minutes after dying in EVA trying to get Ian to mining, I get bwoinked by an admin because the grayshirt apparently ahelped. I spend the next 10ish minutes explaining why this rule is retarded in this situation and that the cunt shouldn't expect to do something like that and not expect any repercussions. Now I'm here.

I get this rule is in effect for examples like the few people who play solely to stroke their validboner and drop everything at the sight of potential valids. The issue here is that this rule literally only exists because of a playerbase problem, not a game problem. The admins I even talked to agreed that I should of been in the right for this situation, but policy is policy. It literally exists to protect the baiting shitters and prevent the valid-seekers from having another excuse to robust something, which is honestly awful because these types of people shouldn't even be allowed to play here in the first place. The fact the assistant in question has the audacity to whine to an admin and in deadchat about the situation just makes it even worse.

TheNightingale · Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:59 am

If we make killing pet-killers valid, they'll do it anyway, for the "thrill of the chase". So let's make killing/gibbing station pets FNR bannable, as per the "greytiding troublemaker" rules.
... We have those, right?

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:02 am #129543

MMMiracles wrote:I spend the next 10ish minutes explaining why this rule is retarded in this situation and that the cunt shouldn't expect to do something like that and not expect any repercussions. Now I'm here.

Arguing about a set policy after you've already broken it is a great way to start off.

When its "no" its not "no, but"

He didn't twist your nuts and jump eye-first on your screwdriver. You willingly chased him down to, as you put it, stroke that validboner.

Post by **MMMiracles** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:04 am #129545

Saegrimr wrote:
MMMiracles wrote:I spend the next 10ish minutes explaining why this rule is retarded in this situation and that the cunt shouldn't expect to do something like that and not expect any repercussions. Now I'm here.
Arguing about a set policy after you've already broken it is a great way to start off.

When its "no" its not "no, but"

He didn't twist your nuts and jump eye-first on your screwdriver. You willingly chased him down to, as you put it, stroke that validboner.

So Im suppose to just ignore the fact he stole Ian's body from me when I was trying to get him revived, because...?

When I follow him to literally watch him shove Ian in the washing machine, its pretty fucking obvious what they're about to do, and they're doing it solely to be a giant cunt.

If you feel the need to go out of you're way to be a dick to someone else don't complain when that person dicks you back even harder.

Post by **Shaps-cloud** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:10 am #129547

I figured that you were totally allowed to beat the shit out of the dude or whatever but you couldn't kill him and hide his body, cause going out of your way to kill and gib Ian is a dick move and you know you're gonna piss people off by doing it

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:11 am #129548

Had you actually put some effort into reviving him beyond talking to the QM about an already dead dog before someone stole the already dead dog, and making already dead dog in multiple just-as-dead pieces.. Maybe?

Or you know, if this guy is being such the rampaging incorrigible dickhead that isn't fit for playing on this server then maybe ahelp before you go jumping straight to nonantag murder.

TheNightingale · Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:14 am

MMMiracles wrote:If you feel the need to go out of your way to be a dick to someone else don't complain when that person dicks you back even harder.

It's literally the first rule we have - don't be a dick. Putting Ian in a washing machine to start a fight is breaking this rule, no?

If you do something obviously meant to antagonise someone, and they rise to the bait... what did you expect? You can't adminhelp and try and get them banned. They're allowed to rise to that bait, because you put it there, and if you're going to be a dick, people will be a dick to you.

(What if the "don't be a dick" rule was actually enforced?)

Post by **MMMiracles** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:19 am #129550

Saeg apparently keeps ignoring the parts where I talked about getting a laz injector for Ian and even dying in attempt to get EVA gear for it.

I'm pretty sure being aggressive to the person that literally just tried to turn the station's mascot into a meat slurry with a washing machine isn't that hard to see as proper escalation. Even more-so when they grabbed Ian from me in the first place in attempt to do it.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:23 am #129551

That's because you left those parts out. Timeline that you gave me.

>Ian dies from the heat of a plasma fire
>"I take it upon myself to get him revived via laz injector, even if that means mining the ores for the points myself."
Implies you haven't done it yet, but were going to.
>While talking to the QM about any active miners,
Implies you haven't even gotten to that point yet, but were asking about it
>some assistant lizard comes up
>stabby stab stab

So again, had you actually done anything aside from dragging a dead dog around asking for handouts... maybe?

Post by **MMMiracles** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:27 am #129552

I didn't realize I wasn't suppose to care when some nameless assistant tries to turn the animal I'm trying to revive into a meat slurry, as said above.

How the else am I suppose to react? Am I just suppose to ignore he stole Ian from me and tried to gib him? Are my intentions of wanting to actually heal him not enough to kick the assistant's shit in for doing what they did?

I'm sure the story would be much more different if it was a sentient crewmember instead of a sentient animal, right? The whole basis of the story changes when instead of caring about a fluffy corgi, its a person, right?

Jesus christ man how can you be this dense.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:35 am #129553

You give me a half-assed story about breaking a rule and i'm gonna give you a half-assed response.

Post by **NikNakFlak** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:37 am #129554

Got a name of the assistant who stole Ian's dead body

Post by **MMMiracles** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:41 am #129556

I don't know the exact name but I know they played as a gray lizard. HBL was one of the admins on who talked to me about the situation so they might know.

All I can get from this thread so far is that I shouldn't give a shit about the well-being of simple mobs and I should let shitters get their way when it comes to ban-baiting.

TehSteveo · Post by **TehSteveo** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:43 am #129558

NikNakFlak wrote:Got a name of the assistant who stole Ian's dead body

Speaks-Her-Mind

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:54 am #129559

TehPear wrote:Speaks-Her-Mind

nvm valid tbh

CPTANT · Post by **CPTANT** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:22 am #129601

You can murder someone for not fucking off from you workspace, but you can't defend your pets?

Its a completely non functional policy and all pets do now is act as banbait.

Not-Dorsidarf · Mon Oct 26, 2015 1:33 pm

CPTANT wrote:You can murder someone for not fucking off from you workspace, but you can't defend your pets?

Its a completely non functional policy and all pets do now is act as banbait.

You can't murder someone for workplace hoboism.

You can do literally anything else but rule 8 'em though.

CPTANT · Post by **CPTANT** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 1:40 pm #129619

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:
CPTANT wrote:You can murder someone for not fucking off from you workspace, but you can't defend your pets?

Its a completely non functional policy and all pets do now is act as banbait.
You can't murder someone for workplace hoboism.

You can do literally anything else but rule 8 'em though.

"- You may defend your workplace from trespassers who damage or steal property within that space with significantly greater force than elsewhere. If someone is severely disruptive and returns after ejected, this opens them up to "fun" of the creative workplace death variety. "

Not-Dorsidarf · Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:19 pm

Well that's new.

bandit · Post by **bandit** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:34 pm #129631

Saegrimr wrote:He didn't twist your nuts and jump eye-first on your screwdriver. You willingly chased him down to, as you put it, stroke that validboner.

And if he hadn't chased the lizard down, would he have just gone "gee golly willickersss, I was jussst taking Ian for a walk"? It's funny, people bitch a lot about MUH RPS and NO ONE RPS ANYMORE but I sure don't think it's roleplay to see someone's dog and beat the shit out of it with a toolbox or shove it into a washing machine for no reason.

I was under the impression that policy was still that pet-killers are valid by the owner of the pet. If not it should be. Also, I should probably be banned because the last time I was HoP a few days ago I beat the shit out of an assistant who murdered Ian and cloned her just so I could leave her bucklecuffed on the bridge all round (she was fine with it).

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 5:42 pm #129672

bandit wrote:And if he hadn't chased the lizard down, would he have just gone "gee golly willickersss, I was jussst taking Ian for a walk"? It's funny, people bitch a lot about MUH RPS and NO ONE RPS ANYMORE but I sure don't think it's roleplay to see someone's dog and beat the shit out of it with a toolbox or shove it into a washing machine for no reason.

And if (someone else's) dog was already dead?
I mean, i'm pretty sure that plasma fire was pretty valid for killing Ian, so he should go fuck up that vent/canister like it owed him money.

bandit wrote:I was under the impression that policy was still that pet-killers are valid by the owner of the pet. If not it should be.

We had that for a while too, and people abused it. Strangely, instead of just letting me permaban the one major offender they opted to just changed the policy on it.
Prime example of no fun allowed because one person will ruin it for everybody.

Post by **MMMiracles** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 5:51 pm #129678

You keep mentioning how the dog was already dead, well yeah. If it wasn't dead why would I of been trying to get ahold of a laz injector for Ian in the first place?

The fact there's an issue with me being able to kick the shit in of some ass hat who felt the need to gib the same dog I was trying to save is why this thread exists in the first place.

As I said, there wouldn't of been an issue if it was a dead coworker instead of a dead corgi player, right? That's stupid.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:12 pm #129689

Because you don't get to claim a corpse you found as your best new friend 4 lyfe and anybody that fucks with it is now valid.

Post by **MMMiracles** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:26 pm #129691

I claimed it as a corpse I had full intention of reviving, kinda hard to do that when it's splattered over the locker room floor, isn't it?

God forbid I care about another player right?

rockpecker · Post by **rockpecker** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:02 pm #129699

TheNightingale wrote:(What if the "don't be a dick" rule was actually enforced?)

Then nothing interesting would happen. Because we're apparently proudly zero-RP here, and that means you CANNOT be a dick in character while still wanting other players to enjoy the game.

See, on /tg/ there's The Game (going to your assigned job, turning on the engines, doing R&D, mining the asteroid, getting murdered by antags, calling the shuttle) and then there's Disrupting The Game (everything else), which is bannable.

bandit · Post by **bandit** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:13 pm #129703

Saegrimr wrote:And if (someone else's) dog was already dead?
I mean, i'm pretty sure that plasma fire was pretty valid for killing Ian, so he should go fuck up that vent/canister like it owed him money.

"WHAT THE FUCK WHY ARE YOU BEATING MY GRANDMOTHER TO A PULP WITH A FIRE AXE"
"dude she was already dead lol"

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:15 pm #129704

"WHAT THE FUCK WHY ARE YOU GROWING STATION DESTROYING XENOMORPHS?"
"because i want to jam their gooey bits into my chest lol"

Come on, dude.

bandit · Post by **bandit** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:20 pm #129708

A) station has a xenobiology department, it is not a stretch to imagine maybe they'd want to do biology on some xenos once in a while
B) breeding xenos is much less of a griff-dickish thing than killing pets fnr

rockpecker · Post by **rockpecker** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:24 pm #129709

More seriously, though, isn't this the kind of case where you should call security?

Post by **MMMiracles** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:28 pm #129711

I think security was too preoccupied with the ai plasma flooding at the time, so I don't think I would of seen a response.

bandit · Post by **bandit** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:48 pm #129715

>implying security ever responds to things like this

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:54 pm #129718

bandit wrote:A) station has a xenobiology department, it is not a stretch to imagine maybe they'd want to do biology on some xenos once in a while
B) breeding xenos is much less of a griff-dickish thing than killing pets fnr

Are you really pulling a real-world hypothetical and then calling out an actual in-game situation as believable.

Post by **MMMiracles** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:58 pm #129720

I mean, for xenomorphs, the only possible way for them to get out is a player-error or purposeful error. You can also farm them for organs and hides, which both have uses (organs moreso than hide, but w/e).

The other one involves desecrating a loved one, which would probably invoke a violent reaction.

You gotta be pretty fucked up from an IC perspective if you don't see a problem with desecrating the corpse of a poor corgi, even moreso when you know someone else is going out of their way to revive it.

Screemonster · Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:23 pm

I really can't see stealing Ian's body and running halfway across the station to gib it as anything other than going out of your way to be an asshole.

"going out of your way" are the real key words there.

edit: and ahelping when someone dunks you for it sounds pretty fuckin banbaity tbh

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:28 pm #129752

Yes, and:

Saegrimr wrote:Or you know, if this guy is being such the rampaging incorrigible dickhead that isn't fit for playing on this server then maybe ahelp before you go jumping straight to nonantag murder.

CPTANT · Post by **CPTANT** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:31 pm #129754

Saegrimr wrote:Yes, and:
Saegrimr wrote:Or you know, if this guy is being such the rampaging incorrigible dickhead that isn't fit for playing on this server then maybe ahelp before you go jumping straight to nonantag murder.

ohw yay, more OOC intervention because players can't be trusted to play the game.

onleavedontatme · Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:39 pm

It' so weird that we accept spacemen are unhinged and liable to respond to any threat/annoyance with exteme violence but we draw the line at pet killing. Getting into a fistfight over a wet floor that turns into a fireaxe murder is perfectly normal but killing someone who kills and desecrates your pet in front of you is apparently too far and bad roleplay.

Thats an action that would probably inspire violence/assault in real life normal people nevermind in spacemen where life doesnt matter.

TechnoAlchemist · Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:44 pm

The policy says what it says.

However, I think that wordlessly grabbing and gibing Ian's corpse especially since they were a player is a dick move.

I think the lizard got what they deserved. Don't antagonize people if you're not willing to deal with the consequences

Shad0vvs · Post by **Shad0vvs** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:01 pm #129768

I've had sec and hos's that don't give a shit that a pet was killed because its "not against space law" even if you capture and hand them to them, they just let them go, so sec isn't an option. Basically if you're the HoP you get to watch someone come in and kill Ian just because they can and there's not a single punishment for it, and you can't do anything about it IC because a shitty OOC policy change.

CPTANT · Post by **CPTANT** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:46 pm #129785

We can murder people for reading WgW on the radio, we can murder people for being called Hitler, we can murder people for not getting the fuck out of your workspace.

But when someone just decides to fuck with you for no reason and kill a pet its suddenly "just a pet in a game"

How about we stop punishing people for dunking people that go out of their way to be huge turds?

What was wrong with the old policy again? That people killed pets just to get hunted? Well they now just read WgW or wait in your workspace till you have had enough of him.

This is a situation that can be dealt with in game just fine.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:05 pm #129798

CPTANT wrote:What was wrong with the old policy again?

I have no idea, i'm not the one that changed it.

Actually i'm not certain about the whole reading WGW thing now that I think about it. I remember it being removed and just to start bwoinking people for spamming or something but I just set their disabilities to retarded levels and wait for them to kill themselves out of frustration.

CPTANT · Post by **CPTANT** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:08 pm #129801

Saegrimr wrote:
CPTANT wrote:What was wrong with the old policy again?
I have no idea, i'm not the one that changed it.

Actually i'm not certain about the whole reading WGW thing now that I think about it. I remember it being removed and just to start bwoinking people for spamming or something but I just set their disabilities to retarded levels and wait for them to kill themselves out of frustration.

How is that better than just lynching them? Why can't we leave things IC as much as possible?

Deitus · Post by **Deitus** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:12 pm #129802

i kill pets pretty often but dont ahelp when it happens, i know what im getting into. its slightly annoying when you get spaced for it but shit happens.

i dont kill for pets dying, but if i did i wouldn't space/hide the body. im a shitter, but im not THAT big a shitter

Shad0vvs · Post by **Shad0vvs** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:22 pm #129804

Do an ingame poll to bring back petkillers are valid, with an option for the whole crew, or just the person for who's pet it is, or to leave it how it is now.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:26 pm #129806

This is actually an already in-progress discussion in the administrator forums.

TheNightingale · Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:25 am

Instead of making pet-killers valid (which is what they want - because then they can retaliate, they can run, they get their chase on), why not just make killing pets FNR against the rules? Serious question. Pull the weed up at the root, not the leaves.

rockpecker · Post by **rockpecker** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:39 am #129825

CPTANT wrote: How is that better than just lynching them? Why can't we leave things IC as much as possible?

Exactly. My point is that this is a perfect situation for IC resolution (via calling security, or good old vigilante justice otherwise). The admins are not the super-duper backup security force that you call when regular security is too busy and understaffed to handle your problem. They're the admins. They have a different function.

TheNightingale wrote:Instead of making pet-killers valid (which is what they want - because then they can retaliate, they can run, they get their chase on), why not just make killing pets FNR against the rules? Serious question. Pull the weed up at the root, not the leaves.

Because it is NOT ACTUALLY BAD BEHAVIOR BY THE PLAYER. "People who kill Ian" are not a weed that needs to be uprooted from the game for the good of everyone else. They're creating drama and chaos, which are things we want. You now have your choice of response: fight back, call the cops, get a posse together, hold a funeral, do nothing.

Shad0vvs · Post by **Shad0vvs** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:39 am #129826

TheNightingale wrote:Instead of making pet-killers valid (which is what they want - because then they can retaliate, they can run, they get their chase on), why not just make killing pets FNR against the rules? Serious question. Pull the weed up at the root, not the leaves.

I'm pretty sure they can't retaliate like someone who reads WGW can't retaliate as its ban baiting.

TheNightingale · Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:50 am

rockpecker wrote:Because it is NOT ACTUALLY BAD BEHAVIOR BY THE PLAYER. "People who kill Ian" are not a weed that needs to be uprooted from the game for the good of everyone else. They're creating drama and chaos, which are things we want. You now have your choice of response: fight back, call the cops, get a posse together, hold a funeral, do nothing.

Isn't it the job of antags to cause drama and chaos, not bored assistants with fire extinguishers? I mean, that's what they're there for, after all - to antagonise. Killing someone's pet is pretty antagonistic, no? "People who flood plasma" aren't weeds either, because there are perfectly legitimate reasons (like... being a traitor AI). It's not too hard to leave antagonising to the antagonists, though. If you kill Ian because you get a kick out of stabbing 2D corgis, you might want to rethink your life.

Post by **oranges** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:59 am #129831

tbh if you try to drag something away from me I'm gonna beat the shit out of you