Can you attack the HOS for mutilating crew w/o explanation?

Oldman Robustin · Sat Jul 30, 2016 3:25 am

Tried to bring this up in Asay and Shadowlight blew of all my limbs and tongue (what a great admin!) for trying to discuss policy with a Headmin (the horror!).

So let's get this squared away because I can't stand inconsistent policy and the fact people get banned/free pass depending on who's sitting in the bus.

1) HoS starts chopping the limbs off someone in public, they're valid to the HOS but nobody else knows this or knows why that person is having their limbs chopped off
2) HoS offers no explanatiion in advance for why they're mutilating people
3) Random crew attack HoS to stop him from being an utter psychopath

Who's in the right here? How far can the crew go in trying to stop the HoS or get revenge for their de-limbed crewmate?

My stance was that if you want to act like a sadistic psychopath as HoS, it's valid, but the HoS also makes themselves valid if they don't even bother to explain why they're acting like an unhinged nutjob. Shaps disagrees and thinks its bannable to attack the HOS under those circumstances. As it stands, certain admins will ban you for attacking the HOS under those circumstances and other admins will say "Its an IC issue". Having inconcistency in our decisions is a bad place to be and this is not an overly complex fact-set, so how about we get a ruling on just how much information you need before attacking a Cap/HOS who's doing their best KGB impression.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Sat Jul 30, 2016 3:29 am #199613

Why does this sound like an exact copy of the situation from yesterday?

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=7399

Okand37 · Post by **Okand37** » Sat Jul 30, 2016 5:43 am #199633

I really think it's being blown out of proportion for a single dayban. If you want to talk to the headmins, do it privately like everyone else instead of using the ingame admin chat as a pager.

TechnoAlchemist · Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:12 am

Patrolling fnr almost makes me wish for a nuclear winter

Post by **oranges** » Sat Jul 30, 2016 11:13 am #199681

I kill HoS's and get away with it, you just gotta have friends in the admins.

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Sat Jul 30, 2016 12:32 pm #199696

Saegrimr wrote:Why does this sound like an exact copy of the situation from yesterday?

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=7399

Well seeing as this is a thinly veiled "I got punished for being a dick but it was the other guy's fault i was being a dick" post.

Umm.. maybe you should try asking why he took over and have some patience because maybe he's dealing with asshat clowns and roided up miners trying to break in and fuck shit?

HoS's duty is to enforce the law and keep the order for the benefit of nanotrasen, he doesn't have explain himself to asshats that got bored of their job and so shirk their own duties to interfere with his.

TheNightingale · Sat Jul 30, 2016 1:37 pm

Before you mess with Security, make sure you know as much as you can about the situation first. Understand that, although you don't have all the information, they probably know more than you about why they're doing something. It's okay to ask "Hey, why are you doing {unusual act}?".

Cheimon · Post by **Cheimon** » Sat Jul 30, 2016 5:20 pm #199742

It certainly wouldn't hurt to ask for an explanation first, yeah. Attacking straight after they went for the clown doesn't seem like an ideal way to escalate things.

In the proper context, it might be entirely reasonable to attack the HOS. But that context would be trying to find out why they did it, trying to make them aware you don't like it, and (ideally) making it a public discussion so that other people can be aware of the problem and pick a side.

After all, attacking the HOS for him attacking someone isn't that far from attacking the HOS for arresting someone (or attacking a changeling, or gang member, or revolutionary). If you're not sure why they're doing it, it's not reasonable to assume the worst (that the HOS is just about to kill for fun).

I'm not saying this in reference to a specific event, because "policy discussion" is for making generalisations, not ban appeals.

Oldman Robustin · Sat Jul 30, 2016 6:02 pm

Saegrimr wrote:Why does this sound like an exact copy of the situation from yesterday?

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=7399

Because it is?

I haven't gotten an opinion from Kor or Leo. Kor sounded skeptical in IRC but admitted he had only skimmed the ban.

Shaps locked his own appeal, the ban ended, and now there's no reason for anyone to "overturn" it, but I absolutely loathe the policy behind it. I wouldn't enforce it myself and just for shits and giggles I played HoS for a round with an axe on his back and would de-limb every antag I found in the hall. No shock that 2 people tried to attack me over it - one of whom ended up getting lynched when they pushed + stunned + stripped me.

My own understanding of our policy made a lot of sense. The HoS is PERMITTED to run his show like "Space Gestapo" but the crew then gets an IC-reason to try and stop him. Whereas a lot of our policy in the past 4 years has shifted (especially since removal of sec antags) to give Sec a "presumption" of lawfulness so that you can't just attack officers for cuffing someone, I think that presumption goes out the window if you want to make public mutilation your calling card. To think that we would STILL give admin protection to security who try to inflame the crew with the most obscene and grotesque punishment without even explaining themselves feels like admin-enforced ban-baiting; and it further empowers antags who infiltrate security. Given that sec records/sec comms are not available to like 90% of the crew, what is the difference between a HoS running hacking up every antag in the records versus a changeling/traitor running around hacking up random crew.

The reason I'm still at this is:

1) I think it's a bad decision. Policy is my thing, having a sane policy here is what makes Sybil such an attractive server. I hate the idea of being forced to ban people for bad policy.
2) I could literally get 12+ people banned a day if I played HoS and publicly chopped off limbs instead of just executing/perma'ing people. Plenty of players (like myself) would not just stand by if the HoS is acting more like an antag than the antags themselves.
3) Ironically when I actually played a round like #2, Shaps threatened to ban me. Because attacking an HoS in that context is bannable, but so is playing the HoS in that context. Literally what.
4) Shitcurity is not uncommon and this debate will come up again, this is just the first time I've seen someone banned in this context. Our motto used to be "act like an antag get treated like an antag". Now I'm struggling to think of ways security could even make themselves valid to the crew.

Sidon · Post by **Sidon** » Sat Jul 30, 2016 11:52 pm #199835

If the HoS does this and doesn't give a good reason, he shouldn't expect a good time.

Oldman Robustin · Sun Jul 31, 2016 2:42 am

Just had a beautiful round highlighting why HoS shouldn't get admin protection for murdering people in the halls:

1) Traitor somehow ends up as HoS
2) He runs around killing random crew + wanted people
3) Sec is a little disturbed by this but since he isn't actually killing sec, nobody seems to care enough
4) Nobody can actually attack the HOS as he runs around genociding the crew without talking to anyone because nobody has ALL DA DETAILS, victims are dead before they can yell for help so nobody actually has a clue who is mass-murdering since the HOS spreads their kills out every 2-3 minutes.
5) If someone tried to kill the HOS, Shaps could have banned them since the HOS's "valid" kills against wanted traitors looked almost identical to him cutting down random crew every few minutes.

Antags posing as security is not a new or novel concept, they should NOT get admin protection if they want to murder or mutilate people in public without explanation.

TheNightingale · Sun Jul 31, 2016 2:56 am

"Hey, HoS, why did you kill that guy in the hall?"
[Silence]
"Security, why'd your boss kill that guy?"
"I'unno... let me check. Hey, boss, why'd you kill that guHURK"
"Yep, HoS rogue, get the stunprods."

If you care enough to want to kill the HoS, you care enough to ask what's happening.

Post by **Archie700** » Sun Jul 31, 2016 4:47 am #199922

"Why the fuck is the HoS killing everyone with little evidence?"

There.

AnonymousNow · Sun Jul 31, 2016 5:07 am

TBF, we've recently had a spate of Heads of Security who make it their thing to delimb people over minor crimes (or non-crimes). I think it started with one player, and spread to multiple players like a memetic disease - we were told that the original player was banned, but they seemed to re-emerge several times.

I nearly got delimbed myself by these people. I was a CMO, having just arrived to the station, and the detective is at medbay, trying to order me to open chemistry for them. I said "No" and went to my office. Head of Security came for me personally five minutes later, presumably for undermining his authority by not engaging his impolite underling. Was saved by a rational security officer who couldn't believe what was happening.

There is something very wrong here.

Davidchan · Post by **Davidchan** » Sun Jul 31, 2016 5:19 am #199934

If security is wordlessly arresting, beating or killing some in public view its their responibility to give a reason or announce the why they are doing something.

As a pro tip to sec players: follow space law. Enforce the punishments in it and don't allow people to deviate from them.

Hos already had a riot on his hands. He abducted a member of that mob and proceded to use lethal force to dismember that person. In full view of the mob.

If the hos, the one guy who's suppose to keep sec in line, is doing this or encouraging it. Job ban them.

If a non-sec person tried that, sec would be well within their rights to use lethal force to stop the crime. So if a sec member does it, I'm sec is not a valid excuse and if the crew kills you its your own damn fault for behaving like an antag.

ShadowDimentio · Sun Jul 31, 2016 6:15 am

I've de-limbed someone as HoS only once. It was a librarian that ran up into the warden's room behind me and chainstunned me and the warden for a good 30 seconds. He had his arms cut off for his disarming of the warden's baton and taser.

Post by **Cobby** » Sun Jul 31, 2016 6:55 am #199950

If you wordlessly do something <antagonistic> [See: Chopping Clowns arms off publicly without saying why / Couping the Captain], for any reason, then you should at least hide it, tell any spectators why you're doing it, or face vigilante Justice for acting like an antag. Even though we know OOCly that the HoS is antag-immune, that doesn't mean It's ICly accepted because anyone has the ability to disguise as the HoS [the difficulty depends on their tools].

Hell, causing a mutiny opens a can of worms for FUN. Simply doing a mutiny in itself should void any and all protection you have in a round because of loyalists to the Captain [specifically THE TRUMP]. Doing a mutiny basically creates a pseudo-rev, and you're the equivalent to the head-rev. Why anyone would complain about being cucked when they're the ones that incited a mutiny [even if other heads were alright with it] is beyond me.

To me, the benefit of the doubt of being "friendly HoS who saved the day from evil capitan" was removed when you started delimbing someone after Oldman had asked why without telling him. If you can't be arsed to say "he tried to beat me" but click over and over until his limbs fall off [after you allegedly just stole the captain's chair and sent him to "the gulag"], that to me means you're trying to get as many kills in while you can.

If wearing red makes me immune to being attacked via banhammer then I'm going to definitely take advantage.

Shadowlight213 · Sun Jul 31, 2016 8:08 am

Oldman Robustin wrote:Tried to bring this up in Asay and Shadowlight blew of all my limbs and tongue (what a great admin!)

Thanks for saying I'm a great admin! I do my best.

Post by **Archie700** » Sun Jul 31, 2016 8:30 am #199964

Please remember that the clown who was delimbed by the hos attacked the hos with thrown spears when the hos tried to disable him for breaking windows in bridge.

And after the mutiny on the captain, the station was relatively quiet with no counter-mutinies for 20 minutes. It was only when the HoS was beating the clown for attacking him that oldman attacked. And even when the clown was being beaten, he was still attacking.

Just because the HoS is delimbing someone in front of everyone doesn't mean you can jump on them for being "valid to kill". Not everyone thinks "I must explain why I'm killing the clown while he's killing me." You make the mistake of assuming people are rational and aren't controlled by their emotions.

Davidchan · Post by **Davidchan** » Sun Jul 31, 2016 8:43 am #199968

Antags kill because someone attacked them with semilethal force

Security detains criminals for using potentially lethal force.

Security doesn't get the right to kill anyone who attacked them once. Whether arresting the clown was valid or not, mutilating and torturing him in public display for everyone to see is not acceptable.

Post by **Archie700** » Sun Jul 31, 2016 9:02 am #199972

Davidchan wrote:Security doesn't get the right to kill anyone who attacked them once.

Act like an antag, get treated like an antag.

If you're going to throw spears at security when they try to stop you from greytiding, you have no right to complain when security is beating you to death. You basically escalated the situation by attacking, and regardless of whether it's a distraction or you really want to kill them, you already made yourself valid, and they are going to stop you.

Davidchan · Post by **Davidchan** » Sun Jul 31, 2016 9:12 am #199974

You're either a die hard security player looking for an excuse to kill anyone who annoys you or have no understanding of escelation.

The clown threw a spear, after the hos failed to disable him why the hos didn't just taze him, I don't know. But he detained the clown. Cuffed and stripped in the bridge. Situation is resolved and de escelated. Hos should have turned his attention to the angry mob or call back up. Hell lock down the bridge if windows are breached.

What does he do? Re escelates the situation even further by brutally hacking crew apart. Not twenty minutes after gulaging the captian for not complying with space law the hos throws it all out the window wordlessly hacks apart a defensless and detained member of the crew for a crime that wouldn't even warrent execution.

iamgoofball · Post by **iamgoofball** » Sun Jul 31, 2016 9:13 am #199975

i didnt even break space law, i was gulag'd as part of my demotion

all I did was give decrees of what I wanted done

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Sun Jul 31, 2016 9:37 am #199977

Davidchan wrote:Antags kill because someone attacked them with semilethal force

Security detains criminals for using potentially lethal force.

Security doesn't get the right to kill anyone who attacked them once. Whether arresting the clown was valid or not, mutilating and torturing him in public display for everyone to see is not acceptable.

Yes they do, sec has a right to self defence and attempted murder is a capital crime.

Throwing an (ied) spear at sec gives them all the valid salads they need

Though personally I'd just either give them a single laser bolt to the head or a straight decapitation, looks much more professional.
Making an example out of people in ss13 is fucking stupid given how short rounds are and how many different ways of getting back into the round there are.

If it doesn't work in life web it's not going to work here

The point of making examples out of people in real life is scare everyone else into thinking you are a ruthless bastard, that doesn't really work when everything resets an hour later

Post by **Archie700** » Sun Jul 31, 2016 9:59 am #199978

Malkevin wrote:
Davidchan wrote:Antags kill because someone attacked them with semilethal force

Security detains criminals for using potentially lethal force.

Security doesn't get the right to kill anyone who attacked them once. Whether arresting the clown was valid or not, mutilating and torturing him in public display for everyone to see is not acceptable.
Yes they do, sec has a right to self defence and attempted murder is a capital crime.

Throwing an (ied) spear at sec gives them all the valid salads they need

Though personally I'd just either give them a single laser bolt to the head or a straight decapitation, looks much more professional.
Making an example out of people in ss13 is fucking stupid given how short rounds are and how many different ways of getting back into the round there are.

If it doesn't work in life web it's not going to work here

The point of making examples out of people in real life is scare everyone else into thinking you are a ruthless bastard, that doesn't really work when everything resets an hour later

From what I got from eaglendia, she wasn't even trying to make an example, she was trying to defend herself from the clown.

Hell, she even let the clown be healed by a borg after she got him into crit. The amputation must have been a sideeffect of her using a rapier to take him down. The clown probably succumbed because he knew there was going to be no freedom.

Also, goofball tried to secede from nanotrasen and block latejoins from joining the station. And he had done that a few times. I think the heads and security revolted because people are fucking tired of the meme gimmick.

Davidchan · Post by **Davidchan** » Sun Jul 31, 2016 11:22 am #199980

Malkevin wrote:
Davidchan wrote:Antags kill because someone attacked them with semilethal force

Security detains criminals for using potentially lethal force.

Security doesn't get the right to kill anyone who attacked them once. Whether arresting the clown was valid or not, mutilating and torturing him in public display for everyone to see is not acceptable.
Yes they do, sec has a right to self defence and attempted murder is a capital crime.

Throwing an (ied) spear at sec gives them all the valid salads they need

Ignorning the fact that every instance of Eagle's shitcurity rampage was intigated by her wordlessly firing disabler bolts or lasers at people, the logic of a single attack is grounds for murder is fucking stupid. That's not proper escalation and needlessly heats up the situation, as made clear by others trying to storm the bridge.

By the logic of 'you attacked me, you're valid' I'm apparently free to murder the fuck out of any security officer who tases or batons me, becuase they put themselves in a position where they could hurt me further. See how fucking dumb this logic is? Single attacks in retaliation to being assaulted aren't attempted murder.

Archie700 wrote:From what I got from eaglendia, she wasn't even trying to make an example, she was trying to defend herself from the clown.

If you have time to full strip them and retrieve a fire axe, it stops being self defense and starts being premeditated murder.

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Sun Jul 31, 2016 12:09 pm #199997

"Oh, so they're okay to do that thing so that must mean I'm okay to do this thing with impunity"
Fuck off.

And its a complete false equivalency, seeing as you know - slapping the cuffs on someone is nothing like throwing a sharp fucking stick at them.

And the HoS has execution rights, they're state sanctioned to perform premeditated murders.
So again, fuck off.

Lumbermancer · Sun Jul 31, 2016 12:34 pm

Malkevin wrote:And the HoS has execution right

No. Only Captain does.

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Sun Jul 31, 2016 12:37 pm #200000

Lumbermancer wrote:
Malkevin wrote:And the HoS has execution right
No. Only Captain does.

That got changed a while back.

Lumbermancer · Sun Jul 31, 2016 12:37 pm

Not in the Space LAW.

Davidchan · Post by **Davidchan** » Sun Jul 31, 2016 12:41 pm #200002

You do realize that by making it policy that the HoS is free to kill anyone they want without explanation that the HoS themselves is going to get preemptively killed by anyone who disagrees with them so they don't get legally murdered

Security is given Space Law, SoP and standards for a damn reason. Stop trying to make it so Security is a liscence to kill then whine and cry when the crew rises up against shitcurity.

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Sun Jul 31, 2016 1:15 pm #200006

Uhhh... are you two forgetting I was the one that wrote the SoPs in Space Law and that I was the one that updated Space Law to match Security Policy as it was at the time.

Not my fault policy got changed and no one bothered updating Space Law.

And for the last time: guidelines - its written in big fucking bold text in the opening paragraph.

"You do realize that by making it policy that the HoS is free to kill anyone they want without explanation that the HoS themselves is going to get preemptively killed by anyone who disagrees with them so they don't get legally murdered"
False.
Sec is allowed to execute for capital crimes only and in situations under Use of Deadly Force

You're hardly going to get killed for stealing somebody's sweat roll, unless you decide to resist arrest by throwing spears at security.

Most people are able to play the game without getting themselves killed by security, if you keep running into situations where you get killed by security that's probably a problem with your play style.

Post by **Archie700** » Sun Jul 31, 2016 1:26 pm #200009

Davidchan wrote:You do realize that by making it policy that the HoS is free to kill anyone they want without explanation that the HoS themselves is going to get preemptively killed by anyone who disagrees with them so they don't get legally murdered

Security is given Space Law, SoP and standards for a damn reason. Stop trying to make it so Security is a liscence to kill then whine and cry when the crew rises up against shitcurity.

It's become very obvious that you didn't even read about what happened.

Stop thinking that Space Law is the end-all that security must follow. It's supposed to be a guideline for security to note.

In fact, from the wiki(https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Space_Law):

"The rules and regulations herein are not absolutes, instead they exist to serve mainly as guidelines for the law and order of the dynamic situations that exist for stations on the frontiers of space, as such some leeway is permitted."

How about an example:

I was a latejoin HoS one round. The Warden had already executed a few for breaking into the armoury and trying to steal weapons. She then captured another one, but I let him stay in brig for a while and freed him.

After some time, the NEXT time I met him, he stabbed me nearly to crit with a spear, even amputating my foot. Only the intervention of the roboticist saved me and I had to execute the asshat.

He wasn't even an antag.

You know how much a embed spear does? 18, not including throbbing. There's even bleeding and the damage is almost enough to slow you down 1 level. Leaving you vulnerable to more attacks.

And furthermore, the clown was the aggressor in this situation. The clown was seen breaking windows and the comms console, and when Braids rushed to disable him, he responded by immediately attacking her with a thrown spear.

In fact, I should just link the post and ask everyone to read it from her point of view. It even has screen shots showing that the clown was the one who started the harm: https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 99#p199341

Lumbermancer · Sun Jul 31, 2016 1:34 pm

Malkevin wrote:I was the one that wrote the SoPs in Space Law

Doesn't matter. It's not yours. It's the common heritage of all security. Of all the station.

Either way it still says only Captain can authorize execution. And it's as it should be. While HoS will largely authorize executions himself most of the time, there have to be checks and balances. A leverage you can use against him when he goes shit.

Spoiler:

Post by **Archie700** » Sun Jul 31, 2016 1:36 pm #200012

Lumbermancer wrote:
Malkevin wrote:I was the one that wrote the SoPs in Space Law
Doesn't matter. It's not yours. It's the common heritage of all security. Of all the station.

Either way it still says only Captain can authorize execution. And it's as it should be. While HoS will largely authorize executions himself most of the time, there have to be checks and balances. A leverage you can use against him when he goes shit.

Spoiler:
It's not guideline, it's the law. I don't care what is written.

In this case the former captain was gulagged for trying to secede from nanotransen and the HoS took over as the new captain, so space law was still being followed in that sense.

Lumbermancer · Sun Jul 31, 2016 1:41 pm

HoP is next in line for Captainship.

Post by **Archie700** » Sun Jul 31, 2016 1:50 pm #200016

Lumbermancer wrote:HoP is next in line for Captainship.

Apparently people accepted that the HoS was the new Captain, since there was no mutiny for 20 minutes.

InsaneHyena · Post by **InsaneHyena** » Sun Jul 31, 2016 2:58 pm #200023

Doesn't matter. It's not yours. It's the common heritage of all security. Of all the station.

It's not guideline, it's the law. I don't care what is written.

Pictured - absolute, ruthless autism. Space law is not a thing.

Lumbermancer · Sun Jul 31, 2016 3:54 pm

Say that to my face in Brig and not online and see what happens.

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Sun Jul 31, 2016 5:04 pm #200042

Lumbermancer wrote:
Malkevin wrote:I was the one that wrote the SoPs in Space Law
Doesn't matter. It's not yours. It's the common heritage of all security. Of all the station.

Either way it still says only Captain can authorize execution. And it's as it should be. While HoS will largely authorize executions himself most of the time, there have to be checks and balances. A leverage you can use against him when he goes shit.

Spoiler:
It's not guideline, it's the law. I don't care what is written.

Need I remind you that Space Law wouldn't even exist any more if I hadn't fought HG's deletion of it.

Maybe that was a mistake.

Lumbermancer wrote:Say that to my face in Brig and not online and see what happens.

Also, pretty sure we did this dance a few months back.

You ended up in perma crying because you were dumb enough to threaten me with revenge for getting demoted.

Oldman Robustin · Mon Aug 01, 2016 7:20 am

Archie700 wrote:"Why the fuck is the HoS killing everyone with little evidence?"

There.

Then you get silence or "They deserved it" if they're feeling talkative.

I'll reiterate my positions:

Security is ALLOWED to act like the Space Gestapo and hand out summary executions/torture/mutilation as punishments to antags and valids alike.

But in return for permitting them to push their authority to the highest tiers of shittery instead of just using regular sentencing/perma/private executions, the crew is permitted to have an IC-reaction to sec brutality and use violence against it.

Giving the same level of admin protection to "I mutilate all my valid prisoners in public to send a message" as "I respect due process and try to hand out fair punishments" Heads of Security is just silly.

Davidchan · Post by **Davidchan** » Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:31 am #200196

There is basically two routes here that are actually fair for the entire playerbase.

1) Security is infact allowed to kill or use lethal force on non-antags who resist arrest using lethal force or damage the officer in the scuffle. But under the rule of escalation, Security using equal force makes them equally valid to murder and neither party is protected by admin intervention once they move down that road.

2) Security is NOT allowed to use lethal force on non-antags or crew without evidence of antag behavior. Non-antags who do use lethal force against security will be punished accordingly by the admins.

TL;DR Security players need to decide if they'd rather be able to kill anyone they please, or be able to hide behind the admins and policy if they get robusted and killed by someone they shouldn't have been using lethal force against. Not both.

iamgoofball · Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:56 am

remove security

WarbossLincoln · Mon Aug 01, 2016 6:49 pm

This is what happens when you remove the ban requests board. People dump their salt in here. There are only like 5 relevant posts in the whole pile of shit. The rest are people moaning about a bad round they had as sec or against sec.

onleavedontatme · Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:16 pm

cmspano wrote:This is what happens when you remove the ban requests board. People dump their salt in here. There are only like 5 relevant posts in the whole pile of shit. The rest are people moaning about a bad round they had as sec or against sec.

Isn't it great? It's all the dumb drama of FNR but without me being obligated to take it seriously.

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:39 pm #200290

Kor wrote:
cmspano wrote:This is what happens when you remove the ban requests board. People dump their salt in here. There are only like 5 relevant posts in the whole pile of shit. The rest are people moaning about a bad round they had as sec or against sec.
Isn't it great? It's all the dumb drama of FNR but without me being obligated do my job.

kevinz000 · Post by **kevinz000** » Tue Aug 02, 2016 1:02 am #200309

Lmao this is why I love playing HoS.

TerbusReturns · Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:37 am

if you act antag as fuck people won't ahelp

remember this when being a piece of shit

J_Madison · Post by **J_Madison** » Tue Aug 02, 2016 1:31 pm #200389

stop letting your greytide/validhunt/powergame playstyle affect your admin decisions for a start.

And second it's perfectly reasonable (especially on Sybil) to kill someone for even pointing at gun at you. Hell I'd kill your ass if you even made eye contact for breaking windows like that.

Ask yourself the question; if you're not antag or actively involved in an escalating situation, why the hell are you getting involved?

Simple as; unless you're throwing a coup (which you shouldn't do FNR) why are you getting involved?

Don't make trouble for yourself or others.

Davidchan · Post by **Davidchan** » Tue Aug 02, 2016 1:35 pm #200390

Literally what the antag protected roll was doing J. Acting like an antag and deposing loyal crew.