Security and antag-hunting

[Falamazeer]

sec is not anti antag outside of rev or cult, please stop that meme.

Outside of rev or cult you're there to make the antags have a sense of paranoia as they attempt to achieve their objectives without getting caught, not to chase them all down and smash their heads in as you triumphantly masturbate over the redtexts they receive.

Sorry guys, I'm not gonna role-play as hollywood sugar glass, fit only to be dramatically burst through, as you leap through me, bursting me into millions of slow motion shards, while all your adoring fans oooh and ahhh at your robust skills.

I wanna play the game too godamnit! I will continue to hunt antags of all flavors, tiders as well, I'll proudly enjoy redtext when I receive it, and in all ways not hand out victory at my own expense.

this is the game we have in front of us, and I'm playing it the only way it makes sense from my side of the curtain. If you wanna bitch about validhunters ruining antag rounds, bitch at the tiders who run around with a hidden stunprod in their backpack waiting to see you slip up and reveal your emag in your hand so they can run you down and cave your fucking skull in, because if you're gonna vantaghunt, the least you can do is declare your intent with an obvious bright red uniform.

Even if I tried to grind off my jagged edges for your comfort and to fulfill this mythical idea of being a 'buffer' to inspire 'paranoia' among traitors, How am I supposed to do that when I'm also not supposed to treat them as what they are, The primary threat of the round. How is it a threat that inspires paranoia if I'm not a threat that inspires paranoia!
What would you have me do? play catch and release?

That paranoia vanishes once the fear that one false move may lead to a heart pounding fight that may end in terrible failure, and a big bloody pool at your feet. It cheapens the victory if I pat you on the knee and release you to go try again at your mission, and I don't want that for my traitor rounds or my security rounds, and if you really thought about it, you don't either.
Now, I'm a sporting guy, If I catch someone in a lag storm with an emag in their hand, or one in a million odds happen by chance, I'm not gonna go full rambo, but If I legitimately catch you with your hand in the cookie jar, I'ma do my best to take the hand.

If antag hunting is going to exist, and it always will, you should save your ire for the people who won't even put on the oft despised red suit and wade through the piss, spit, shit and vomit like the rest of us, because honestly, antag hunting as a random asshole is easier, you got the element of surprise, the greatest weapon on station, but with security, you know exactly what you are up against. and that if given the chance, they will end your traitorly rampage in it's tracks by either locking you in a small room and forgetting you, or bashing your evil brains out on the floor.

Is it any less a department culture for security to enjoy stomping nefarious plotters, than it is for cargo to abandon the union of centcom and defect to found the new nation of cargonia? Or the assistants to band together and break shit faster than it's built as part of the grey tide?

Why do we glorify an assistant who beats all the odds and kills his would be assasin, but when an officer does it, he's ruining an antags round, by being a valid hunting shitlord fun police?
I'm not saying redtext at any costs "bomb the shuttle yehaw" here guys, Or "only death can passify the gimmick peace-wizard who wants to join botany and grow dank weed."

But this anti-sec/anti-antaghunter meme merge needs to stop, if you're going to hunt antags, there should be a home for you on this station, and it should be in security.

~Red-shirt, Red-text, Red-pride.

[Atlanta-Ned]

Sorry guys, I'm not gonna role-play as hollywood sugar glass, fit only to be dramatically burst through, as you leap through me, bursting me into millions of slow motion shards, while all your adoring fans oooh and ahhh at your robust skills.

Maybe you should play somewhere else then?

[Falamazeer]

Sorry guys, I'm not gonna role-play as hollywood sugar glass, fit only to be dramatically burst through, as you leap through me, bursting me into millions of slow motion shards, while all your adoring fans oooh and ahhh at your robust skills.

Maybe you should play somewhere else then?

Why would you want those to be my only two options? 'Ride bitch, or stay home'
This attitude of get wrekt or be called shitcurity is why not a lot of people play the role.

[Sidon]

everythingwrongwithsecurity.thepost

[Falamazeer]

everythingwrongwithsecurity.thepost

Says a greytide apologist.
How about challenging any single point rather than meme at me?
You obviously think hunting antags is bad, I disagree, and I used a wall and a half of text to explain multiple facets of my opinion, Can't you muster up a complete sentence?

[Luke Cox]

Security's job is to stop criminals. Antags are capital criminals. It only makes sense that security go after Space ISIS before the vandals.

[TheColdTurtle]

Shouldn't sec just be a looming threat over antag'so heads? Constantly watching with an all powerful machine that sees everything at their disposal, and enough stuns and bodies to beat any antagonist. Plus if it is not revs or gangs you have a literal army of retards to throw at whatever faces the station. And for dealing with grey shirts you have the gulag for a reason. We even have a God damn Teleporter to the gulag. Speaking of that army of retards, security has complete control over them. With approval security can completely search a department for little reason. I don't know where I was going with this but whatever

[Sidon]

everythingwrongwithsecurity.thepost

Says a greytide apologist.
How about challenging any single point rather than meme at me?
You obviously think hunting antags is bad, I disagree, and I used a wall and a half of text to explain multiple facets of my opinion, Can't you muster up a complete sentence?

lol if you wanna hunt antags maybe you should do it right

[Falamazeer]

. I don't know where I was going with this but whatever

Neither do I. None of that has anything to do with what I was talking about, This has nothing to do with buffs or nerfs, nor anything to do with searches or security power. I feel like your cat walked over your keyboard halfway through your security hate-speech and you didn't bother to fix it, and no amount of facts, details or context would have prevented you from spewing your toxic thoughts about security in a thread with 'security' in the title.

I do that too, so fair's fair.

lol if you wanna hunt antags maybe you should do it right

At least that time it was a complete sentence, not sure what you're trying to say here, but your sarcasm aside, this comment nicely ties my points together, I am hunting antags right, I do it as security, not as some random dickback, and I feel like the memes and thoughts against this behavior are misguided.

[TheColdTurtle]

Mate I love playing security, just think that sec should not be the ultimate validhunters.

[Sidon]

Yes by the book, adorable!

Here's a quick antag hunt guide, everyone can add to it. Maybe we'll make a new meta out of this!

Step 1: Roll as a plain old security officer!

Step 2: You can't be an antag at all, instant trust and power to do as you will in the name of order!

Step 3: Alright now grab everything you can that will help neutralize antags. You're security so it's easier than your local greyshirt blackmarket!

Step 4: This is the cool part, put all your cool robust items inside your bag and boxes! Then run to the maps locker/clothes area!

Step 5: Lose the red! Become a greyshirt, so now you have the element of surprise. Make sure you do this as hidden as you can, and grab a wallet so no one can see your ID card as well!

Step 6: Hunt the antags and you win!

Fun!!

[Falamazeer]

Mate I love playing security, just think that sec should not be the ultimate validhunters.

Yeah me too, I never said ultimate, power wasn't in the topic until you brought it up, twice,

I'm just saying sec should be the antag-hunters, because that's the role in the game.
and making it not so collapses the fun on both sides of the fence, Nobody wants to play security if it's just to die in dramatic fashion to the antag, and antag isn't fun without risk. well, it could be, but then it's just griefing, go hack dayz or some shit if you want godmode, and it's not risk without consequence, I shouldn't get shit on for playing the game the only way it makes sense in that role.

people shouldn't let their intense desire to see security neutered make them think that the role isn't still and should continue to be antag-hunting, we're all here to have fun, and cock-blocking a murderboner is fun for me, I'd be sorry, but fuck those guys amiright?


Sidon, I've done that, or something similar, I had a second ID made that appeared as assistant, dressed in grey, popped a sec key in my normal mike and arrested people who otherwise would not have committed crimes in front of me in full uniform, It's called plain-clothes, and you didn't invent it, neither did I. Hell, to not blow my cover I've just radiod the crime in before. None of your rambling still has anything to do with the content being discussed.

[ShadowDimentio]

People who spout "security isn't supposed to hunt antags" are either delusional admins that don't play the game enough or people who want security/crew to hold nice and still while they shoot them, and cry if they get dunked.

[Owegno]

People who spout "security isn't supposed to hunt antags" are either delusional admins that don't play the game enough or people who want security/crew to hold nice and still while they shoot them, and cry if they get dunked.

How about an admin that plays fairly frequently, watches security a lot and used to play only security for a bit over a year?

Security is not supposed to hunt antags, their job is to provide a counter-point and aid in creating a multi-sided conflict which is what makes an interesting story. The primary focus of security should be the safety of the crew, nothing else. If you have a mass murderer running around killing people and are protecting a small group of unarmed people in cargo when one of them offers to emag open some crates of weapons for the group in exchange for an albative vest, help them instead of validing them dead and taking the emag for yourself. Whats more putting known traitors in perma instead of executing them like everyone seems to today can lead to a lot more fun situations since capturing someone twice is twice the fun. Also making deals with non-violent traitors that have been captured in exchange for their TC has pretty much never ended dully for me.

TL;DR, security protects people and makes the round more fun by being the protagonists cops of the story not "good guy with a gun" vigilantes that want to murder people with their toys.

[TechnoAlchemist]

People who spout "security isn't supposed to hunt antags" are either delusional admins that don't play the game enough or people who want security/crew to hold nice and still while they shoot them, and cry if they get dunked.

How about an admin that plays fairly frequently, watches security a lot and used to play only security for a bit over a year?

Security is not supposed to hunt antags, their job is to provide a counter-point and aid in creating a multi-sided conflict which is what makes an interesting story. The primary focus of security should be the safety of the crew, nothing else. If you have a mass murderer running around killing people and are protecting a small group of unarmed people in cargo when one of them offers to emag open some crates of weapons for the group in exchange for an albative vest, help them instead of validing them dead and taking the emag for yourself. Whats more putting known traitors in perma instead of executing them like everyone seems to today can lead to a lot more fun situations since capturing someone twice is twice the fun. Also making deals with non-violent traitors that have been captured in exchange for their TC has pretty much never ended dully for me.

TL;DR, security protects people and makes the round more fun by being the protagonists cops of the story not "good guy with a gun" vigilantes that want to murder people with their toys.

Most of what you said is right, except "capturing someone a second time" more often than not is me and more people getting killed when I could have prevented it in the first place. Which is fun for less people.

[Owegno]

I generally find that when people escape perma they just try to hide, I probably should of stated that its best to borg or quietly execute murderboners or people who you know just want to kill people.

[ShadowDimentio]

delusional admin

I can count the number of times a traitor has helped me as security on one hand. It was exactly once.

I'm all for a little bit of roleplay then and again, but if I catch someone with candy you're getting dunked on principle unless I'm feeling exceedingly generous or you walked up to me and handed all the candy over. Also guards that use traitor gear are the height of shameful.

Also escaping perma is lame and I very fondly remember dunking someone who planned to do it. They were madder than anyone I've ever seen.

[Luke Cox]

People who spout "security isn't supposed to hunt antags" are either delusional admins that don't play the game enough or people who want security/crew to hold nice and still while they shoot them, and cry if they get dunked.

How about an admin that plays fairly frequently, watches security a lot and used to play only security for a bit over a year?

Security is not supposed to hunt antags, their job is to provide a counter-point and aid in creating a multi-sided conflict which is what makes an interesting story. The primary focus of security should be the safety of the crew, nothing else.

Space terrorists, cultists, and gangsters all sound like big fucking threats to the crew's safety to me.

[Cik]

security's validhunting is a rational response to the willingness and ability of antags to fucking kill everyone with no admin-side repercussions

it's unfair to hobble security while giving the antags a blank check to senselessly murder.

validhunting in a lowkey traitor round is a little scummy, but your average round especially on sybil? if you don't, the station's going to be an airless hulk in 10 minutes without fail

[Isratosh]

It's totally within the rules, kill those filthy traitors

[oranges]

I'm talking bout you motherfuckers that be searching everyone at roundstart at the drop of the hat

The ones who go to quiet areas of the station at roundstart to try to catch some poor sap trying to use his uplink

the cube drone squares that are watching the health monitor for anyone losing blood at roundstart

The warden who spends his entire round just watching the AI upload like an American watches reality tv

The security officer who actively checks the standard antag hideout locations and checks for falsewalls.

This what I mean when I say antag hunting

Chasing some antag around who just esworded someone in front of your face? All good, not even antaghunting, that's just doing your job.
Working with the detective to build a case against some guy and then bringing him in to face justice? Great, fantastic, more of that.
Stumbling upon a antag doing their business in a department as you patrol? Awesome.

[Isratosh]

-good shit-

this is good

[Malkevin]

Maybe sec should all just fuck off to the ash lands and hunt monsters if the sheeple are so intent on getting slaughtered?

[InsaneHyena]

The security officer who actively checks the standard antag hideout locations and checks for falsewalls.

> implying it's not done by basically everybody, but mainly bored assistants

[Screemonster]

Sec explicitly should not be sugar-glass to heroically burst through

Sec should be the force that scares you into keeping a low profile knowing that anything that gives them your scent will have them hounding you for the rest of time.
Sec should be the reason why you go to a quiet corner before you check your uplink.
Sec should be the reason you wear a disguise before you do anything dodgy.
Sec should be the reason you ditch your evidence, and if you stole something, stash it somewhere secure until the shuttle's called because holy shit if something leads to them searching you and they find the blueprints on you you're a dead man.

HOWEVER.

All those things oranges said about what sec should not be are spot-on. The thing of someone welderbombing a dorm because they saw someone go into one at roundstart being a classic example. (okay, that wasn't a sec officer but a bog-standard validhunter but still)

[Malkevin]

All those things oranges said about what sec should not be are spot-on. The thing of someone welderbombing a dorm because they saw someone go into one at roundstart being a classic example. (okay, that wasn't a sec officer but a bog-standard validhunter but still)

Pax

[Scott]

Security is given too much leeway from the administration. Officers don't have antag status because nobody coded that in yet, but they might as well have it.

[Slignerd]

I mean, I'm not sure ash walkers have antag status codewise either, but there they are.

[Cik]

if you don't want to get the harmbaton don't be a criminal

[confused rock]

All those things oranges said about what sec should not be are spot-on. The thing of someone welderbombing a dorm because they saw someone go into one at roundstart being a classic example. (okay, that wasn't a sec officer but a bog-standard validhunter but still)

Pax

correct it was pax

[bandit]

Obligatory pointing out of the fact that the thing that made security the antag-hunting department was sec antag being removed

[TheNightingale]

Security is there to keep the peace, make sure the station's safe, and uphold the law. By nature, that conflicts with a lot of antagonists; if a traitor's going around shooting people, Security has to stop them, or die trying. The problems come when officers take "I found this guy with an emag, but he hasn't used it yet" as an excuse to laser them to death. Let the punishment fit the crime. You get two types of Sec players - the ones who want to make the round interesting, and the ones who want to engage their validbaton. Security has a responsibility to make the round interesting; as the natural foil to a lot of antags, they exist to create excitement, and allow the station to have their own fun. Without Security, antags walk over civilians; without antags, nothing ever happens.

If you find two traitors within five minutes of the round starting, good for you. You could execute them both... but would that be interesting? There's probably only one or two traitors left, and the responsibility falls on them to do the jobs of twice that amount. But if you let them go, won't they murderbone? Not always. Can't punish someone for a crime before they've done it.

[confused rock]

you are basically saying "if you arrest those traitors, then they won't be able to kill people" no fucking shit, mate.

[ShadowDimentio]

I'm talking bout you motherfuckers that be searching everyone at roundstart at the drop of the hat I use examine as I run past people. Few people make sure their candy is stored properly out of sight, so one examine and they get tazed.

The ones who go to quiet areas of the station at roundstart to try to catch some poor sap trying to use his uplink If you don't want to get caught with your dick out, don't be so goddamn predictable with where you go to whip it out. I remember once back when HoS had the sec door remote I wandered in dorms at roundstart and saw a bolted door. I opened it to find a doctor with a tome in his hand. I felt a little bad so I just took his book and threw him out, but I completely cucked their round because he went to the worst spot in the game.

the cube drone squares that are watching the health monitor for anyone losing blood at roundstart If someone actually puts the effort in catching the exact moment I whack a dude on the monitoring consoles I won't even be mad if I get caught. They earned it.

The warden who spends his entire round just watching the AI upload like an American watches reality tv See above.

The security officer who actively checks the standard antag hideout locations and checks for falsewalls. See two.

Chasing some antag around who just esworded someone in front of your face? All good, not even antaghunting, that's just doing your job.
Working with the detective to build a case against some guy and then bringing him in to face justice? Great, fantastic, more of that.
Stumbling upon a antag doing their business in a department as you patrol? Awesome. Unfortunately unless you're me and a legend you don't often catch traitors with their dick out outside of the early moments of the round, and I don't want to just sit around waiting for someone else to make a move.

[Screemonster]

it's a "shadowdimentio admits to breaking the 'non-antags may not pre-emptively search for antags' rule just like he did with silicon policy" episode

[TheColdTurtle]

Seems like shadow is what you see when you think of

"Awful player who gets off at redtext"

[ShadowDimentio]

Smells like tears

[captain sawrge]

oh it's this thread again

[NikNakFlak]

oh it's this thread again

complete with forum warriors autists

[TheColdTurtle]

When was the last time anything useful was discussed in policy discussion?

[ShadowDimentio]

Never

[Luke Cox]

I'm talking bout you motherfuckers that be searching everyone at roundstart at the drop of the hat

The ones who go to quiet areas of the station at roundstart to try to catch some poor sap trying to use his uplink

the cube drone squares that are watching the health monitor for anyone losing blood at roundstart

The warden who spends his entire round just watching the AI upload like an American watches reality tv

The security officer who actively checks the standard antag hideout locations and checks for falsewalls.

This what I mean when I say antag hunting

Chasing some antag around who just esworded someone in front of your face? All good, not even antaghunting, that's just doing your job.
Working with the detective to build a case against some guy and then bringing him in to face justice? Great, fantastic, more of that.
Stumbling upon a antag doing their business in a department as you patrol? Awesome.

I'm generally pro-sec and I do believe that it's their primary job to act as resistance to antags, but do people actually do that shit? I never go that far.

[Falamazeer]

I'm talking bout you motherfuckers that be searching everyone at roundstart at the drop of the hat

The ones who go to quiet areas of the station at roundstart to try to catch some poor sap trying to use his uplink

the cube drone squares that are watching the health monitor for anyone losing blood at roundstart

The warden who spends his entire round just watching the AI upload like an American watches reality tv

The security officer who actively checks the standard antag hideout locations and checks for falsewalls.

This what I mean when I say antag hunting

Chasing some antag around who just esworded someone in front of your face? All good, not even antaghunting, that's just doing your job.
Working with the detective to build a case against some guy and then bringing him in to face justice? Great, fantastic, more of that.
Stumbling upon a antag doing their business in a department as you patrol? Awesome.

I'm generally pro-sec and I do believe that it's their primary job to act as resistance to antags, but do people actually do that shit? I never go that far.

They don't, and if they did they'd be dunked by admins for most of it. It's basically like the captains who used to call the shuttle at round start to test for rev.

this isn't a list of antag hunting tropes, it's metagaming, I think oranges is confused... and high in vitamin C

[TechnoAlchemist]

Random searches are against the rules, if people say "random search" and search you you shoul probably ahelp it (even though having an excuse is extremely easy)

[Sidon]

Technoalcumo i'm gonna random search you! why do you have all this admin only gear?

[TechnoAlchemist]

giv sucky fucky to headmins for favors

[iamgoofball]

Random searches are against the rules, if people say "random search" and search you you shoul probably ahelp it (even though having an excuse is extremely easy)

You know how businesses never fire you for the actual reason, and just say shit like "wasn't a team player"?

[Lumbermancer]

Random searches are against the rules, if people say "random search" and search you you shoul probably ahelp it (even though having an excuse is extremely easy)

Figuring a probable cause for random search is the first thing they teach at security academy.

The simplest and most surefire yet legit is bloodied clothing. The simplest shitcurity is AI tip.

[IcePacks]

All those things oranges said about what sec should not be are spot-on. The thing of someone welderbombing a dorm because they saw someone go into one at roundstart being a classic example. (okay, that wasn't a sec officer but a bog-standard validhunter but still)

Pax

correct it was pax

correct

welderbombs are not a toy

[Not-Dorsidarf]

10/10, Icepax