Give nuke ops their CR-20s back?
- Not-Dorsidarf
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:14 pm
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Give nuke ops their CR-20s back?
So, with some recent buffs to nuke ops, including making the standard ammo a shotgun slug and the horror that is the biotoxins dart (instantly down and asleep, and almost certain to get a heart attack), I've realised that the Bulldog, the standard shotgun that nukers get has in fact become extremely powerful. You almost never see people take other weapons, with the exception of an occasional L6 saw for the near-bottomless ammo capacity (it even does less damage) and the assault rifle, for its grenade launcher.
In order to maybe remedy that, I'd like to propose returning the CR-20 as the standard, basic weapon, and letting them buy the bulldog, relatively cheaply (or not cheaply).
Please discuss!
In order to maybe remedy that, I'd like to propose returning the CR-20 as the standard, basic weapon, and letting them buy the bulldog, relatively cheaply (or not cheaply).
Please discuss!
kieth4 wrote: infrequently shitting yourself is fine imo
There is a lot of very bizarre nonsense being talked on this forum. I shall now remain silent and logoff until my points are vindicated.
Player who complainted over being killed for looting cap office wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am Hey there, I'm Virescent, the super evil person who made the stupid appeal and didn't think it through enough. Just came here to say: screech, retards. Screech and writhe like the worms you are. Your pathetic little cries will keep echoing around for a while before quietting down. There is one great outcome from this: I rised up the blood pressure of some of you shitheads and lowered your lifespan. I'm honestly tempted to do this more often just to see you screech and writhe more, but that wouldn't be cool of me. So come on haters, show me some more of your high blood pressure please.
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Re: Give nuke ops their CR-20s back?
CR-20 as standard equipment. Nuke op winrates are toilet-tier.
That, or make standard equipment vary with population. CR-20 if you have say, more than 40 people on-station. Lower than that, sketchkins.
That, or make standard equipment vary with population. CR-20 if you have say, more than 40 people on-station. Lower than that, sketchkins.
- Steelpoint
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Re: Give nuke ops their CR-20s back?
I honestly enjoyed it more when C20r SMG's were standard issue, now I have to spend 14 TC's to get one and that's assuming the team allows me to buy one.
- DemonFiren
- Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:15 pm
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Re: Give nuke ops their CR-20s back?
The C-20r is fucking iconic. It, along with the hardsuit, are the two items that spell "GET DAT FUKKEN DISK" like nothing else.
Oh, and gameplay balance reasons, too. Give 'em.
Oh, and gameplay balance reasons, too. Give 'em.
- Saegrimr
- Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:39 pm
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Re: Give nuke ops their CR-20s back?
SMG tacticool as fuck. The shotguns were cool but meh, seemed more of a specialization type thing.
tedward1337 wrote:Sae is like the racist grandad who everyone laughs at for being racist, but deep down we all know he's right.
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Re: Give nuke ops their CR-20s back?
Why not let each operative choose their standard weapon?
Also everybody starts with a stetchkin already.
Also everybody starts with a stetchkin already.
- Scones
- Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 2:46 am
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Re: Give nuke ops their CR-20s back?
Enables eshield mass purchases, and there are only 4 weapons on the station that can fight those outside of melee stun showdowns
Just a point, don't feel strongly either way.
Just a point, don't feel strongly either way.
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- invisty
- Joined: Tue May 26, 2015 12:02 am
- Byond Username: Invisty
Re: Give nuke ops their CR-20s back?
IMO give all op uplinks a second type of purchasing token that can be exchanged for one free projectile weapon (ebow/minibow/revolver/stechkin/c20r/bulldog).
Mime: Depresso
- Not-Dorsidarf
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:14 pm
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- Location: We're all going on an, admin holiday
Re: Give nuke ops their CR-20s back?
The reason that taking away nuke op kit and giving them more TCs doesnt work that great is that it makes it easier for fluke ops to waste all the TC on a mech and a borg and five emags.CosmicScientist wrote:Why not give them enough TCs to make an independent choice of which primary they want rather than giving them a primary they may not even use?
All I understand is that the bulldog got balanced to be as good as the other guns (that you need to buy) because friendly fire incidents (or just buckshot mechanics in general) were apparently terrible enough to warrant buffing with free and relatively decent ammunition.
I'd be in favour of putting all primaries onto the telecrystal shopping list (none in the lockers) and make the C-20r the best and simplest all rounder and very explicitly advertised for newer Nuke Ops to use if you want that iconic shine to stay OR even removing all but ONE bulldog in the lockers, reverting it to buckshot as I believe we can't have guns spawning without ammunition (with better mechanics? Did the spread and everything get fixed?) and leaving it as a IT'S FREE, PLEASE DO NOT GIVE THIS TWO/THREE SHOT AMMUNITION AND ACCEPT THAT YOU NEED TO LEARN HOW TO NOT SHOOT YOUR TEAMMATES MAYBE.
It's possible to make guns spawn without ammo I believe, by having the new() delete the magazine
kieth4 wrote: infrequently shitting yourself is fine imo
There is a lot of very bizarre nonsense being talked on this forum. I shall now remain silent and logoff until my points are vindicated.
Player who complainted over being killed for looting cap office wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am Hey there, I'm Virescent, the super evil person who made the stupid appeal and didn't think it through enough. Just came here to say: screech, retards. Screech and writhe like the worms you are. Your pathetic little cries will keep echoing around for a while before quietting down. There is one great outcome from this: I rised up the blood pressure of some of you shitheads and lowered your lifespan. I'm honestly tempted to do this more often just to see you screech and writhe more, but that wouldn't be cool of me. So come on haters, show me some more of your high blood pressure please.
- Scones
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Re: Give nuke ops their CR-20s back?
Ebow is restricted from operatives for a very good reason.
>five emags/borg/mech is bad
What planet are you living on?
>five emags/borg/mech is bad
What planet are you living on?
plplplplp WOOOOooo hahahhaha
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- TGMC Administrator
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Re: Give nuke ops their CR-20s back?
The different guns have varying levels of potency.
Over all I would say that currently it's:
C20<Bulldog<m90<SAW, with the sprayer somewhere in there also.
My suggest would be to have the ops spawn with only the stetchkin, but allow EACH uplink to spawn ONE primary weapon.
Each weapon would have their own (comparatively) low cost. hell, it would even be possible to have certain guns GIVE tc's, if they're not strong, but to preserve TC balance.
This system is better then simply giving the ops more tc's, since that just leads to shitty mech/borg spam which is extremely boring and uninteresting (if effective).
So as an example with nmbers out my ass, you could buy a c20 for 5tc, or a SAW for 25tc, or if you think guns are for scrubs, there could be a dual e-sword option for 0tc. Which ever option you choose, the others become greyed out, an your tc balance is updated to reflect your change.
Over all I would say that currently it's:
C20<Bulldog<m90<SAW, with the sprayer somewhere in there also.
My suggest would be to have the ops spawn with only the stetchkin, but allow EACH uplink to spawn ONE primary weapon.
Each weapon would have their own (comparatively) low cost. hell, it would even be possible to have certain guns GIVE tc's, if they're not strong, but to preserve TC balance.
This system is better then simply giving the ops more tc's, since that just leads to shitty mech/borg spam which is extremely boring and uninteresting (if effective).
So as an example with nmbers out my ass, you could buy a c20 for 5tc, or a SAW for 25tc, or if you think guns are for scrubs, there could be a dual e-sword option for 0tc. Which ever option you choose, the others become greyed out, an your tc balance is updated to reflect your change.
- CPTANT
- Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 1:31 pm
- Byond Username: CPTANT
Re: Give nuke ops their CR-20s back?
Which is?Scones wrote:Ebow is restricted from operatives for a very good reason.
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
- RG4
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Re: Give nuke ops their CR-20s back?
Formerly a weapon with:CPTANT wrote:Which is?Scones wrote:Ebow is restricted from operatives for a very good reason.
Infinite Ammo
Unlimited Range
Quiet and displays no hit message
unavoidable stun + tox damage.
Now give that to 5 Ops each with an energy shields, all they need to do is spam it down the halls.
- CPTANT
- Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 1:31 pm
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Re: Give nuke ops their CR-20s back?
RG4 wrote:Formerly a weapon with:CPTANT wrote:Which is?Scones wrote:Ebow is restricted from operatives for a very good reason.
Infinite Ammo
Unlimited Range
Quiet and displays no hit message
unavoidable stun + tox damage.
Now give that to 5 Ops each with an energy shields, all they need to do is spam it down the halls.
Costs 12 IC, DOESN'T KILL, weaker stun than a taser, has to recharge shots.
Its a pretty piss poor weapon compared to the 1 burst crit stuff that they can buy. You aren't seriously suggesting it is OP are you?
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
- RG4
- Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:19 am
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Re: Give nuke ops their CR-20s back?
YouCPTANT wrote:RG4 wrote:Formerly a weapon with:CPTANT wrote:Which is?Scones wrote:Ebow is restricted from operatives for a very good reason.
Infinite Ammo
Unlimited Range
Quiet and displays no hit message
unavoidable stun + tox damage.
Now give that to 5 Ops each with an energy shields, all they need to do is spam it down the halls.
Costs 12 IC, DOESN'T KILL, weaker stun than a taser, has to recharge shots.
Its a pretty piss poor weapon compared to the 1 burst crit stuff that they can buy. You aren't seriously suggesting it is OP are you?
Cost 12 TC
Can kill very easily
Unlimited range stun with toxin damage
Self recharges aka it has unlimited ammo.
It may not crit like a CR20,Bulldog,L6,M90 but it's one of the most robust traitor weapons due in part of those traits. IIRC it does 10 Tox damage per ebow shot and it holds 6 shots but constantly refills those shots. Give it to 5 Nuke Ops, any decent Ops team that isn't full of idiots and you can see the station fall with relative ease. You serverly underestimate the power of the old-ebow before Pap or whoever's shitty nerf of it, one person alone would ebow/sword combo the entire station if they were robust enough, the 10 tox damage is more than enough to kill people believe me I've done it before.
- Not-Dorsidarf
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Re: Give nuke ops their CR-20s back?
Didnt the old ebow have a 6-shot capacity, at which point you'd have to wait like 30 seconds for it to fully reload? How do you kill with that reliably?RG4 wrote:YouCPTANT wrote:RG4 wrote:Formerly a weapon with:CPTANT wrote:Which is?Scones wrote:Ebow is restricted from operatives for a very good reason.
Infinite Ammo
Unlimited Range
Quiet and displays no hit message
unavoidable stun + tox damage.
Now give that to 5 Ops each with an energy shields, all they need to do is spam it down the halls.
Costs 12 IC, DOESN'T KILL, weaker stun than a taser, has to recharge shots.
Its a pretty piss poor weapon compared to the 1 burst crit stuff that they can buy. You aren't seriously suggesting it is OP are you?
Cost 12 TC
Can kill very easily
Unlimited range stun with toxin damage
Self recharges aka it has unlimited ammo.
It may not crit like a CR20,Bulldog,L6,M90 but it's one of the most robust traitor weapons due in part of those traits. IIRC it does 10 Tox damage per ebow shot and it holds 6 shots but constantly refills those shots. Give it to 5 Nuke Ops, any decent Ops team that isn't full of idiots and you can see the station fall with relative ease. You serverly underestimate the power of the old-ebow before Pap or whoever's shitty nerf of it, one person alone would ebow/sword combo the entire station if they were robust enough, the 10 tox damage is more than enough to kill people believe me I've done it before.
kieth4 wrote: infrequently shitting yourself is fine imo
There is a lot of very bizarre nonsense being talked on this forum. I shall now remain silent and logoff until my points are vindicated.
Player who complainted over being killed for looting cap office wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am Hey there, I'm Virescent, the super evil person who made the stupid appeal and didn't think it through enough. Just came here to say: screech, retards. Screech and writhe like the worms you are. Your pathetic little cries will keep echoing around for a while before quietting down. There is one great outcome from this: I rised up the blood pressure of some of you shitheads and lowered your lifespan. I'm honestly tempted to do this more often just to see you screech and writhe more, but that wouldn't be cool of me. So come on haters, show me some more of your high blood pressure please.
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Re: Give nuke ops their CR-20s back?
It stuns as long as a taser does.
- Scones
- Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 2:46 am
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Re: Give nuke ops their CR-20s back?
15 tox, pretty easy to kill with, stun, silent, pocketable
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- RG4
- Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:19 am
- Byond Username: RG4ORDR
Re: Give nuke ops their CR-20s back?
6 shots and it had like a recharge time of 2-5 seconds so basically you can run and gun with it very easily. Also 10 tox per bolt.Not-Dorsidarf wrote: Didnt the old ebow have a 6-shot capacity, at which point you'd have to wait like 30 seconds for it to fully reload? How do you kill with that reliably?
- leibniz
- Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 6:21 pm
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- Location: Seeking help
Re: Give nuke ops their CR-20s back?
I had an idea a few years ago:
Nuke ops should spawn with a "Gun Selector".
When they use the item, a menu pops up, allowing them to spawn one from some listed guns for free. (the list in the poll is good enough, gold deagle is missing though)
And maybe 2 compatible magazines with it.
This way people can just choose what they like.
Nuke ops should spawn with a "Gun Selector".
When they use the item, a menu pops up, allowing them to spawn one from some listed guns for free. (the list in the poll is good enough, gold deagle is missing though)
And maybe 2 compatible magazines with it.
This way people can just choose what they like.
Founder and only member of the "Whitelist Nukeops" movement
- Not-Dorsidarf
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Re: Give nuke ops their CR-20s back?
As it is, the Deagle is just a Bulldog which cant load stuns.
kieth4 wrote: infrequently shitting yourself is fine imo
There is a lot of very bizarre nonsense being talked on this forum. I shall now remain silent and logoff until my points are vindicated.
Player who complainted over being killed for looting cap office wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am Hey there, I'm Virescent, the super evil person who made the stupid appeal and didn't think it through enough. Just came here to say: screech, retards. Screech and writhe like the worms you are. Your pathetic little cries will keep echoing around for a while before quietting down. There is one great outcome from this: I rised up the blood pressure of some of you shitheads and lowered your lifespan. I'm honestly tempted to do this more often just to see you screech and writhe more, but that wouldn't be cool of me. So come on haters, show me some more of your high blood pressure please.
- DemonFiren
- Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:15 pm
- Byond Username: DemonFiren
Re: Give nuke ops their CR-20s back?
Nuke ops should have the choice of a silver or tacticool deagle. Gold deagle is way too pretty.
- SkipsPro
- Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:21 am
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Re: Give nuke ops their CR-20s back?
should just give the team leader a choice of team weapon loadouts.
maybe option 1: 5x cr20s
option 2: 3 cr20's 2 bulldogs
option 3: 1 SAW 4 stetchkins
I dunno maybe something like that. obv the weapon choices arent completely balanced but yeah
maybe option 1: 5x cr20s
option 2: 3 cr20's 2 bulldogs
option 3: 1 SAW 4 stetchkins
I dunno maybe something like that. obv the weapon choices arent completely balanced but yeah
fuck
- Steelpoint
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Re: Give nuke ops their CR-20s back?
There are a few ways forward I can envision.
1:) Give Nuke Ops a sort of weapon locker and each operative a weapon voucher that lets them select a single gun for free (barring the L60).
2:) Keep Bulldogs as standard issue but tone down the power of the extra ammo
3:) Make C20r's standard issue and remove the Bulldog's from the ship.
What do you think we should do?
E: The biggest problem with the weapon voucher system is that it means we're giving nuke ops a extra 16 or so telecrystals for free, even if you do argue the Bulldog's more powerful and is already free.
1:) Give Nuke Ops a sort of weapon locker and each operative a weapon voucher that lets them select a single gun for free (barring the L60).
2:) Keep Bulldogs as standard issue but tone down the power of the extra ammo
3:) Make C20r's standard issue and remove the Bulldog's from the ship.
What do you think we should do?
E: The biggest problem with the weapon voucher system is that it means we're giving nuke ops a extra 16 or so telecrystals for free, even if you do argue the Bulldog's more powerful and is already free.
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Re: Give nuke ops their CR-20s back?
Give them more TC, let THEM choose their weapons. And if they want to spend in on a mech/borgs/useless joke items, it is on them. So they just get the worthless pistols as a hint to say "buy a better gun."
- Steelpoint
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Re: Give nuke ops their CR-20s back?
My only concern is making low pop ops even more powerful than they already are. From the stats page low pop ops have a 80% win rate while high pop ops have a 20% win rate.
I do think awarding a little more TC's and removing the Bulldogs may be the better solution, but I'm wary of making low pop win rates increase further.
I do think awarding a little more TC's and removing the Bulldogs may be the better solution, but I'm wary of making low pop win rates increase further.
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- imblyings
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Re: Give nuke ops their CR-20s back?
how about a voucher system like the one mining uses ? that's the closest code equivalent I can think of that lets players have a round start choice in gear.
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- TechnoAlchemist
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Re: Give nuke ops their CR-20s back?
Paprika was working on something like this at one point, sadly they will never code again.imblyings wrote:how about a voucher system like the one mining uses ? that's the closest code equivalent I can think of that lets players have a round start choice in gear.
- Falamazeer
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Re: Give nuke ops their CR-20s back?
This seems like the best overall decision for this, I'd love to see such a thing, I was mulling over something like the detectives revolver, but that just wasn't clicking in my head right, Something like an icon that said 'Gun' that you'd click and then pick from a list, but your idea isn't retarded but still lets people pick their loadout at round start. good thinking brahimblyings wrote:how about a voucher system like the one mining uses ? that's the closest code equivalent I can think of that lets players have a round start choice in gear.
bleh. I want to disagree on principle, but honestly this isn't the only change I heard he left unfinished that would have been pretty sweet, disabler being the other. Is it just untouchable because it was his or what? why can't a good coder finish these and see if they work?TechnoAlchemist wrote:sadly
Ham Sammich, beating a dead horse since 2010.
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- Steelpoint
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Re: Give nuke ops their CR-20s back?
Oh don't worry I can just copy Paprika's code he did write up for the voucher system if we want.
The only problem is, and was my argument back then, is that this system is giving operatives a whole bunch of TC's for free to spend on a wide range of misc gear.
Not a bad thing since it may help in high pop games but it will only exacerbate low pop game win rates.
The only problem is, and was my argument back then, is that this system is giving operatives a whole bunch of TC's for free to spend on a wide range of misc gear.
Not a bad thing since it may help in high pop games but it will only exacerbate low pop game win rates.
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Re: Give nuke ops their CR-20s back?
All guns are not equal - a straight up voucher system will not be balanced at all.
As I've said before, remove default bulldogs, and allow EACH uplink to spawn ONE primary weapon at a discounted price.
Also with nuke ops scaling poorly with pop, why has no one added scaling nuke op numbers yet?
5 ops when there's one sec officer is just as shit as 5 ops vs 70 crew and a full sec team.
More people is far more reliable then more/better gear (except mechs, but fuck them), since one person can still get dunked due to a lucky hit/one fuckup, regardless of what they have (unless they've got the whole nodrop/e-shield rape combo which I think is getting removed).
As I've said before, remove default bulldogs, and allow EACH uplink to spawn ONE primary weapon at a discounted price.
Also with nuke ops scaling poorly with pop, why has no one added scaling nuke op numbers yet?
5 ops when there's one sec officer is just as shit as 5 ops vs 70 crew and a full sec team.
More people is far more reliable then more/better gear (except mechs, but fuck them), since one person can still get dunked due to a lucky hit/one fuckup, regardless of what they have (unless they've got the whole nodrop/e-shield rape combo which I think is getting removed).
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