RND: Old Earth Technology Research

[Steelpoint]

One weird idea I had was the idea of allowing RnD to disseminate and create equipment based on advance Old Earth technology.

The main idea I had here was allowing RnD to deconstruct Old Earth tech, mainly the HoS's Personal Firearm or the Captain's Antique Laser, to push in a level in Old Earth Tech. This, combined with other high level research (higher than Adv Egun) could allow RnD to produce copies of the HoS's Firearm, Captain's Laser or even push to create a fully functional Old Earth QSJ-01 Laser, complete with multiple fire modes (Laser, Stun, Disable) and the ability to recharge.

Only problem here is that in doing so this could effectively remove a antag theft object from the game, so perhaps we can make it that these end game weapons also count for antag stealing objectives.

The actual weapon would be very expensive, your essentially trying to produce the equivalent of a Wh40k baneblade with out of date technology in comparison (Baneblade lore wise was a Old Earth MEDIUM tank). So the gun would be very expensive to produce in materials and would require very high research levels to produce. But the end result is a powerful energy firearm.

Your thoughts?

[Not-Dorsidarf]

The behnblehd was a scout tank in old epic fluff.

[Steelpoint]

Guess it depends on how far you go.

I do recall that one of the most, if not the, powerful Titans in the galaxy was a humble Support Titan back in the Dark Age of Humanity.

[Jacquerel]

The research system where you can't produce goods already available on the station is stupid as is, let's not add to the mix the idea that guns were better in the past and we've forgotten to make those too

[Steelpoint]

The research system where you can't produce goods already available on the station is stupid as is, let's not add to the mix the idea that guns were better in the past and we've forgotten to make those too

That's kinda the lore we've had for a long time.

[lumipharon]

Once you've maxed out research, using the cap or hos laser is a downgrade in 95% of situations.

[Jacquerel]

The research system where you can't produce goods already available on the station is stupid as is, let's not add to the mix the idea that guns were better in the past and we've forgotten to make those too

That's kinda the lore we've had for a long time.

Nnnot really? It's certainly not written down anywhere.

[Steelpoint]

https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Backstory

That's been around since as far back as I remember.

[Jacquerel]

Fair enough then, but I still think it's very silly.

[Gun Hog]

or even push to create a fully functional Old Earth QSJ-01 Laser, complete with multiple fire modes (Laser, Stun, Disable) and the ability to recharge.

You just described the AE Gun. It is exactly that gun. Instead, the HoS gun or Cap laser (not both) should simply have a combat tech of 5 to sacrifice to Science for unlocking those sweet, sweet Xray guns.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

or even push to create a fully functional Old Earth QSJ-01 Laser, complete with multiple fire modes (Laser, Stun, Disable) and the ability to recharge.

You just described the AE Gun. It is exactly that gun. Instead, the HoS gun or Cap laser (not both) should simply have a combat tech of 5 to sacrifice to Science for unlocking those sweet, sweet Xray guns.

Unique steal objectives should not be deconstructable.

[Steelpoint]

Its more so I want to suggest this as a ultimate end game weapon that's better than the Advance Energy Gun since its effectilvy a fully functional, and proper, Energy Gun. Not the facsimiles Nanotrasen's produces nor the broken down relic in the Captain's Office.

[Miauw]

"lets make rnd better by letting them make MORE GUNS"

[Helios]

If this is done, the God Emperor's disc on abandoned station should give points

[Steelpoint]

You should stop changing your comments Miauw, harder to keep track.

This is aimed as very end game content, ultimately it would just be a slightly buffed Advance Energy Gun but more reliable and a bit more powerful, also better looking.

Ultimantly its just a suggestion.

[Miauw]

yeah i made the heresy comment and then realized that it probably wasnt really heresy after all so hey vOv

i don't think adding a whole new tech three containing three things, all of which are guns, is a very good idea, really.

[Ricotez]

I like the concept, but I don't really see the point in-game unless you add a fuckton of Earthborn tech that can somehow be uncovered and that is somehow different from the other tech. not just better, but actually different and worthy to pursue.

I think that Earthborn tech would fit better at the ends of the existing tech trees. maybe research the machinery necessary to (re)discover it, and then use those to unlock Earthborn techs? like using the machine to reverse engineer the Captain's laser gun (not necessarily destructive) would yield self-charging energy guns or something. maybe make them of poorer performance than the actual Captain's laser gun because it is still a post-void wars corporation trying to replicate Earthborn brilliance. but again not really worth it unless you add a lot more stuff that can be reverse-engineered this way.

Spoiler:

I love the term "Earthborn brilliance", best term from Hate Plus

[Gun Hog]

I would think any new tech tree should be for armor, as Science has no ability to make worn armor or modifications of existing ones.

[invisty]

No thanks. We already have enough OP weapons floating around as it is.

Also yeah, the traitor objectives.

[MisterPerson]

I don't like the fluff of "the old tech was better". I think that shit should be removed, not pushed.

[PKPenguin321]

Only problem here is that in doing so this could effectively remove a antag theft object from the game, so perhaps we can make it that these end game weapons also count for antag stealing objectives.

that is most certainly not the only problem with this
science is already basically the strongest department if you have someone who knows what they're doing running it
now you're giving them literal captain/HoS laser combo guns

[Zilenan91]

or even push to create a fully functional Old Earth QSJ-01 Laser, complete with multiple fire modes (Laser, Stun, Disable) and the ability to recharge.

You just described the AE Gun. It is exactly that gun. Instead, the HoS gun or Cap laser (not both) should simply have a combat tech of 5 to sacrifice to Science for unlocking those sweet, sweet Xray guns.

"Hey cap, can we borrow your laser? It might be Blob."

But yeah no fuck this. Science powercreep is real.

[Fragnostic]

But yeah no fuck this. Science powercreep is real.

Blob got buffed against bombs, like severely buffed. A 5/10/20 bomb from 4-5 tiles away doesn't even reach the blob core. I bet from 3 tiles away it won't even kill it.

Granted, I did get cucked by the sorium blob and got thrown back 7 tiles away from the blob core when the bomb exploded, but I'm still incarnate.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

But yeah no fuck this. Science powercreep is real.

Blob got buffed against bombs, like severely buffed. A 5/10/20 bomb from 4-5 tiles away doesn't even reach the blob core. I bet from 3 tiles away it won't even kill it.

Granted, I did get cucked by the sorium blob and got thrown back 7 tiles away from the blob core when the bomb exploded, but I'm still incarnate.

Science still has the You Win button though man. And also that bomb will superturbohitler murder any other antag.

[Ricotez]

I don't like the fluff of "the old tech was better". I think that shit should be removed, not pushed.

this is another issue I have with this idea, sure a lot of tech was lost right AFTER the void wars, but it's been a while since then and both Nanotrasen and the Syndicate are developing very advanced technology. Anything related to plasma (blue-space crystals, chemicals that need a plasma catalyst, slime tech, xenos) would probably have not existed before the void wars as I'm pretty sure that Centration went undiscovered until Nanotrasen found the system

and here you have me digging deeper and deeper into the lore of a game that approaches its backstory like the wall in a public toilet

[Not-Dorsidarf]

What the fuck is a void war and when was it added to the fluff.

As far as I can recall, the only fluff that used to exist is "NANOTRASEN BIG GALACTIC MEGACOMPANY IN SPACE, SYNDICATE ARE BABBY COMPANIES SALTY AT HOW PRO NT IS, YOU ARE ON BAITED DEATHTRAP FOR SYNDICATES"

[Ricotez]

According to the backstory, the Void Wars and the resulting Great Schism are why some ancient technology is lost, why there are hardly any alien species left and why megacorporations rule the part of space that Nanotrasen is based in (and have little interest in Earth). It's surprisingly solid as far as fluff goes.

But it also still says that the solar system that SS13 is located in doesn't have a sun, which is an ancient joke from back when Errorage removed sun simulation. I prefer the old version where the star is a blue (purple?) super giant with unusual properties called Centration.

[DaemonBomb]

Science already has powerful as fuck shit, dawg, and it's kinda underwhelming for such ancient and powerful tech to come just from the magic blackbox techpooper being fed the right kind of power cells and robot bits. Maybe if we could somehow include other jobs/departments into it, and make it more than a way to get a gun that deals 9999 brute damagel... Make it come from some kind of dangerous chronowarper that causes the past (or future, or other dimensions) to bleed into the present in a contained space where scientists can potentially get neat new stuff to study or give to other apartments.

Something that needs a specialized space built by engineering, and pieces ordered from cargo, and some sec officers for when it messes up and spawns a Thunderwarrior and maybe uses telescience style mathematics. To make it would force the heads (And their departments) to work together and could potentially be a source of lots of weird shit, like fun new toys for the various departments, and weird (Not just stronger) weapons for security, and goofball joke items that are too goonish to be obtainable through normal means, and dangerous monsters for feeding the Captain Clown to! It'd be a new thing for traitors to sabotage, or get neato stuff from. It would add a fun new project for the station to do when traitors are being quiet.

If we're gonna implement some way to get mysterious ancient artifacts, we oughta milk that for more than just "THIS THING DOES MORE DAMAGE THAN OTHER THING!". Let's make it fun. if we just make it more strong stuff for Science to get, it doesn't REALLY add anything to the gameplay or solve any problems or make things funner.