Some antags need a larger delay.

[paprika]

Antags being chosen 3 seconds after spawn is a bad issue.

Traitors: Can easily rush their objectives causing the start of the round to be completely unfriendly and by extension causes sec/AI to meta and religiously watch the teleporter/etc.
Revs: Roundstart tool storage mass-flash rushing is extremely stupidly effective and gives sec next to no time to deal with it. Rev converting should be stealthier and should start in the heads' departments and grow from there, not be a 'flash everyone in hallways because sec won't notice since they're getting geared up and the AI can't lock me down for flashing people'.
Double Agents: SPRINT TO TARGET'S DEPARTMENT, UNZIP MINIBOMB/EBOW

Lings and cult are a lot stealthier at roundstart it's less of an issue for them. A general delay option for all gamemodes would be nice because it'd allow server hosts to configure how long into the round a gamemode waits before choosing antags. Obviously some game modes like nuke ops and wizard need to be chosen before spawning, and those game types delay themselves since the wizard/nuke ops have to set up in their respective dens anyway, but on-station antags need a larger delay, at least until the blue alert thing, to get chosen from the list of people alive on station.

This is sort of an extension of my 'rev needs a delay' topic because it could be applied to other gamemodes that ruin the start of the rounds with play to win objective rushing.

The only real problem I have with this idea in itself is it means the 'sec officers don't get to be sec officers if they get chosen for antag and are stuck in another role' idea would kind of be broken by this since some of the antags are chosen after spawn. If the antags were chosen before spawn and notifying them of being an antag happened later, they would likely do stupid shit like suicide or worse and that would compromise antag choosing a lot of the time.

[Bluespace]

>traitor round
>engineering accidentally releases singularity
>shuttle called before antags even chosen

Still, i'd like this.

[Steelpoint]

I like it.

I think a situation where a antag is chosen at round start but making them a antag is delayed for a certain amount of time is the best option. If people suicide that quickly into the round that's their problem. If we also go with anyone with Sec enabled getting antag then we simply disallow them from going into a protected role at round start.

[RG4]

Delay on Rev rounds would DEFINITELY make the mode better. As someone whose played RD during Rev rounds it's a near instant someone will run into RD,robotics,telescience,xeno,etc and stun prod and cuff you before you could really do anything. Though I don't understand how a flash converts people into being a rev, maybe like splitting up the ability to convert during Rev rounds could actually make it more bearable rather than flash and smash. IE the three 3 rev heads have implanters to convert people, flash won't convert someone as easily if they have an actual jobs, maybe service staff and assistants are one flashable while anyone else would require multiple flashes before converting, while having the head rev's starting flasher only good for 2-3 flashes before it breaks. Better yet no round start flashes at all and people have to get creative about getting them.

[Lo6a4evskiy]

Rev just needs a rework in general. Otherwise it would be a fine feature I think.

The delay could affect the objectives and uplink codes. So it'd be like blob - "You are traitor, wait for your objectives and uplink code".

[Reimoo]

You do need a randomization on the time chosen though, because, say if the antags are always chosen at the 10 minute mark people will be expecting that and meta the shit out of it.

[paprika]

I think the round this will benefit the most is rev, so rev as a gamemode needs to have some kind of delay in choosing people I guess.

[mrpain]

I love this idea. In addition to what was just outlined, it also might help cut down on those fuckwits who take a job slot, don't get their antag status, and kill themselves 2 minutes into the round and waste the slot.

Maybe.

[Rose-chan]

I love this idea. In addition to what was just outlined, it also might help cut down on those fuckwits who take a job slot, don't get their antag status, and kill themselves 2 minutes into the round and waste the slot.

Is that why people are always killing themselves/going braindead at the start of the round? Is being an antag really that important when you can be the hero the station deserves that one shit who builds their own hidey-hole in maintenance and scares the crap out of the borgs/detective/that one ling who doesn't know where the eye witness ran off to.

[cedarbridge]

I love this idea. In addition to what was just outlined, it also might help cut down on those fuckwits who take a job slot, don't get their antag status, and kill themselves 2 minutes into the round and waste the slot.

Is that why people are always killing themselves/going braindead at the start of the round? Is being an antag really that important when you can be the hero the station deserves that one shit who builds their own hidey-hole in maintenance and scares the crap out of the borgs/detective/that one ling who doesn't know where the eye witness ran off to.

Some people just can't spessmans without the ability to remove people from the round.

[MisterPerson]

This is another excellent idea that's hard to do currently because of the relative mess that is gamemode code.

[Incomptinence]

I don't think it is such a great idea. Basically traitors looting at round start isn't much of a problem in my eyes, oh no my inanimate object and red text how round ruining! If you want to catch them spend less time playing dress up or follow the evidence they might leave behind in their haste.

[Alex Crimson]

I like it just because it helps stop people rolling for antag then going braindead at roundstart.

[cedarbridge]

I don't think it is such a great idea. Basically traitors looting at round start isn't much of a problem in my eyes, oh no my inanimate object and red text how round ruining! If you want to catch them spend less time playing dress up or follow the evidence they might leave behind in their haste.

Nothing in this post is an argument against the change.

[Incomptinence]

I like it just because it helps stop people rolling for antag then going braindead at roundstart.

You say that like people who keep playing a game they quit 80% of the time in about a minute are intelligent.

Nothing in this post is an argument against the change.

Why would they be religiously watching the teleporter room? To prevent murders? No to watch for someone looting the hand teleporter, the change is also meant to be a strike against theft objectives the accomplishment of which I find less offensive.

[cedarbridge]

I like it just because it helps stop people rolling for antag then going braindead at roundstart.

You say that like people who keep playing a game they quit 80% of the time in about a minute are intelligent.

Nothing in this post is an argument against the change.

Why would they be religiously watching the teleporter room? To prevent murders? No to watch for someone looting the hand teleporter, the change is also meant to be a strike against theft objectives the accomplishment of which I find less offensive.

First, answering the quote not intended for me. No rational system can be designed by assuming that the people in that system are irrational.

Secondly, how "offensive" you find high-risk item theft is really irrelevant to the motivations for the change. Roundstart turbo-flashing in Revs is a clear culprit of rounds that are crippled or decided simply by instant-spawn antags being a thing. There are other examples for many of the other roundtypes. Simplifying the idea to "people stealing things doesn't bother me", is still unresponsive.

[Incomptinence]

I personally see rev as a round beautiful in its simplicity. Use your flash or implant people have a huge brawl done. The round goes bad because of hiding losers or other stalemates due to the shuttle being impossible to call for all time, taking issue with starting quickly is dealing with the opposite of the actual problems rev rounds have.

Disagreeing with even partially the need for a proposal isn't unresponsive, it is a way to argue against it. Not having a good reason to do something is one reason to not do it. Perhaps we should continue talking in private messages if we really need to go over the semantics of what it is to respond to an idea.

Also late antags would go against something else I want, sec officers being relegated to other jobs if they happen to roll antagonist so we don't end up with more ossified grumps who never play antags advocating nerfing them at the drop of a hat due to protect from antag excluding them.