Subtle Mind-Influencing Chemical Weapon

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Dagdammit
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Subtle Mind-Influencing Chemical Weapon

Post by Dagdammit » #213792

This was brainstormed for a thread on revamping BZ gas, but I'd like to discuss the concept's merits+feasiblity on its own. Let's call our chemical agent Pax, because it has similar "good" intentions as the drug in the Firefly movie. Nanotrasen claims it is an "experimental riot control agent" which is "intended for emergency use only". The heads of staff might try to subtly use it to make the crew more manageable, the crew might have very strong objections if they see evidence the crazy "traceless mind control gas" rumors are true, and an antag could set up either outcome themselves (dosed & unsuspecting crew or riots because crew believes Command is dosing them) in order to take advantage of it.

Shitty attempt at short version: Antags and captain+sec can both use it. It starts as hard-to-detect gas, breathing it or taking contaminated meds/food/drink doses you with reagent, cumulative effects slowly make you less effective at combat & lets security micro-stun you by yelling at you to stop. If crew catches on and communicates it's fairly easy to counter, if not it gives those in the know a significant edge.

How is Pax deployed?
Pax starts as a gas that can be released into the air and will slowly self-purge. There's two canisters of it in the sec office by Atmos, possibly one canister in Armory or even Science, and traitor uplinks lets you cheaply buy tanks of Pax that look like regular emergency oxygen tanks.

Analyzers will detect Pax in the air (possibly as "unrecognized particulates" instead of "Pax"), but air alarms won't trigger alerts or attempt to filter it unless you've changed their settings. At low concentrations, the gas is otherwise undetectable- players get zero direct notification when they're breathing it. Anyone without clean internals or a gas mask will have the Pax reagent gradually build up in their system over time (it metabolizes very slowly.)

However, an alternate tactic is to release Pax in high concentrations. The downside is that the gas becomes visible as white flecks, same as how there are visual effects for high levels of gases like plasma- the larger the area affected, the longer it takes to disperse & the greater chance someone will see it happening. But the upside is a strong one: Pax contamination in any tiles with visible particles. This creates new hidden vectors for getting the reagent form of pax into people's bodies- food, drinks, patches and pills that have been contaminated, either from direct exposure or thanks to pax-contaminated objects like tables, gloves, sinks, etc.

Implementation details:
Spoiler:
-Anything in a box or closed locker/crate is unaffected.
-Contamination could occur rarely to avoid performance hit, even checking once every 5 seconds would be plenty. Worst case, you could contaminate only when particles cease to be visible & say that's the point when they settle.
-Exposed reagent containers that hold no Pax replace 10% of their current contents with Pax reagent, rounding up.
-Exposed consumables (meaning food, pills and patches) that were clean are dosed with small amounts of the Pax reagent. (10% of existing non-pax reagents, rounding up)
-Exposed gloves (worn or otherwise) gain the "pax taint" state, as do a person's bare hands. Clean consumables become dosed with pax reagent anytime you eat them using tainted gloves/hands (or feed/apply them to someone else). Unlike other types of contamination, washing tainted hands/gloves will remove this state, but only if the shower/sink is clean. Y'seee
-Exposed sinks and showers gain a "tainted" state. They give the "pax taint" state to any clean hands or gloves they wash, dose any clean consumables you (maliciously) wash, and their reagent output is now 10% pax instead of water.
-Exposed tables and floors gain a "tainted" state and will add Pax reagent to any clean food+patches+pills that come into direct contact with them. (Using plates protects against this)
-Exposed hydroponics trays gain a "tainted" state and will dose their output with pax reagent upon each harvest.
What does Pax do?
The gist of the concept is that Pax makes you more compliant and suggestible, especially in response to auditory stimuli. The symptoms are generally subtle and accumulate based on how much of the pax reagent is in your system.

LOW DOSAGE (breathed air with low amounts of pax gas for half a minute, used a pax-contaminated brute patch):
-Slight increase in duration of slips and stuns, starts at 10% but increases with higher dosage.
-Small chance (starts at 10%) to freeze up (stop moving and take no actions for half a second) if you hear a statement containing words like "stop," "freeze," "hold", "halt", or your character's (real) first/last name. 5-second cooldown before you can be made to freeze up again. (may not work over comms?)
--Chance can be boosted by 20% if statement is loud (i.e. through a megaphone), or is said with exclamation points.
--Chance is boosted by 40% for ALL compli-o-nator messages and beepsky alerts. NanoTrasen's been fine-tuning their speakers for maximum effect.

MEDIUM DOSAGE (inhaling low pax amounts for 5 minutes straight, ate a giant pax-contaminated burger)
-Base chance to "freeze up" increases to as much as 50%.
--When you do freeze up, 50% chance to let go of anything you're pulling & also change intent to helpful.
-Attacks & disarm actions have 10% chance to miss (or maybe give you message saying you hesitate?).
-Suggestion-induced hallucinations? This one's probably the most ambitious thought, will leave it for another post.

HIGH DOSAGE (inhaling low pax amounts for 15 minutes straight, hit by a couple syringes holding 15u of distilled pax reagent, survived long battle where you repeatedly healed yourself with pills & patches while wearing contaminated gloves.).
-Attacks & disarm actions also get like 10% chance you'll target yourself AND a 10% chance that you'll drop any held item instead, for a total of 30% chance for attack to fail
-Chance that hearing statements with words like "kill", "lynch", "murder" or "attack" will change intent to aggressive.

How do you detect Pax?
Both the gas and reagent show up to analyzers just fine. Pax contamination of tables, sinks and hydroponic trays won't show directly on reagent scanners but can be confirmed through simple tests (confirm the orange has no pax, put it on table, check again.) Forensic scanners will detect all forms of pax contamination and even mention pax particles found on fingerprints and glove fibers. It could even hint towards how precisely a consumable was dosed- "totally covered" in pax particles if it was tainted by gas or sink, else "the underside is totally covered" if it was tainted by table or floor, else nothing (because any pax reagent was either injected in there by syringe or was present when the item was created).

You know it's Pax. How do you counter it?
Things like charcoal that purge chems don't work great against Pax (Either A: because the reagent somehow ignores the purgatives that work on every other chem, or B: because purging Pax reagent only stops the symptoms from increasing further, rather than undoing them.) The antidote to Pax is Synaptizine, which chem can make and botany can supply by growing ambrosia deus. Synaptizine will purge Pax from your system & quickly cure the symptoms. Not only that, a mixture with at least 1u of synaptizine can be sprayed on any tile to purge the pax contamination from all exposed objects.

Beyond that, there are lots of brute-force methods to mitigate the issues. Don a gas mask or use internals with a confirmed-pure gas mixture. Wash your hands/gloves in sinks if you can confirm they're clean. Stash clean gloves in your backpack or box and take them out only when eating or applying meds. Dismantle tables +floors and replace them. Grind things down and use chem-masters to filter the chems out. If your nefarious saboteurs/tyrannical authorities are abusing compli-o-nators, deafen yourself or don earmuffs.
Last edited by Dagdammit on Mon Sep 26, 2016 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Subtle Mind-Influencing Chemical Weapon

Post by DemonFiren » #213797

TL;DR: Around Pax you're forced to relax.
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non-lizard things:
Spoiler:
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Re: Subtle Mind-Influencing Chemical Weapon

Post by Dagdammit » #213805

Yeah sorry, tried to make it as readable as I could but it's still a wall of text. Added my pitiful attempt at a "short version" to the start of the post
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Re: Subtle Mind-Influencing Chemical Weapon

Post by Wyzack » #213897

Wasnt Pax also the name of that chemical in The Firefly movie that made most of that planet so docile they stopped eating and breathing and made the other smaller portion into Reavers?
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Re: Subtle Mind-Influencing Chemical Weapon

Post by Anonmare » #213898

Around Pax, neverALWAYS relax
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Re: Subtle Mind-Influencing Chemical Weapon

Post by Dagdammit » #213902

Wyzack wrote:Wasnt Pax also the name of that chemical in The Firefly movie that made most of that planet so docile they stopped eating and breathing and made the other smaller portion into Reavers?
Why yes.Yes it was.
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Re: Subtle Mind-Influencing Chemical Weapon

Post by IcePacks » #213913

pax is the roman goddess of peace, i feel like i've tried to explain this before

i honestly doubt this idea will work, but i still want to see it implemented. maybe add some roleplay cues in the chat log, get that roleplay magic going again?
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Re: Subtle Mind-Influencing Chemical Weapon

Post by Dagdammit » #213918

IcePacks wrote:pax is the roman goddess of peace, i feel like i've tried to explain this before

i honestly doubt this idea will work, but i still want to see it implemented. maybe add some roleplay cues in the chat log, get that roleplay magic going again?
The whole intent is to make it tricky to catch on, so I wanted to avoid unique messages (at least until high dosage levels?). The big factor driving rp+interaction would be how people react once someone cries Pax. Does command claim Pax is harmless? That the whistle-blower is mistaken? That it's not them introducing Pax into the system, and that they're putting arrest warrants on atmos techs as part of a search for some nefarious traitor? As crew, do you believe them?

What if sec starts openly using pax in their brig cells, even those brigged for minor offenses? Do you let it slide?
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Re: Subtle Mind-Influencing Chemical Weapon

Post by iamgoofball » #213921

I could do this after devicecrafting
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Re: Subtle Mind-Influencing Chemical Weapon

Post by Dagdammit » #214079

iamgoofball wrote:I could do this after devicecrafting
Awesome! Is there stuff I can do to assist? Could attempt pseudocode for the remaining hard details.
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Re: Subtle Mind-Influencing Chemical Weapon

Post by iamgoofball » #214463

Sprites, mainly
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Re: Subtle Mind-Influencing Chemical Weapon

Post by Dagdammit » #214573

Aight. Gas canister, mainly?
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Re: Subtle Mind-Influencing Chemical Weapon

Post by Dagdammit » #214926

Image Image
howzis
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Re: Subtle Mind-Influencing Chemical Weapon

Post by iamgoofball » #214928

Yeah, and a gas tile sprite for visible levels
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Re: Subtle Mind-Influencing Chemical Weapon

Post by Dagdammit » #214940

Image

Do all gas sprites use recolors of the same sprite frames you get for plasma? Can you link me to that sprite?
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Re: Subtle Mind-Influencing Chemical Weapon

Post by kevinz000 » #215157

Are you suggesting yet another invisible gas used for mass grief with no fucking legitimate uses because you think Bryce Pax is cool?
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Re: Subtle Mind-Influencing Chemical Weapon

Post by iamgoofball » #215158

No the name's a firefly(?) reference
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Re: Subtle Mind-Influencing Chemical Weapon

Post by Dagdammit » #215184

Yeah I have no idea who Bryce Pax is. And the gas is intended to much less of a threat so long as people catch on and can warn others via comms. Aim is to force the person using it to think.

Got a rough particle loop, need to animate and see if any good. Image
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Re: Subtle Mind-Influencing Chemical Weapon

Post by Luke Cox » #215504

Dagdammit wrote:Yeah I have no idea who Bryce Pax is. And the gas is intended to much less of a threat so long as people catch on and can warn others via comms. Aim is to force the person using it to think.
Pax is who this gas is going to be used on every shift.

On that note, how are things coming along? This looks very promising.
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Re: Subtle Mind-Influencing Chemical Weapon

Post by Dagdammit » #215617

Was able to test gas loop, 3-pixel long particles look crappy so I'm doing second draft.
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Re: Subtle Mind-Influencing Chemical Weapon

Post by PKPenguin321 » #215623

it feels like this would work better as a chem than a gas
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Re: Subtle Mind-Influencing Chemical Weapon

Post by Dagdammit » #215630

PKPenguin321 wrote:it feels like this would work better as a chem than a gas
It is a chem too. You can contaminate some random sink, fill a bunch of beakers, filter out the water and have distilled Pax chemical reagent to work with. Alternately, dump a plant bag out on a contaminated table, gather them all back up and grind them.
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Re: Subtle Mind-Influencing Chemical Weapon

Post by IcePacks » #215703

kevinz000 wrote:Are you suggesting yet another invisible gas used for mass grief with no fucking legitimate uses because you think Bryce Pax is cool?
one day we'll have kekhi brand valid whistles, bigger and more bold than any other font in the game
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Re: Subtle Mind-Influencing Chemical Weapon

Post by Dagdammit » #220634

Okay, think I have a decent gas particle loop.
Image

Final version would probably have several shades of grey, though I'll have to see it in practice to be sure. I actually WANT it to blend with the background to some degree- ideally just enough to not immediately catch your eye.

Goofball, this look like it'll work?
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Re: Subtle Mind-Influencing Chemical Weapon

Post by kevinz000 » #220748

fuck griefgas and fuck your necro too.
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Re: Subtle Mind-Influencing Chemical Weapon

Post by Dagdammit » #220834

Love you too, guy who carefully reads threads.

Out of curiousity, would you rather have BZ than this thing?
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Re: Subtle Mind-Influencing Chemical Weapon

Post by iamgoofball » #220835

Dagdammit wrote:Okay, think I have a decent gas particle loop.
Image

Final version would probably have several shades of grey, though I'll have to see it in practice to be sure. I actually WANT it to blend with the background to some degree- ideally just enough to not immediately catch your eye.

Goofball, this look like it'll work?
this is good, DMI it and send it here
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Re: Subtle Mind-Influencing Chemical Weapon

Post by Dagdammit » #220847

I'll try and figure out how to do that after work is done. Where would I go to find the .dmi with particle sprites for anither gas?
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Re: Subtle Mind-Influencing Chemical Weapon

Post by Dagdammit » #221031

Finally tracked the gas tile effects sprites down myself. God damn it, they're 32x32 after all. I'll see what I can come up with.
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Re: Subtle Mind-Influencing Chemical Weapon

Post by kevinz000 » #221646

honestly this would be a good REPLACEMENT for BZ, as hallucinations can flat-out knock you out with invisible gas.
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Re: Subtle Mind-Influencing Chemical Weapon

Post by Professor Hangar » #222001

BZ is less hallucination gas more crippling brain damage and comas with hallucinations on the side, at this point.

To go with the source material, I feel this should have a chance of reacting strangely with certain chemicals, especially those of traitor items, and turning people into killing machines occasionally.
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Re: Subtle Mind-Influencing Chemical Weapon

Post by Drynwyn » #222052

Subtlety in this form is useless in the current state of ss13.

It just is. Everyone learns the tells. Any effect will either be completely silent, or instantly identifiable. The instant people start freezing? ";PAX IN THE AIR"
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Re: Subtle Mind-Influencing Chemical Weapon

Post by Dagdammit » #222091

Drynwyn wrote:Subtlety in this form is useless in the current state of ss13.

It just is. Everyone learns the tells. Any effect will either be completely silent, or instantly identifiable. The instant people start freezing? ";PAX IN THE AIR"
But then what if it's not Pax in the air? What if it's just that the chef has pax-tainted gloves on? There's still gameplay- someone has to investigate the vectors by which people are being dosed, chem or botany needs to make synaptizine, and those assuming (or deliberately arguing) that command is releasing Pax on purpose may come up against heads trying to assure the crew they have done no such thing.
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Re: Subtle Mind-Influencing Chemical Weapon

Post by PKPenguin321 » #222300

Drynwyn wrote:Subtlety in this form is useless in the current state of ss13.

It just is. Everyone learns the tells. Any effect will either be completely silent, or instantly identifiable. The instant people start freezing? ";PAX IN THE AIR"
this is what ruined gang
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Re: Subtle Mind-Influencing Chemical Weapon

Post by Drynwyn » #222345

Dagdammit wrote:
Drynwyn wrote:Subtlety in this form is useless in the current state of ss13.

It just is. Everyone learns the tells. Any effect will either be completely silent, or instantly identifiable. The instant people start freezing? ";PAX IN THE AIR"
But then what if it's not Pax in the air? What if it's just that the chef has pax-tainted gloves on? There's still gameplay- someone has to investigate the vectors by which people are being dosed, chem or botany needs to make synaptizine, and those assuming (or deliberately arguing) that command is releasing Pax on purpose may come up against heads trying to assure the crew they have done no such thing.
The chef's glove wouldn't be tainted unless there had been pax in the air, people rarely eat food from the chef anyway, any Pax in the air would have to be command because an antagonist would be using BZ or plain old plasma fire.

Even if you manage it people will just scream for it to be a more obvious tell so they can get their murderboner on
In game, I play the A.I Firmware, the French cyborg C.U.R.I.E, Aubrie Allen, and the lizard scum Skulks-Through-Maintenance.
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Re: Subtle Mind-Influencing Chemical Weapon

Post by Dagdammit » #222422

Drynwyn wrote:
Dagdammit wrote:
Drynwyn wrote:Subtlety in this form is useless in the current state of ss13.

It just is. Everyone learns the tells. Any effect will either be completely silent, or instantly identifiable. The instant people start freezing? ";PAX IN THE AIR"
But then what if it's not Pax in the air? What if it's just that the chef has pax-tainted gloves on? There's still gameplay- someone has to investigate the vectors by which people are being dosed, chem or botany needs to make synaptizine, and those assuming (or deliberately arguing) that command is releasing Pax on purpose may come up against heads trying to assure the crew they have done no such thing.
The chef's glove wouldn't be tainted unless there had been pax in the air, people rarely eat food from the chef anyway, any Pax in the air would have to be command because an antagonist would be using BZ or plain old plasma fire.

Even if you manage it people will just scream for it to be a more obvious tell so they can get their murderboner on
I *think* you saw this already, but just in case I'll recap that the writeup does include the assumption that there'll be a way to get Pax via traitor uplink. Say, 1-TC Emergency Oxygen Tank containing 1013 kpa of Pax.

And if it was sound to assume only command would release Pax, that ALONE gives antags a great reason to use it- because people would automatically blame Command.

(For what it's worth: I have no idea how things will actually turn out in the end. Pax could ABSOLUTELY turn out to be shit in practice, completely fail to live up to the ambitions due to player base not behaving as one hopes/anticipates/envisions. I'll be kinda shocked if initial trials went any other way. But that's no excuse for failing to try, yanno?)
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Re: Subtle Mind-Influencing Chemical Weapon

Post by Drynwyn » #222872

Wouldn't mind seeing it tested if goof really wants to go to the work of coding it, but seems like a load of wasted effort to me.

Also you'd need a larger amount of gas than an eTank, unless pax is effective at such low concentrations that opening a canister would contaminate the entire accessible station.
In game, I play the A.I Firmware, the French cyborg C.U.R.I.E, Aubrie Allen, and the lizard scum Skulks-Through-Maintenance.
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