[POLL] Roundstart logouts and suicides reduce Antag chance

[Remie Richards]

https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/4306

Main:
Logging out or suiciding before a Defined ROUNDSTART_END_TIME (Defaults to 10 minutes) resorts in a variable on your savefile roundstart_logout_and_suicide_count going up by 1.
When rolling for an antagonist role, this is taken into account.
if roundstart_logout_and_suicide_count is between 2 defines, a MIN and a MAX the current antag loop ends, and you're placed back into the pool (so you were technically punished, but can still roll a lucky antag).
if it's between the MAX and INFINITY you are removed form the candidate list entirely for that round.
Admins can bypass this entirely using the usual create antagonist procs.
Whenever you are present for a round end, be in natural or by an Admin, your roundstart_logout_and_suicide_count is reduced by 1, allowing you to "earn" your normal antag rolls back overtime.

Why:
This is designed to encourage players staying in the round, and to discourage "I didn't get antag? Disconnect" behaviour.

[Reimoo]

What if people logout/suicide/space themselves immediately after 10 minutes then? What if someone is killed before 10 minutes and they logout? What if OOC issues pull someone away from the computer before 10 minutes? What if power outages/internet hiccups disconnect someone before 10 minutes? Regardless of the time limit, these issues still exist. Too many what ifs.

[Remie Richards]

What if people logout/suicide/space themselves immediately after 10 minutes then? What if someone is killed before 10 minutes and they logout? What if OOC issues pull someone away from the computer before 10 minutes? What if power outages/internet hiccups disconnect someone before 10 minutes? Regardless of the time limit, these issues still exist. Too many what ifs.

Working with Rock to go through issues.
Suiciding is logged now.

[Rockdtben]

FYI: Poll has no influence on this getting in or not.

I don't support automated punishment, but the data tracking portion of this will get into the ban DB.

[Scott]

I voted no but only if it's Assistants.

[Lo6a4evskiy]

What if people logout/suicide/space themselves immediately after 10 minutes then? What if someone is killed before 10 minutes and they logout? What if OOC issues pull someone away from the computer before 10 minutes? What if power outages/internet hiccups disconnect someone before 10 minutes? Regardless of the time limit, these issues still exist. Too many what ifs.

Pretty much. Don't we already have roundstart report that goes through to admins? I think making lowered antagonist chances would be a fine addition to admin arsenal, but as it stands it will hit too many wrong targets. Leave the logging in it, but let admins adjust it (in case it was ahelped) and don't make it automatically punish someone.

Not to mention that it's generally okay to leave as a role that is not important. Sometimes I roll to see if I get anything interesting (not an antag, a job) and if I don't, I just leave. What's wrong with that, if nobody else would get the slot anyway?

[Rockdtben]

What if people logout/suicide/space themselves immediately after 10 minutes then? What if someone is killed before 10 minutes and they logout? What if OOC issues pull someone away from the computer before 10 minutes? What if power outages/internet hiccups disconnect someone before 10 minutes? Regardless of the time limit, these issues still exist. Too many what ifs.

Pretty much. Don't we already have roundstart report that goes through to admins? I think making lowered antagonist chances would be a fine addition to admin arsenal, but as it stands it will hit too many wrong targets. Leave the logging in it, but let admins adjust it (in case it was ahelped) and don't make it automatically punish someone.

Not to mention that it's generally okay to leave as a role that is not important. Sometimes I roll to see if I get anything interesting (not an antag, a job) and if I don't, I just leave. What's wrong with that, if nobody else would get the slot anyway?

The report only covers important roles if I recall correctly. This would persistently cover that. Also I'll make sure to add the players current roll to the log.

[Remie Richards]

FYI: Poll has no influence on this getting in or not.

I don't support automated punishment, but the data tracking portion of this will get into the ban DB.

I just want to gather opinion, but fair enough.

[Lo6a4evskiy]

To be fair, I've seen quite a few people go braindead at the start of the round lately. Still, I think it should be reviewed on case-by-case basis by admins. Currently there is no ruling that I know of that doesn't allow you to leave or suicide if you are not a head.

I just realized that this is all pointless anyway and only will hurt people who disconnected because they had to for OOC reasons or power outage or whatever. Because I can just not use suicide verb and instead throw myself into space. If you track people who are in space, you will also track people who were killed and spaced. If you find a way around that (like I dunno, lack of logs of anyone interacting with me), I will ask chef to gib me or chaplain to space me. So yeah, I think ultimately this is rather pointless.

[Stickymayhem]

I think a good idea would be to give this functionality to be manually applied by admins as a lighter alternative to outright antag banning people for this kind of behaviour.

[Lovecraft]

Why does everyone suddenly want to reduce antag. chances?

[Alex Crimson]

Not sure about giving this power to admins. Will the player have any way to tell if his antag chances have been messed with? I hope so, otherwise players will not be able to tell if their chances have been unfairly reduced for whatever reason.

[Incoming]

Why does everyone suddenly want to reduce antag. chances?

well the pessimist in me would say that they want it because "a reduced chance for people who don't play the game like I play it" is the same thing as "an improved chance for me"

[Cheridan]

Why does everyone suddenly want to reduce antag. chances?

well the pessimist in me would say that they want it because "a reduced chance for people who don't play the game like I play it" is the same thing as "an improved chance for me"

That's stupid. To quote An0n3, logging out if you didn't get antag is like trying to play Hide and Seek but running off if you didn't get to be the seeker. It's shitlery, and it's punishable here.

I think a good idea would be to give this functionality to be manually applied by admins as a lighter alternative to outright antag banning people for this kind of behaviour.

I agree with you there. Automated adminning is often flakey at best. But if I NO ANTAG logouts were recorded and easily visible, then admins can take note of it and handle it manually.

[MisterPerson]

It's up to the admins what gets done. All this will do is give them the right tools to properly catch and document this behavior. The logout report is better than nothing but it's buggy, only covers roundstart and not latejoiners, and isn't logged.

[bandit]

There's already precedent for antag bans being applied for habitual roundstart suiciders/logouts. More data collection is fine, but I'm against anything automated. Plus, with an antag ban, people with legitimate extenuating circumstances will know and can appeal it, whereas if it's a variable they may never know it's happening especially if they don't read the changelog/forums.

[Rockdtben]

Just so everyone knows. All of the points brought up here we already covered in the PR.