On Chemistry
- oranges
- Code Maintainer
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On Chemistry
it has so many absurdly powerful reactions and explosions that every other department eventually ends up with some kind of grenade option, for end game content, or just to put them on an even footing with the absurdity of it.
The chemical seperaiton trait would literally not matter if chemistry recipes were actually difficult but they're not.
You just shit macros into the chemistry dispenser and out pops bombs and smoke acid murder greandes, somewhere along the line, chemistry stopped being an actual job and just became a machine that spits out things to cause reactions with.
we need to do away with the chem dispenser entirely, make all reagents gathered from xenobio and botany sources and add actual work recipes to distil and mix chemicals
i.e you have to heat things to temperatures, burn off side products etc
Then we can actually have the rest of the game use chemistry without being stupidly broken and having to play nerf hammer on random departments because they can create too many chemical reactions too easily.
So what does that look like?
It's a limited supply of tier 1 ingredients available to the chemistry lab, in packed beakers.
New equipment for turning plants and slimes into chemistry reagents, based on temperature and time processing (equipment that only exists in the chemistry lab)
New equipment for mixing and heating those reagents, to form the chemical reagents that get you to tier two and three chemistry that lets you make actually useful reactions, with byproducts/wasteproducts you need to have filters for and so forth, or they might mix and cause explosions and or other bad reactions that destroy your equipment/lab/life.
the ability to combine a set of equipment into a "production chain" that takes in plants/slimes/starter chemicals and then pushes them through the process on a timer and then at the end you have waste products and the final chemistry. (So you can set up a line and then mass produce, assuming you can deal with waste product), if you've seen the game spacechem, it's like that, but on a smaller scale.
Possibility to construct (with tech webs research) or buy more equipment, so you can create more chains, with more intricate combinations leading to the really good chemicals.
Fix chemistry and a lot of the other departments can have back their chemical grenade substitutes, until then, it's gonna remain a sore point.
PS: dont' even get me started on xenobiology, there's very little there that can represent actual FARMING, the adv xenobio console needs to be taken out the back and shot in the head repeatedly, it removed anything that actually resembled busy work, and its going to be a real bitch to pull that tooth, although if we're all honest with each other, the only reason it exists is because slime farming is boring as shit with very little in the way of interactive content that requires thought, so that would need a shit tonne of fixing too.
The chemical seperaiton trait would literally not matter if chemistry recipes were actually difficult but they're not.
You just shit macros into the chemistry dispenser and out pops bombs and smoke acid murder greandes, somewhere along the line, chemistry stopped being an actual job and just became a machine that spits out things to cause reactions with.
we need to do away with the chem dispenser entirely, make all reagents gathered from xenobio and botany sources and add actual work recipes to distil and mix chemicals
i.e you have to heat things to temperatures, burn off side products etc
Then we can actually have the rest of the game use chemistry without being stupidly broken and having to play nerf hammer on random departments because they can create too many chemical reactions too easily.
So what does that look like?
It's a limited supply of tier 1 ingredients available to the chemistry lab, in packed beakers.
New equipment for turning plants and slimes into chemistry reagents, based on temperature and time processing (equipment that only exists in the chemistry lab)
New equipment for mixing and heating those reagents, to form the chemical reagents that get you to tier two and three chemistry that lets you make actually useful reactions, with byproducts/wasteproducts you need to have filters for and so forth, or they might mix and cause explosions and or other bad reactions that destroy your equipment/lab/life.
the ability to combine a set of equipment into a "production chain" that takes in plants/slimes/starter chemicals and then pushes them through the process on a timer and then at the end you have waste products and the final chemistry. (So you can set up a line and then mass produce, assuming you can deal with waste product), if you've seen the game spacechem, it's like that, but on a smaller scale.
Possibility to construct (with tech webs research) or buy more equipment, so you can create more chains, with more intricate combinations leading to the really good chemicals.
Fix chemistry and a lot of the other departments can have back their chemical grenade substitutes, until then, it's gonna remain a sore point.
PS: dont' even get me started on xenobiology, there's very little there that can represent actual FARMING, the adv xenobio console needs to be taken out the back and shot in the head repeatedly, it removed anything that actually resembled busy work, and its going to be a real bitch to pull that tooth, although if we're all honest with each other, the only reason it exists is because slime farming is boring as shit with very little in the way of interactive content that requires thought, so that would need a shit tonne of fixing too.
- Farquaar
- Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:20 am
- Byond Username: Farquaar
- Location: Delta Quadrant
Re: Chemistry is a disease
The chemistry revamp you propose certainly sounds intriguing. My only concern would be the consequences for lowpop rounds where many of the reagent-collector jobs aren’t being filled. This is a problem with any level of interdepartmental dependence, but it’s worth addressing.
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- oranges
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Re: Chemistry is a disease
Just move botany into science and make it accessible by scientists, along with the chemistry lab and that problem is solved.
- Farquaar
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- Location: Delta Quadrant
Re: Chemistry is a disease
I’m fine for science to have access to botany, but on stations like Box and Pubby it would be difficult to relocate into the science department without greatly inconveniencing chefs who rely on botany being adjacent to their workstation. I get vietnam flashbacks thinking about playing chef on Omega
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- oranges
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Re: Chemistry is a disease
You don't have to move it they're across a hallway
- Farquaar
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- Location: Delta Quadrant
Re: Chemistry is a disease
oranges wrote:Just move botany into science
Well excuse me, citric code manoranges wrote:You don't have to move it they're across a hallway
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- oranges
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Re: Chemistry is a disease
the job, not the room, stupid ass
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Re: Chemistry is a disease
If you remove chem dispensers add basic chems and commonly used advanced chems to cargo to be ordered in crates.
Most of the time saving devices like the xenobio console were added because of how short rounds can be. It will be VERY frustrating to have these two jobs slown down while keeping the destructive potential of antagonists the same.
Most of the time saving devices like the xenobio console were added because of how short rounds can be. It will be VERY frustrating to have these two jobs slown down while keeping the destructive potential of antagonists the same.
- oranges
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Re: Chemistry is a disease
Yes, I have ideas about round length issues, but that is another thread entirely.
- Shadowflame909
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Re: Chemistry is a disease
Holy shit Oranges is whipping out the Machine Gun today.
Imo the best nerf to Xenobio would be to give them that Citadel Treatment.
You have to do everything hands on, until RND gives you those upgrade disks.
To address the rest of this Idea, it literally reminds me of what Paradise did.
Paradise has two chemistrys.
Medical is for only good healing stuff, and Science has their own which is for dangerous Chemical-Recipes.
I don't know if Paradise also has xeno-botany where regular Botany makes the ingredients and crops for food, whilst Science makes the dangerous botany items. Or if that was another server entirely.
But other servers have already pulled the tooth out on this, so I wouldn't be against it. As it's been tried and done, and everything works perfectly fine.
Imo the best nerf to Xenobio would be to give them that Citadel Treatment.
You have to do everything hands on, until RND gives you those upgrade disks.
To address the rest of this Idea, it literally reminds me of what Paradise did.
Paradise has two chemistrys.
Medical is for only good healing stuff, and Science has their own which is for dangerous Chemical-Recipes.
I don't know if Paradise also has xeno-botany where regular Botany makes the ingredients and crops for food, whilst Science makes the dangerous botany items. Or if that was another server entirely.
But other servers have already pulled the tooth out on this, so I wouldn't be against it. As it's been tried and done, and everything works perfectly fine.
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- Mickyan
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Re: Chemistry is a disease
Sounds nice. I still have issues with medical being too dependent on chemistry but one problem at a time I guess
Funny to think that as it stands playing chef is harder than chemistry
Funny to think that as it stands playing chef is harder than chemistry
- Atlanta-Ned
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Re: Chemistry is a disease
Chemistry becoming part of science is an exciting prospect. Can we somehow take advantage of this to make our medical system somewhat more involved?
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OOC: Pizzatiger: God damn Atlanta, how are you so fucking smart and charming. It fucking pisses me off how perfect you are
OOC: Pizzatiger: God damn Atlanta, how are you so fucking smart and charming. It fucking pisses me off how perfect you are
- Shadowflame909
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Re: Chemistry is a disease
Why haven't we combined MD and chemistry yet. Doing that along with a science chemistry would literally leave no department staple contentless
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- Farquaar
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- Location: Delta Quadrant
Re: Chemistry is a disease
Tiered ingredients would be a nice first step in that direction, for sure.Atlanta-Ned wrote:Chemistry becoming part of science is an exciting prospect. Can we somehow take advantage of this to make our medical system somewhat more involved?
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Re: Chemistry is a disease
Several thoughts besides the necessary “viro doesn’t even cure viruses lmao the chemist does and then he uses the holodeck pandemic”
For a serious lifeweb comparison, chemistry is done in the medbay basement, which has a few quirks that could apply here:
1. Chems are in bottles (3 100u bottles per chem on average) to mix by hand, on a large array of tables with each bottle labelled with element name and color (pink bottle with LU written on it for lutetium etc.) more can be bought from ‘cargo’, with one element, initripodril, being rare and impossible to order. High risk of spilling or breaking chemical bottles. Maybe I should get a pic. edit, here's one:
Here, bottles could be interesting, especially if botany is a good place to get rarer chems like it is for omnizine (hahaha no) we have a bottle setup on the ghost role station and that felt satisfying to mix bicard with when meds ran out, but of course that setup was a tiny room with a tenth the chemicals of the lifeweb mixing room.
Most importantly, it’d be a way to separate chemistry without, well, separating chemistry. We could give virology bottles of chems used in virus making and curing, for example, or give a department a limited selection of chems. Maybe the dispenser could stay as a hard to get research machine. Could work with...
2. The isabelle, lifeweb’s chemmaster, is a rare machine that is used for identifying chemicals, separating them, making pills or bottles, and Safely performing complex chemical reactions. Think the difference between making a bottle of potassium iodide and making a bottle of calomel. In lifeweb, this is based on the person’s medical skill, to avoid some guy with a hammer bashing in and flooding the drug market with heroin and cyanide. Risky alternatives include heating the chemical to react it, risking it boiling and you inhaling some.
I originally wasn’t gonna mention it, since it’s based on a skill system. However, what if we based ours off the stock parts used to make our chemmaster? Higher quality parts could be needed to make higher quality chemicals like clf3 or rezadone. You could also give the machine an access requirement or make it take time to react, god forbid. Not all reactions would need the chemmaster, and dangerous alternatives to mix chemicals could exist, like shocking the beaker, adding in extra catalyst chemicals, and stirring it scarily. Actually, all 3 could be tools for chemists to cause reactions.
3. I forgot
Tl;Dr
If we mix chems in bottles it makes obtaining chems interesting and we could give setups to places like virology. Make the chem dispenser a buildable machine requiring research or some shit.
We could add new ways to react complex chemicals, and make the chemmaster required to react stuff safely based on its stock part rating.
For a serious lifeweb comparison, chemistry is done in the medbay basement, which has a few quirks that could apply here:
1. Chems are in bottles (3 100u bottles per chem on average) to mix by hand, on a large array of tables with each bottle labelled with element name and color (pink bottle with LU written on it for lutetium etc.) more can be bought from ‘cargo’, with one element, initripodril, being rare and impossible to order. High risk of spilling or breaking chemical bottles. Maybe I should get a pic. edit, here's one:
Spoiler:
Most importantly, it’d be a way to separate chemistry without, well, separating chemistry. We could give virology bottles of chems used in virus making and curing, for example, or give a department a limited selection of chems. Maybe the dispenser could stay as a hard to get research machine. Could work with...
2. The isabelle, lifeweb’s chemmaster, is a rare machine that is used for identifying chemicals, separating them, making pills or bottles, and Safely performing complex chemical reactions. Think the difference between making a bottle of potassium iodide and making a bottle of calomel. In lifeweb, this is based on the person’s medical skill, to avoid some guy with a hammer bashing in and flooding the drug market with heroin and cyanide. Risky alternatives include heating the chemical to react it, risking it boiling and you inhaling some.
I originally wasn’t gonna mention it, since it’s based on a skill system. However, what if we based ours off the stock parts used to make our chemmaster? Higher quality parts could be needed to make higher quality chemicals like clf3 or rezadone. You could also give the machine an access requirement or make it take time to react, god forbid. Not all reactions would need the chemmaster, and dangerous alternatives to mix chemicals could exist, like shocking the beaker, adding in extra catalyst chemicals, and stirring it scarily. Actually, all 3 could be tools for chemists to cause reactions.
3. I forgot
Tl;Dr
If we mix chems in bottles it makes obtaining chems interesting and we could give setups to places like virology. Make the chem dispenser a buildable machine requiring research or some shit.
We could add new ways to react complex chemicals, and make the chemmaster required to react stuff safely based on its stock part rating.
Last edited by confused rock on Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Chemistry is a disease
To add to rock's idea you could also make the dispenser always fill a container so you still have to mix by hand
Current chem is fine though imo
Current chem is fine though imo
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- Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2016 7:47 pm
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Re: Chemistry is a disease
Which is why oranges must fuck with it.somerandomguy wrote: Current chem is fine though imo
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- Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2018 10:34 pm
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Re: Chemistry is a disease
As someone who spent a year mostly playing as chemist and balancing/attempting to overhaul chemistry as a whole on Hippie Station, I'm gonna give my thoughts which are hopefully more informed than most. I know TG isn't Hippie, but most of what I have to say still applies.
First of all, Chemistry will never have a job to do until either Medical is overhauled entirely or the following happens:
1. Advanced healing medicines are improved, and possibly simplified.
2. Patches and/or touch-based healing chemicals are nerfed to shit.
3. Either sleepers or part research is nerfed in some way.
It takes zero effort and isn't engaging at all to shit out patches that heal 40(50?) HP instantly and then heal even more over time. These chemicals are far, far more efficient than any advanced medicines you could make. Just look at the wiki pages, they're fucking garbage. Salicyclic Acid and Oxandrolone are terrible, Tricord got nerfed to hell and stacking healing chems is so inefficient compared to patches it's not worth doing. By nerfing patches, advanced meds would at least be useful if taken outside of medbay, while nerfng sleepers or parts would make them worth using in medbay as well.
With that out of the way, let's talk about chemistry's destructive power. Explosions, foams, smokes and general death have been buffed incredibly hard in an indirect manner recently. Plastic sheets and public autolathes give chemists an unlimited amount of large beakers at roundstart, meaning that your average explosive payload has been doubled compared to when you only had three large beakers (So one 200u blast at most), and the rest was small beakers. You had two boxes of them, but they were still finite too unless cargo really liked you. Bluespace beakers were also harder to get without techwebs and departmental lathes, meaning that you couldn't throw around maxcap water/potas all day because a 600u blast of anything is absolutely ridiculous. Nitroglycerin is botany-limited (which is good) and 6x as powerful as water/potas, but it's absolutely irrelevant when chemicals like phlogiston and exploding meth exist, plasma smoke and plasma sheets release ridiculous amounts of death gas and because it's faster to get bluespace beakers than it is to get botany to collaborate and make even 50u of nitro. Either make it harder to get decent sized containers, remove grenades entirely like goon, or give explosions logarithmic scaling so you get diminishing returns for stacking garbage-tier explosives.
As for the existence of OP chemicals and wanting them to be harder to make, making chemicals finite, IMO, really excessive considering the server we're on. I wouldn't even mind making the chem dispenser dispense bottles and forcing you to mix them manually, but making chemistry rely on other departments for basic supplies isn't something that I could see working. Maybe in some future where people have more of an attention span and willingly cooperate, but for now there are plenty of ways to make chemistry harder, balanced and more importantly, more engaging without gimping the job. Here are a few examples from other servers that actually worked:
Chemistry doesn't need a complete overhaul IMO, it just needs its stupidest elements curbstomped out of the codebase and some new(or old) mechanics to reintroduce some semblance of skill and effort.
First of all, Chemistry will never have a job to do until either Medical is overhauled entirely or the following happens:
1. Advanced healing medicines are improved, and possibly simplified.
2. Patches and/or touch-based healing chemicals are nerfed to shit.
3. Either sleepers or part research is nerfed in some way.
It takes zero effort and isn't engaging at all to shit out patches that heal 40(50?) HP instantly and then heal even more over time. These chemicals are far, far more efficient than any advanced medicines you could make. Just look at the wiki pages, they're fucking garbage. Salicyclic Acid and Oxandrolone are terrible, Tricord got nerfed to hell and stacking healing chems is so inefficient compared to patches it's not worth doing. By nerfing patches, advanced meds would at least be useful if taken outside of medbay, while nerfng sleepers or parts would make them worth using in medbay as well.
With that out of the way, let's talk about chemistry's destructive power. Explosions, foams, smokes and general death have been buffed incredibly hard in an indirect manner recently. Plastic sheets and public autolathes give chemists an unlimited amount of large beakers at roundstart, meaning that your average explosive payload has been doubled compared to when you only had three large beakers (So one 200u blast at most), and the rest was small beakers. You had two boxes of them, but they were still finite too unless cargo really liked you. Bluespace beakers were also harder to get without techwebs and departmental lathes, meaning that you couldn't throw around maxcap water/potas all day because a 600u blast of anything is absolutely ridiculous. Nitroglycerin is botany-limited (which is good) and 6x as powerful as water/potas, but it's absolutely irrelevant when chemicals like phlogiston and exploding meth exist, plasma smoke and plasma sheets release ridiculous amounts of death gas and because it's faster to get bluespace beakers than it is to get botany to collaborate and make even 50u of nitro. Either make it harder to get decent sized containers, remove grenades entirely like goon, or give explosions logarithmic scaling so you get diminishing returns for stacking garbage-tier explosives.
As for the existence of OP chemicals and wanting them to be harder to make, making chemicals finite, IMO, really excessive considering the server we're on. I wouldn't even mind making the chem dispenser dispense bottles and forcing you to mix them manually, but making chemistry rely on other departments for basic supplies isn't something that I could see working. Maybe in some future where people have more of an attention span and willingly cooperate, but for now there are plenty of ways to make chemistry harder, balanced and more importantly, more engaging without gimping the job. Here are a few examples from other servers that actually worked:
- Trekchem gated a lot of the best chemicals behind plasma catalysts, which made shitting out the strong stuff harder and at forced you stop and distil the plasma every time you went through that step. The change was lost with goofchem, which also introduced some insane shit that isn't secret or hard to make at all, so here we are now.
- Hippiestation, both now and before the first rebase, had a science-based expansion known as Casschem, which introduced four new machines for mixing chemicals. The chemicals made are strong but are often actually hard to make, have meaningful side effects and require multiple steps with various byproducts made on the way.
- Between the first rebase and now Hippie lost Casschem but a lot of chemistry was done by greyshirts in the maint chemistry lab anyway. With limited beakers and no heaters outside of a lighter, things were actually way more challenging. Medical was also partially reverted to a trek variant, meaning that plasma management was now a thing and healing chemicals were actually worth making.
- Goon just makes the strongest stuff secret, adds some depth with macros coded in brainfuck, and makes explosives/foams/smokes actually require some forethought due to the lack of standard grenades for non-traitors. I don't see it working here but it's a thing.
- Some plants on /vg/ produce variants of lab-made chemicals, by teaming up with botany, chemists can make very efficient healing pills (which work because they're still on trek).
Chemistry doesn't need a complete overhaul IMO, it just needs its stupidest elements curbstomped out of the codebase and some new(or old) mechanics to reintroduce some semblance of skill and effort.
- oranges
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Re: Chemistry is a disease
Your well considered thoughts are welcomed, but just fyi It's not gimping the job when you're making it an actual job that requires you to do more than to copy paste macros into a chem dispenser.
making chemistry reliant on botany and xenobio can only improve the situation for all three departments by bringing them together as a "science" content.
think of chemist as not the job of someone who just refines chemicals in a lab all day, instead its someone who works in botany/xenobio (and has access) to make reagents and then their reward is getting to refine those reagents into grenades with cool effects.
If chemistry reagents required either slime or plant growing, we could easily ramp up the number of powerful chems available.
making chemistry reliant on botany and xenobio can only improve the situation for all three departments by bringing them together as a "science" content.
think of chemist as not the job of someone who just refines chemicals in a lab all day, instead its someone who works in botany/xenobio (and has access) to make reagents and then their reward is getting to refine those reagents into grenades with cool effects.
If chemistry reagents required either slime or plant growing, we could easily ramp up the number of powerful chems available.
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Re: Chemistry is a disease
Why take offense with chemistry of all things with the current state of xenobio?
- PKPenguin321
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Re: Chemistry is a disease
If chemistry had an element of randomization that could be solved through a minigame like the new genetics system has, it would work a lot better IMO. The problem oranges points out in the OP is that the availability of chems from a chem dispenser means that you can get anything and everything that chemistry has to offer within minutes of roundstart, which happens to include superpoisons, bombs, death smoke, etc. A randomized element (maybe in the form of sci-fi chemicals that you must research to know what they do, and they can act as a catalyst and barrier to entry for a number of chem reactions) for chemistry would fix this availability issue without affecting almost every other area that the chemistry system touches.
i play Lauser McMauligan. clown name is Cold-Ass Honkey
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
Spoiler:
- iamgoofball
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Re: Chemistry is a disease
does this mean we can finally make chemistry the border job between medbay and science instead of genetics, like I've been saying we should do for years?oranges wrote:If chemistry reagents required either slime or plant growing, we could easily ramp up the number of powerful chems available.
- lmwevil
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Re: Chemistry is a disease
good idea, also gives me lifeweb feels somewhat with how you described it (that's great)
inb4 oranges has a snappy comeback about russian servers being bad
inb4 oranges has a snappy comeback about russian servers being bad
- MisterPerson
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Re: Chemistry is a disease
Lack of scarcity is a recurring problem with the game at-large that affects chemistry badly.
I code for the code project and moderate the code sections of the forums.
Feedback is dumb and it doesn't matter
Feedback is dumb and it doesn't matter
- datorangebottle
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:53 am
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Re: Chemistry is a disease
Am I the only one who doesn't think chemistry is in a bad place right now?
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Fri Jul 07, 2023 9:16 pm I highly doubt any other admin on the team would have given you this chance, except maybe Kieth because his brain worms are almost as bad as mine.
Vekter wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 4:45 pm At what point does someone's refusal or failure to improve become malice in and of itself? If you give someone a year to stop shitting on the carpet and they keep doing it but get slightly closer to the bathroom every time and sometimes they get to the toilet before it happens, at what point does it become acceptable to just ask them to go shit in someone else's house?
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:00 pm I'm sorry, can we get a real player to resolve this appeal? I don't like this trial player. They can't even set their own name.
sinfulbliss wrote: ↑I almost prefer Rave's AI-generated "We cannot accept this appeal at this time. If you would like assistance appealing in the future, please dial 1-800-1984-1488."
Pandarsenic wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:25 pm I think we can all agree that someone throwing a reverse revolver at Zyb as a secret test of character, and Zyb immediately fucking himself with it, is the best thing we all could have received for Christmas this year
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Re: Chemistry is a disease
You're not, half these people don't even play enough to know chemistry from the hole in their ass. They don't care what anyone actually experiencing the content thinks, they just know better than the playerbase, or to be totally realistic, absolutely anyone that disagrees with them. It's getting pretty pathetic.
- iamgoofball
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Re: Chemistry is a disease
you should join #coderbus and shit again, discord is for nerdsMisterPerson wrote:Lack of scarcity is a recurring problem with the game at-large that affects chemistry badly.
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- bandit
- Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:35 pm
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Re: Chemistry is a disease
has anyone consulted reed about this
edit: I did in fact consult reed about this he said "I'll need to have read through how it's all meant to work before I can formulate an opinion."
edit: I did in fact consult reed about this he said "I'll need to have read through how it's all meant to work before I can formulate an opinion."
Last edited by bandit on Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- datorangebottle
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- Byond Username: Datorangebottle
Re: Chemistry is a disease
Seriously. There's nothing wrong with chemistry in its current state. There was nothing wrong with Botany in its state before separated chemicals was REMOVED, instead of being added to role-specific traitor items or something more interesting like that. If this keeps up, nobody will play because all the fun shit was deleted and replaced with nothing, tedium, or interesting and fun features like stench.Zarniwoop wrote:You're not, half these people don't even play enough to know chemistry from the hole in their ass. They don't care what anyone actually experiencing the content thinks, they just know better than the playerbase, or to be totally realistic, absolutely anyone that disagrees with them. It's getting pretty pathetic.
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Fri Jul 07, 2023 9:16 pm I highly doubt any other admin on the team would have given you this chance, except maybe Kieth because his brain worms are almost as bad as mine.
Vekter wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 4:45 pm At what point does someone's refusal or failure to improve become malice in and of itself? If you give someone a year to stop shitting on the carpet and they keep doing it but get slightly closer to the bathroom every time and sometimes they get to the toilet before it happens, at what point does it become acceptable to just ask them to go shit in someone else's house?
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:00 pm I'm sorry, can we get a real player to resolve this appeal? I don't like this trial player. They can't even set their own name.
sinfulbliss wrote: ↑I almost prefer Rave's AI-generated "We cannot accept this appeal at this time. If you would like assistance appealing in the future, please dial 1-800-1984-1488."
Pandarsenic wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:25 pm I think we can all agree that someone throwing a reverse revolver at Zyb as a secret test of character, and Zyb immediately fucking himself with it, is the best thing we all could have received for Christmas this year
- zxaber
- In-Game Admin
- Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:00 am
- Byond Username: Zxaber
Re: Chemistry is a disease
As long as it doesn't take too much work to get Mannitol. Ever since that whole debraining damage thing it's not uncommon for me to need Mannitol just to make a brain borg-able.
- actioninja
- Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:40 am
- Byond Username: Actioninja
- Location: comatose
Re: Chemistry is a disease
What's wrong with chemistry is that even without macros, clicking buttons on one screen is not engaging gameplay.
The reworks here that oranges are proposing WOULD be engaging gameplay. I don't know if any of you have ever gone out of your way to make some of the chems you can't make with just a chem dispenser, but bopping around to try to scavenge shit together is super fun compared to punching in a premade macro and obliterating some idiot with a mousetrap nade.
And this would be a lot better than that.
The reworks here that oranges are proposing WOULD be engaging gameplay. I don't know if any of you have ever gone out of your way to make some of the chems you can't make with just a chem dispenser, but bopping around to try to scavenge shit together is super fun compared to punching in a premade macro and obliterating some idiot with a mousetrap nade.
And this would be a lot better than that.
- Pizzatiger
- Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 2:44 pm
- Byond Username: Pizzatiger
Re: Chemistry is a disease
I would honestly love if chemisty was some sort of factory like minigame though I doubt our current chemisty rooms are large enough to hold entire factories. If needed though we could use chemistry as a test bed for the new Multi-z level station system and add a second floor to chemistry to hold their new factory machines
- Shadowflame909
- Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:18 pm
- Byond Username: Shadowflame909
- Location: Think about something witty and pretend I put it here
Re: Chemistry is a disease
Don't forget cloning got double nerfed, so now round-start cloning gives lesser brain-traumas.zxaber wrote:As long as it doesn't take too much work to get Mannitol. Ever since that whole debraining damage thing it's not uncommon for me to need Mannitol just to make a brain borg-able.
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- datorangebottle
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:53 am
- Byond Username: Datorangebottle
Re: Chemistry is a disease
Okay, but making literally the entire chem lab rely on other departments for stuff sounds obnoxious at best and aggravating at worst. What does chem do when there are no botanists? When there's no xenobiologist(it has happened before, all of one round)! Do they just sit on their hands and pray for one to join?actioninja wrote:What's wrong with chemistry is that even without macros, clicking buttons on one screen is not engaging gameplay.
The reworks here that oranges are proposing WOULD be engaging gameplay. I don't know if any of you have ever gone out of your way to make some of the chems you can't make with just a chem dispenser, but bopping around to try to scavenge shit together is super fun compared to punching in a premade macro and obliterating some idiot with a mousetrap nade.
And this would be a lot better than that.
I mean, I'm all for other departments having more involvement as long as that can happen without removing most of chemistry's autonomy. The best part of chem is it just working. You will always have cryoxadone with a half-decent chemist. You will always have styptic powder and silver. I really dislike the idea of neutering the department's power when two departments are reliant on their ability to reliably produce certain chemicals at the start of the shift- Botany for mutagen and saltpetre, Medbay for medicine.
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Fri Jul 07, 2023 9:16 pm I highly doubt any other admin on the team would have given you this chance, except maybe Kieth because his brain worms are almost as bad as mine.
Vekter wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 4:45 pm At what point does someone's refusal or failure to improve become malice in and of itself? If you give someone a year to stop shitting on the carpet and they keep doing it but get slightly closer to the bathroom every time and sometimes they get to the toilet before it happens, at what point does it become acceptable to just ask them to go shit in someone else's house?
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:00 pm I'm sorry, can we get a real player to resolve this appeal? I don't like this trial player. They can't even set their own name.
sinfulbliss wrote: ↑I almost prefer Rave's AI-generated "We cannot accept this appeal at this time. If you would like assistance appealing in the future, please dial 1-800-1984-1488."
Pandarsenic wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:25 pm I think we can all agree that someone throwing a reverse revolver at Zyb as a secret test of character, and Zyb immediately fucking himself with it, is the best thing we all could have received for Christmas this year
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- Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:18 am
- Byond Username: The unloved rock
Re: Chemistry is a disease
Okay, but making literally the entire science lab rely on other departments for stuff sounds obnoxious at best and aggravating at worst. What does science do when there are no miners? When there's no power (it has happened before, all of one round)! Do they just sit on their hands and pray for one to join?
Okay, but making literally the entire janitor rely on other departments for floor buffer upgrades sounds obnoxious at best and aggravating at worst. What does janitor do when there are no floor buffers?
Okay, but making the assumption that those are the only thing that'd allow you to do chemistry and that no other department needs help from other people sounds obnoxious at best and aggravating at worst.
Okay, but making literally the entire janitor rely on other departments for floor buffer upgrades sounds obnoxious at best and aggravating at worst. What does janitor do when there are no floor buffers?
Okay, but making the assumption that those are the only thing that'd allow you to do chemistry and that no other department needs help from other people sounds obnoxious at best and aggravating at worst.
- Shadowflame909
- Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:18 pm
- Byond Username: Shadowflame909
- Location: Think about something witty and pretend I put it here
Re: Chemistry is a disease
Remember when we made sleepers rely on chemistry.
Doctors became so useless so fast, and everyone would break into medicals Medical storage so much that it wasn't even funny
Doctors became so useless so fast, and everyone would break into medicals Medical storage so much that it wasn't even funny
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- Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:18 am
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- Shadowflame909
- Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:18 pm
- Byond Username: Shadowflame909
- Location: Think about something witty and pretend I put it here
Re: Chemistry is a disease
If the code is going against the whims of the playerbase, who is it for?
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- Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:18 am
- Byond Username: The unloved rock
- actioninja
- Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:40 am
- Byond Username: Actioninja
- Location: comatose
Re: Chemistry is a disease
Players don't ever know what the fuck they want.Shadowflame909 wrote:If the code is going against the whims of the playerbase, who is it for?
- Shadowflame909
- Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:18 pm
- Byond Username: Shadowflame909
- Location: Think about something witty and pretend I put it here
Re: Chemistry is a disease
Let me explain:
"NERFS BAD"
"IMPROVE DONT REMOVE"
"WHY DO YOU WANT TO SEE THE WORLD BURN!"
"NERFS BAD"
"IMPROVE DONT REMOVE"
"WHY DO YOU WANT TO SEE THE WORLD BURN!"
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- Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:31 pm
- Byond Username: DrBee
Re: Chemistry is a disease
Good first step would be to remove bluespace beakers or make them 200 units instead of 300 units.
Make a stationary chemical vat for mass chemical mixing, so you can mass produce chems but cant make maxcaps with chem grenades.
Make a stationary chemical vat for mass chemical mixing, so you can mass produce chems but cant make maxcaps with chem grenades.
- oranges
- Code Maintainer
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:16 pm
- Byond Username: Optimumtact
- Github Username: optimumtact
- Location: #CHATSHITGETBANGED
Re: Chemistry is a disease
No they become the xenobio/botanist.datorangebottle wrote:Okay, but making literally the entire chem lab rely on other departments for stuff sounds obnoxious at best and aggravating at worst. What does chem do when there are no botanists? When there's no xenobiologist(it has happened before, all of one round)! Do they just sit on their hands and pray for one to join?
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- Code Maintainer
- Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:04 pm
- Byond Username: Kryson
Re: Chemistry is a disease
Engineering could use surplus energy for electrolysis to create hydrogen, chlorine, fluorine, sodium and the like from water / brine.
Then you could even get atmos involved to create base chemicals.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process
I would love a more involved and realistic chemistry system.
There are many options if you want to partially or fully kill the dispenser.
Then you could even get atmos involved to create base chemicals.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process
Silver, copper, aluminium and iron could be obtain from mining.The process converts atmospheric nitrogen (N2) to ammonia (NH3) by a reaction with hydrogen (H2) using a metal catalyst under high temperatures and pressures:
I would love a more involved and realistic chemistry system.
There are many options if you want to partially or fully kill the dispenser.
- Shadowflame909
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- Byond Username: Shadowflame909
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- iksyp
- Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:47 pm
- Byond Username: Iksyp
- Location: usa usa usa usa usa(?)
Re: Chemistry is a disease
because xenobio is still timegated to a degree and doesn't provide gamebreaking items nearly as quicklyBooktower wrote:Why take offense with chemistry of all things with the current state of xenobio?
- Shadowflame909
- Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:18 pm
- Byond Username: Shadowflame909
- Location: Think about something witty and pretend I put it here
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- Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:41 pm
- Byond Username: Astatineguy12
Re: Chemistry is a disease
WhatShadowflame909 wrote:Assistants can get nukie hardsuits and one pulse pistol
How
That sounds broken as hell
- oranges
- Code Maintainer
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- Byond Username: Optimumtact
- Github Username: optimumtact
- Location: #CHATSHITGETBANGED
Re: Chemistry is a disease
also don't think I am not aware of issues with xeniobio, they just happen to be another thread
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