Enhanced Research Department

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evilkyle24
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:39 am
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Enhanced Research Department

Post by evilkyle24 » #503727

Summary:

This post suggests changes to be made to the rnd system and to robotics department to break up the monotony of rnd by separating tech trees and beef up robotics by adding more augmentations. Note: these are suggestions for possibilities. They can be tweaked or modified as seen fit, the main value of this suggestion is in the broad sense. Specific changes or augmentations are listed as examples.

Dissecting Monkeys doesn't teach you to build a better wrench

Right now the same pool of research points is used for all research subjects. While in theory this would cause science to have to make hard decisions when deciding what to research, in truth it just means they research the same thing every round: Advanced mining and engineering, before researching random shit if the round isn't over yet.

Therefore, I suggest we split the research trees into three categories: Engineering, Medical, and Data, each with their own pool of research points. The points still accumulate as normal but can only be spent in their category. Preferably, activities would be added that allow increased research points in each category, such as Toxins for Engineering, Dissections for Medical, and something else for Data. This would cause all departments to get some shiny new toys to be working with instead of just engineering for 90% of the round.

The problem of Robotics

Right now, Robotics mainly does two things: Creates cyborgs, and creates mechs. While the technology exists to augment crewmen, it is rarely if ever done for a variety of reasons. Contrasted with Goonstation, in which augmentation is commonplace. In my personal experience, the reasons that augmentations are rarely if ever performed on /tg/ are as follows:
  • Augmentations take a long time. It takes several minutes to augment a crewmember fully. In a game where 30 minutes is a reasonable timeframe for a traitor to have fucked the station into calling the shuttle, 5 minutes of boringly clicking tools in a certain order and standing still the entire time for a small benefit just isn't worth it.
  • Roundstart augmentations benefits are harshly offset by their drawbacks and the time it takes to perform the surgery.
  • Most augmentations are laughably unrobust.
  • Most augmentations are boring.
As such, I will suggest ways that augmentations can be improved by the addition of new, interesting augments. At the end of the day, more robust but fair equipment = more gimmicks, helping to keep things from being stale.

Paid by the Hour

Time is the biggest turnoff here, so lets address it.
  • The main time sink is research points.
  • The second timesink is surgery.
By the time augmentations are researched (If they're researched), mining has brought in so many resources the game is expressing them in scientific notation. This is mostly just because there's not too many ways to get more research points aside from the odd toxins god and dissecting humanified monkeys. However, a big part of it is the augmentations not being worth the points compared to things like bags of holding or enhanced part components.

Surgery is the other problem. It's slow. It's really, really fucking slow, and its boring. Surgery is the roboticist clicking on you with a set of tools in a specific order and standing around for ten seconds in between each click. Consider that full augmentation is dozens of steps and it becomes a real time sink. Surgery should be sped up, and/or tools should be added that allow it to be done faster and easier.

Infirmi Machinis

Going into a little more detail on the issues facing augmentations, we'll talk about the biggest problem with the augmentations: They aren't worth the effort.

/tg/code has only two tiers of cyborg limbs: Surplus, and Normal, with Surplus being directly inferior to standard limbs, and normal being arguably about equal considering their disadvantages. They provide you with some damage reduction, immunity to pressure damage, and immunity to cold damage (but not cold slowdown). In exchange, any EMP will absolutely rock your shit, hitting you for a long stun with serious damage.

Lets take stock of the useful augmentations and why they're good:
  • Stun reduction: Capping your stun at 4 seconds is incredible. Bombs and electrical shocks can lock you down for a while in environments you really need to be getting the hell away from. It won't really help you against a stun baton or a disabler, but it's still got some serious uses.
  • Never bleeding: Removes a source of damage that's hard to recover from and allows you to survive critical condition due to brute damage for a lot longer.
  • Immune to shocks: Insulated gloves are rare, and this works on literally any shock of any kind.
Yep, that's it. Short list.

Now the ones that aren't worth it:
  • HUD implants: Your department spawns with all the HUD's you'll ever need. You could argue that being able to wear two is useful, but lets be real, the situations in which this is necessary are fringe at best.
  • Using an oxygen tank without a mask: Literally every person on the entire station spawns with a mask, and you don't really have a reason to put anything else on your face slot aside from fashion.
  • Not needing to eat: The station is covered in vending machines and food spawns, even if the chef isn't doing his job.
  • Defibrillation: Sounds great, but defibs don't heal you. If it revives you, you'll still be in crit, and you'll die again. Defibs in medbay are rarely used for a reason. More useful if you have healing nanites, but nanites can defib you themselves, so its redundant.
  • Toolkits and surgical kits: All tools can be produced at an autolathe for cheap. Bag of holding with a toolbox and a backpack in it is faster, easier, and more versatile.
  • Jetpack: Pick up a paper bin or a carton of cigarettes. You have a jetpack now.
  • More efficient organs: These would be good if surgery was faster and they weren't gated behind end tier research.
The biggest pitfalls augmentations fall into are that they are some combination of taking a long time to acquire, not offering a big benefit, and not adding anything interesting. So let's propose some changes.

Prep the OR

The upgraded surgical tools should complete multiple steps at once without having to switch modes and be faster. With each surgical procedure unlocked, the speed of the steps should increase. Finally, at end tier medical research, you should be able to construct an autosurgion pod that, after being set to a specific procedure, will rapidly perform it once a person is placed inside of it and it is activated, similar to a public nanite chamber. This cuts down on the slow nature of surgery.

I definitely asked for this

Now on to the augs themselves. Make these things fun. Lets add some extra functionality to existing augs and some wacky but fun new augmentations to boot. After all, we can build big mecha and cyborgs, surely we can do some crazy shit with high tier research!

The following are examples given to get a point across. I don't honestly expect any of them to make it into the game in these forms due to the work it would require (I'd code it myself if I knew how). They are simply examples of how augmentations should add new abilities to people instead of just making them 'slightly better.'

Changes to existing augmentations:
  • Breathing Tube: Passively filters out airborne toxins like N2O and Plasma. Upgraded version works on viruses.
  • Defibrillation: Merge this with the cybernetic heart.
  • Surgical Kit: Performs surgical steps on its own without needing to manually switch between tools. As fast as the advanced surgery tools.
  • Jetpack: Can be overcharged to increase runspeed indoors. Has a lengthy cooldown.
  • Nutriment Pump: Also maintains a small level of nicotine. Plus version maintains a small dose of caffeine too.
  • Cyborg Limbs: Standard limbs allow the user to break cuffs or bolas quickly and deal increased punching damage. Can struggle out of a straight jacket and break windows with their bare hands. Advanced limbs are more durable, resistant to EMP, allow the user to shatter handcuffs or bolas immediately, increase movement speed, and allow the user to slowly pry open powered doors with their bare metal hands. Melee damage is increased, and they can damage reinforced windows with their hands. Their grabs are harder to escape from.
These buffs increase the value of the augmentations dramatically by adding utility options where you didn't have them before. For fun, I'll rattle off a bunch of random ideas to get your noggin joggin on the kinds of crazy "fun" the roboticist could get cooking up:
  • EMP Shielding: Reduces the damage and stun of EMP attacks. Stacks with advanced limbs.
  • Dermal Armor: Increases damage resistance. Decreases movement speed. Full armor with advanced limbs makes you just as fast as a normal person, though considerably tougher.
  • Internal Battery: Allows the user to store power inside of themselves to power advanced augmentations. Can also power handheld devices (Toggleable.) If the power cell is injected with plasma, it explodes when the user tries to draw from it.
  • Internal Reactor: Comes in four versions: Plasma, Uranium, Bluespace, and Supermatter. Implanted in the chest, the generator powers the internal battery and other powered augmentations. Each ascending version generates more power. However, if the user takes too much brute damage to the torso, the reactor's shielding is breached, and it releases deleterious effects. Plasma: The user is poisoned and possibly set on fire. Uranium: The user emits radiation. Bluespace: The user may randomly teleport. Supermatter: The user begins to delaminate, emitting anomalies and tesla bolts before exploding. The Supermatter reactor is a traitor item exclusive to roboticists.
  • Inline Tesla Array: Implanted in the arm, allows the user to project enemies with a variety of modes. By default, only Stun and Inducer are allowed. If Emagged, limiter is broken, and it can be cranked way up into the damaging or even lethal levels when used on harm intent. Powered by an internal battery, swappable by using a battery on your arm with help intent. You can set the percentage of the battery to use, though unless it's emagged the amount of energy is capped at a stunning level. Can draw from internal battery augmentation, but will prioritize its own battery. Plus version allows you to recharge both the implant and the internal battery augmentation by being electrocuted or by touching a live wire/apc, in the same way space ninjas do. Without nerve grounding, electrical shocks will still hurt you, and you have a chance to zap yourself when using it.
  • Synthetic Myofibers: Increased melee damage and reduced slowdown. Combined with advanced limbs, doors can be opened faster, and they can damage non-plasteel walls. Prying open a door on harm intent instead of grab/disarm will allow you to force bolted doors at your regular slow speed, or unbolted doors much more quickly, but breaks the door as if it had been emagged.
  • Nanoforge: Implanted in the chest, allows the user to use metal sheets on his chest with the help intent to refill it. Quickly fabricates nanites while it has metal. Does nothing if the host doesn't already have nanites. The plus version produces additional nanites regardless of resource status using bluespace technology. Requires power.
  • Internal Server: Prevents nanites from going rogue by constantly overwriting them with an internal cloud save set before implantation. Plus version allows the host to reprogram nanites on the fly. Requires power.
  • Nanosymbiotic Optimization: Requires end-tier nanites and cybernetics. Allows the user to unleash their inner Senator Armstrong. Nanite effects are enhanced and can be activated with HUD icons as if they were abilities. All nanite implants are enhanced. Nanite reserves are extended, and the user always knows how many nanites they have. Requires power.
  • Internal Chemreactor: Maintains low levels of basic healing chems in the user's system. Plus version provides better chemicals. If Emagged, can provide a burst of various stimulants on a cooldown. Requires power.
  • Heat Shield: Increases resistance to temperature changes. Plus version allows the user (and their gear) to survive being on fire with no negative effects. Has a temperature limit. Useful for Plasmen.
  • EMAGGED: Wildfire System: Allows the user to store flammable chemicals in an internal reservoir by drinking them, then release them smoke/foam around them. Listed chemicals are not added to the user's bloodstream, but stored in the reservoir. The user can use *vomit to purge the reservoir. The system automatically ignites the foam/cloud.
  • EMAGGED: Energy Projector: Allows the user to choose between an energy shield (The held kind), sword, or laser gun. Requires power. A lot of power.
If you're wondering how the traitors are supposed to get their augmentations into themselves, the answer is simple. Augmented people can perform self-surgery in the current code.

These are just some suggestions for augmentations, I doubt any will actually be included, but the point was to provide ideas to enhance the augmentation aspect of robotics in ways that add new abilities and dimensions to gameplay. A fully augmented superman with all of sciences medical tech jammed into him should be a horrifying abomination to deal with instead of just slightly irritating, after all.

I hope the broader ideas given resonate with the community. Thanks for reading.
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zxaber
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Re: Enhanced Research Department

Post by zxaber » #503763

The problem with augs is that I didn't sign up to work on other humans. I'm here to build and upgrade borgs and the occasional mech, and the last thing I want is to be interrupted because some sec dude just has to be robocop (again). I generally just hand would-be-augmentees their powergaming parts and tell them to go bug medical unless they're actually missing the limb they want replaced.
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terranaut
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Re: Enhanced Research Department

Post by terranaut » #503808

the reviver implant actually heals your damage.

generally speaking im in favor of things that make being augmentated more attractive, i very much enjoy transhumanism thematically.
on the flip side though you'll sometimes have roboticists refusing to give you fully augged limbs + other implants because that's him just standing next to you for 10-15 minutes doing the same thing over and over.
im aware this has been suggested and denied before but personally i think printable one-use autosurgeons that you can load with any aug, available at high tier tech and for a fair price in bluespace mesh would be a good thing because a) it cuts down on time required to get auged b) it lets bad guys snatch some augs they might not get from a surgeon
zxaber wrote:The problem with augs is that I didn't sign up to work on other humans. I'm here to build and upgrade borgs and the occasional mech, and the last thing I want is to be interrupted because some sec dude just has to be robocop (again). I generally just hand would-be-augmentees their powergaming parts and tell them to go bug medical unless they're actually missing the limb they want replaced.
that's like saying you signed up as chemist to make meth but you refuse to make healing meds.
its part of your job description, my dude. im sympathetic that you might not want to put 15 augs in a single guy so he can get assblasted by the first ling emp screeching him but if someone asks for antidrop and reviver you should consider indulging him.
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zxaber
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Re: Enhanced Research Department

Post by zxaber » #503821

One or two implants aren't really a big deal, yeah, and I'll do that. Like I said, if you're literally bleeding out of a stump, I'll replace that too. But the full set of limbs takes longer than I'd like to spend on one person that's not being borged, and I'm really not looking forward to having a line of people demanding augment surgery. I do have other things I could be doing.

I haven't played medical in a long while, but last time I did, I remember being absolutely bored to hell. So I don't feel any regret sending patients to medical with the parts they need.
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Shadowflame909
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Re: Enhanced Research Department

Post by Shadowflame909 » #503843

Augments currently suck because unlike a non-augmented person. It takes a very long time for a welder to heal you.

People don't always have time to waste being healed. Like miners fighting megafauna and such.
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CPTANT
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Re: Enhanced Research Department

Post by CPTANT » #503861

zxaber wrote:The problem with augs is that I didn't sign up to work on other humans. I'm here to build and upgrade borgs and the occasional mech, and the last thing I want is to be interrupted because some sec dude just has to be robocop (again). I generally just hand would-be-augmentees their powergaming parts and tell them to go bug medical unless they're actually missing the limb they want replaced.
It is also something the doctors DO sign up for and don't get to perform now.
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Anonmare
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Re: Enhanced Research Department

Post by Anonmare » #503871

Full body prosthetics you can pre-assemble and slot an MMI in when?
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evilkyle24
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Re: Enhanced Research Department

Post by evilkyle24 » #503910

Anonmare wrote:Full body prosthetics you can pre-assemble and slot an MMI in when?
Honestly having the choice when you build a cyborg between making it a cyborg or a full body prosthesis would be cool as fuck and negate about 99% of the time it takes to aug someone.
terranaut wrote:i very much enjoy transhumanism thematically. on the flip side though you'll sometimes have roboticists refusing to give you fully augged limbs + other implants because that's him just standing next to you for 10-15 minutes doing the same thing over and over.
Hence why I suggested that surgery be sped up, sped up again by better surgery research, and sped up again by the higher tier tools, then sped up even further if you have the autosurgeon implant.
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Yakumo_Chen
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Re: Enhanced Research Department

Post by Yakumo_Chen » #503911

Different types of research points is already in the base techwebs code, it's just not implemented
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evilkyle24
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Re: Enhanced Research Department

Post by evilkyle24 » #503912

Shadowflame909 wrote:Augments currently suck because unlike a non-augmented person. It takes a very long time for a welder to heal you.

People don't always have time to waste being healed. Like miners fighting megafauna and such.
So buff it or combo it with aug repair nanites. You get a pretty substantial damage resistance bonus.
Dr_bee
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Re: Enhanced Research Department

Post by Dr_bee » #503956

evilkyle24 wrote:
Shadowflame909 wrote:Augments currently suck because unlike a non-augmented person. It takes a very long time for a welder to heal you.

People don't always have time to waste being healed. Like miners fighting megafauna and such.
So buff it or combo it with aug repair nanites. You get a pretty substantial damage resistance bonus.
Aug repair nanites+ Armor nanites + fully buffed explorer suit makes you immune to conventional melee. The only thing that does damage is an e-sword and it does piddly damage.

Its a fun cheese to pull, and it takes like 45 minutes of prep, but its my favorite cheese.

That being said, augs are powerful, I get them all the time as an engineer just for the easy spacewalking.

I would love to see augs become more popular just so the counter gets used more often, I can count on one hand the amount of times Ive been EMPd while augged, and its almost always by accident.
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