Secborg replacement: Peacekeeper Borg [PR now up]

[Screemonster]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Seriously though make the illegal/emag module a nucleo-gravitational hyper-crystal that just does the same as a BoH-in-BoH

[TheWiznard]

Give it a gun that shoots..." Friendliness Pellets".

[Luke Cox]

Code is *mostly* done, once sprites are finished I should be able to get a PR up within a week or so (my schedule permitting).

In that case, we just need to wait for Daniel to finish up the egg sprites. If he's busy or we never hear back, we can always just use the hugbot sprites until somebody wants to finish the egg sprites (being chased down the hallway by autism incarnate will serve as excellent motivation). Thank you so much for taking the time to make this happen.

[Luke Cox]

(It's been 4 days, so I don't feel bad double posting)

Daniel seems to be MIA (last visit was on the 7th), so we should probably go ahead with his hugbot sprites for now. If the community doesn't care for them, they can finish the egg sprite themselves. Here you go, Drynwyn:

[Drynwyn]

Alright i'll see if I can get this wrapped up by next week.

UPDATE: OH SHIT MOMENT

The current borgs all have nifty transformation sequences. That means that the Peacekeeper needs one too, which means it needs sprites.

[Luke Cox]

Yeah, we'll need that too. For now though, I suggest using a static image of the standard borg as a placeholder. The most important thing in my opinion is getting a working version of this out and demonstrating that the peacekeeper is both viable and a good secborg replacement. If we can do that, I guarantee that a spriter will pick it up.

[Ricotez]

I don't like that peacekeeper sprite at all, it feels like it's from a completely different game. It does not fit in at all with the other cyborg sprites.

What's wrong with the original red one? If you want to emphasize that it is not a security cyborg, just make the red parts blue.

[Zilenan91]

Your weekly reminder this is still a terrible idea

[Luke Cox]

I don't like that peacekeeper sprite at all, it feels like it's from a completely different game. It does not fit in at all with the other cyborg sprites.

What's wrong with the original red one? If you want to emphasize that it is not a security cyborg, just make the red parts blue.

This is also an option if we're feeling supremely lazy. Actually, a hug-ified secborg might work well. Recolored secborg sprite might work well as a placeholder at least, and we can edit the colors in the transformation animation too. Whichever you guys prefer.

Your weekly reminder this is still a terrible idea

Daily reminder that you are the same person who thought that newcult was a good idea

[Zilenan91]

At its core, it was a good idea, yes. But TK fucked off and never supported it so it had tons of problems that were never solved.

[Luke Cox]

How does a pink secborg sprite sound?

[PKPenguin321]

this still sucks

drynwyn why are you enabling him

[Luke Cox]

Because most people disagree with you

Edit: Or at the very least, the vast majority of people are at least interested in testing this in some capacity. You're in the minority here.

[PKPenguin321]

Because most people disagree with you

Edit: Or at the very least, the vast majority of people are at least interested in testing this in some capacity. You're in the minority here.

no poll no proof lad ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

that aside, a "majority" can be wrong, especially when it's not really a majority and just really vocal and really salty ex-secborg players

[Luke Cox]

Then let's get a working version of this, test it, and see how it turns out. If it's utter, unfixable garbage, I'll concede defeat. However, I and a lot of other people really want to see some kind of secborg replacement, and we've very close to having a working version.

[PKPenguin321]

Then let's get a working version of this, test it, and see how it turns out. If it's utter, unfixable garbage, I'll concede defeat. However, I and a lot of other people really want to see some kind of secborg replacement, and we've very close to having a working version.

A lot of people also wanted sec borgs the fuck out of the game, and after months of shitflining with whiny siliconfags we finally got it and the game became significantly better. In what way do you think undoing that to any degree is a good idea? Our "test" was secborgs, and secborgs are shit.

>b-but more passive borg! its blue this time!!
Doesn't make it any better in my eyes

[Luke Cox]

I have gone to great pains to make sure that it is physically impossible for this borg to act as a secborg in even the loosest capacity. It can't restrain, it can't detain, it can't stun, it has no sec hud, etc. Your argument boils down to "half the playerbase didn't like secborgs so we should never try anything related to borgs that prevent harm ever." You and Zil are literally the only outspoken opponents of this. If you don't like it, fine, but stop acting like you represent some significant portion of the playerbase when you are part of a tiny minority.

[Scott]

I have to agree with that fag cunt borg hater pkpenguin, it's pointless to add a neutered version of the secborg, if it doesn't fill the niche it has no reason to exist. And if it does fill the niche, just bring back secborg, it already exists.

edit: also this looks stupid

[Incomptinence]

Show Zile and Penquin equivalent respect and just ignore them.

[InsaneHyena]

Secborgs were cancer, and any attempt to fill their niche ("but not really, guys!") is cancer by default.

[Luke Cox]

Secborgs were cancer, and any attempt to fill their niche ("but not really, guys!") is cancer by default.

10/10 logic

I have to agree with that fag cunt borg hater pkpenguin, it's pointless to add a neutered version of the secborg, if it doesn't fill the niche it has no reason to exist. And if it does fill the niche, just bring back secborg, it already exists.

edit: also this looks stupid

That's the issue though, there is a niche to be filled. Secborgs were originally supposed to be a means for the AI to stop humans from harming the shit out of each other, aside from bolting doors and yelling at sec. This is different in that instead of being geared towards neutralizing the attacker, it's geared towards helping the victim flee. As I said, no stuns, no restraints, etc. Secborg utterly failed at the task it was meant to accomplish, this is meant to be a fresh take on it. At worst, I can see this being service borg tier. I thought this through, I am absolutely certain that they will never be secborg cancer.

[Scott]

No that's absolutely retarded. Secborg had the basic non harmful security equipment, if players not following their laws has nothing to do with the tools.

Stop tempting me to shitpost, mrperson will ban me.

[Drynwyn]

this still sucks

drynwyn why are you enabling him

because i need practice coding and this is something that deals with things I haven't had occasion to learn in the past

[Topham]

Fuck the drama I just want my egg okay

[dionysus24779]

I hate saying this because it's mean and sounds like a personal attack, but you should really just ignore PKPenguin321 since he will always be negative and hateful about everything borg related and will always find something to complain about. (and this is a general observation not just based on this singular thread...) (this will probably be removed anyway...)

The peacekeeper borg as a replacement is a good idea. Personally I never thought there was anything wrong with the secborg to begin with, but hey... we can't have nice things.

If people are willing to put in the effort to come up with ideas, someone even volunteered to code it all and we already have an idea for sprites and everything... then there's really no reason not to at least just test it.

[Smeller]

Secborgs were like a fucking APC, sec called 'em when they've expected stuns, stings, whatever that isn't bullets. Sec is pretty much powerful right now.
They were cancer actually, as they would arrest me for crimes, not harm, so meh

[DemonFiren]

They were A, sure, but they didn't C much P.

[Scott]

I hate saying this because it's mean and sounds like a personal attack, but you should really just ignore PKPenguin321 since he will always be negative and hateful about everything borg related and will always find something to complain about. (and this is a general observation not just based on this singular thread...) (this will probably be removed anyway...)

The peacekeeper borg as a replacement is a good idea. Personally I never thought there was anything wrong with the secborg to begin with, but hey... we can't have nice things.

If people are willing to put in the effort to come up with ideas, someone even volunteered to code it all and we already have an idea for sprites and everything... then there's really no reason not to at least just test it.

It's not a good idea because it will inevitably cause anger and frustration. This is a cyborg module designed to grief, it's better at pissing people off than the secborg.

And of course, this will result in even more silicon policy.

Absolutely awful and I do hope Kor shuts it down. It's worse than removing the secborg.

edit: did I mention the sprite is awful?

[Malkevin]

Secborgs were like a fucking APC, sec called 'em when they've expected stuns, stings, whatever that isn't bullets. Sec is pretty much powerful right now.
They were cancer actually, as they would arrest me for crimes, not harm, so meh

I know right.

And damn those engi borgs for repairing busted internal windows and damn those mediborgs for treating non life threatening injuries, right?

[Luke Cox]

I hate saying this because it's mean and sounds like a personal attack, but you should really just ignore PKPenguin321 since he will always be negative and hateful about everything borg related and will always find something to complain about. (and this is a general observation not just based on this singular thread...) (this will probably be removed anyway...)

The peacekeeper borg as a replacement is a good idea. Personally I never thought there was anything wrong with the secborg to begin with, but hey... we can't have nice things.

If people are willing to put in the effort to come up with ideas, someone even volunteered to code it all and we already have an idea for sprites and everything... then there's really no reason not to at least just test it.

It's not a good idea because it will inevitably cause anger and frustration. This is a cyborg module designed to grief, it's better at pissing people off than the secborg.

And of course, this will result in even more silicon policy.

Absolutely awful and I do hope Kor shuts it down. It's worse than removing the secborg.

edit: did I mention the sprite is awful?

Every other borg module in the game has more grief potential than this. The worst this can do is flash you, and it physically cannot restrain, stun, or harm you. I know that thinking for yourself and adapting to changes can be frightening and challenging, but stick with me and we'll get through this together.

1. Obtain a flash
OPTIONAL: Wear eye protection to prevent counter-flashing
2. Wait for the griefing peacekeeper to approach you, which it will have to if it wants to do anything
3. Apply flash to borg
4. Beat borg to death with your blunt object of choice

Secborgs were like a fucking APC, sec called 'em when they've expected stuns, stings, whatever that isn't bullets. Sec is pretty much powerful right now.
They were cancer actually, as they would arrest me for crimes, not harm, so meh

I know right.

And damn those engi borgs for repairing busted internal windows and damn those mediborgs for treating non life threatening injuries, right?

I agree that secborgs were mostly a policy issue, but the admins showed that they give zero fucks about enforcing silicon policy. A mechanical solution is necessary.

[Redblaze3000]

Your weekly reminder this is still a terrible idea

Fuck off shitter.

[Scott]

I hate saying this because it's mean and sounds like a personal attack, but you should really just ignore PKPenguin321 since he will always be negative and hateful about everything borg related and will always find something to complain about. (and this is a general observation not just based on this singular thread...) (this will probably be removed anyway...)

The peacekeeper borg as a replacement is a good idea. Personally I never thought there was anything wrong with the secborg to begin with, but hey... we can't have nice things.

If people are willing to put in the effort to come up with ideas, someone even volunteered to code it all and we already have an idea for sprites and everything... then there's really no reason not to at least just test it.

It's not a good idea because it will inevitably cause anger and frustration. This is a cyborg module designed to grief, it's better at pissing people off than the secborg.

And of course, this will result in even more silicon policy.

Absolutely awful and I do hope Kor shuts it down. It's worse than removing the secborg.

edit: did I mention the sprite is awful?

Every other borg module in the game has more grief potential than this. The worst this can do is flash you, and it physically cannot restrain, stun, or harm you. I know that thinking for yourself and adapting to changes can be frightening and challenging, but stick with me and we'll get through this together.

1. Obtain a flash
OPTIONAL: Wear eye protection to prevent counter-flashing
2. Wait for the griefing peacekeeper to approach you, which it will have to if it wants to do anything
3. Apply flash to borg
4. Beat borg to death with your blunt object of choice

Secborgs were like a fucking APC, sec called 'em when they've expected stuns, stings, whatever that isn't bullets. Sec is pretty much powerful right now.
They were cancer actually, as they would arrest me for crimes, not harm, so meh

I know right.

And damn those engi borgs for repairing busted internal windows and damn those mediborgs for treating non life threatening injuries, right?

I agree that secborgs were mostly a policy issue, but the admins showed that they give zero fucks about enforcing silicon policy. A mechanical solution is necessary.

Please explain how a useless cyborg is a good idea.

[Luke Cox]

Because while this borg is total shit at direct controntation, it can slow down an attacker just long enough for the victim to run away.

Also, explain why service borg is still in the game

[Scott]

Service borg fills a niche, efficiently. This fat borg you made in your own image does not, it's just a griefing tool.

[ThanatosRa]

DOES THE EGG HAVE A VIBRATE FUNCTION! ROBOTICS NEEDS TO KNOW! FOR RESEARCH!

[Topham]

So, secborg has been removed because it became a venue for validhunting shits to valid because they fucking could. It was a controversial removal, but one that overall worked out pretty well because it discouraged silicons overall to valid and instead to do their job along their laws as closely as possible.

Now, here we have an idea that is meant to expand the silicons' abilities to do their job and follow their laws while actively discouraging validhunting however possible, through policy, design, and even goddamn sprites. Will validhunting shits still try to take advantage of this? Yes. It's inevitable. They will use anything possible to do so, but those are hopefully a very small minority. The important consideration is this:

Will this addition improve the game in some way?

As far as I see it, there are two main logical sides to the argument that I will try my best to sum up as fairly as I can.

1. Expanding the capabilities of silicons is very well in-line with the universe, considering the whole premise of a space station with a functional AI and cyborgs and what not. This expansion should be a welcome addition to the arsenals of the silicons to better complete their job and should therefore improve the game because it grows and refines a very central game mechanic: silicons.
2. The peacekeeper borg is a new outlet for validhunting shits to do their validhunting shit. Validhunting has a primarily negative impact on the game experience and community as a whole, and should be actively discouraged through disallowing any new venues for validhunting.

Ultimately, both of the two arguments are based very largely on one or two major assumptions, but fortunately for us all of these assumptions are entirely testable, as long as we approach it well.

I think that the Peacekeeper Borg is a big deal because it fills a niche, the size and importance of which is largely debated in our playerbase. Since silicons are so central to the game culture, environment, and community, this is something we need to pay attention to. If we want to resolve this issue maturely, we have to wholeheartedly put effort into creating a reasonably balanced borg with mechanical and design-based discouragements from validhunting and then test this borg to see how the community reacts. This is why I support the egg the best, as it is very far separated from any notion of validhunting and will ultimately shrink the niche of the secborg itself while filling it without validhunting capabilities. Also, the egg is fucking adorable.

If the game environment is largely improved upon testing the borg then good job us, we have a love egg now. If the game environment seems to be worsened because of the borg then good job, we have more evidence to support the idea that the niche of the secborg might have little to no reason to be filled.

tl;dr: My main point is that a lot of the arguing in this thread is very hypothetical and not very grounded or supported by facts, instead supported by "VALIDS PLS GO" and "LOVE EGG PLS". If we want to settle this like the adults we're supposed to be, we should fully develop and test the borg to its greatest capacity, and work from there. Additionally, after we test it, we would have a very solid basis for the fucking giant argument present throughout the community about silicons and validhunting.

[Scott]

Or you can re enable secborg since it is already capable of doing the job of preventing harm and doesn't look ridiculous.

[Topham]

I'm a big meanieface who doesn't want a kawaii-desu love egg nyaa

ftfy

Also, why not put in the effort for change? Change might not always be good, but being open for change is, I would say.

[Luke Cox]

Well said, Topham. I don't doubt that the borg will need some tuning before it's just right, but saying that we shouldn't even attempt to balance it because "muh AI validhunting" is retarded. Let's get a working version of this and go from there.

Also, while I agree that the egg is adorable, it probably isn't going to happen right away unless somebody wants to finish spriting it. I'm going to make a recolored sec borg as a placeholder using the Hugbox in perma as a color palette until we can get something more polished. Has anybody got the secborg spritesheet?

[ThanatosRa]

I'm a big meanieface who doesn't want a kawaii-desu love egg nyaa

ftfy

Also, why not put in the effort for change? Change might not always be good, but being open for change is, I would say.

Why doesn't it vibrate?

[Topham]

Why doesn't it vibrate?

Now that I've finally figured out more or less how github and all that business works, maybe I can work on coding in a *vibrate emote for borgs. Hell, don't slimes vibrate?

[Drynwyn]

Coding a vibrate emote for borgs that didn't have an associated animation would be the work of a minute.
Also I don't like the blue hugbot sprites, somebody make egg sprites for me k?

[Cobby]

1. Obtain a flash
OPTIONAL: Wear eye protection to prevent counter-flashing
2. Wait for the griefing peacekeeper to approach you, which it will have to if it wants to do anything
3. Apply flash to borg
4. Beat borg to death with your blunt object of choice

I like the eggborg and all but this is the exact same for the standard borg.

If the eggborg gets put in then the standard borg shouldn't have a hardstun since it is the jack of all trades but a master of none [which in this case would be stunning]

[Luke Cox]

Coding a vibrate emote for borgs that didn't have an associated animation would be the work of a minute.
Also I don't like the blue hugbot sprites, somebody make egg sprites for me k?

I'll make you a set of recolored secborg sprites that we can use until somebody can be assed to make the egg sprites. Anybody got the spritesheet?

[PKPenguin321]

I have gone to great pains to make sure that it is physically impossible for this borg to act as a secborg in even the loosest capacity. It can't restrain, it can't detain, it can't stun, it has no sec hud, etc.

Then what's even the point? You clearly haven't thought this idea through.

but stop acting like you represent some significant portion of the playerbase when you are part of a tiny minority.

Speak for yourself, lad.

[Super Aggro Crag]

love dis idea tbh

[Topham]

but stop acting like you represent some significant portion of the playerbase when you are part of a tiny minority.

Speak for yourself, lad.

PK, I respect you and your opinions but I feel like you may be representing a minority here in your passionate opposition to the peacekeeper. Plenty of people seem not to give a damn, and there are a few people who honestly want it to happen. Even if there were more people that hated this idea, I still feel like it'd be a worthwhile experiment that would, as stated before, give us something to work with as far as the validhunting silicon argument. You're free to believe what you like - hell, I'm pro-egg but I don't know what this would mean for the game - but I firmly believe that good will come out of at least giving this shit a try.
And Luke, don't feel like you represent a majority either. You're too pro-peacekeeper to do so. But I am with you in that we should give this a try.

1. Obtain a flash
OPTIONAL: Wear eye protection to prevent counter-flashing
2. Wait for the griefing peacekeeper to approach you, which it will have to if it wants to do anything
3. Apply flash to borg
4. Beat borg to death with your blunt object of choice

I like the eggborg and all but this is the exact same for the standard borg.

If the eggborg gets put in then the standard borg shouldn't have a hardstun since it is the jack of all trades but a master of none [which in this case would be stunning]

I'm not yet sure whether or not the standard borg should keep its hardstun but we have to realize that because of the secborg's disappearance, anyone whose validhunting dick is hard enough is going to go for the standard borg module to satisfy that urge anyway. I think that the standard borg module should be purposefully made obsolete by the other borgs, as it was before secborg was removed. The eggborg would once again make the standard borg obsolete, which is where it probably should be with the whole "jack of all trades master of none" thing.
Besides, even now standard borg is shit, it's literally only useful for validhunting.

[Luke Cox]

If this does go through, I would like to see a rework of the standard borg module

[Scott]

I'm a big meanieface who doesn't want a kawaii-desu love egg nyaa

memes

Fixed that for you.

I have changed many things in this branch of SS13 and I've embraced good changes, but this is just a shitty idea.

[DemonFiren]

Embrace the good change of removing yourself from this thread, then, because this idea is fucking awesome.

[Scott]

No it isn't.