The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

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Change Medical? If so, to what?

Medical is fine, do not change
7
5%
Medical is fine, do not change
7
5%
Medical is fine, do not change
7
5%
Baymed Derivative - http://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic. ... t=50#p2784
24
19%
Baymed Derivative - http://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic. ... t=50#p2784
24
19%
Baymed Derivative - http://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic. ... t=50#p2784
24
19%
The Steelpoint Solution - http://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic. ... t=114#p889
7
5%
The Steelpoint Solution - http://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic. ... t=114#p889
7
5%
The Steelpoint Solution - http://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic. ... t=114#p889
7
5%
Neither, but Medical is bad and should be changed.
5
4%
Neither, but Medical is bad and should be changed.
5
4%
Neither, but Medical is bad and should be changed.
5
4%
 
Total votes : 129

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The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

Postby Psyentific » Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:01 am #887

How many times has exactly this thread been made?

The short of it is that Baymed makes fighting a lot more deadly, dangerous things a lot more dangerous, and a competent medbay staff a lot more important. You will die more often, health is harder to replenish, and serious injuries are serious.

Being hurt can no longer be quickly fixed, and being seriously wounded will necessitate at least some time in Medbay, often surgery. Health is less of a temporary pool (bruisepack) and more of a resource to be rationed and conserved. You need to be smarter or you're going to be deader. Bones can be broken for various effects (The clown cannot honk...), lungs can be punctured (Coughing blood!), Legs and Feet can be broken to slow you down. Limbs can be removed, and there are about twice as many locations to be hurt in. Getting in a fight, especially one with proper weaponry (>10 Brute/hit), especially a prolonged one, will fuck you up. Projectile Weapons, like a non-beanbag Shotgun or a C-20r will suplex you, due to the initial hit and the follow-up damage from the bullet being stuck in the wound.

Baymed turns Medbay from "Slap a bruisepack on it" to a system that's comparable in depth to Science or Engineering, and a department whose absence will be felt by the entire station.

I'm not asking for a direct port of Vanilla Baymed - Pain and its associated spam are really annoying. But, having spent the last two months either not playing, or playing on a Baycode derivative, I can say that Baymed is one of the biggest things I miss (Alongside Table-flipping, the Give command, and holodamage tasers). If a coder winds up reading this, I'd recommend getting in contact with /vg/ - Their med is a nice hybrid of TG and Bay, retaining "Health" (instead of "Pain") but adding all the good bits.

Medical right now is absymal - It's Sleepers, Cryo, Cloner, and Chem. That's it - Nothing more that makes it unique, and nothing special about it. No in-depth systems behind it, no specialized knowledge to learn or bring into play. There's very little gap between a Good CMO and a Bad CMO, compared to a huge gap between a Good HoS and a Shit HoS, or a Good CE and a Bad CE. The most complicated thing that most people do is removing an appendix or performing a (forced) sexchange - Even then, thanks to ghetto surgery, the only thing seperating a Medical Doctor from an Assistant is white clothing and a guaranteed first aid kit.
You could move Cryo, Cloning, and the Sleepers to the dorms, sprinkle a few more first aid kits around then move Chem to R&D, and now Medbay, as a department, as a quadrant of the station, would have no reason to exist.

Fix this shit.
Last edited by Psyentific on Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:53 pm, edited 14 times in total.
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Re: The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

Postby Steelpoint » Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:06 am #889

Here's my older idea on how to improve our Medical System.

Spoiler:
I find it disappointing that an entire job, and essentially a good chunk of a station department. Is obsoleted by but a single Bot that can be made in 30 seconds and in vast quantities...

The equivalent would be the Singularity being automatically turned on and activated at round start, where the computer process all Cargo orders. Research is done automatically by a droid getting and deconing items, or Security Bots handling all Security issues to a greater degree than Beepsky.

The point is, there is no reason to invalidate an entire job, and department to a good extent at all. I wish to put forward two seperate proposals to try and give MD's and Medical some more relevance to the station again.

Unfortunately, before I begin, the main problem with adding to Medical is that, as due to TG's playstyle, it can "inconvenience" people who got a boo boo. Also people have different attitudes to healing, some want more in depth while others detest healing that is more complex than a Bruise Pack or Ointment healing Deep Puncture wounds or 3rd Degree Burns.

------------------------------------------------------------------------


PROPOSAL 1 (AKA: THE SIMPLE BAD IDEA)
Remove Medibots, or change it so that the bot only injects Innaprovaline. It will keep you alive and stable but it won't heal you.

------------------------------------------------------------------------


PROPOSAL 2 (AKA: THE MORE THOUGHT OUT, BUT STILL BAD, IDEA)
As a note this idea is more of a thing I want to test the waters with, I do want to draw attention to the bad state Medical is in of course.

Bear with me. This will be long.

Have Burn/Brute damage be divided between two separate damage states, Damage (Red) and Serious Damage (Black). Red Damage is healed as it is currently where you apply a bruisepack/ointment to the wounded area and it will heal it over time (Healing time should not be very long). Medibots still heal Normal Damage.

Black Serious Damage however cannot be healed with First Aid Kit items and must be treated in the Medbay to heal, Serious Damage represents damage that extends beyond the exterior of the body and goes deep within. To heal a Serious Wound requires you to go through several steps.

1. Put patient into a Sleeper Pod, from here you scan the patient to determine the extent of the Serious Damage, this will also note any wounds that require surgery which I will explain later.
2. Eject the patient from the pod, the pod will print out a special syringe that is designed to target the detected wounds from this patient only.
3. Go to a deep injection charging terminal and insert your syringe, fill it up with the needed chemical for the wounds you plan to treat, this may require multiple trips.
4. Inject the syringe into the target areas, 5 units injected will start the healing process. At this point the wounds will slowly start to heal up to 50 hp worth of health.
4(b) You can insert a patient into a cryo cell at this stage to accelerate this healing process.
Congratulations, your patient is fully healed.

BUT WAIT, OR IF THIS IS TO COMPLEX

1. Put the patient into a Sleeper Pod.
2. Set the pod to "Deep Healing"
3. Wait for patient to fully heal
Congrats!

Also note that you can just throw a patient with Serious Damage into a cryo cell to heal as normal as an alternative, however this will take a long time and so should only be used if you either have too many patients to treat.

---------------------------------

A few things to consider however, when a limb area has suffered 20 hp worth of Serious Damage there is a chance (60% or so) that a critical wound will occur, a critical wound requires surgery to fix. Until fixed a critical wound will have the following effects.

a. A permanent 10 hp of damage will be afflicted to the target limb.
b. Every minute the wound will cause 5 hp worth of damage to the target limb.
c. The target limb will not be functional.
Head - Patient suffers trauma, will often be unable to move or interact for several seconds at random intervals.
Eyes - Patient suffers severe blindness or slips in and out of sight.
Chest - Patient suffers from constant oxygen loss at a slow rate.
Arms - Unable to use the affected arms for anything.
Legs - If one leg is in critical the patient moves at half speed, if both are in critical the player moves at walking speed. Patient takes small damage everytime they move if both legs are damaged.

In order to fix this wound you have to preform surgery on the patient.

However there are two ways to temporarily alleviate the symptoms
1. Inject an Stimulant Pen into the target area, a unique item in Medical Storage, this will remove the critical affect for about 1 to 2 minutes. Stimulant Pens are rare and only 6 spawn on station, enough for each MD and the CMO. The pen has three uses.
2. Support the critical wound, so bandaging the wounded limb will alleviate to an extent. Bandaging can use clothes. Bandages will stop the effect of the wound (You can use your hands now) but you will continue to suffer the other effects of the critical wound.

---------------------------------

For every attack rendered to a player there is a chance a certain cap amount (50%) will cause Serious Damage instead of normal Damage. So if you are hit by a Laser Gun you will suffer between 1 to 10 points of Serious Damage. Certain weapons however can increase or decrease the chances of Serious Damage occuring. A knife would have a 75% chance for Serious Damge for example, or a Screwdriver to the eyes would also have a 75%. However a Stun Baton would only have a 25% of Serious Damage.

---------------------------------

Finally certain Antags should be exempt from this system, to not significantly punish them. The following antags should have an immunity of sorts.

Nuke Ops - Their Armor should provide protection from Serious Damage.
Traitors - They can chose to buy a special "Stimulant Pen" that will, when injected, heal all Critical Wounds and Serious Wounds.
Wizard/Space Ninja - They would be immune as they will not have an opportunity to heal Critical or Serious Wounds.
Lings - A power that can directly remove Critical Wounds, also their regeneration process will remove all wounds.

---------------------------------

Just my suggestion, thanks for reading if you got this far.


I agree that medical should be made a bit more relevant.
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Re: The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

Postby Incoming » Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:25 am #892

I will say what I've said before.

Baymed makes antag play nearly impossible in a server like this because the second you have an injury that REQUIRES someone else to help you fix your game is over. You can't get treatment if you're going loud, you're left to die a slow death because Petey McGreytide managed to wack you once with a toolbox after you drew your esword.

There's just no going back, and if you modded it so there were still options that WOULD allow for single user fixes to these problems everyone would just always use them, because the last thing anyone wants to do on tgstation is trust their fellow spessman.

edit:
I mean we're talking about a player base that will actively resist anyone trying to use the sleeper and call murder on anyone who suggests using cryo while they aren't in crit.
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Re: The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

Postby Psyentific » Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:25 am #897

Incoming wrote:I will say what I've said before.

Baymed makes antag play nearly impossible in a server like this because the second you have an injury that REQUIRES someone else to help you fix your game is over. You can't get treatment if you're going loud, you're left to die a slow death because Petey McGreytide managed to wack you once with a toolbox after you drew your esword.

There's just no going back, and if you modded it so there were still options that WOULD allow for single user fixes to these problems everyone would just always use them, because the last thing anyone wants to do on tgstation is trust their fellow spessman.

edit:
I mean we're talking about a player base that will actively resist anyone trying to use the sleeper and call murder on anyone who suggests using cryo while they aren't in crit.


Actually, that just makes "Loud" antag play that much harder. I've seen plenty of high-body-count murderboners on bay-derived servers. Instead of trying to not get hit by instant-stun tasers (Holodamage!), you're trying to not get hit at all, and there's plenty of tools and skill to do that. Entering a weapon-fight is no longer something that can be done lightly and without consequence, which I think is a Good Thing.

And personally? I think that "Loud" antag play ought to be discouraged. E-Sword E-Bow E-Mag murderboning is plebian. Uncreative. Done before, done again, and done to death. The mark and signature of a low-effort pubbie. Likewise with Parapen/C4. There's so much more you can do with 10 TCs, with a mastery of your aspect of the game, with a free pass to griff, with creativity and flair - Indiscriminate murder is a waste.
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Re: The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

Postby Numbers » Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:47 am #902

There is a fair bit of stuff in new chemistry that will make healing harder (OD). Toned down baymed could be a nice addition (With config values to adjust 'severity' of the injuries). The thing is - each time we tried to port baymed or dismemberment, it ended up being a runtime fuckfest.
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Re: The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

Postby Psyentific » Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:13 am #907

Runtimes: Isn't that just a problem with buggy code, though? Can't that be fixed? I mean, if Baymed calls bay-specific functions & values, can't you port those too?

Values/Severity: I agree, actually. Full-on baymed is hilariously lethal, which is why I suggested /vg/ or a similar toned-down version. I'd like SS13 to be more lethal, being in harms way to have more consequences, and getting fucked up to actually fuck someone up - Not permanently, but certainly significantly. I don't want to spend 20m in surgery because I accidently toolboxed myself and all the bones in my arm shattered, nor do I want to need a new leg because I fucked up a doorhack and the shock liquified my leg. That's not fun, it's autistic realism. It's shit.

Mostly, I want to see in-depth Medical, dismemberment & robot limbs, and more uses (and needs) for surgery. Generally, healing that can't be rendered completely obsolete by a Medibot, treatment that needs more than a sleeper pop or a cryo dunk, and Medical Doctors not being giggling fucktoy nurses and/or assistants in white. Surgery is a big part of this - As it stands, it's moderately complex with ghetto equivalents, but nobody uses it outside of specific niches. Implant removal, facehugger removal, debraining - That's it. Even the addition of broken bones and fractures and their accompanying surgical (not! chemical) fixes would go some way towards satisfying me, and that's not even touching things like organ damage, internal bleeding and item implanting.

Even Cargo & Mining, perpetually neglected in code, has gotten more love than Medical - it's one of the shallowest, easiest, and least complex departments on the station in a game whose main selling point is depth and complexity. It all boils down to slapping a bruise pack on it. Baymed is an already-existing, already-proven system implemented across almost every server I care to name - It is both standard and the standard. Its absence (Or the absence of a similarly in-depth medical system) is one of the most glaring, jarring flaws with TG code and its derivatives.

If I could change exactly one thing about TGCode, I would port baymed.
Last edited by Psyentific on Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:09 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

Postby Numbers » Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:57 am #914

The issue of runtimes is basically an issue of shitty porting. And yes we could do that with a good port.
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Re: The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

Postby Wild Bill » Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:36 am #1075

Incoming wrote:[...] Baymed makes antag play nearly impossible in a server like this [...]

Our (/vg/) version works decently well, and we're not exactly enforced-RP central.
But a trip to Medbay does become... a little more interesting.

Psyentific wrote:[...] Holodamage! [...]

Screw this. It's annoying and pointless for everyone other than Bay.

Psyentific wrote:[...] Runtimes: Isn't that just a problem with buggy code, though? Can't that be fixed? I mean, if Baymed calls bay-specific functions & values, can't you port those too? [...]

Yeah like Numbers said, with some effort anything can be ported properly.

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Re: The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

Postby MisterPerson » Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:55 am #1096

Medbay's Wild Ride: The Suggestion.

Basically, Medbay sucks when you make it complicated. And if it's also necessary, then you basically get shafted.
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Re: The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

Postby Lo6a4evskiy » Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:02 pm #1110

Can you please stop creating these threads?

Go to bay or /vg/ since apparently it works super good and all and I don't even know why people from there come into these threads and tell everyone about it, but sure, it totally works amazingly, so go there.

Otherwise you can just think about how this increases wait-and-do-nothing times, increases annoyance not only from murderboners, but also from something very common like HoP's line fights, benefits virtually nobody, except may be it gives you a gigantic boner, but that's hardly a reason to implement it.
Psyentific wrote:I'm not asking for a direct port of Vanilla Baymed - Pain and its associated spam are really annoying. But, having spent the last two months either not playing, or playing on a Baycode derivative

Yeah, that's good, keep doing that.

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Re: The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

Postby AseaHeru » Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:31 pm #1115

As a suggestion, if you do port baymed replace the health thing (pain) with an actual pain meter and a general health one.
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Re: The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

Postby Psyentific » Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:50 pm #1121

E: Politics and irrelevant opinions deleted.
Otherwise you can just think about how this increases wait-and-do-nothing times, increases annoyance not only from murderboners, but also from something very common like HoP's line fights, benefits virtually nobody, except may be it gives you a gigantic boner, but that's hardly a reason to implement it.

I wish I could say that it irks me when people shrug off being hit with a circular saw, but really? It doesn't.

From a purely mechanical standpoint, the medical system in TGCode and NTS13 code is complete shit.

Look at Engineering - Electrical power is a complex system with multiple potential sources and requires at least some degree of specific knowledge - Even setting up the engine, while completely rote, is somewhat complicated.
Look at Atmos - Optimized plasma floods with multiple parallel volume pumps and equal parts O2/Plasma. Re-routing disposals into the captains office or space by flipping a couple pipes around. Setting up an automatic shard cannon and assistant-shredder
Look at Security - Finding out whodunnit, finding them, catching them, brigging them for the right time. Knowing when to brig and when to not care, knowing when to have a soft hand and when to beat the shit out of someone.
Look at Virology - Entirely possible to spend an entire round perfecting your immortality vaccine, only to get lynched because someone sneezed.
Look at R&D - There's all sorts of sequences and lists and methods to maxing out the research levels.
Look at Xenobiology - All the myriad slimes you can have, each one having not one but two effects per slimecore. Xenobio is completely self-sufficient!
Look at Toxins - There's a huge difference between Babby's First Bomb and the 10/20/40s I've seen. Temperatures, pressures, gas ratios, bomb placement...

Now, look at Medical.
If he's dead, clone him. If he's in crit, cryo. Otherwise, Sleeper & mash all the buttons except soporific.

Do you see what I'm trying to say here? Medbay is childishly simple - As it stands now, with everyone able to heal themselves of everything? You might as well move the cloner and cryo to the dorms, move Genetics and Virology to Science, scatter some more first aid kits around the station, then remove the entire department. There's absolutely no point to Medical Doctor - They require no specialized knowledge and their designated role can be fufilled by an unrobust assistant. A lot of roleplayers tend to orbit Medbay because there's nothing else to do there.

The reason that I'm putting baymed forward (And probably the same reason as everyone else over the [timespan]) is because Baymed is an already-existing, proven, portable, tweakable system that is comparable in depth and scope to the rest of the departments in the game. There's no brainstorming required, there's a lot less balancing needed; there's nothing that needs to be done that isn't Port and Tweak. Get it In and then gather feedback. If you're kneejerking against it just because of autistic baylords, you're doing yourself and the rest of the playerbase a great disservice.
Last edited by Psyentific on Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:35 pm, edited 7 times in total.

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Re: The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

Postby AseaHeru » Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:58 pm #1123

What about Urist? Thats on the hub.
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Re: The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

Postby Psyentific » Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:58 pm #1124

Whoops. Edited in.

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Re: The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

Postby AseaHeru » Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:01 pm #1127

Thank you.

BTW, its not /VG/, its bay with /TG/ things added in.
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Re: The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

Postby Numbers » Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:10 pm #1128

1) Stop being so worked up and political

2)Time to shoot down your arguments one by one
Look at Engineering - Electrical power is a complex system with multiple potential sources and requires at least some degree of specific knowledge - Even setting up the engine, while completely rote, is somewhat complicated.


While powernets code makes experience coders cry. We have two power sources that don't require maintenance that much. There's also the third I added which is rather incomplete and I may finish it up when I have some time.

Look at Atmos - Optimized plasma floods with multiple parallel volume pumps and equal parts O2/Plasma. Re-routing disposals into the captains office or space by flipping a couple pipes around. Setting up an automatic shard cannon and assistant-shredder


Part of my work but still not enough stuff is put in. It needs something for Atmos to do with gasses like the flow reactors I've coded. Atmos otherwise is a boring job that you only join for the fireaxe.

Look at Security - Finding out whodunnit, finding them, catching them, brigging them for the right time. Knowing when to brig and when to not care, knowing when to have a soft hand and when to beat the shit out of someone.


Or having the prisoners and guards syndrome and beating people senseless left and right. Majority of Sec issues come from IC.

Look at Virology - Entirely possible to spend an entire round perfecting your immortality vaccine, only to get lynched because someone sneezed.


This was actually changed to something good.

Look at R&D - There's all sorts of sequences and lists and methods to maxing out the research levels.


Only to make Gay gax or churn out guns. R&D needs a rework and fast.

Look at Xenobiology - All the myriad slimes you can have, each one having not one but two effects per slimecore. Xenobio is completely self-sufficient!


Eh, not too keen on Slime magic. Xenobio needs more splicing.

Look at Toxins - There's a huge difference between Babby's First Bomb and the 10/20/40s I've seen. Temperatures, pressures, gas ratios, bomb placement...


All of that came from a bug y'know.
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Re: The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

Postby Psyentific » Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:18 pm #1131

My point, essentially, is this.

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Re: The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

Postby AseaHeru » Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:26 pm #1132

Yah, med is a teeny bit lacking. Needs more drugs.
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Re: The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

Postby Psyentific » Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:34 pm #1133

I'd actually want for more surgery, coupled with a nerf to the sleepers. Surgery is one of the things that's unique to Medbay - It's done in detail, complete with ghetto analogues and tool substitutions, but it's almost never used. If you go for more drugs, what's it gonna be? Variations on Bicaradine and Anti-toxin? Eh. Chemistry already has a lot of stuff.

Something simple off the top of my head - Past a certain point of damage (50 for examples sake), a portion of all damage (50% for examples sake) is subtracted from your maximum possible health, in addition to your current health. Performing a surgery on the damaged location will restore your maximum possible health, in addition to your current health.

As an example, let's say the HoS lasers you into crit. 100 burn damage to your head, ignore all other sources and crit-bleedout. Your friend gets you out of there, and puts ointment on. That ointment carries you up to 75% health, because 25 health is semi-permanently lost due to serious injury. You and your friend go fuck up the HoS, but in the process of dunking him you get lasered into crit again. Your friend puts more ointment on, but since you got dunked you're now capped at 50 Health. The two of you perform some ghetto surgery, pull the lasers out of your brain, and now you're at 100 health again.
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Re: The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

Postby tunderchief » Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:43 pm #1627

Absolutely fucking awful idea.


Will make multiple gametypes impossible.


The blob will turn half the crew into invalids inside of ten minutes.


Even the most well-prepped Ops team will be dunked unless you make their hardsuits nigh impenetrable.



Porting a shit, go to the server that has these functions if it's so good.
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Re: The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

Postby Skorvold » Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:02 pm #1763

If you've ever played MGS3: Snake Eater, check it's step by step medical system out, it would work great.
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Re: The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

Postby Stephie » Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:21 am #1812

Couldn't you fix a broken arm in the middle of a firefight in MGS3?

But, yeah, I really like that system. Something like that could work, but we'd definitely need to rework surgery so it doesn't require being buckled to a table, having a bedsheet nearby and having another person to actually do it.

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Re: The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

Postby Psyentific » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:11 am #1825

Yeah, I'd actually like to see MGS3 style medicine. Especially with ghetto equivalents.

Just, really, something that isn't Sleeper/Cryo. Anything more than "First Aid Kit"
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Re: The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

Postby Bluespace » Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:05 pm #1842

Accidentally throw a toolbox at someone, break their arms and get adminhelped.
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Re: The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

Postby AseaHeru » Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:07 pm #1843

Its kind of sad that more people dont use gheto cyro...
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Re: The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

Postby Psyentific » Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:12 pm #1852

Bluespace wrote:Accidentally throw a toolbox at someone, break their arms and get adminhelped.
Honk.

That's the thing, though. You're exaggerating the effects of a system that can easily be tweaked. Under one variation of the code, the thresholds for broken limbs are 15/7 - That is, fifteen damage to break an arm or a leg, and seven to break a hand or a foot. You could easily tweak that down to 1/1 for broken everything everywhere (honk) or 40/20 for robust arm/legs but comparatively fragile extremities. You could probably set Torso to 40 or 60, so that you'd only wind up with broken ribs or punctured lungs if you really get fucked up.

One of the reasons I'm such a strong proponent of baycode is that, on top of being a pre-existing pre-proven system, it's so easily tweakable to suit our own needs.
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Re: The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

Postby Steelpoint » Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:33 pm #1855

We should also look at making certain armour and antag armour items having much higher resistance values, since a Wizard that gets his legs blow off by the barman's beanbag shells is going to get old fast.
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Re: The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

Postby Psyentific » Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:59 pm #1862

Well, yeah. Off the cuff, I'd give Nuke Ops "Old style" (That is, current) first aid kits (maybe for TCs?) and find some way to prevent a specific mob or set of mobs limbs from breaking.
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Re: The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

Postby ExplosiveCrate » Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:01 pm #1888

Nuke ops have a special medkit they can buy for TCs, so you can stick it in that.
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Re: The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

Postby Donkie » Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:55 pm #1948

I support this, medbay sucks and the only somewhat fun reason to be there is either chemistry making a shitton of pills, or genetics trying to find all powers, which isn't even healing in that sense. As you said, anybody can fully heal anyone since there's medkits scattered around the station, a bruisepack and oinment will heal you from most damages. MD's are pretty fuckin obsolete.

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Re: The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

Postby Skorvold » Sat Apr 26, 2014 1:47 am #1957

Really, Snake Eaters system would kick a great deal of life into the game.

Look at all the new items we could have
http://metalgear.wikia.com/wiki/Medical ... nake_Eater
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Re: The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

Postby Kelenius » Sat Apr 26, 2014 4:26 am #1970

One thing I'd like to see copied from bay is regeneration of small wounds.

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Re: The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

Postby Numbers » Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:44 pm #2009

Honestly the only thing medbay needs is the new chemistry and some kind of stolen version of bay medical. Injuries that actually matter and are not just cured by applying a few chemicals.


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Re: The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

Postby AseaHeru » Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:21 pm #2429

Kelenius wrote:One thing I'd like to see copied from bay is regeneration of small wounds.

I still think that is in, as whenever I get hurt a bit on a /TG/ server I heal it, and get hungry at the same time.
Dosent mater when I get hurt/healed, always get hungry at the same time.
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Re: The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

Postby Lo6a4evskiy » Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:26 pm #2483

Psyentific, your argument that "everything has more depth than med" is crap, because everything is essentially broken down into clicks on something. There is no depth in engineering or R&D. Toxins has SOME depth to it, atmos has depth but it's not used in any normal circuimstances, but seriously, everything is very simple if you want to break it down like that.

If you mean depth like what players can do, you can do stuff as any job whatsoever, some more, some less, but don't tell me that MD doesn't have anything to do other than sit in medbay and click on patients from time to time, because that is simply not true.

Anyway, baymed is brig for victims. It may have depth, blah blah, it may be super fun for doctors and shit, but it's horrible for patients, it's punishing victims. That should not happen.

Instead of promoting baymed go and think of something that suits this server and is more fun than current system.

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Re: The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

Postby Steelpoint » Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:29 pm #2484

Again

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I find it disappointing that an entire job, and essentially a good chunk of a station department. Is obsoleted by but a single Bot that can be made in 30 seconds and in vast quantities...

The equivalent would be the Singularity being automatically turned on and activated at round start, where the computer process all Cargo orders. Research is done automatically by a droid getting and deconing items, or Security Bots handling all Security issues to a greater degree than Beepsky.

The point is, there is no reason to invalidate an entire job, and department to a good extent at all. I wish to put forward two seperate proposals to try and give MD's and Medical some more relevance to the station again.

Unfortunately, before I begin, the main problem with adding to Medical is that, as due to TG's playstyle, it can "inconvenience" people who got a boo boo. Also people have different attitudes to healing, some want more in depth while others detest healing that is more complex than a Bruise Pack or Ointment healing Deep Puncture wounds or 3rd Degree Burns.

------------------------------------------------------------------------


PROPOSAL 1 (AKA: THE SIMPLE BAD IDEA)
Remove Medibots, or change it so that the bot only injects Innaprovaline. It will keep you alive and stable but it won't heal you.

------------------------------------------------------------------------


PROPOSAL 2 (AKA: THE MORE THOUGHT OUT, BUT STILL BAD, IDEA)
As a note this idea is more of a thing I want to test the waters with, I do want to draw attention to the bad state Medical is in of course.

Bear with me. This will be long.

Have Burn/Brute damage be divided between two separate damage states, Damage (Red) and Serious Damage (Black). Red Damage is healed as it is currently where you apply a bruisepack/ointment to the wounded area and it will heal it over time (Healing time should not be very long). Medibots still heal Normal Damage.

Black Serious Damage however cannot be healed with First Aid Kit items and must be treated in the Medbay to heal, Serious Damage represents damage that extends beyond the exterior of the body and goes deep within. To heal a Serious Wound requires you to go through several steps.

1. Put patient into a Sleeper Pod, from here you scan the patient to determine the extent of the Serious Damage, this will also note any wounds that require surgery which I will explain later.
2. Eject the patient from the pod, the pod will print out a special syringe that is designed to target the detected wounds from this patient only.
3. Go to a deep injection charging terminal and insert your syringe, fill it up with the needed chemical for the wounds you plan to treat, this may require multiple trips.
4. Inject the syringe into the target areas, 5 units injected will start the healing process. At this point the wounds will slowly start to heal up to 50 hp worth of health.
4(b) You can insert a patient into a cryo cell at this stage to accelerate this healing process.
Congratulations, your patient is fully healed.

BUT WAIT, OR IF THIS IS TO COMPLEX

1. Put the patient into a Sleeper Pod.
2. Set the pod to "Deep Healing"
3. Wait for patient to fully heal
Congrats!

Also note that you can just throw a patient with Serious Damage into a cryo cell to heal as normal as an alternative, however this will take a long time and so should only be used if you either have too many patients to treat.

---------------------------------

A few things to consider however, when a limb area has suffered 20 hp worth of Serious Damage there is a chance (60% or so) that a critical wound will occur, a critical wound requires surgery to fix. Until fixed a critical wound will have the following effects.

a. A permanent 10 hp of damage will be afflicted to the target limb.
b. Every minute the wound will cause 5 hp worth of damage to the target limb.
c. The target limb will not be functional.
Head - Patient suffers trauma, will often be unable to move or interact for several seconds at random intervals.
Eyes - Patient suffers severe blindness or slips in and out of sight.
Chest - Patient suffers from constant oxygen loss at a slow rate.
Arms - Unable to use the affected arms for anything.
Legs - If one leg is in critical the patient moves at half speed, if both are in critical the player moves at walking speed. Patient takes small damage everytime they move if both legs are damaged.

In order to fix this wound you have to preform surgery on the patient.

However there are two ways to temporarily alleviate the symptoms
1. Inject an Stimulant Pen into the target area, a unique item in Medical Storage, this will remove the critical affect for about 1 to 2 minutes. Stimulant Pens are rare and only 6 spawn on station, enough for each MD and the CMO. The pen has three uses.
2. Support the critical wound, so bandaging the wounded limb will alleviate to an extent. Bandaging can use clothes. Bandages will stop the effect of the wound (You can use your hands now) but you will continue to suffer the other effects of the critical wound.

---------------------------------

For every attack rendered to a player there is a chance a certain cap amount (50%) will cause Serious Damage instead of normal Damage. So if you are hit by a Laser Gun you will suffer between 1 to 10 points of Serious Damage. Certain weapons however can increase or decrease the chances of Serious Damage occuring. A knife would have a 75% chance for Serious Damge for example, or a Screwdriver to the eyes would also have a 75%. However a Stun Baton would only have a 25% of Serious Damage.

---------------------------------

Finally certain Antags should be exempt from this system, to not significantly punish them. The following antags should have an immunity of sorts.

Nuke Ops - Their Armor should provide protection from Serious Damage.
Traitors - They can chose to buy a special "Stimulant Pen" that will, when injected, heal all Critical Wounds and Serious Wounds.
Wizard/Space Ninja - They would be immune as they will not have an opportunity to heal Critical or Serious Wounds.
Lings - A power that can directly remove Critical Wounds, also their regeneration process will remove all wounds.

---------------------------------

Just my suggestion, thanks for reading if you got this far.


My above suggestion seems well received when I put it forward a while ago.

We simply need to reach a good state where being injured is not going to take you out of the round for ever but at the same time give more depth to the medical system.
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Re: The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

Postby Alex Crimson » Mon Apr 28, 2014 5:10 pm #2494

It doesnt need to be a direct port. Even some of the baymed features would be great to add some depth to the job. Damage right now is just too boring. Brute damage? slap bruise packs on yourself. Burn damage? ointment. We need more types. Broken bones, dismembered limbs, bullets needing operations to remove. Actual life-threatening injuries that require more than running around with an almost all-cure medkit in your backpack.

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Re: The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

Postby Lo6a4evskiy » Mon Apr 28, 2014 5:12 pm #2495

Um, no.

Nothing that will make patients spend considerably more time in medbay is good.

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Re: The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

Postby Alex Crimson » Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:06 pm #2509

Anything that stops people being a walking medbay is good. I guess we just have a difference of opinion.

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Re: The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

Postby Steelpoint » Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:07 pm #2510

You have two camps when it comes to SS13's medical system.

Some want more in depth while others detest healing that is more complex than a Bruise Pack or Ointment healing Deep Puncture wounds or 3rd Degree Burns.
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Re: The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

Postby Psyentific » Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:15 pm #2534

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:Um, no.

Nothing that will make patients spend considerably more time in medbay is good.

Why not? Medbay exists, therefore it should have purpose and people should spend time in it.

From your viewpoint, I'd say just move Genetics, Virology and Chem to Science, move Cloning and the Sleepers to <Public Area>, then remove Med. There, now nobody has to spend time in Medical ever.
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Re: The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

Postby Lo6a4evskiy » Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:45 pm #2546

Medbay is a semi-public area already.

But yeah, frankly, not much would change from removing those doors, except that there would be even MORE greyshirts fucking around.

The fact that something exists does not mean that people should be forced to spend time in there. That is ridiculous.

Seriously, we have pretty much the only punishment for bad guys except death - that is forcefully putting them into enclosed environment. You basically say that it is normal and good guys should also get that for being victims. That is ridiculous and all sorts of wrong.

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Re: The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

Postby Psyentific » Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:52 pm #2551

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:Medbay is a semi-public area already.

But yeah, frankly, not much would change from removing those doors, except that there would be even MORE greyshirts fucking around.

The fact that something exists does not mean that people should be forced to spend time in there. That is ridiculous.

Seriously, we have pretty much the only punishment for bad guys except death - that is forcefully putting them into enclosed environment. You basically say that it is normal and good guys should also get that for being victims. That is ridiculous and all sorts of wrong.

No, actually. Much like the most plebian strategies of the greatest generals, my attack is a two-fronted pincer.

Mechanically - Medbay is dirt simple. Nobody can refute this, multiple people have said "Slap a bruise pack on it" so many times. I shouldn't have to defend something so blatantly obvious.

Role-play - Putting yourself in harms way ought to have some sort of drawback. I'm not saying that a couple toolboxings should put you in surgery for fifteen minutes - That's not fun for anyone. But I don't think anybody should be able to shrug off getting chaos dunked. I don't think people should be able to shrug off being shot with Lethal Lasers, and I don't think people should be able to shrug off Shitcurity giving them the beating of a lifetime.


One of the most Fun things I like in Baymed-Lite is being able to break peoples hands and/or feet instead of giving them a brig sentence. The Changeling cannot run away if all the bones in his body are shattered.
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Re: The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

Postby Kelenius » Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:17 pm #2560

Guys, seriously, stop comparing bay and /tg/. It's like you don't even realize that these two servers have a completely different gameplay. It works on bay because on bay serious injuries are actually rare. If you'd impletent broken bones bay-style, expect a lot of people who got hit four times by a toolbox to be stuck in surgery forever because CMO is a retard, one medic is ERPing, the other is a traitor and the third one is dead. It would also mean that we'll have to make rules much more harsh, because breaking someone's bone would mean removing them from a round for a long while.

Besides, it is rare to see round of less than three hours on bay. And it is rare to see round of more than two hours on /tg/. Many things of bay are intended for the slow, calm gameplay with long shifts. It simply won't do in /tg/'s chaos.

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Re: The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

Postby Munchlax » Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:25 pm #2565

Kelenius summed it up pretty well, tg's playstyle just isn't suited for baymed unless you try to change it, but it seems better to me to improve our own medsystem instead of copying one from another server and trying to tweak it to our preference.

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Re: The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

Postby lumipharon » Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:40 pm #2584

We don't have a medical system, we have a one-click-fix-it system.

If we can have baymed where bones only break/other serious problems only occur after severe damage (getting smashed into crit by an e-sword is going to do some damage) then why the hell not?

Any random murderboner can slaughter 20 people and not die if he has a medkit with him, atleast with this they would have to be wary of taking serious damage, or risk getting crippled. And hey, guess what? Maybe traitors will actually use code words to buddy up so they can ghetto surgery each other/help each other more?

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Re: The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

Postby Munchlax » Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:54 pm #2586

We do have a medical system, doesn't matter how simplistic it is.
I stand by my point and I rather see improvement on the current code than grabbing baymed.

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Re: The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

Postby Ikarrus » Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:58 pm #2587

I'd be happy if we just got some form of dismemberment.

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Re: The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

Postby Lo6a4evskiy » Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:59 am #2613

It's like you don't even listen. Making healing process longer, more complex and more dependent on other people than process of being injured is stupid. Currently cloning makes you retarded, gives you Tourettes and leaves you with almost no health. I've had entire rounds ruined because of how medical personnel acted after I was cloned. And you want this to be over ANY injury, not just death?

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Re: The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

Postby Alex Crimson » Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:47 am #2633

You can be cloned and sent on your way with a clean SE within minutes if the medical team are not derps. What you are describing isnt a problem with the medical system, its an incompetent medical team. You are going to encounter that no matter what. A medical system with more depth would just make it more fun for the guys healing you.

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