Critical Damage Change

[Steelpoint]

Proposal for a change to what occurs when you fall into critical damage.

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Right now: When you fall into critical damage, you fall unconscious, cannot interact with your environment and cannot speak or understand speech reliably.

Unless you are infected with a healing virus, or have a special implant, then you automatically suffer oxyloss until you die.

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My proposal: Critical damage now has two states. Hard crit and soft crit.

Soft Crit is between 0 and -49 health. In this state you are stuck on the floor. However you can communicate, move very slowly and still have some good visability. You still continue to accumulate oxyloss damage and you cannot pick up items or interact with the environment at all.

Hard crit is between -50 to -99 health. In this state you can no longer communicate sans making gurgling noises. You can still move but you're movement is significantly slower than before. You still continue to accumulate oxyloss damage.

(Alternatively, people in soft crit could still stand upright and walk, but very, very slowly. This would be a interesting change as people can't just keep smacking someone until they fall down and be 100% sure that person is in crit, now there is ambiguity)
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Why propose this?

In my opinion I dislike how being in critical damage is handled. Being thrown unconscious the moment you fall into crit removes any player agency or control to their fate (even in situation where death is 100% assured), in addition I think it makes murder easier if you just slam them quick enough with a sharp object. It also removes role play opportunities of someone crying for help as they slowly drag their bleeding body to safety.

I think this proposal would have a net positive effect. It would require a murderer to go out of their way to confirm a kill, thus making the act of murder much more involved, it would also give some agency to players who fall into crit, even if they still die. People feel less annoyed if they are in control until they die, whereas being stuck on a black screen as it slowly goes white is simply aggravating.

Thanks for reading.

[XDTM]

I like the soft crit part, although there should still be a range where you're just unconscious, but alive.

[Lumbermancer]

I like it. It's a slippery slope towards more realistic health model.

[Dr_bee]

I like it. It's a slippery slope towards more realistic health model.

It also makes it much riskier to just straight up shoot someone in the open as they will at least have time to scream on the radio for help.

Doing this would encourage SOME creative play when it comes to murdering. Strategic bombing, traps, and poison might see more use if openly attacking someone would basically guarantee that your identity is compromised, or at least that an attack has taken place.

[Shaps-cloud]

Oh right kor had floated the idea of incapacitation where from 0 to -30 you could still crawl around slowly and whisper until you hit -30 at which point you'd go into hard crit, and I wrote a quick implementation of it but since a freeze started right after that I forgot about it

I can work on it again if there's interest

[Steelpoint]

Any form of soft crit system would be worth investigating, while I would prefer the system I described in the OP, however I feel any change towards a less hard crit system would be of net benefit to the game.

PS: Wizards should not be able to cast spells in soft crit.

[Qbopper]

Oh right kor had floated the idea of incapacitation where from 0 to -30 you could still crawl around slowly and whisper until you hit -30 at which point you'd go into hard crit, and I wrote a quick implementation of it but since a freeze started right after that I forgot about it

I can work on it again if there's interest

I was looking forward to this so you at least have my support

[ShadowDimentio]

I mean this change will only effect people for one round because as soon as they realize that people are still "alive" in crit they'll just hit you a few extra times to kill you.

If someone manages to crit you before you can even scream it stands to reason they can kill you before you can too. Now instead of waiting for someone to be sideways you wait for them to deathgasp.

I'd be down with trying it though.

[Armhulen]

Oh right kor had floated the idea of incapacitation where from 0 to -30 you could still crawl around slowly and whisper until you hit -30 at which point you'd go into hard crit, and I wrote a quick implementation of it but since a freeze started right after that I forgot about it

I can work on it again if there's interest

This sounds a lot more fun than the proposed one, go for it

[XDTM]

Sounds good to me, fund it

[John_Oxford]

10% chance to be able to hold a item when your in softcrit on the floor

like you can try to pick it up but if you don't get that 10% chance it says "you try to pick up -item name- but you writhe in pain"

if you pick it up its all like "you barely manage to lift the -item name- from the -turf name-

more so for when a nuke op crits a security officer just outside the sing airlock he can MAYBE pick up his taser and btfo the syndie making him fall into the sing for that glorious last stand taser shot

weapon fire should be slower and more inaccurate in this state,

[Remie Richards]

How about no oxford.

[iamgoofball]

I coded this already and you all bitched it was a stupid concept. What the fuck.

[Qbopper]

I coded this already and you all bitched it was a stupid concept. What the fuck.

didn't you quit

[iamgoofball]

I coded this already and you all bitched it was a stupid concept. What the fuck.

didn't you quit

i quit because everyone and their mom freaked the fuck out at the concept of soft crit, so i scrapped the project

[Qbopper]

i was making a joke

[Luke Cox]

Memes aside I do think it's kinda bullshit how Goof codes elaborate shit just for people to bitch and whine about it for the most retarded reasons (see: guncrafting).

Back on topic though, I would love to see a working prototype for this.

[Remie Richards]

No, it's not bullshit, he should get an idea of if it's wanted, its potential problems, etc. up front.
We had this discussion with robustin too, just because you put effort in doesn't mean you deserve a merge.

[Qbopper]

I can't comment on goof or robustin specifically because I haven't seen their PRs or the context but if you make a giant fucking PR before you even ask people "hey what do you think of my idea", you really have no one else but yourself to blame if it gets denied

[Nabski]

Oh right kor had floated the idea of incapacitation where from 0 to -30 you could still crawl around slowly and whisper until you hit -30 at which point you'd go into hard crit, and I wrote a quick implementation of it but since a freeze started right after that I forgot about it

I can work on it again if there's interest

Just chiming in as the fourth person to say yes there's interest.

[iamgoofball]

No, it's not bullshit, he should get an idea of if it's wanted, its potential problems, etc. up front.
We had this discussion with robustin too, just because you put effort in doesn't mean you deserve a merge.

>guncrafting was one of the most requested features
>people didn't want it in practice

They'll roll back on it now to try and seem like they didn't backpedal at all but it's damned if you do damned if you don't.

[John_Oxford]

No, it's not bullshit, he should get an idea of if it's wanted, its potential problems, etc. up front.
We had this discussion with robustin too, just because you put effort in doesn't mean you deserve a merge.

>guncrafting was one of the most requested features
>people didn't want it in practice

They'll roll back on it now to try and seem like they didn't backpedal at all but it's damned if you do damned if you don't.

it was most requested when i made five threads about it that did it completely different then how you did it.

then you made one thread and said "HEY IS THIS SHITTY LEGO GUN MAKER LIKABLE" then three people said yes, then you looked at my thread and said "WELLL SHEET MUST BE A UNIANIMOUS OPINION THAT MY SHITS GOOD"


oxfordsmithing was good, your's was gun sprites chopped up into tiny pieces and with no-effort thrown into a community that you know hates low effort things

however i don't deny that the community has a history of backpedaling when they want a feature after having tried it and then blaming the coder for their apparent inability to code when they don't like the idea in practice instead of taking responsiblity for not liking the idea to begin with.


also remies a cuck

[Dr_bee]

No, it's not bullshit, he should get an idea of if it's wanted, its potential problems, etc. up front.
We had this discussion with robustin too, just because you put effort in doesn't mean you deserve a merge.

>guncrafting was one of the most requested features
>people didn't want it in practice

They'll roll back on it now to try and seem like they didn't backpedal at all but it's damned if you do damned if you don't.

Guncrafting was poorly implemented and completely fucked over any semblance of balance between antagonists and security. Sometimes requested features dont turn out to be good, and that is ok.

also guncrafting could still be a thing if you actually took the time and balanced it somewhat. the fully automatic disablers were freaking broken man.

[iamgoofball]

No, it's not bullshit, he should get an idea of if it's wanted, its potential problems, etc. up front.
We had this discussion with robustin too, just because you put effort in doesn't mean you deserve a merge.

>guncrafting was one of the most requested features
>people didn't want it in practice

They'll roll back on it now to try and seem like they didn't backpedal at all but it's damned if you do damned if you don't.

it was most requested when i made five threads about it that did it completely different then how you did it.

then you made one thread and said "HEY IS THIS SHITTY LEGO GUN MAKER LIKABLE" then three people said yes, then you looked at my thread and said "WELLL SHEET MUST BE A UNIANIMOUS OPINION THAT MY SHITS GOOD"


oxfordsmithing was good, your's was gun sprites chopped up into tiny pieces and with no-effort thrown into a community that you know hates low effort things

however i don't deny that the community has a history of backpedaling when they want a feature after having tried it and then blaming the coder for their apparent inability to code when they don't like the idea in practice instead of taking responsiblity for not liking the idea to begin with.


also remies a cuck

Your guncrafting involved fucking micromanaging screw types and screwdriver heads, do you really think players would enjoy that?

[iamgoofball]

No, it's not bullshit, he should get an idea of if it's wanted, its potential problems, etc. up front.
We had this discussion with robustin too, just because you put effort in doesn't mean you deserve a merge.

>guncrafting was one of the most requested features
>people didn't want it in practice

They'll roll back on it now to try and seem like they didn't backpedal at all but it's damned if you do damned if you don't.

Guncrafting was poorly implemented and completely fucked over any semblance of balance between antagonists and security. Sometimes requested features dont turn out to be good, and that is ok.

also guncrafting could still be a thing if you actually took the time and balanced it somewhat. the fully automatic disablers were freaking broken man.

See, the problem with this is we had two choices, add shittons of limiting factors that railroad your """modular'"" designs by preventing a shitton of combos and constantly add more of these for each time the players discover a new meta gun part combo ad infinium, or just let players do whatever and not worry about balance.

[ShadowDimentio]

Why not just balance parts so there are pros and cons to each part, your full auto disabler could have a huge clip and vomit shots but good luck hitting an enemy at anything less than point blank range.

[John_Oxford]

No, it's not bullshit, he should get an idea of if it's wanted, its potential problems, etc. up front.
We had this discussion with robustin too, just because you put effort in doesn't mean you deserve a merge.

>guncrafting was one of the most requested features
>people didn't want it in practice

They'll roll back on it now to try and seem like they didn't backpedal at all but it's damned if you do damned if you don't.

it was most requested when i made five threads about it that did it completely different then how you did it.

then you made one thread and said "HEY IS THIS SHITTY LEGO GUN MAKER LIKABLE" then three people said yes, then you looked at my thread and said "WELLL SHEET MUST BE A UNIANIMOUS OPINION THAT MY SHITS GOOD"


oxfordsmithing was good, your's was gun sprites chopped up into tiny pieces and with no-effort thrown into a community that you know hates low effort things

however i don't deny that the community has a history of backpedaling when they want a feature after having tried it and then blaming the coder for their apparent inability to code when they don't like the idea in practice instead of taking responsiblity for not liking the idea to begin with.


also remies a cuck

Your guncrafting involved fucking micromanaging screw types and screwdriver heads, do you really think players would enjoy that?

i'll take "i didn't read oxfords threads before i typed out some bullshit" for 500 points

it literally involved having a different screwdriver that CAME with the CRATE that you ordered from CARGO. ONE FUCKING SCREWDRIVER. and it was specifically so bum fuck mc assistant couldn't just steal a bunch of extremely powerful gun parts and completely fuck everyone with it by putting it together in a hallway. Which he could do if he stole the screwdriver too.

it was literally a more indepth version in a more realistic way. instead of barrel body stock grip mag sight attachment (yours) it was reciever, trigger group, bolt group, buffer spring, barrel, fore end grip, fore end attachment, barrel attachment, sights, gas system, ect.

mine was literally yours with more parts, that had different rarities instead of "heres a shitload of overpowered weapons"

[ShadowDimentio]

Nanotrasen would totally be evil enough to screw their gear together with weird screws you need a special screwdriver to get out.

[iamgoofball]

No, it's not bullshit, he should get an idea of if it's wanted, its potential problems, etc. up front.
We had this discussion with robustin too, just because you put effort in doesn't mean you deserve a merge.

>guncrafting was one of the most requested features
>people didn't want it in practice

They'll roll back on it now to try and seem like they didn't backpedal at all but it's damned if you do damned if you don't.

it was most requested when i made five threads about it that did it completely different then how you did it.

then you made one thread and said "HEY IS THIS SHITTY LEGO GUN MAKER LIKABLE" then three people said yes, then you looked at my thread and said "WELLL SHEET MUST BE A UNIANIMOUS OPINION THAT MY SHITS GOOD"


oxfordsmithing was good, your's was gun sprites chopped up into tiny pieces and with no-effort thrown into a community that you know hates low effort things

however i don't deny that the community has a history of backpedaling when they want a feature after having tried it and then blaming the coder for their apparent inability to code when they don't like the idea in practice instead of taking responsiblity for not liking the idea to begin with.


also remies a cuck

Your guncrafting involved fucking micromanaging screw types and screwdriver heads, do you really think players would enjoy that?

i'll take "i didn't read oxfords threads before i typed out some bullshit" for 500 points

it literally involved having a different screwdriver that CAME with the CRATE that you ordered from CARGO. ONE FUCKING SCREWDRIVER. and it was specifically so bum fuck mc assistant couldn't just steal a bunch of extremely powerful gun parts and completely fuck everyone with it by putting it together in a hallway. Which he could do if he stole the screwdriver too.

it was literally a more indepth version in a more realistic way. instead of barrel body stock grip mag sight attachment (yours) it was reciever, trigger group, bolt group, buffer spring, barrel, fore end grip, fore end attachment, barrel attachment, sights, gas system, ect.

mine was literally yours with more parts, that had different rarities instead of "heres a shitload of overpowered weapons"

Sorry my bad I got your construction one mixed up with guncrafting

Why and how the fuck would players want to keep track of and micromanage over 10 gun pieces? You complain about me having trouble balancing shit, how would throwing even more parts into the mix and adding even more potential balance breaking points to guns help anything???

[iamgoofball]

Like what the fuck would you do for multiple types of buffer springs effect wise in a way that players will notice and take advantage of???

[oranges]

stop trying to port goon features

[John_Oxford]

Like what the fuck would you do for multiple types of buffer springs effect wise in a way that players will notice and take advantage of???

different levels of screen shaking (recoil)
different levels of accuracy (accuracy)
different levels of weight (indirectly would affect item size to simulate this)
different sounds (had a sound designer on hand, good friends)
different fire rate (bolt would cycle harder/softer based on spring strength)

all of that just for a buffer spring.

balance wise i'll go ahead and make a graph to demonstrate specifically how i would go about balancing this.

[John_Oxford]

got bored of making color coded graphs, you get the point

[danno]

This HAS to be a joke, John

[John_Oxford]

This HAS to be a joke, John

ur a joke

[danno]

What the fuck

[calzilla1]

What the fug

[Luke Cox]

Complexity and realism don't always make for a better player experience. I'm afraid I'm with goof on this one.


Back on topic though, there seems to be a significant amount of support for crit changes. What I'm saying is that it's bullshit to just close it without at least giving it a test run.

[PathOfChaos1]

Back to the topic on hand... The soft crit system should function in the 25% range after initial crit giving you basic functions like speech, movement, and ability to interact with CERTAIN devices.. simple stuff like buttons, and doors not complex things that open up any windows, or require you to use an item on. There should be a medium crit zone that removes the ability to activate simple devices, and removes moving but speech is still possible. I believe this zone shout be the next 10% of health.

That basically leaves the ability to talk within the -35% range of health. Which if I remember damages correctly. The Dual esword, and revolver have to strike 1 more time to bring someone into the no speech threshold.(which nerfs the revolver from getting three people out to two, but that is a good thing) I also think the slow movement zone should have a micro stun when you hit it so you don't just dodge something the moment you fall into crit. Shit is supposed to hurt feel the pain for a moment damn it. It doesn't make people attack for such a long time that it becomes tedious to murder shit tons of people when using advanced/powerful weapons. While still really messing with people just fucking toolboxing, or other such nonsense.