[POLL] Porting NT Drones

Incomptinence · Tue Sep 16, 2014 2:45 pm

Bottom post of the previous page:

Yeah meant stop pulling button. Also great as an indicator of when you ARE pulling.

Lo6a4evskiy · Post by **Lo6a4evskiy** » Tue Sep 16, 2014 3:18 pm #29118

JJRcop wrote:- Made drones able to hear binary chat, but they cannot speak in it.

>malf AI
>drones decide to "build autism fort" near the core, totally for no reason and not interfering
Yeah, let's just keep them as independent as possible, eh? I would rather they just crawl around in search of stuff to do rather than massively rebuilding the station and fucking up antagonists.

peoplearestrange · Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:40 pm

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:
JJRcop wrote:- Made drones able to hear binary chat, but they cannot speak in it.
>malf AI
>drones decide to "build autism fort" near the core, totally for no reason and not interfering
Yeah, let's just keep them as independent as possible, eh? I would rather they just crawl around in search of stuff to do rather than massively rebuilding the station and fucking up antagonists.

But that WOULD be interfering. It would also require two way communication between the drones and the AI, the idea is the AI can report damage and make requests, but the drones are under no lawset to obey or even listen, it's just something that be hand to "hear" as a drone.

Remie Richards · Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:47 pm

I merged JJ's EMP and Binary chat changes into the main PR.

Lo6a4evskiy · Post by **Lo6a4evskiy** » Tue Sep 16, 2014 5:05 pm #29146

peoplearestrange wrote:But that WOULD be interfering.

Tracking wizard is human harm. Letting people come to nuke ops is human harm.

I mean, it's just a fact that at least some people will try to bend rules, will try to powergame and will try to gain advantage over antagonists. Please don't make AI by default share its binary with something that is not bound to it.

I mean, you are trying to build these robots that don't mess with anybody, right, just do their own thing? At least that's what I can make out of lawset. Then why would you give them binary, clearly a way to interact with "outside world".

Unless you're trying to make a replacement for engineers, of course.

peoplearestrange · Tue Sep 16, 2014 6:15 pm

Hmmm you make a valid point there.

I suppose drones will most likely inform each other of damage etc.

Remie Richards · Tue Sep 16, 2014 6:19 pm

Hearing only means they can't interfere with the Binary chat, they can receive orders from the AI (Receiving an order is not interfering, unless said order is to interfere, which they can ignore, as they could any request from an AI)

JJRcop · Post by **JJRcop** » Tue Sep 16, 2014 6:51 pm #29172

I didn't even have powergaming in mind when I made it so they can hear but can't talk. In NT/Artyom, drones can talk on binary chat. The issue wasn't metagaming or toeing the line on validhunting, it was that there were so many drones talking on binary that the AI and borgs couldn't really use it anymore.

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:43 pm #29195

Remie Richards wrote:Hearing only means they can't interfere with the Binary chat, they can receive orders from the AI (Receiving an order is not interfering, unless said order is to interfere, which they can ignore, as they could any request from an AI)

"Man, that hull breach is really annoying. Sure would be great if a million drones came out of nowhere to fix it."

MedicInDisquise · Wed Sep 17, 2014 11:09 am

:d for drone talk. AI's and Borg's have access to the channel, but drones don't have :b.

Lo6a4evskiy · Post by **Lo6a4evskiy** » Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:56 pm #29282

It's not even about drones being dicks to AI, it's just absolutely contradictory to the very basic idea the drones are based on.

Remie Richards · Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:57 pm

MERGED: Have a nice day!

MedicInDisquise · Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:19 pm

The godo guys win again

Cheridan · Post by **Cheridan** » Wed Sep 17, 2014 11:28 pm #29405

maybe you nerds will stop screeching ALIUM PLX in deadchat for a while

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Thu Sep 18, 2014 6:39 am #29495

Cheridan wrote:maybe you nerds will stop screeching ALIUM PLX in deadchat for a while

Yes please.

bandit · Post by **bandit** » Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:04 pm #29596

For emagging, how about a Drone Control Console (accessible by RD and CE, probably on the bridge)? Works similar to the robotics control console, gives a list of drones. Drones can be locked and maybe destroyed remotely. They can also be given a room of the station (dependent upon room names, like the Crew Monitoring Console) to be directed to. Emagging the drone-control console allows drones to be remotely hacked, which gives them 'destroy the station' laws. If directed to a room they will be told to direct their destruction there, otherwise they can just do whatever.

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:08 pm #29597

bandit wrote:For emagging, how about a Drone Control Console (accessible by RD and CE, probably on the bridge)? Works similar to the robotics control console, gives a list of drones. Drones can be locked and maybe destroyed remotely. They can also be given a room of the station (dependent upon room names, like the Crew Monitoring Console) to be directed to. Emagging the drone-control console allows drones to be remotely hacked, which gives them 'destroy the station' laws. If directed to a room they will be told to direct their destruction there, otherwise they can just do whatever.

Over complicates things a little beyond the normal scope of what an emag can already do with borgs. Emagging effects should be reserved for direct contact which can (and should be) avoided by the drones themselves. Also, I really hate "delete player" consoles like the RD console on principal.

bandit · Post by **bandit** » Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:51 pm #29602

The reason I suggested making it remote is twofold:

- Emagging drones should be fairly rare as the effect has the potential to fuck things up massively. Only the RD and CE can access the console (maybe the destruction capabilities should be on it, for situations where a station area needs to be detached for safety AKA traitorlol

- Drones aren't people, they're more akin to pAIs; I feel like this is a risk you take on willingly when you go drone.

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Thu Sep 18, 2014 10:25 pm #29606

bandit wrote:I feel like this is a risk you take on willingly when you go drone.

Mercifully, its not yet. I'm generally against these sorts of things because it not only removes people from the round, it removes them without interaction from those victims. If you want to take a drone out of the round, hit it with something or shoot it. You don't need a remote access delete key to slide down a console screen. Besides, I already get a feeling that people are too trigger happy with the borg console. Giving them a second one for "controlling" (destroying) drones seems irresponsible.

JJRcop · Post by **JJRcop** » Fri Sep 19, 2014 12:31 am #29631

I made the EMP thing so that it's actually possible to stop an annoying drone from moving long enough to beat their skulls in without them scurrying through vents.

Alex Crimson · Fri Sep 19, 2014 11:46 am

So if we play as a drone, can we not get cloned/become an Alien? Seems like drones will just take players who could be cloned out of the round. Can we not have drones still get the "your body is being cloned" message? Not sure if that already happens...

Can we get the ability to create a few sheets of metal/glass too? Could work the same way as Constructs creating Soul Shards. Like 1 sheet of metal/glass every 10 seconds or something. Then we wouldnt need to steal stuff from departments that may need the materials. I dont feel like this would be abused, considering drones have a lawset to stop them interacting with humans.

or, as someone was suggesting on the server, give drones their own little room in maint that they can ventcrawl to. It would have some sort of recycling machines that could make metal/glass/rglass as needed.

Basically i think drones should have some way to get materials that doesnt require stealing from departments or mining it yourself, which would take forever.

Lo6a4evskiy · Post by **Lo6a4evskiy** » Fri Sep 19, 2014 3:37 pm #29702

Alex Crimson wrote:Like 1 sheet of metal/glass every 10 seconds or something.

This would make them infinite material farms.

Alex Crimson · Post by **Alex Crimson** » Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:09 pm #29711

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:
Alex Crimson wrote:Like 1 sheet of metal/glass every 10 seconds or something.
This would make them infinite material farms.

They cannot interfere with humans, so using drones to farm mats like that would be abuse. Hell Engiborgs can do the same thing with their RCD, but you dont see that being abused.

Lo6a4evskiy · Post by **Lo6a4evskiy** » Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:30 pm #29716

Alex Crimson wrote:Hell Engiborgs can do the same thing with their RCD, but you dont see that being abused.

Well it's a lot harder for them to do that, but I agree that it is stupid.

Alex Crimson wrote:They cannot interfere with humans

This is a silly excuse to allow for such easy exploits.

Don't forget that drones are people who were out of the round and got a free pass back. They should not be a replacement for engineers or anyone, frankly, just a little fun guys who can be mildly useful if they wish to be.

But no, let's make them fucking AI slaves who do what engineering is supposed to do, farm materials out of nowhere and interfere however the fuck they want, because actually enforcing their law 1 is almost impossible.

Alex Crimson · Post by **Alex Crimson** » Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:55 pm #29726

Sounds like your issues are with the players, not the Drones. If they break law 1, then they will be quickly job banned. Elyina has been rather clear on this. Admins are going to be very unforgiving to Drones who break their laws on purpose.

As for the material spawning, i dont see the issue. If any Drones abuse it to farm metal/glass for the station, just ban them. Its no different than an Engiborg doing it after all.

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Fri Sep 19, 2014 5:23 pm #29727

Alex Crimson wrote:So if we play as a drone, can we not get cloned/become an Alien? Seems like drones will just take players who could be cloned out of the round.

You make it sound like dronehood is inflicted on unwilling players. I didn't choose the drone life. The drone life chose me.

Alex Crimson · Post by **Alex Crimson** » Fri Sep 19, 2014 5:42 pm #29733

Being able to instantly become a drone compared to needing to wait for someone to clone you. Its not that surprising that most choose to become a drone. But its just taking people out of the round forever, as once you become a drone you cannot be cloned.

You cant deny thats its going to have a negative effect on the amount of cloning done, because most ghosts will just enter a drone.

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Fri Sep 19, 2014 5:51 pm #29736

Alex Crimson wrote:Being able to instantly become a drone compared to needing to wait for someone to clone you. Its not that surprising that most choose to become a drone. But its just taking people out of the round forever, as once you become a drone you cannot be cloned.

You cant deny thats its going to have a negative effect on the amount of cloning done, because most ghosts will just enter a drone.

Player choice is always preferable. If they want to be cloned, they should probably not click on drones. This seems pretty obvious.

Alex Crimson · Post by **Alex Crimson** » Fri Sep 19, 2014 6:21 pm #29737

There is no warning message telling you that going drone removes your ability to be cloned, so not everyone is aware of it.

Remie Richards · Fri Sep 19, 2014 6:23 pm

Alex Crimson wrote:There is no warning message telling you that going drone removes your ability to be cloned, so not everyone is aware of it.

it's in a PR atm, so there will be soon.

Cipher3 · Post by **Cipher3** » Fri Sep 19, 2014 8:56 pm #29758

Drones being able to produce resources and having tools is a far better alternative to the station totally running out of materials and tools when they're needed.

Alex Crimson · Post by **Alex Crimson** » Fri Sep 19, 2014 9:40 pm #29774

Cipher3 wrote:Drones being able to produce resources and having tools is a far better alternative to the station totally running out of materials and tools when they're needed.

This pls. So much this. Being able to produce their own materials would help oh so much.

Incomptinence · Sat Sep 20, 2014 1:33 am

If the station runs out of materials are drones allowed to mine?

Post by **MrStonedOne** » Sat Sep 20, 2014 6:37 am #29842

Drones could mine, but they wouldn't be allowed to deliver the shit to anywhere, only mine, process, use for their own shit and leave the rest whereever they want to store it

Post by **Fatal** » Sat Sep 20, 2014 7:34 am #29849

The issue of drones not having enough materials and / or toolboxes is easily solved without any coding efforts, it's called CARGO BAY

The roboticist who makes the drones tells cargo to order toolbox crates (which contain 3 blue and 3 yellow toolboxes), and order metal and glass crates, and then put them somewhere for the drones to take them from (mech bay)

I know most people seem to think cargo is used for ordering weapons and silly clothing, but you know, they can be useful sometimes, let's NOT take that away from them by giving drones free metal

Making an autolathe for the drones in the mech bay is also the sign of a good science team

Alex Crimson · Post by **Alex Crimson** » Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:07 am #29853

Cargo is great and all, but they would need to be constantly supplying metal crates for there to be enough. Drones go through metal very fast. Cargo doesnt have enough points to be doing this, especially if they are terrible people who gun cargo/order party crates.

Drones would also not be able to order metal if there are any humans around cargo, as they are not allowed to interfere with humans.

Post by **MisterPerson** » Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:41 am #29857

/vg/ had a similar issue where mommis would piss off Cargo Bay and order metal and stuff and waste all their points. I don't know if they ever solved it very well.

Incomptinence · Sat Sep 20, 2014 1:04 pm

Drones pseudo mesons should be full mesons so they can mine for themselves and hopefully avoid antagonizing cargo too much. Also the middle mouse button hand switch shortcut does not work for them, real handy for something switching hands all the time (yeah I know the other ones are still there).

bandit · Post by **bandit** » Sat Sep 20, 2014 5:35 pm #29917

MisterPerson wrote:/vg/ had a similar issue where mommis would piss off Cargo Bay and order metal and stuff and waste all their points. I don't know if they ever solved it very well.

A fluff way to solve it would be that cargo's ordering computer causes you to interact with Nanotrasen officials, i.e. humans.

Incomptinence · Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:40 pm

Tested out miner drone, it is viable with just basic gear however without proper mesons or meson toggle finding iron itself is dumb luck while the drone can actually ping all other other ores (with mining scanner) and find them normally.

Alex Crimson · Sat Sep 20, 2014 10:23 pm

Mining is dumb. You cannot get the ore out of the ore smelting machine without an ID. If you weld the ore, it takes 15+ fuel for a single sheet of metal. Its not practical at all.

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Sat Sep 20, 2014 10:25 pm #29968

Alex Crimson wrote:Mining is dumb. You cannot get the ore out of the ore smelting machine without an ID. If you weld the ore, it takes 15+ fuel for a single sheet of metal. Its not practical at all.

Drones can use the mining station smelter. The reason miners don't use it is because the mining machine is easier/stores it/gives points. Drones really don't need to care about any of that.

Incomptinence · Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:43 pm

Miners mostly use the new mining machine because it gives points yeah. Also a note on drone mining, the current conveyer set up on the smelter acts... strangely sometimes not moving anything for a whole minute then bang all normal again.

Should NT Drones Be Ported to TG?