HUMANITY STRONG

A place to record your ideas for the game.

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Should the lizard race be barred from heads of staff jobs?

Yes!
32
20%
Yes!
32
20%
Yes!
32
20%
Yes, but only for a limited time!
5
3%
Yes, but only for a limited time!
5
3%
Yes, but only for a limited time!
5
3%
No!
16
10%
No!
16
10%
No!
16
10%
Abstain.
1
1%
Abstain.
1
1%
Abstain.
1
1%
 
Total votes : 162

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paprika
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HUMANITY STRONG

Postby paprika » Thu Oct 02, 2014 6:57 am #32873

Recently, Ikarrus added a config option to bar lizardmen from heads of staff roles for fluff purposes.

https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/4705

Vote on whether you'd like to see this option enabled in the poll above. Discuss below.

Personally, I'd like it to be enabled for a week or so for testing purposes to see what happens. Maybe longer if it enforces the fluff better. Not even /vg/ allows mutant races into heads of staff positions (if I recall correctly) so I think it'd do good for our fluff and make them less Hairless Humans to add more to their dynamic. And rest assured, horn style options and better lizard skin color choosing are coming soon eventually to a /tg/ near you.
Oldman Robustin wrote:It's an established meme that coders don't play this game.



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Re: HUMANITY STRONG

Postby ThatSlyFox » Thu Oct 02, 2014 7:09 am #32877

It makes sense. If we are going to add more races we might as well establish now that humans are better and more protected.

I doubt anyone will even notice though, unless people tell them. Full support!

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Re: HUMANITY STRONG

Postby Steelpoint » Thu Oct 02, 2014 7:15 am #32879

I thought it was already turned on. At least it was a week ago

Either way, I support humanity.
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Re: HUMANITY STRONG

Postby Arete » Thu Oct 02, 2014 7:42 am #32883

Yes, but maybe be lenient about allowing exceptions for people who ask the admins about running a gimmick character or something.

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Re: HUMANITY STRONG

Postby Fragnostic » Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:34 am #32894

How about a small edit to silicon policy. The safety and well-being, as well as the needs, of a human are prioritized over that of a lizardperson. Basically, lizards are a little discriminated, but what about a simple buff to lizards, hyperzine speed when running.
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Re: HUMANITY STRONG

Postby Psyentific » Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:50 am #32897

~~GLORIOUS HUMAN MASTER RACE~~
I haven't logged into SS13 in at least a year.

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Re: HUMANITY STRONG

Postby Lo6a4evskiy » Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:07 am #32899

>trying to prevent people from roleplaying in a certain way with poor game mechanics
uh, why

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Re: HUMANITY STRONG

Postby deathhoof » Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:29 am #32901

Okay well as it is, they arn't actually lizards, they are dinosaurs because they are warm blooded. They need to be cold blooded and get all the perks of being cold blooded:
-slower metabolism
-greater tolerance to heat
-greater intolerance to cold
-no internally generated body heat (so make warm blooded species heat up rooms slightly)

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Re: HUMANITY STRONG

Postby Gun Hog » Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:31 am #32902

This configuration is already active, and has been for a while. I think it is terrible, but the majority seems to like it for some reason, so it is here to stay.

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Re: HUMANITY STRONG

Postby Psyentific » Thu Oct 02, 2014 12:36 pm #32912

Gun Hog wrote:This configuration is already active, and has been for a while. I think it is terrible, but the majority seems to like it for some reason, so it is here to stay.

Space racism.
Spaceism.
I haven't logged into SS13 in at least a year.

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Re: HUMANITY STRONG

Postby Scott » Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:02 pm #32937

I only roll for security as my lizard character. Your loss!

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Re: HUMANITY STRONG

Postby Steelpoint » Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:04 pm #32940

Wouldn't it be better to set up the system so if you get a protected roll as a non-human you simply get turned into a Human?

Better yet if you can set up multiple names in the same character profile for difference species.
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Re: HUMANITY STRONG

Postby Scott » Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:09 pm #32942

No it wouldn't be better. No point in having lizards then.

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Re: HUMANITY STRONG

Postby Steelpoint » Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:11 pm #32943

Lizards can't play in Security or Command roles.

No point in having Lizards then.

Right.
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Re: HUMANITY STRONG

Postby Scott » Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:12 pm #32945

You said "turn lizards into humans".

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Re: HUMANITY STRONG

Postby Steelpoint » Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:13 pm #32947

If you read what I said, I clearly stated that if a Lizard player is assigned a Human only role, that they be switched into a Human.
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Re: HUMANITY STRONG

Postby Gun Hog » Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:18 pm #32951

I disagree. That would result in, for example, a human HoS named Beats-The-Clown. The current restriction system is fine in how it operates, but in my opinion, having it in place at all is trash. A disadvantage for a purely cosmetic choice.
Last edited by Gun Hog on Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: HUMANITY STRONG

Postby Scott » Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:18 pm #32952

Well, when I first agreed to this, I thought it was just an admin button that could be used for events.

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Re: HUMANITY STRONG

Postby Steelpoint » Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:21 pm #32953

Why would a Lizard get away with a shit name but a Human would get in trouble?

As I said, and I'll just quote myself.

Steelpoint wrote:Better yet if you can set up multiple names in the same character profile for different species.
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Re: HUMANITY STRONG

Postby Saegrimr » Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:25 pm #32956

Because lizards are shit. Play a sub-human and get a sub-human name.
I'm seeing something similar to what happened on /vg/. Everybody fucking hated Vox when it got added, and they got fucked with constantly, yet Vox were the only ones actually attempting to roleplay.
tedward1337 wrote:Sae is like the racist grandad who everyone laughs at for being racist, but deep down we all know he's right.

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Re: HUMANITY STRONG

Postby Arete » Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:39 pm #32962

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:>trying to prevent people from roleplaying in a certain way with poor game mechanics
uh, why


Allowing lizardpeople to have head roles is also preventing people from roleplaying a certain way. If you want to roleplay a member of an oppressed race, it'll be undermined if half the command staff are members of that same race.

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Re: HUMANITY STRONG

Postby Lo6a4evskiy » Thu Oct 02, 2014 5:48 pm #32981

Arete wrote:
Lo6a4evskiy wrote:>trying to prevent people from roleplaying in a certain way with poor game mechanics
uh, why


Allowing lizardpeople to have head roles is also preventing people from roleplaying a certain way. If you want to roleplay a member of an oppressed race, it'll be undermined if half the command staff are members of that same race.

There is nothing stopping you from declaring that all of them are spies that infiltrated our government and you are the righteous warrior destroying lizard oppression.

You don't lose the ability to be a specist if lizards are heads. But you do lose the ability to rule glorious lizard empire and make alliance with turtles. Shitposting "HUR DUR HUMAN MASTR RACE" will not change the fact that this is removing fun options for no other reason than people shitposting.

It's not even my fucking opinion, it's just the fact. You're limiting players' options. For a very bad reason of
Psyentific wrote:~~GLORIOUS HUMAN MASTER RACE~~

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Re: HUMANITY STRONG

Postby Arete » Thu Oct 02, 2014 6:17 pm #32990

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:You don't lose the ability to be a specist if lizards are heads.


You seem to be under the impression that repeatedly stating the same point is an acceptable alternative to reading other people's posts. It is not.

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Re: HUMANITY STRONG

Postby Lo6a4evskiy » Thu Oct 02, 2014 7:00 pm #33009

I'm not sure what are you trying to say here.

Can somebody please explain what does restricting lizards to nonheads add that is unique to that situation?

Or, may be we have too many security players on our hands, is that the case?

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Re: HUMANITY STRONG

Postby Redblaze3000 » Thu Oct 02, 2014 8:00 pm #33020

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:I'm not sure what are you trying to say here.

Can somebody please explain what does restricting lizards to nonheads add that is unique to that situation?

Or, may be we have too many security players on our hands, is that the case?

One of the biggest problems currently is no one plays sec! Plus lizards can still be doctors, the qm, and everything that is more fun than sec.

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Re: HUMANITY STRONG

Postby Cipher3 » Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:34 pm #33041

Psyentific wrote:~~GLORIOUS HUMAN MASTER RACE~~
Spoiler:
Nathanael Greene begins to reshape Bryce Pax's genitals to look more feminine.
Nathanael Greene has made a woman of Bryce Pax!

Valerie Sinnet says, "Nathaniel Greene charged the brig with a fucking HONK."

[Common] Assists-the-Crew hisses, "Walker Quinn s-s-s-ss-stole the HoP's-s-s-ss-s door"

OOC: HotelBravoLima: I literally can't be removed from power.

This line gets me every time:
I demand this ban be lifted right now. ~Bibliodewangus

What you hear walking past people:
Erin Wake whispers, "You should ready up on Badger and boink with me..."

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I've got all that great hitler flavor but only half the hitler calories." - Anon3

You seem to be under the mistaken assumption that PR matters. ~MisterPerson

DEAD: Ichigo Momomiya says, "Coravin's just an ass."

Linus Johnson says, "Hey you know I got this game Skyrim last week"
Linus Johnson says, "I have a level 19 ranger and its so fun"
Weston Zadovsky says, "did he just"
Weston Zadovsky says, "fucking hell"

The emergency shuttle has been called. It will arrive in 10 minutes.
Nature of emergency:
Coravin, just Coravin.

Beryl Nyuphoran says, "Fucking get out."
Coravin Vattes asks, "Please?"
Beryl Nyuphoran says, "Please get the fuck outta my lab."
Coravin Vattes exclaims, "Okay!"
[Common] Beryl Nyuphoran {RD} asks, "WHO GAVE CORAVIN ALL ACCESS?"

Lindsay Donk stammers, "L-Luc-ck w-was-s-s s-s-such-h a beaut-tifu p-p-p-pr-r-rom-m q-q-q-queen"

Ty Andrews curls up in a ball on the floor and purrs.

by oranges » Sun Feb 15, 2015 7:15 pm
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Re: HUMANITY STRONG

Postby Arete » Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:51 pm #33047

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:I'm not sure what are you trying to say here.


You responded to a point I didn't make. The point I made was this:

Arete wrote:Allowing lizardpeople to have head roles is also preventing people from roleplaying a certain way. If you want to roleplay a member of an oppressed race, it'll be undermined if half the command staff are members of that same race.


I was not asking for the right to play a specist. I was asking for the right to roleplay a member of an oppressed species. This is not possible if the mechanics do not back up the oppression.

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Re: HUMANITY STRONG

Postby Lo6a4evskiy » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:21 am #33114

Arete wrote:This is not possible if the mechanics do not back up the oppression.

Er, pretend that those are corrupted lizards bought by humans or whatever? I thought the whole point of roleplaying was that you could pretend whatever you want regardless of mechanics? I mean, gee, I make stuff up all the time, just because it's fun. I don't really care if it is anywhere in the lore which luckily no one cares about on this server, or if mechanics support it.

However, I cannot do that if I'm literally forbidden from playing a certain role. It's not even about roleplay here, it's about game mechanics. I want to play lizards and I happen to almost always be playing heads or security, because those roles are the most fun, with most social interactions.

How come I don't get to do that because
Cipher3 wrote:
Psyentific wrote:~~GLORIOUS HUMAN MASTER RACE~~

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Re: HUMANITY STRONG

Postby Arete » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:39 am #33119

In that case, I recommend you simply pretend that your head of staff character is a lizard.

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Re: HUMANITY STRONG

Postby Lo6a4evskiy » Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:02 am #33125

Hey, that's a great idea, I'll totally do that.

But I'd still like to be a lizard. It's different. See, this is exactly what having restrictions tied to game mechanic is like. Only with the addition of lizards possibilities actually expanded and here they shrink.

Meanwhile you could do the following without the restriction:
a) Simply refuse to acknowledge lizards in command
b) Come up with an explanation (lizard captain is actually a sex slave of an admiral and was put in command for fun. We have 17-year old captains, you know. It makes sense).
c) Roleplay oppressed all you want in rounds where no lizards are in command.
d) Roleplay oppressed all you want just ignoring the fact that there are lizards in command being a whiny old lizard whose life sucks, for example.

And my options with restrictions would be:

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Re: HUMANITY STRONG

Postby paprika » Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:13 am #33149

It adds to the fluff. /vg/ does it like this too with their races. It makes lizards less of a purely cosmetic choice and opens up more roleplay opportunities. Who knows, lizards might even get a heat protection buff in the future.
Oldman Robustin wrote:It's an established meme that coders don't play this game.

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Re: HUMANITY STRONG

Postby Lo6a4evskiy » Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:39 am #33204

But lack of fluff lets you do a lot more, because you have less boundaries. Honestly, what opportunities? You can play oppressive all you want, as suggested above.

Saying that you cannot roleplay oppressed lizards because they can be heads is like saying that you cannot roleplay feminists because women can be heads. Yes you fucking can.

What is wrong with lizards being a cosmetic choice? What, is hairstyle meaningless, because it's purely cosmetic? Fuck no, I couldn't imagine the station of clones being the same.

Jesus Christ, don't take away my ability to play lizards.

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Re: HUMANITY STRONG

Postby paprika » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:53 pm #33318

>Don't take away my ability to play lizards which we added a few months ago and is entirely just GREEN HUMANS THAT HISS

You act like it's this critical part of /tg/ that can't evolve or change in any way.
Oldman Robustin wrote:It's an established meme that coders don't play this game.

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Re: HUMANITY STRONG

Postby Lo6a4evskiy » Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:17 pm #33331

>evolve
Um, this is just removing the ability to play as lizards, it's not evolution. Giving lizards unique game mechanics is another topic entirely.

And stop implying that purely cosmetic things don't matter.

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Re: HUMANITY STRONG

Postby Apsis » Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:11 pm #33350

This shit is already toggled you dingus. Who wants to be a head anyway? It's not like people actually give a shit. Just the other day the HoP made me the replacement HoP, and I was playing a Lizardperson. I'm still disappointed in Ikarrus for jumping the gun here.

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Re: HUMANITY STRONG

Postby Lo6a4evskiy » Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:47 pm #33362

Apsis wrote:This shit is already toggled you dingus.

Does it make it any less terrible?
Apsis wrote:Who wants to be a head anyway? It's not like people actually give a shit.

I rest my case.

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Re: HUMANITY STRONG

Postby paprika » Sat Oct 04, 2014 7:41 am #33552

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:>evolve
Um, this is just removing the ability to play as lizards, it's not evolution. Giving lizards unique game mechanics is another topic entirely.

And stop implying that purely cosmetic things don't matter.

Removing the abilities to play as lizards in head roles which we've established on this server is not a part of the server's IC canon as evidenced by the server config option being toggled on. That's what this poll is here to decide anyway, whether the fluff dictates NT is pro-equal-opportunity or more of an oppressive megacorp that doesn't trust the cheap labor.

I prefer the latter for reasons I've already explained. If you're looking at this from a purely gameplay perspective, you shouldn't care whether you're a lizard or a human because it's a purely cosmetic difference. It's a fluff change and has nothing to do with gameplay. Make a human if you want to play heads if this option is on.
Oldman Robustin wrote:It's an established meme that coders don't play this game.

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Re: HUMANITY STRONG

Postby Lo6a4evskiy » Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:11 am #33558

>poll
Apsis wrote:Who wants to be a head anyway? It's not like people actually give a shit.

Cipher3 wrote:
Psyentific wrote:~~GLORIOUS HUMAN MASTER RACE~~

Psyentific wrote:~~GLORIOUS HUMAN MASTER RACE~~


I doubt anyone will ever truly benefit from this and I won't be able to play lizard captain any more. Shame.

From purely gameplay perspective this will just reduce number of people playing head and security roles.

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Re: HUMANITY STRONG

Postby Steelpoint » Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:04 am #33575

Security is currently unaffected by these changes, only command roles are.
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Re: HUMANITY STRONG

Postby bandit » Sat Oct 04, 2014 5:24 pm #33635

No, this is silly. It was only proposed in response to anti-lizard griefing, which has died down like it was always going to because the novelty wore off.
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admin feedback pls

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Re: HUMANITY STRONG

Postby lumipharon » Sun Oct 05, 2014 1:33 am #33724

It's literally pointless to even have lizards, if they have no 'stat differences' (which they shouldn't have because powergaming of course), so that leaves non gameplay differences. IE: the established fact that lizards are 2nd class citizens. This isn't HUMAN STRONK (well, from an IC perspective, yes) but it actually makes something like, interesting fluffwise about being a different race. Otherwise they're just green people that hiss.

And saying have less fluff makes you do more is a pretty terrible argument. If lizards could only be janitors, because lizards were enslaved in year 2152 on their native planet which was renamed janitoria, to be space janitors for NT facilities and nothing else is allowed ever, then yes, that would be too restricting. Having overarching fluff however helps cement general ideas of the gameworld. It's pretty shitty when one person is playing the high flying lizard captain executive officer aristocrat, while others are playing lizards where it's established they're atleast mildly downtrodden as a species. Hell, asimov silicons (IC, not OOC) don't give a shit about lizards, this is a pretty good example of 'lizards are 2nd class citizens'

Also if nothing else, just get damn promoted to head positions, like the clown. Or like a lizard clown.

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Re: HUMANITY STRONG

Postby Lo6a4evskiy » Sun Oct 05, 2014 5:46 am #33757

Since when does anyone cares about fluff on this server. Any roleplay that happens is entirely local and nobody gives a fuck about it afterwards. It's not consistent, and that's great. One round lizards can be slaves, another they can be conquerors. Majority will not care most of the time, but I like the diversity, the fact that my character can be different in different rounds, that there is no huge lore that I have to read and follow, that I can just create my own story on the go, because I feel like it.

And yeah, all of you who say that "it doesn't matter lizards are just human", I dare you to force whole station to be absolutely identical clones for a week and we'll see how that doesn't matter at all, since it all entirely cosmetic.

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Re: HUMANITY STRONG

Postby paprika » Sun Oct 05, 2014 7:45 am #33767

I can't help but feel like lo6a4 has a lizard otherkin
Oldman Robustin wrote:It's an established meme that coders don't play this game.

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Re: HUMANITY STRONG

Postby omnitricks » Fri Oct 10, 2014 7:49 pm #35363

Humans are the masterace. AI starts as asimov, lizards are non human according to Asimov. You can pretty much have the AI kill your targets as a tator according to the rules although the AI might screw you over unless your instructions are accurate and watertight. Captain lizard? Tator: "Captain is non human. Kill captain according to law 2"

This is why we should start with Corporate or something and its pretty much why I change the laws to Corporate at every opportunity.


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