bring back the singularity

onleavedontatme · Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:54 pm

Bottom post of the previous page:

Why do we need 3 engines that basically do the same thing (infinite power) but two of those engines have no real variation in setup, a binary fail state (no meltdown/chance to save it, they are out or they are not), and no real room for feature growth.

All it does is complicate the job of whichever poor bastard eventually wants to try and make power matter.

ShadowDimentio · Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:13 pm

Kor wrote:Why do we need 3 engines that basically do the same thing (infinite power) but two of those engines have no real variation in setup, a binary fail state (no meltdown/chance to save it, they are out or they are not), and no real room for feature growth.

All it does is complicate the job of whichever poor bastard eventually wants to try and make power matter.

>Do the same thing

It gives the engineer setting it up the chance to pick which setup they want to use. Most will just go for whatever is the fastest to set up (the singu, probably), while others may do something different for whatever reason. Maybe they're traitor and want to release the singu, or maybe they just have a preference for one engine, or maybe they don't know how to set up but one engine. There's any number of reasons that someone could be compelled to pick one engine over another, and no downside to letting them pick.

>No variation in setup

There's pretty variation in advanced setups, but really I could take or leave the tesla I only really want the singu.

>No chance to save it

Increase the charge the shield box holds and have it sound an alarm if it starts losing power like the SM. Bam like 10 lines of code and it's fixed easy peasy.

>No room for feature growth

What does that even mean? More of the "if there's only one engine people will code for it more"? Coders don't give a fuck how many engines there are in rotation, they code what they want.

>Power mattering

Denying something on the basis that someone might someday change something associated with it is extremely stupid and is not an argument.

captain sawrge · Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:14 pm

You are extremely stupid and should not be allowed to communicate with other people.

ShadowDimentio · Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:16 pm

captain sawrge wrote:You are extremely stupid and should not be allowed to communicate with other people.

Says the admin that got demoted for pulling dumb shit. I guess you would know best, huh?

onleavedontatme · Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:17 pm

ShadowDimentio wrote: Denying something on the basis that someone might someday change something associated with it is extremely stupid and is not an argument.

>planning ahead in a development process that has been ongoing for over a decade is not an argument

lol

ShadowDimentio · Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:21 pm

When/IF someone actually decided to sit down and start reworking power and engineering to actually matter, then sure we can talk about going to just one engine but until then that's not an argument and you're trying to deny something on the basis of something that doesn't exist,

Also last I checked the engines all put out roughly the same amount of power (lots) so yeah there's no reason to deny this even then

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:29 pm #392425

I'm going to take all this as my autistic custom setups being validated by the D E S I G N lead.

Edit: On a related not,SM is a far better experience than the singularity or tesla in every possible regard. There's more room for customization, there's some means of recourse if it goes south, and there's the thrill of trying to fix a meltdown.

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:42 pm #392427

If we changed power to require a modicum of intelligence to run, people would bitch and moan that there wasn't enough power to do anything and complain about being beholden to a single department

Don't tell me I'm wrong because I see you motherfuckers break-in to engie when you experience a brownout from a cut wire and tell me how to do my job.

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:50 pm #392431

Anonmare wrote:If we changed power to require a modicum of intelligence to run, people would bitch and moan that there wasn't enough power to do anything and complain about being beholden to a single department

Don't tell me I'm wrong because I see you motherfuckers break-in to engie when you experience a brownout from a cut wire and tell me how to do my job.

Shitters break into department rather than interact with the people in said department when they want the contents of said department.

News at 11 after weather and traffic.

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:56 pm #392434

Assistant maint access was a mistake tbh

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:01 pm #392436

Anonmare wrote:Assistant maint access was a mistake tbh

That came back because said assistants would just hack open maint if they didn't have access anyway or beg it off the HoP.

onleavedontatme · Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:27 pm

Luke Cox wrote:I'm going to take all this as my autistic custom setups being validated by the D E S I G N lead.

Edit: On a related not,SM is a far better experience than the singularity or tesla in every possible regard. There's more room for customization, there's some means of recourse if it goes south, and there's the thrill of trying to fix a meltdown.

Pretty much yeah. It builds on one of the defining features of the game (atmos) and allows for actual science/experimentation. Right now there isn't really a reward for that other than trying to get a personal high score, but the mechanical depth is still there.

Handing out medals to the engineering team for stopping the meltdown at .3% was another particularly memorable experience I had.

If people really want the "round is over no matter what" deathball back we could just make that the default meltdown option again.

Qustinnus · Post by **Qustinnus** » Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:04 am #392543

Kor wrote:Why do we need 3 engines that basically do the same thing (infinite power) but two of those engines have no real variation in setup, a binary fail state (no meltdown/chance to save it, they are out or they are not), and no real room for feature growth.

All it does is complicate the job of whichever poor bastard eventually wants to try and make power matter.

All 3 of them are shit and should be replaced with something better.

captain sawrge · Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:05 am

Qustinnus wrote:
Kor wrote:Why do we need 3 engines that basically do the same thing (infinite power) but two of those engines have no real variation in setup, a binary fail state (no meltdown/chance to save it, they are out or they are not), and no real room for feature growth.

All it does is complicate the job of whichever poor bastard eventually wants to try and make power matter.

All 3 of them are shit and should be replaced with something better.

Code it or find someone that will.

ShadowDimentio · Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:27 am

Kor wrote:If people really want the "round is over no matter what" deathball back we could just make that the default meltdown option again.

Acceptable.

onleavedontatme · Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:38 am

ShadowDimentio wrote:
Kor wrote:If people really want the "round is over no matter what" deathball back we could just make that the default meltdown option again.
Acceptable.

Make the PR then it shouldn't be too hard to swap two meltdowns

Qustinnus · Post by **Qustinnus** » Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:20 am #392554

captain sawrge wrote:
Qustinnus wrote:
Kor wrote:Why do we need 3 engines that basically do the same thing (infinite power) but two of those engines have no real variation in setup, a binary fail state (no meltdown/chance to save it, they are out or they are not), and no real room for feature growth.

All it does is complicate the job of whichever poor bastard eventually wants to try and make power matter.

All 3 of them are shit and should be replaced with something better.
Code it or find someone that will.

i dont play engineering so I don't trust myself with making that change, and if Ninja wasn't already swamped with projects I'd ask if he'd want to finish his engine.

Lumbermancer · Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:10 am

Create plasma engine and make miners actually dig for plasma.

RandomMarine · Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:11 am

An array of pacman generators would be more engaging and balanced than any of the other engines.

Lumbermancer · Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:19 am

Every department has its own pacman and they have to fight for plasma.

BeeSting12 · Post by **BeeSting12** » Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:33 pm #392642

A giant plasmafueled generator that has a high probability of overheating and causing fires would be pretty cool

Lumbermancer · Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:20 pm

The wires are replaced by pipes which transport heat generated by plasma fueled generator. Each department has turbine converting that heat into electricity. Generator, turbines and pipes can catch fire. Fires are rebalanced to be more intense but slower spreading, and spreading across more surfaces and items. Suddenly atmos tech fire teams are needed.

CPTANT · Post by **CPTANT** » Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:49 pm #392667

PR:

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/36562

onleavedontatme · Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:56 pm

We were so close to David contributing and you took it all away

CPTANT · Post by **CPTANT** » Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:04 pm #392670

Kor wrote:We were so close to David contributing and you took it all away

Sorry man, the freeze starts tomorrow.

onleavedontatme · Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:13 pm

What the hell, where did the time go

CPTANT · Post by **CPTANT** » Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:02 pm #392691

updated the PR, default is now sing but at high energies it spawns a tesla ball.

CPTANT · Post by **CPTANT** » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:50 pm #392771

aaaaaand it's gone.

Be glad this wasn't David's first exposure to contributing.

Swagbringer · Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:17 pm

I prefer being able to salvage the station from a singularity bomb, on Metastation you just need to wall of engineering hallway, dorms, and sometimes the theatre section. Its fun trying to keep the station falling apart as an engineer.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:24 pm #392795

Swagbringer wrote:Its fun trying to keep the station falling apart as an engineer.

either a freudian slip in text form or brilliant ambiguity
cannot tell

ShadowDimentio · Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:43 pm

>Closed

Imagine my shock

Contributing is a joke.

Post by **oranges** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:11 am #392906

contributing things that contradict my design vision is a joke

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:15 am #392908

you're a fucking fruit you don't even have eyes how the fuck can you have "vision"

Poorman · Post by **Poorman** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:20 am #392950

i drunk posted this thread and forgot about it

still, bring back singularity. it's the only generator for ss13

Poorman · Post by **Poorman** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:26 am #392952

Kor wrote: If people really want the "round is over no matter what" deathball back we could just make that the default meltdown option again.

alright i have never once seen anyone do anything outside of a shuttle call if the SM explodes

maybe if this were 2012 and rounds lasted longer, and people wanted to put more effort into every round but literally NOBODY wants to spend the time to fix the mess the SM makes

at least with the singulo it was a spectacle, it was exciting. the SM just goes BOOM and a shuttle gets called.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:27 am #392954

It's a very rare and niche kind of fun. Like when you're the only guy with a spacesuit and you load up the dozen people stranded near Arrivals into a locker and pull them as fast as possible across the void to Escape before they all die. Or you get into that situation where it greets you at the end of a hall and you have just enough time to run down that hall as it chases you while screaming SHIT SHIT SHIT SHIT in your head.

Poorman · Post by **Poorman** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:31 am #392956

tbh i think that the CE should be able to pick the engine they want to setup from the round start. it could be some kind of preference option set in the character select screen that changes the starting setup

or it could be a random setup

or we could put the singulo back on box, the SM on meta, and the tesla on delta

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:57 pm #393083

Poorman wrote:tbh i think that the CE should be able to pick the engine they want to setup from the round start. it could be some kind of preference option set in the character select screen that changes the starting setup

As interesting as this idea is, it sounds like a nightmare procedurally to make map spawn depend on a character role preference.

Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:58 pm

cedarbridge wrote:
Poorman wrote:tbh i think that the CE should be able to pick the engine they want to setup from the round start. it could be some kind of preference option set in the character select screen that changes the starting setup
As interesting as this idea is, it sounds like a nightmare procedurally to make map spawn depend on a character role preference.

Probably not much harder than placing ruins in space or lavaland actually

RandomMarine · Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:04 pm

It would be easy to do but a bitch to maintain as different contributors keep touching the maps.

onleavedontatme · Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:04 pm

ShadowDimentio wrote:>Closed

Imagine my shock

Contributing is a joke.

>when david complains coders dont listen to feedback it actually means "coders don't do what I personally want"

Imagine my shock

Durkel · Post by **Durkel** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:46 pm #393112

Kor wrote:
ShadowDimentio wrote:snip

There's plenty of prs with a skewed balance of votes in either direction that were either merged or closed anyway. You know more than anyone that someone clicking on a shitty emoji on the git means nothing. Don't be a chumbis, kor.

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:48 pm #393113

FIGHT
FIGHT
FIGHT
FIGHT
FIGHT
FIGHT
FIGHT

onleavedontatme · Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:51 pm

I'm not saying I care about the emojis very much, just ironic that the pretend populists like Shadowdimentio railing about the ignored players will in turn ignore them/their votes/etc as soon as they stop agreeing.

Post by **oranges** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:07 pm #393118

don't reply to this bait thread kor, let me do it

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:07 pm #393119

oranges wrote:don't reply to this bait thread kor, let me do it

oranges knows a lot about baiting. He's a master at it.

Post by **oranges** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:21 pm #393124

Anonmare wrote:
oranges wrote:don't reply to this bait thread kor, let me do it
oranges knows a lot about baiting. He's a master at it.

I baited you

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:24 pm #393126

oranges wrote:
Anonmare wrote:
oranges wrote:don't reply to this bait thread kor, let me do it
oranges knows a lot about baiting. He's a master at it.
I baited you

You fell for my jape

ShadowDimentio · Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:07 pm

Durkel wrote:There's plenty of prs with a skewed balance of votes in either direction that were either merged or closed anyway. You know more than anyone that someone clicking on a shitty emoji on the git means nothing. Don't be a chumbis, kor.

This, it doesn't matter what the merits are of a PR the only thing that matters is "does a maintainer like it?". If yes, PR is merged. If no, PR is closed. Lets not pretend anything else is or ever has been a factor.

onleavedontatme · Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:11 pm

Never gonna forgive Durkel for giving shadowdimentio a post to latch on to that lets him dodge the point

oranges wrote:don't reply to this bait thread kor, let me do it

But it's fun!

Post by **Arianya** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:28 pm #393152

It's almost like more goes into judging a PR then just the upvotes/downvotes, but maintainers, human beings with minds, weigh those upvotes/downvotes in mind when considering a PR, especially one with not much code implication but a heavy implication on the round itself.

(Except oranges, he's just a malfunctioning clockwork orange)