Nuke Ops Whitelist Based on Traitor Greentext

[LNGLY]

Everyone knows that more nukeops rounds are ruined by new players than any other. But having a time-based whitelist doesn't really make sense; you can start the game for the first time, play for an hour and quit for a month, return, then any month-long whitelist will be open to you, despite you being no more knowledgeable than any other newbie. Quite a bit less, actually, because you had a month to forget all that you might've learned.

There are two options for a nukeops whitelist, then: playtime-based whitelisting, which is not ideal because you can play for 500 hours and it won't necessarily make you better at nuke ops if you're still a shitty antagonist, and greentext-based whitelisting. That is, you whitelist people who have a certain amount of successful traitor rounds.

Greentext-based whitelisting would do two things. It would ensure the people playing nukeops are actually competent antagonists, and it would give greentext an actual purpose - some tangible reason to do your objectives instead of whatever you feel like.

[Jordie0608]

I believe the server host has said he doesn't want any whitelisting of this nature and that sentiment is generally supported by a majority of players, admins and coders; that said I guess you could call the security and heads restriction a whitelist, however i'd be better described as a time-based blacklist.

[Lo6a4evskiy]

>trying to give greentext a purpose

no, for the love of god, no

[Steelpoint]

The best idea you'll get is to make Nuke Ops (and certain high level antags) use the time-based blacklist that Security/Command/Silicon's are subjected to.

As I've said prior, we make players wait a week to play Security, yet anyone can play Nuke Ops right of the bat.

[Erbbu]

Yeah agreed with Steelpoint, that is pretty silly.

[Lo6a4evskiy]

You can't get experience at nuke ops without actually playing nuke ops though.

Basic knowledge of the game is good and all, but people who go antag without knowing basic functionality should be subject to antagban anyway.

[QuartzCrystal]

I know it's unrealistic, but if you're playing this and you haven't read/skimmed the wiki for all the antag roles, you're doing it wrong.

Anyways, there's also the hilarity from a noob nuke op totally fucking up.

[cedarbridge]

You can't get experience at nuke ops without actually playing nuke ops though.

Basic knowledge of the game is good and all, but people who go antag without knowing basic functionality should be subject to antagban anyway.

When it comes down to it, nukeops are just (usually loud) off-station traitors in team format with more guns and the same objective every time. There's a lot of things that make a lot more sense about nukeops after playing even basic traitor roles first. A lot of it boils down to just combat skill which comes through experience and that sort of experience really only comes from playing traitor or playing sec.

[Stickymayhem]

Malf needs the same timer as AI

[cedarbridge]

Malf needs the same timer as AI

Malf also needs to be tied to AI preference. Non-AI players playing Malf is a large part of the reason so many malf AIs end up so terrible. A malf AI should never tell their borg(s) "OH GOD I'VE NEVER BEEN AI BEFORE!!!1" That and players metagaming default named AIs or unknown AI names as malf. I'm surprised nobody has meta'd Sticky's goto Malf AI name yet.

[Lo6a4evskiy]

When it comes down to it, nukeops are just (usually loud) off-station traitors in team format with more guns and the same objective every time. There's a lot of things that make a lot more sense about nukeops after playing even basic traitor roles first. A lot of it boils down to just combat skill which comes through experience and that sort of experience really only comes from playing traitor or playing sec.

I couldn't disagree more.

[cedarbridge]

When it comes down to it, nukeops are just (usually loud) off-station traitors in team format with more guns and the same objective every time. There's a lot of things that make a lot more sense about nukeops after playing even basic traitor roles first. A lot of it boils down to just combat skill which comes through experience and that sort of experience really only comes from playing traitor or playing sec.

I couldn't disagree more.

A very well outlined rebuttal.

[Lo6a4evskiy]

You just said that nuke ops are just like traitors.

Only they're in team, only they're a lot more heavily equipped, only they have tons of unique equipment, only they have a completely different relation to the shuttle and AI and frankly anyone due to them being a lot more recognizable, only they're not part of the crew, only playing as them is completely different from playing traitor, INCLUDING combat.

[Steelpoint]

What Cedar is trying to say is that experience and skills acquired from playing a Traitor (and playing the game in general) translate over very well to a Nuke Op. While you do have access to more unique equipment and are in a very different circumstance, the same skillsets apply.

[Lo6a4evskiy]

Not unless you're doing "stealthy murder captain lone wolf" kind of thing.

[cedarbridge]

Not unless you're doing "stealthy murder captain lone wolf" kind of thing.

Your average non-traitor/non-sec will typically be less robust with weaponry. This is factual based on the ways and opportunities to practice those skills. So it functionally plays out the same as nuke ops or as a normal traitor. Give me a traitor that's fired a gun before or used an esword over an assistant that hasn't any day of the week. Non-ops antag roles (the ones that feature combat) will prepare you more for being an op than not. There's really only 3 things that an op needs to be able to do and being a traitor with a revolver covers most of them.

1) Find a target that may or may not know you're hostile.
2) Shoot the target.
3) Not get shot by sec.

This applies the same to nukes ops as it does to a murderboning traitor with an ebow/esword except that one is expected to stay on the station until the shuttle is called and the other is expected to take the disk and leave.

[Lo6a4evskiy]

Traitoring usually comes up to shooting one unarmed target twice with revolver and drag them away, at least if you want to complete objectives. Security has nonlethal approach. Ops are a different matter. You will need to kill a lot of targets while trying not to shoot your buddies, your weapons work differently, you will have mech and borg which you will need to support.

I've been with guys who were traitors a lot but don't have a lot of nuke ops experience. They ask for double esword and lose it to disarm somewhere along the way.

Finally, I don't want to complete objectives as traitor, because that's just not fun.

[srifenbyxp]

What the balls is the actual definition for whitelist? What like the opposite of black list where no one likes you? If anything 1st timers should at least have a "count-time" of 3 for any other starting single based antag like traitor, ling or even a wizard. To at least get the retard in the mind set of "I tried that and got dunked, now I know what not to do! Anything in to regards of starting team based antag like cult/rev/Gangster should follow the rule.

There's a difference of thinking that it may work rather than you knowing it will work.

[cedarbridge]

Finally, I don't want to complete objectives as traitor, because that's just not fun.

Are we even part of the same conversation anymore?

[Lo6a4evskiy]

If you want private conversation, PM me, I personally am posting in the thread labeled "Nuke Ops Whitelist Based on Traitor Greentext".

[Redblaze3000]

No Because I only go after greentext if its a easy objective like kill or swap docs. Anyother objective unless I'm someone that can steal shit and not get questioned I'll fuck the objectives and go do interesting shit with my gear or do my job. this also only encourages a play to win mentality that we do not need.