Expensive Armor from Protolathe

[Scones]

Alright, it's bothered me for some time that the late-game scientist's uniform is always the welding gas mask, NVG/NV-MedHud, a bag of holding, and a labcoat.
While the labcoat is distinctive, I've always sort of wanted something that would be expensive to make and probably sub-par in the face of other armors/hardsuits, but still a sort of completion piece for when Science gets armed. They become the station's premium arms dealers and while they do have the greatest armor of all in the form of exosuits, I was thinking something more along the line of a hardsuit/special armor vest.

It might be a horrible idea, but I'm curious what other people think of it.

[Spacemanspark]

Alright, it's bothered me for some time that the late-game scientist's uniform is always the welding gas mask, NVG/NV-MedHud, a bag of holding, and a labcoat.
While the labcoat is distinctive, I've always sort of wanted something that would be expensive to make and probably sub-par in the face of other armors/hardsuits, but still a sort of completion piece for when Science gets armed. They become the station's premium arms dealers and while they do have the greatest armor of all in the form of exosuits, I was thinking something more along the line of a hardsuit/special armor vest.

It might be a horrible idea, but I'm curious what other people think of it.

Paracode actually has this. It's called 'Power Armour', and it gives you a HUGE speed boost, on top of space protection. I can't remember what it did in terms of defense. It requires a cell battery that you charge/ replace occasionally.
If it comes in a lockbox, this shouldn't be too much of a problem.

[Wizardjenkins66]

Armored vests made from whatever materials mining brings?

[Scones]

Paracode actually has this. It's called 'Power Armour', and it gives you a HUGE speed boost, on top of space protection. I can't remember what it did in terms of defense. It requires a cell battery that you charge/ replace occasionally.
If it comes in a lockbox, this shouldn't be too much of a problem.

My only worry as to adding something that is a hardsuit+ is that it may make the Science squad a little -too- potent when they roll out to deal with those fucks who kept making diamond floor tiles

[Spacemanspark]

Paracode actually has this. It's called 'Power Armour', and it gives you a HUGE speed boost, on top of space protection. I can't remember what it did in terms of defense. It requires a cell battery that you charge/ replace occasionally.
If it comes in a lockbox, this shouldn't be too much of a problem.

My only worry as to adding something that is a hardsuit+ is that it may make the Science squad a little -too- potent when they roll out to deal with those fucks who kept making diamond floor tiles

I think the defense is purposely kept at a low number for it, to keep it balanced. Basically you have sanic speed and space protection as long as you have a charged power cell.

[Scones]

Paracode actually has this. It's called 'Power Armour', and it gives you a HUGE speed boost, on top of space protection. I can't remember what it did in terms of defense. It requires a cell battery that you charge/ replace occasionally.
If it comes in a lockbox, this shouldn't be too much of a problem.

My only worry as to adding something that is a hardsuit+ is that it may make the Science squad a little -too- potent when they roll out to deal with those fucks who kept making diamond floor tiles

I think the defense is purposely kept at a low number for it, to keep it balanced. Basically you have sanic speed and space protection as long as you have a charged power cell.

100% down for it to give huge power in that regard but eat through battery like a motherfucker. Cyborg chargers should work for it.

[cedarbridge]

Paracode actually has this. It's called 'Power Armour', and it gives you a HUGE speed boost, on top of space protection. I can't remember what it did in terms of defense. It requires a cell battery that you charge/ replace occasionally.
If it comes in a lockbox, this shouldn't be too much of a problem.

My only worry as to adding something that is a hardsuit+ is that it may make the Science squad a little -too- potent when they roll out to deal with those fucks who kept making diamond floor tiles

I think the defense is purposely kept at a low number for it, to keep it balanced. Basically you have sanic speed and space protection as long as you have a charged power cell.

100% down for it to give huge power in that regard but eat through battery like a motherfucker. Cyborg chargers should work for it.

I can't get excited about a hyperzine spessuit that requires constant recharging. I mean, if this were the case, I'd cut out the middle man and just get a space suit and build a chem dispenser.

[srifenbyxp]

Power armor? We have mechs fuck that, now a Bio Armor like goon has is worth it. No speed reduction and protects against chems with the standard defense of a regular sec armor.

[Erbbu]

Science is already breddy OP. Do they really need even more powerful tools?

[Steelpoint]

Yeah, lets give Security a deactivated Riot Suppression Mech, armed with Flashbang launchers and Taser guns.

Science has a lot of offensive tools but very few defensive tools, I think that should stay that way.

[fleure]

I always kinda liked the labcoat look when wielding an advanced egun.

[cedarbridge]

Yeah, lets give Security a deactivated Riot Suppression Mech, armed with Flashbang launchers and Taser guns.

Because that's never backfired before.

[Jacough]

Armored vests made from whatever materials mining brings?

> Uraniaum plated vest
> It gives you radiation poisoning and causes mutations
> Plasma vest
> Creates a cloud of plasma around you like you're Pig-Pen and makes you highly flammable

[Cipher3]

Power armour is always awful and please no.

Some sweet armored leather jacket style stuff would be nice though.

Armored vests made from whatever materials mining brings?

> Uraniaum plated vest
> It gives you radiation poisoning and causes mutations
> Plasma vest
> Creates a cloud of plasma around you like you're Pig-Pen and makes you highly flammable

RIP Rapid Prototyping Port

[Timbrewolf]

Science is already breddy OP. Do they really need even more powerful tools?

This.

OP's "complaint" is:

"Sometimes at the end of the round I have a really awesome item science made in almost every slot, but there are still slots I have that don't have a really awesome and potentially overpowered item in them. Can we have more cool shit to lord over everyone else? y/y?"

Like, most of the stuff you just listed you wont even use as a scientist. What good is a welding gas mask for you? You don't go out and repair the station or fix the piping. Likewise NVG/Health Hud? The most use you're ever going to get out of that is trying to avoid sick people.

You're complaining that your labcoat isn't OP enough, and suggesting that you get a super space suit to wear, when you work in a department that builds GIANT MECHS.

Science players are greedy as hell holy shit stop.

[qwert]

Power armor? We have mechs fuck that, now a Bio Armor like goon has is worth it. No speed reduction and protects against chems with the standard defense of a regular sec armor.

But turned on power armor on paradise cant be replaced ( the clown cant loot ye/ the xenos scrath their heads, trying to think, how to remove it )

[Spacemanspark]

Power armor? We have mechs fuck that, now a Bio Armor like goon has is worth it. No speed reduction and protects against chems with the standard defense of a regular sec armor.

But turned on power armor on paradise cant be replaced ( the clown cant loot ye/ the xenos scrath their heads, trying to think, how to remove it )

I've had to remove power armor from several idiot scientists as a security officer, usually having to dodge advanced laser guns aimed at me.

[Fragnostic]

You're complaining that your labcoat isn't OP enough, and suggesting that you get a super space suit to wear, when you work in a department that builds GIANT MECHS.

Science players are greedy as hell holy shit stop.

As if Captains don't like to come in and print advanced stuns until the materials run out.
As if any roboticist would be willing to build a mech for any except themselves
As if security isn't scoping out Toxins 24/7 in case they even step outside to deliver it to mining just to perma them
As if Mining was always occupied with people
As if Mining always brought sufficient materials
As if chemistry ever wanted to willingly give a scientist more than 50u of acid
As if assistants don't like breaking into Xenobio and releasing slimes
As if security wasnt obsessed with brigging anyone in a purple stripe labcoat
As if mechs are possible without R&D
As if Cargo doesn't bust open crates while lockboxes can't be EMPd anymore
As if anyone but the AI would be happy to let science in to deconstruct things
As if most of science is fun/rewarding to do without some toys
As if science isn't vacant half the time
As if science hasn't utterly failed before because of low/no electricity
As if all of science is self-sufficient without some initial outside help
As if science is OP

Anyway, armor sounds great. But Botany should be able to make Bio Armor, but that'll probably be nerfed too(RIP deathnettles). Science should be able to make armor too, but here's a catch: RDs reactive teleport armor has to be deconned in order to unlock the armor. Sec should also have some riot mech, seriously. It should fire tear gas, no flashbacks, though. But tear gas, and a mech mounted ballistic/melee shield that knocks people on their ass.

[Malkevin]

Like, most of the stuff you just listed you wont even use as a scientist. What good is a welding gas mask for you? You don't go out and repair the station or fix the piping. Likewise NVG/Health Hud? The most use you're ever going to get out of that is trying to avoid sick people.

Funny thing, when I originally added welding gas masks I was actually thinking about putting them in lockboxes.
Because they were intended for use by Atmos Techs wearing firesuits (although its less useful now they have a very useful, very little downsides Hardsuit), so that they could wear their hard hat and meson with otherwise would have to be swapped for a welding mask or welding goggles.

[Timbrewolf]

RDs reactive teleport armor has to be deconned in order to unlock the armor.

That armor is a traitor objective. Encouraging players to destroy it is a bad idea.

[Fragnostic]

Oops. I forgot. What if this produces a new type of armor that is a traitor objective? And the RD starts with it, too, instead of the reactive teleport armor.

[cedarbridge]

Oops. I forgot. What if this produces a new type of armor that is a traitor objective? And the RD starts with it, too, instead of the reactive teleport armor.

>Roll traitor
>Steal high research and materials requirement armor

And there were no scientists or living miners that day.

[qwert]

The main point of paradise station expensive protolathe armor is, that it puts awesome sprites of niensmthguy in vidyagaem. Even if it would slow you down, give you radiation poisoning and gib you, when you slip on something, this sprite is still fair enough cost for this. It does not need to make spessmens superspessmens and to be precious pearl in collection of every powergamer.

[Steelpoint]

That actually raise's a good point, not everything needs to be uberrobust. This armour could give you good protection, but make you slow as buggery. A invulnerable rock, but a cool looking rock.

[Spacemanspark]

Make it so you only take one step per minute.

[Raven776]

Make it so you only take one step per minute.

Suddenly you've got a captain with a chain of command whipping his assistant horse to drag him from room to room while he dishes out stationary justice.

[iyaerP]

"Faster my steed! No, not into escape! What are you doing?"

And the captain was never seen again.

Super slow armour would die horribly to spesswind. Probably need to be spacewind-immune. Which magboots should already do, but don't.


For armour, why not be able to make slime-proof armour so that people other than the ones who raised the slimes can go into the pens? Give it like 10-20 melee resist and maybe some thermal protection as well.

[Malkevin]

Those are called bio suits

[qwert]

Those are called bio suits

They are resistant to awful zap attack/ glomps/ this abomination feeding on you?

[Fragnostic]

Oops. I forgot. What if this produces a new type of armor that is a traitor objective? And the RD starts with it, too, instead of the reactive teleport armor.

>Roll traitor
>Steal high research and materials requirement armor

And there were no scientists or living miners that day.

RD starts with it in locker, as opposed to the reactive teleport OP armor.
Shoot locker, emag locker, C4 locker, whack the RD if there is one and steal.

[Fragnostic]

Make it so you only take one step per minute.

Hold in hand, run, equip when needed.
WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW?

[dezzmont]

Science needs to not have the best of everything even when it fully develops. In fact it should be the opposite. They should at most be able to make gimmick based copies of the signature gear other departments have, and focus on having cool utility toys rather than weapons, healing, or engineering tools.

Reactive teleportation armor is the perfect armor for research because it is goofy shit that doesn't just out and out make you invulnerable but is more like a neat toy some psychopath would make, that has a potential non-standard use. Same with stuff like the cold guns. That or science should be required to specialize. It isn't hard for an RD to get all the research up very quickly if he knows what he is doing.

The last thing science should be is "All my toys are better than yours."

Also, only a scrub complains about the cap taking all the materials printing randomly. If you are capable of making anything requiring hard to obtain materials it should be effortless to get the captain to buzz off if he really is that much of a troll. Metal is easy to replace, as is glass. Mining should be your bitch if you know what you are doing and if there are no miners it is easy enough to get the access for a scientist. Sec doesn't arrest people in labcoats for no reason and if they do you should report that. Science is also pretty self sufficient. Half your problems were you complaining that assholes can ruin your day (Duh) and the other half is "Bluh bluh bluh I am an unrobust scrub."

Sometimes depending on patch its possible to finish all research without leaving science. I am actually checking the wiki guide right now to see if it is still possible.

[Fragnostic]

I play on Badger, a server where it is quite normal to see no engineers, no miners, no AI, no HoP/Captain to change your access for deconnable stuff, no other scientists/roboticists, yet an excess of assistants. And after five minutes of this, the shuttle is usually called by the CMO or something.

As a scientist, I've had to set up the engine for power, hack into tech storage for deconnable stuff, steal the bartenders shotty, build an autolathe and make shotgun slugs to shoot the miner lockers open for a pickaxe and a satchel, hack into EVA for a space suit, go outside and mine, smelt that fukken ore, get the highest possible levels...just so I can hear Captain Urist McInconsiderate is on deck!
[Science]Urist McInconsiderate says," Hey, does R&D have advanced eguns yet???"
[Science]Lone Scientist says, "Um...yes, sir. We...uhh...we do."
Then they zip in wordlessly and print enough advanced energy guns to arm the population of Sybil on a good day.
Maybe it's my fault for wanting to be self-sufficient and expecting to be rewarded or acknowledged for it. It's really stupid of me to not just wait for people to hand me things like I should do. But even through so much trouble, I still don't get some sort of nice reward I can work towards that isn't in a lockbox.

I was thinking some sort of skin-tight suit made of metallic, reflective material that provides the fire protection of a fire suit, but has no speed penalty and provides a little laser protection. To print, it could cost metal and a little silver and diamond. Nothing OP, just thought that in the future we would be able to harness the power of flame retardant clothing with good mobility.

[dezzmont]

Ok yeah. I am sorry, I am used to Sibyl where the station is a bit more lively and you have more people in science to defend yourself from abusers. What you want in interesting as an exosuit, a lot better than what I thought. Fits science really well. Perhaps make it amplify some negative effect to emphasize the gimmicky nature of R&D.

Do note however a good R&D can be entirely self sufficient in research, if not development.

[Spacemanspark]

Make it so you only take one step per minute.

Hold in hand, run, equip when needed.
WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW?

Make it take ten seconds to equip, and you have to sit still.

[Zsword]

I wouldn't mind seeing a sort of crappy, basic 'Advanced Armor' which is better than the default 'vest' that Sec spawns in, has a decent amount of everything, but isn't as good as the Dedicated armors (Riot, bulletproof, and Ablative) but protects from everything a little bit more than the Security Default.

Also slows you down a little bit. More than the Riot set, but not a giant margin that makes you go 'oh god whyyyy'. I'm, thinking like, erm... 20-30% resistance to the 'common' damage types provided by the Three Dedicated Armor types? (Which I think are 40%+ each? While the Security Vest is... 20%?) It shouldn't be better than the Head of Security's or the Captains armor though. Probably need Bluespace research and Diamonds, and works by 'sending the energy of the blows to a pocket dimension of endlessness.' Maybe some Silver and glass as well.

Oh, and being a blue space item, can't put a blue space item in it's Suit Slot, or put it into the Blue Space Belt/Backpack without the usual consequences.

[whodaloo]

I wouldn't mind seeing a sort of crappy, basic 'Advanced Armor' which is better than the default 'vest' that Sec spawns in, has a decent amount of everything, but isn't as good as the Dedicated armors (Riot, bulletproof, and Ablative) but protects from everything a little bit more than the Security Default.

Also slows you down a little bit. More than the Riot set, but not a giant margin that makes you go 'oh god whyyyy'. I'm, thinking like, erm... 20-30% resistance to the 'common' damage types provided by the Three Dedicated Armor types? (Which I think are 40%+ each? While the Security Vest is... 20%?) It shouldn't be better than the Head of Security's or the Captains armor though. Probably need Bluespace research and Diamonds, and works by 'sending the energy of the blows to a pocket dimension of endlessness.' Maybe some Silver and glass as well.

Oh, and being a blue space item, can't put a blue space item in it's Suit Slot, or put it into the Blue Space Belt/Backpack without the usual consequences.

Why on earth would science need armor that's better than sec's? And even if it was behind a lock box or something, having science being able to produce armor is, in my opinion, a really bad precedent. Cargo can already order the basic armors, I'm not really convinced we need MORE armor diversity, considering stuff like the bullet proof vest is already underused.

[Zsword]

So that they can give sec the improved armor of course. I did some research, and it turns out that Sec armor actually cuts the major damages in almost half, and after a little thought, figured that maybe giving a high end research, diamond using armor just a flat, 30% resistance to (almost) everything would be kinda neat. Almost everythign being like, Laser, Bullet, Bludgeon, Energy, Radiation, Bombs... this would make it very inferior to most (all) dedicated armors, but still a nice cookie for someone who's a little paranoid. (and aren't we all?)

[cedarbridge]

Theoretically, this is all meant for sec in the first place. In practice, sec doesn't pay any attention until its printed and the CRACKDOWN starts.

[Gun Hog]

Any armor from Science I would recommend to be power armor. They would slow the user to a crawl until given a power cell / had fuel added. Let the resistances, abilities, and properties of the armor be determined by modules. Replace metal with plasteel in the construction of the armor, as it requires a conscious effort to acquire large amounts of it. Combat related modules could be lockboxed for making them require cooperation from the Command or Security departments. You could just as easily do the same for medical and engineering based modules..you would need the CE to unlock specialized tools, or the CMO to approve medical modules. That will greatly reduce their commonality as much as lockboxes did for weapons produced by Science.

[Scones]

Looking back, it may not be the best idea ever. It is -good- that the department who builds exosuits and capped bombs and teleports whatever/wherever they want isn't the best of all possible things

But I guess I really dislike current armor options (Ablative/'armor'/hardsuit) and want something more in line with the Reactive Teleporter armor: Somewhat effective but also fairly dangerous, and possessing that distinct 'experimental tech' feel

[Timbrewolf]

Science needs to have more things taken away from it and given to other departments, if anything.

Cargo is the only other department that can even hope to hold a candle to Science's potential to just shit out a bunch of better-than-everything-else items in every category. And it's really not even worth comparing a bunch of people running around in armor with shotguns to two or three exo's on the loose.

Adding some kind of tech workshop to Engineering, moving Xenobio over to medical and having them craft some kind of symbiote living weaponry, and turning more of science's shit into mad-science doomsday type shit.

[dezzmont]

That we really need is more interdepartmental dependency.

Yes yes yes yes yes.

However I have no idea how to do that.

Science should probably control less means of production and have more material reliance on other departments like botany to make high end items. There are even chemicals that never got used for this purpose like glycerol. The research network could reach all departments even if they don't control everything. For example moving robotics down to engineering, but giving engineers no real way to research. This requires them to get more toys they can produce from the protolathe so that its still a full job though.

Departmental protolathes was another idea way back.

[Malkevin]

Once upon a time I was planning to add a protolathe to cargo, as they are the distribution department

[dezzmont]

Once upon a time I was planning to add a protolathe to cargo, as they are the distribution department

How hard would it be to add access tags to all equipment made from the lathe, and then placing one in each department?

[Malkevin]

Not that hard overall

[Fragnostic]

See, while there is very little departmental dependency of Science with other divisions, I don't know how that would work in Badger, where Sciecne is vacant every other round. Sometimes I will need more acid, so I go to Chemistry but that is vacant too. Sometimes people are helpful, sometimes they aren't, and the only way to get acid would be to break in. That stops research, which fucks with Robotics.

I wouldn't mind lockboes having some sort of department dependent access, like CMO, chemists, and MDs can open lockboxes with rapid syringe guns. And Engineers and Atmos Techs can open welding gas mask lockboxes.

Science as a department needs to GIVE more than it already TAKES. I feel bad when I empty the ore redemption machine because Mining is satisfying to do, but risky and I can only give the miner something useful in return if they give me a good bit of diamond. Other departments need to rely on Science so there is a mutual relationship. Badger players try to do this, such as building the CMO an Odysseus, or a miner a Ripley(oh lord it feels shitty to give them such a shitty mech), or the HoS/Captain a Phazon. Circuit boards should never be lockboxed, because they require some assembly to be useful, so there's your counterplay.

[dezzmont]

Well here is the way I see it.

Everyone has baseline dependancy on security to prevent total breakdown, engineering for power, and in most cases cargo for replacement supplies, in this case metal and glass deliveries from the shuttle or mining up till you decide to just build yourself an autolathe to recycle your own materials. Power isn't up and there is no captain or HoP to order the bare minimum crates you need? Too bad, so sad, but you will probably have bigger issues in this case than research as this would cripple pretty much any department. That should be enough to do the baseline job. Science with this minimal amount of co-operation is able to actually fully or nearly fully research tech, which they can use to do things like make chemical dispensers for themselves anyway assuming they were smart and worked on making those before working with the acid for other research.

After that we currently have a dependancy on advanced minerals for a lot of the really interesting stuff. This is poor for a couple of reasons. A big one is that even baseline mechs and some inventions already are replacements or otherwise too strong. There is also little incentive for science to share their splendors with the ship if only mining is co-operating with them. And it also creates bottlenecks, as mining is not a popular job . It also is pretty unexciting for other production jobs like engineering, virology, chemistry, botany, or genetics, up to making it so science is the job more suited towards expanding the ship, not engineering, due to them having exclusive access to the ability to craft machines. A diversification of source materials would allow more tech to be gated behind unique extra-departmental resources, bringing science into greater circulation with the rest of the ship, while at the same time helping prevent a mining bottleneck. No miners? Well it looks like you will need to work mostly with plastics and biotech with the help of chemistry and botany. Engineering could due with having their own unique resource, possibly based on the singulo, possibly based on lathes, to provide to science as well in this hypothetical system.

The argument circiutboards require assembly is a non-argument by the way. Science has the ability to assemble machines solo, and you misused the term counterplay. And other departments don't rely on science more because science would have little incentive to give anything to them. Saying science needs more departments reliant on them is ridiculous. You could make it so engineering absolutely needs rigs, but what the hell could engineering give science? The server used to have an extremely powerful science team on which the medical staff was entirely dependent and it really proved how bad an idea this was. Science basically ate Medical entirely because they had access to all their best tools. Why call a doctor when chemistry genuinely is better at healing than them?

Science already has plenty to offer other people. That isn't the problem at all. they can make everything other departments have independently of them with no outside aid. Science is pretty much entirely self sufficient outside power and metal. Science needs incentive to offer things to other people, and incentive to take things from a diverse range of people. Engineers fix everything and can upgrade things (allegedly), security protects everyone, medical heals everyone, and logistics feeds and supplies everyone. What does science generally do? Hunker down and research themselves a ton of cool toys because no one offers them anything they can't do themselves after 10 minutes work.

[Malkevin]

Actually I think science can be fully independent, with slimes producing plasma sheets for pacmans, and metal sheets

[dezzmont]

I am not fully up to date on slimes, but yeah then it sounds like no one really has any right to complain about science needing acid or metal at this point, or outside resources. You can now officially build a self contained station from within science regardless of if you have engiener or miner participation.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think they are that Op save for mechs. It just is that research and production jobs like botany, scientist really do not add much to the station and don't interact with the round much at all, which sucks.