Harshness as a motivator

A place to record your ideas for the game.

Moderators: MisterPerson, Code Maintainers

User avatar
confused rock
 
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:18 am
Byond Username: The unloved rock

Harshness as a motivator

Postby confused rock » Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:05 am #460587

I think one of the reasons greytide is so rampant is that there are no threats outside antags, and the few threats there are, being a dick will help protect you from. I feel like the main way to resolve this would be to add more threats to the station that will require assistance from other crewmembers to solve- things like appendicitis, maybe minor diseases that require more effort to cure so nobody is motivated to help the asshole who spaced the janitor's cart. So far, however, the only idea I have is to rework how hunger works and make it so the only consistent food sources are cargo and the chef- if you're being a shit covering the hallways in pun pun, you might not be given the right to eat, so you might not want to be the shit covering the halls in pun pun. If cloning cost something, then people might stop and think "is this guy a productive enough member of the station to be worth spending on?"

What do you think of these ideas? do you have any other thoughts on possible threats to put in place?

I was also considering reworking the research station space ruin/ ghost role to use new ideas of scarcity like this, to make it a struggle to decide and to test things on before on a larger whole.
Image
Image
Image
Image



Kryson
 
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:04 pm
Byond Username: Kryson

Re: Harshness as a motivator

Postby Kryson » Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:46 am #460957

I would love to see this. If players are more dependent on other departments they are more likely to interact and RP with those departments.


I would even like to see something like baymed light. If the greytider needed someone to occasionally fix a broken bone or an infected wound he might not smash medbay to pieces and assault the doctors.

I think playing greytide would be MORE interesting if these types of policies were implemented due to the additional challenge.

Zarniwoop
 
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2016 7:47 pm
Byond Username: Dagum

Re: Harshness as a motivator

Postby Zarniwoop » Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:18 pm #461016

Not an RP server. Stop trying to make it one.

User avatar
NoxVS
In-Game Admin
 
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:43 pm
Location: Maintenance
Byond Username: NoxVS

Re: Harshness as a motivator

Postby NoxVS » Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:47 pm #461020

We can port Baymed once we have more competent medical players. The other day I had three people in medical all manage to fuck up revival surgery after I gave them step by step instructions on what to do. If we add baymed, a broken limb would just last the whole shift to the point where it’s easier to just die and be cloned.

Actionb
 
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 8:51 am
Byond Username: Actionb

Re: Harshness as a motivator

Postby Actionb » Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:45 pm #461028

The idea of this thread hinges on there being two sides: shitheads and not-shitheads.
What if the medic refuses to treat your appendicitis because they're a shithead.
What if the cook doesn't make you any food because they're a shithead.
What if both sides are shitheads.

Let's face it. This server is about being shittier than the next guy.
Finding a good guy is like finding a diamond in your poop.

User avatar
confused rock
 
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:18 am
Byond Username: The unloved rock

Re: Harshness as a motivator

Postby confused rock » Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:16 pm #461040

Zarniwoop wrote:Not an RP server. Stop trying to make it one.

Adding mechanics to enforce cooperation is the exact opposite of making it an rp server. That’d be adding rules. By your logic, left 4 dead is roleplay heavy.
I do see your point in that it doesn’t matter if everyone is garbage. At minimum, assistants have a lot of free time that they only use to welderbomb people. If assistants had to spend some time not dying, that would change things.
Image
Image
Image
Image

User avatar
BeeSting12
 
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 1:11 am
Location: 'Murica
Byond Username: BeeSting12
Github Username: BeeSting12

Re: Harshness as a motivator

Postby BeeSting12 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:30 pm #461044

For cloning, it would be cool if the cloning pod requires a chemical mixture collectively known as cloning vat juice. It's a mixture of synthflesh, blood, clonexadone, neurine and some rare or difficult to make chemical. The cloning vat juice would be orderable at cargo or made in chemistry, putting a price on cloning random assistant #1289 instead of say, an engineer or doctor who could contribute to the station.

Might even be funnier to separate the chemicals into separate containers so you have to fill them all separately. Not enough synthflesh? Your patient might not have a couple limbs when he pops out. No neurine? Say hello to extreme brain damage. This type of thing would also reinforce the idea that cloning is a prototype and experimental instead of a perfectly working machine ready for the market. Also opens up the floor for traitor activities such as replacing all the blood with sulphuric acid.

In terms of food, vending machines shouldn't be able to 100% satisfy your food. Ideally, each food would have a different nutrition category they fill, some foods multiple categories, and you have to get every nutrition category filled or health issues might arise. ie. Lack of vitamin C would mean scurvy.
Edward Sloan, THE LAW
Melanie Flowers, Catgirl
Borgasm, Cyborg
Spoiler:
OOC: Hunterh98: to be fair sloan is one of the, if not the, most robust folks on tg

DEAD: Schlomo Gaskin says, "sloan may be a faggot but he gets the job done"

DEAD: Rei Ayanami says, "YOU'RE EVERYWHERE WHERE BAD SHIT IS HAPPENING"
DEAD: Rei Ayanami says, "IT'S ALWAYS FUCKING EDWARD SLOAN"
oranges wrote:Bee sting is honestly the nicest admin, I look forward to seeing him as a headmin one day


[2020-05-21 01:21:48.923] SAY: Crippo/(Impala Chainee) "Shaggy Voice - She like... wants to get Eiffel Towered bro!!" (Brig (125, 166, 2))

hows my driving?

User avatar
Lumbermancer
 
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2014 3:40 am
Byond Username: Lumbermancer

Re: Harshness as a motivator

Postby Lumbermancer » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:37 pm #461153

confused rock wrote:I think one of the reasons greytide is so rampant is that there are no threats outside antags.


It's just shit players, nothing more, nothing less. You can't fix it mechanically, trust me, I've tried. People do not care about playing the jobs anymore, just like antags do not care about the objectives.
aka Schlomo Gaskin aka Guru Meditation aka Copyright Alright aka Topkek McHonk aka Le Rouge
Image

User avatar
Screemonster
 
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2014 7:23 pm
Byond Username: Scree

Re: Harshness as a motivator

Postby Screemonster » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:29 pm #461183

NoxVS wrote:If we add baymed, a broken limb would just last the whole shift to the point where it’s easier to just die and be cloned.

this is actually a problem on med-high RP servers where it actually is considerably easier from a mechanical perspective to let the patient die and give them a new body, even when cloning requires biomass

User avatar
Mickyan
Github User
 
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2014 11:59 pm
Byond Username: Mickyan
Github Username: Mickyan

Re: Harshness as a motivator

Postby Mickyan » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:46 pm #461190

So long as taking is easier than asking adding more negative events is just going to make the station go to shit faster

You're not going to curb the tide so long as an assistant is capable of things such as single handedly and reliably gaining access to the captain quarters and secure all access within minutes of the round starting

More opportunities for cooperation is good but it's not going to solve the problem
ImageI play on Manuel as Swanni, the brain-damaged moth.
Be nice to each other.

User avatar
confused rock
 
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:18 am
Byond Username: The unloved rock

Re: Harshness as a motivator

Postby confused rock » Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:17 am #461202

Events, no. Events died when aurorus caelis came in. I'm thinking of something consistent that makes being an assistant hard enough without shitting on people. Hunger would be consistent, but I dunno how balanced it could be without really changing how vending machines work. Mood could definitely help, but currently mood does fuck all and none of what mood does particularly encourages or discourages stuff, all I can think of is the really wonky 'save a life' moodlet. While making mood affect little made it cause less whining when implemented, it makes mood completely ignorable.
Image
Image
Image
Image

User avatar
Ayy Lemoh
 
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:58 pm
Byond Username: Jerry Derpington

Re: Harshness as a motivator

Postby Ayy Lemoh » Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:17 am #461205

Zarniwoop wrote:Not an RP server. Stop trying to make it one.

Good opinion when it comes to medical stuff.

NoxVS wrote:We can port Baymed once we have more competent medical players. If we add baymed, a broken limb would just last the whole shift to the point where it’s easier to just die and be cloned.

Kryson wrote:I would even like to see something like baymed light.

What is it with people wanting to turn damage and medbay from a part of the game which can be dealt with by anyone competent to:
Spoiler:
come on guys step it up we need it to be so that if you're hit in the leg then you'll have internal bleeding in the lungs, minor fractures in your neck, paralysis in your eyes along with blindness, and 50 broken bones inside your brain. If I can get out of medbay in less than one hour then we're doing something fucking wrong. I want this game to be super fucking boring, guys, so I will do whatever it takes to make medbay into a 10 hour long process because someone punched you in the chest ONCE.

This shit reminds me of Duty Calls where if you're hurt then it says BLOODY SCREEN! SO REAL!! Even if you think 'dude of course that's retarded' then you probably want shit that is still retarded such as 'INFECTIONS. GET STABBED ONCE? INFECTED. GONNA TAKE 30 MINUTES OR ONE CLONING SESSION, BTW IM GONNA MAKE THAT A PAIN IN THE ASS TOO SO DON'T YOU WORRY, TO GET OUT OF MEDBAY FOR THAT ONE'


No one plays this fucking server so they can discover why baymed destroys the fun out of anything that isn't serious roleplay which most people here don't ever do. I even did that shit once and I prefer doing medium rp instead of staying in medbay for 5 hours. Baymed and shit does not work on ss13, especially if it's not a HRP server. Go play some fucking arma if you want a realistic medical system or play real baystation instead of trying to get it on /tg/station.

edit: also god forbid an admin wants to do an event with anything baymed related. I have no idea how baystation can have ranged simplemobs work, if they even bother, because getting shot or hit by a real weapon with baymed may as well be a death sentence by actual death or ten hours of being healed in medbay. Do you really want all admin events to be things where it is just a few people roleplaying with each other or all combat requires everyone to carry a healing staff so they can stand a fucking chance?

edit 2: also, full baymed or baymed light, you'd still have better luck playing on a real bay server or a different server in general. Items would have to be rebalanced unless it's a really small thing that could just be ignored. This could take quite a while or your progress on doing this may be reverted and you'll wonder what the point was.
Last edited by Ayy Lemoh on Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:33 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
confused rock
 
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:18 am
Byond Username: The unloved rock

Re: Harshness as a motivator

Postby confused rock » Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:22 am #461207

I never considered baymed. The only part of medbay I've considered would be completely fucking with virology to make it more about curing common diseases than making regen coma (completely blatantly based off how lifeweb handles disease) but then again I am too stupid to put any of my ideas into play.
Image
Image
Image
Image

User avatar
Ayy Lemoh
 
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:58 pm
Byond Username: Jerry Derpington

Re: Harshness as a motivator

Postby Ayy Lemoh » Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:36 am #461212

confused rock wrote:I never considered baymed. The only part of medbay I've considered would be completely fucking with virology to make it more about curing common diseases than making regen coma (completely blatantly based off how lifeweb handles disease) but then again I am too stupid to put any of my ideas into play.

What's your definition of a common disease?

It would be better if they were meant for curing all diseases otherwise some shit would have to be rebalanced (fungal TB/rare random event diseases being overpowered is an example).

User avatar
confused rock
 
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:18 am
Byond Username: The unloved rock

Re: Harshness as a motivator

Postby confused rock » Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:01 am #461219

few things:

-disease shouldn't spread as incredibly easily as it does now, if some guy has a disease it doesn't necessarily mean everyone but the guys in biosuits on internals will get it (though caution should be a good idea).

-outside random events, disease could be caught from more sources, like miasma, but mostly food if you're extremely filthy and don't wash your hands. The guy covering the halls in pun pun will probably get himself sick, and people besides the janitor might want to delimb him since he risks making them ill as well.

-stuff like good meals, spaceallin, orange juice, and rest should be able to fix most diseases unreliably. Not GBS or anything, but you'd more likely be catching more diseases that are stronger than coughing but weaker than fungal TB (shingles?)

-advanced cures would be made more similarly to how viros make the disease itself now, less of the chemistry just making one thing to cure the disease. Said cure may be in limited supply, since diseases would be harder to spread overall.

Just some basic ideas. That'd be a hard rework, but I want to keep it in my memory so once I suck less I can consider doing it. I think changing moodlets would be more feasible for me but I'm not sure how Qman and people in general would feel about that. I think I was away at the time of moods being added/the backlash, I only have vague memories.
Image
Image
Image
Image

User avatar
Mickyan
Github User
 
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2014 11:59 pm
Byond Username: Mickyan
Github Username: Mickyan

Re: Harshness as a motivator

Postby Mickyan » Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:25 am #461222

Sounds like you're thinking of an abstraction of a natural immune system
ImageI play on Manuel as Swanni, the brain-damaged moth.
Be nice to each other.

User avatar
confused rock
 
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:18 am
Byond Username: The unloved rock

Re: Harshness as a motivator

Postby confused rock » Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:04 am #461244

yEaH pretty much I'd port an entire lifeweb but that dies at square one when you realise that includes stats for differing jobs, but diseases might make janitors less sad while making people less nasty. mood is something I'm considering considering now. who would be against it is what I'm thinking on. And if I'm smart enough.
Image
Image
Image
Image

User avatar
Farquaar
 
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:20 am
Location: Somewhere north of Hogtown
Byond Username: Farquaar

Re: Harshness as a motivator

Postby Farquaar » Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:14 am #461245

So if I'm understanding this correctly, you want there to be consequences for dragging corpses around in circles while covered in blood and vomit?

What do you expect people to do? Shower and not drag corpses around? How else will the station become a disgusting mess?

Cik
 
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 2:24 pm
Byond Username: Cik

Re: Harshness as a motivator

Postby Cik » Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:27 am #461250

Zarniwoop wrote:Not an RP server. Stop trying to make it one.


never say this to me or my son ever again

User avatar
confused rock
 
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:18 am
Byond Username: The unloved rock

Re: Harshness as a motivator

Postby confused rock » Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:03 am #461255

I think people should consider being covered in blood as having downsides? That's not my main point, but I think it'd be a good way to make hygiene matter at all.
Image
Image
Image
Image

User avatar
Farquaar
 
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:20 am
Location: Somewhere north of Hogtown
Byond Username: Farquaar

Re: Harshness as a motivator

Postby Farquaar » Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:22 am #461260

confused rock wrote:I think people should consider being covered in blood as having downsides? That's not my main point, but I think it'd be a good way to make hygiene matter at all.

Surely, the rock has gone mad with power

In all seriousness, the fact that a janitor is considered an optional job on a large corporate space station when nearly every institution in the first world has one or more custodians is something to be considered

User avatar
Yakumo_Chen
 
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2015 10:08 pm
Byond Username: Yakumo Chen

Re: Harshness as a motivator

Postby Yakumo_Chen » Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:17 am #462913

confused rock wrote:I think people should consider being covered in blood as having downsides? That's not my main point, but I think it'd be a good way to make hygiene matter at all.

Being covered in blood and piss makes a good excuse to have an intelligent officer arrest you, though.
Image
Image

User avatar
confused rock
 
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:18 am
Byond Username: The unloved rock

Re: Harshness as a motivator

Postby confused rock » Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:38 pm #462976

haha, no
Image
Image
Image
Image

Starker
 
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:52 am
Byond Username: CStarker

Re: Harshness as a motivator

Postby Starker » Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:57 am #463499

confused rock wrote:I think one of the reasons greytide is so rampant is that there are no threats outside antags, and the few threats there are, being a dick will help protect you from. I feel like the main way to resolve this would be to add more threats to the station that will require assistance from other crewmembers to solve- things like appendicitis, maybe minor diseases that require more effort to cure so nobody is motivated to help the asshole who spaced the janitor's cart. So far, however, the only idea I have is to rework how hunger works and make it so the only consistent food sources are cargo and the chef- if you're being a shit covering the hallways in pun pun, you might not be given the right to eat, so you might not want to be the shit covering the halls in pun pun. If cloning cost something, then people might stop and think "is this guy a productive enough member of the station to be worth spending on?"

What do you think of these ideas? do you have any other thoughts on possible threats to put in place?

I was also considering reworking the research station space ruin/ ghost role to use new ideas of scarcity like this, to make it a struggle to decide and to test things on before on a larger whole.


More rigid enforcement of Space Law would end a lot of greytiding.

User avatar
Steelpoint
Github User
 
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:37 pm
Location: The Armoury
Byond Username: Steelpoint
Github Username: Steelpoint

Re: Harshness as a motivator

Postby Steelpoint » Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:00 am #463512

Implement baymed so we can break assistants legs when they start shit.
Image

User avatar
Lumbermancer
 
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2014 3:40 am
Byond Username: Lumbermancer

Re: Harshness as a motivator

Postby Lumbermancer » Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:23 pm #463516

All this shit will work against you.
aka Schlomo Gaskin aka Guru Meditation aka Copyright Alright aka Topkek McHonk aka Le Rouge
Image

User avatar
RobustAndRun
 
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:14 pm
Byond Username: RobustAndRun

Re: Harshness as a motivator

Postby RobustAndRun » Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:43 pm #466802

Lumbermancer wrote:All this shit will work against you.


Return to Ideas

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users