Replace Nuke Op with Operative

A place to record your ideas for the game.

Moderators: MisterPerson, Code Maintainers

Pybro
 
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:27 pm
Byond Username: Pybro

Replace Nuke Op with Operative

Postby Pybro » Sun Dec 07, 2014 6:07 pm #48839

Gonna get right to the point: Give Flu Cops multiple other objectives other than just detonating the station. Detonating the station would still be on the possible objective list, but not always the ONLY objective. The team would get multiple objectives that could be completed by any team member

Objective ideas:

>1. Kill [person], the [person's job]
Obvious.

>2. Steal [item]
Obvious. Item has to be on the shuttle when the round ends.

>3. Retrieve the body of [person], the [person's job]
Puke Socks now start with a box of Syndi Body Bags. These body bags can zip up a corpse like regular ones. However, they are designed with special "Kick the corpse until it fits" technology to allow the Operatives to pick up and carry the body bag in their hands. Or they can just drag the body the old fashioned way. The body has to be on the shuttle when the round ends.

>4. Retrieve the brain of [person], the [person's job]
Obvious. The Operatives start with a De-Braino-O 6000 Simply use it on a person and stand still, and it does the debraining for you!

>5. Retrieve the [documents/files/data disk/whatever] from the chest cavity of [person], the [person's job]
Syndi's start with the D-Chest-O 6000 as as well, which like the De-Brain-O 6000, cuts open the targets chest. The target does NOT know that they have the item in them, however!

>6. Steal the Nuclear Device from the station's vault
Where do you think the Syndicate gets those nukes from?

>7. Detonate the station with a nuclear device
What they do now.

Ideally, the Flu Cops would have several of objectives 1-6 unless they have objective 7.



User avatar
Spacezenegger
 
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2014 2:43 am

Re: Replace Nuke Op with Operative

Postby Spacezenegger » Sun Dec 07, 2014 6:16 pm #48845

I like it. Kinda like how cult doesn't always have the summon nar-sie objective.

User avatar
cedarbridge
 
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 12:24 am
Byond Username: Cedarbridge

Re: Replace Nuke Op with Operative

Postby cedarbridge » Sun Dec 07, 2014 6:21 pm #48849

Pybro wrote:>6. Steal the Nuclear Device from the station's vault
Where do you think the Syndicate gets those nukes from?

The bomb belonged to the syndicate in the first place. That's why they have the code and the captain does not. NT stole the disk and the bomb. The OPs are sent to get it back (by using it on the station)

User avatar
Miauw
 
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:23 am
Byond Username: Miauw62

Re: Replace Nuke Op with Operative

Postby Miauw » Sun Dec 07, 2014 7:14 pm #48858

cedarbridge wrote:
Pybro wrote:>6. Steal the Nuclear Device from the station's vault
Where do you think the Syndicate gets those nukes from?

The bomb belonged to the syndicate in the first place. That's why they have the code and the captain does not. NT stole the disk and the bomb. The OPs are sent to get it back (by using it on the station)

my headartillery is that they stole the nuke and cracked the code, but need the disk.
<wb> For one, the spaghetti is killing me. It's everywhere in food code, and makes it harder to clean those up.

<Tobba> I stared into BYOND and it farted

User avatar
cedarbridge
 
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 12:24 am
Byond Username: Cedarbridge

Re: Replace Nuke Op with Operative

Postby cedarbridge » Sun Dec 07, 2014 7:58 pm #48864

Miauw wrote:
cedarbridge wrote:
Pybro wrote:>6. Steal the Nuclear Device from the station's vault
Where do you think the Syndicate gets those nukes from?

The bomb belonged to the syndicate in the first place. That's why they have the code and the captain does not. NT stole the disk and the bomb. The OPs are sent to get it back (by using it on the station)

my headartillery is that they stole the nuke and cracked the code, but need the disk.

I don't remember where I saw it written down, but the line was that NT stole the bomb and the disk but didn't have the code to make the thing work. (which is a bit subverted when central just kinda mails the station the code in crisis.) This also makes a bit of sense in that the code the operatives have doesn't pair the disk on the station with the bomb on the station. The disk is intended for a totally different bomb which the operatives cart along with them and use to blow up the station.

Pybro
 
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:27 pm
Byond Username: Pybro

Re: Replace Nuke Op with Operative

Postby Pybro » Sun Dec 07, 2014 9:50 pm #48887

Well I'd always just figured CentComm just remotely linked the device and disk together. The entire reason the Syndi's cart around their own nuke is because this one is hacked to accept any NT disk.

Point is, you gotta get nukes from somewhere, and if you're having your "elite" Operatives raiding the station to kill the Chef, CE, Chaplain, steal the the Chaplains Bible and the Captains medals, then you might as well add the nuke to the shopping list, right?

I thought of another objective:

>8. Steal a function Station AI.
Obvious. It allows for space battles.

whodaloo
 
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:49 am
Byond Username: Whodaloo

Re: Replace Nuke Op with Operative

Postby whodaloo » Sun Dec 07, 2014 9:51 pm #48888

I always thought the reason the ops had to steal the disk to nuke the station was to make it look like an accident. Like a really grand act of industrial sabotage, they use the on-board nuke disk to trigger the nuke to mask the fact that operatives were deployed.
On-topic, I'm not really sure how non-nuclear ops would go, as a round. If they get like steal the hypospray as an objective, they swipe it, go to the shuttle, and leave, and then what? Wait for the crew to call the shuttle? While it IS true that currently in nuke ops it's pretty much the standard to call the shuttle as soon as you see the hardsuits, but that wouldn't be the case with the new objectives.
i love public logs
Spoiler:
SAY: Kolt Saudwell/RedMcCloud : Beacuse
SAY: Kolt Saudwell/RedMcCloud : ((im banned))

SAY: Zack Bodast/Logman : Hos
SAY: Zack Bodast/Logman : Can i bang you]
SAY: Zack Bodast/Logman : ]plras
SAY: Zack Bodast/Logman : R; I WROTE THIS SOMG FOR YOU HOS

SAY: Bryce Pax/IcePacks : I THINK I WAS A LITTLE HASTY IN GIVING THE CREW ACCESS TO THE ARMORY

Lusty Xenomorph Maid begins to clean the telescopic baton with the soap...

[Common] Garrett Larson says, "How do i shot pod"

OOC: Zoey Webb/Firecage : WHodaloo, why are you so fucking aggressive against me
OOC: Engineer Donkin/Whodaloo : i have no idea what you're talking about chief
OOC: Zoey Webb/Firecage : Cuck sucking dick wanking piece of cock shit head

User avatar
paprika
Rarely plays
 
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:20 pm
Location: in down bad
Byond Username: Paprka

Re: Replace Nuke Op with Operative

Postby paprika » Sun Dec 07, 2014 10:28 pm #48897

Why not boarding party, operatives could be anything including traitors and DAs, ops is too ambiguous imo. Plus boarding party sounds fun, which nuke op rounds are.
Oldman Robustin wrote:It's an established meme that coders don't play this game.

Pybro
 
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:27 pm
Byond Username: Pybro

Re: Replace Nuke Op with Operative

Postby Pybro » Sun Dec 07, 2014 10:42 pm #48903

Well I was thinking they'd have multiple objective, so it would be steal a hypospray, murder three guys, then steal some dudes corpse.

If nukeops just want to murder until they die, then it'd be similar to traitor as it is now.

If nukeops want to get all their objectives done then leave, it would be in their best interest to get the shuttle called (And that's usually done by causing carnage).

User avatar
lumipharon
 
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:40 am
Byond Username: Lumipharon

Re: Replace Nuke Op with Operative

Postby lumipharon » Sun Dec 07, 2014 10:59 pm #48907

Before the ops have their objectives, it's in their interest to not have the shuttle called. After they have fucked off with their objective, it is no longer in the crew's interest to call the shuttle.

So basically if the shuttle doesn't get called (or gets recalled) before ops die/fuck off, then the crew have no reason to call the shuttle. This could happen because no one is alive to call the shuttle/powersink/dead AI etc.
It's the same as wizards with apprentices that all die, or summon rounds. Just because the antags are dead, the round doesn't end and it can drag on for ages.

whodaloo
 
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:49 am
Byond Username: Whodaloo

Re: Replace Nuke Op with Operative

Postby whodaloo » Sun Dec 07, 2014 11:26 pm #48914

lumipharon wrote:Before the ops have their objectives, it's in their interest to not have the shuttle called. After they have fucked off with their objective, it is no longer in the crew's interest to call the shuttle.

So basically if the shuttle doesn't get called (or gets recalled) before ops die/fuck off, then the crew have no reason to call the shuttle. This could happen because no one is alive to call the shuttle/powersink/dead AI etc.
It's the same as wizards with apprentices that all die, or summon rounds. Just because the antags are dead, the round doesn't end and it can drag on for ages.

This would be my concern as well, but Lumi voiced it better. I think ops having thieving or de-brain objectives in addition to GET DAT FUKKEN DISK might be a good idea, but removing it entirely is removing a win condition for the operatives without replacing it with anything better. Ops are dangerous and jumped upon because they're a real, tangible threat- one op with the disk and a hardsuit can single handedly end the entire round for everyone. The suggested change makes them basically traitors with a slightly different set of uplink items and no crew ID. I'm not a fan.
i love public logs
Spoiler:
SAY: Kolt Saudwell/RedMcCloud : Beacuse
SAY: Kolt Saudwell/RedMcCloud : ((im banned))

SAY: Zack Bodast/Logman : Hos
SAY: Zack Bodast/Logman : Can i bang you]
SAY: Zack Bodast/Logman : ]plras
SAY: Zack Bodast/Logman : R; I WROTE THIS SOMG FOR YOU HOS

SAY: Bryce Pax/IcePacks : I THINK I WAS A LITTLE HASTY IN GIVING THE CREW ACCESS TO THE ARMORY

Lusty Xenomorph Maid begins to clean the telescopic baton with the soap...

[Common] Garrett Larson says, "How do i shot pod"

OOC: Zoey Webb/Firecage : WHodaloo, why are you so fucking aggressive against me
OOC: Engineer Donkin/Whodaloo : i have no idea what you're talking about chief
OOC: Zoey Webb/Firecage : Cuck sucking dick wanking piece of cock shit head

User avatar
miggles
 
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:02 am
Byond Username: Miggles

Re: Replace Nuke Op with Operative

Postby miggles » Mon Dec 08, 2014 2:25 am #48952

no antag should have the debrain objective, ever. its seriously the worst objective in the whole damn game other than stealing research levels.
i dont like the idea of ops having any objective other than nuking the station. stealing and murdering one or two people/things is way too easy, and stealthops would make it even more laughable. some assistant emags into the CMO's office, and runs off never to be seen again. elsewhere 2 people suicide bomb their target and then they fly the ship away and win. ~woo~
dezzmont wrote:I am one of sawrge's alt accounts

dezzmont wrote:sawrge has it right.

Connor wrote:miggles is correct though

whodaloo
 
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:49 am
Byond Username: Whodaloo

Re: Replace Nuke Op with Operative

Postby whodaloo » Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:47 am #48977

miggles wrote:no antag should have the debrain objective, ever. its seriously the worst objective in the whole damn game other than stealing research levels.
i dont like the idea of ops having any objective other than nuking the station. stealing and murdering one or two people/things is way too easy, and stealthops would make it even more laughable. some assistant emags into the CMO's office, and runs off never to be seen again. elsewhere 2 people suicide bomb their target and then they fly the ship away and win. ~woo~

The debrain objective is pretty lame you're right. I just had a funny mental image of a team of five ops capturing some assistant in maint, debraining him, and taking off in their space ship nobody the wiser. Like a human version of Grays.
i love public logs
Spoiler:
SAY: Kolt Saudwell/RedMcCloud : Beacuse
SAY: Kolt Saudwell/RedMcCloud : ((im banned))

SAY: Zack Bodast/Logman : Hos
SAY: Zack Bodast/Logman : Can i bang you]
SAY: Zack Bodast/Logman : ]plras
SAY: Zack Bodast/Logman : R; I WROTE THIS SOMG FOR YOU HOS

SAY: Bryce Pax/IcePacks : I THINK I WAS A LITTLE HASTY IN GIVING THE CREW ACCESS TO THE ARMORY

Lusty Xenomorph Maid begins to clean the telescopic baton with the soap...

[Common] Garrett Larson says, "How do i shot pod"

OOC: Zoey Webb/Firecage : WHodaloo, why are you so fucking aggressive against me
OOC: Engineer Donkin/Whodaloo : i have no idea what you're talking about chief
OOC: Zoey Webb/Firecage : Cuck sucking dick wanking piece of cock shit head

User avatar
Timbrewolf
Rarely plays
 
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:55 am
Byond Username: An0n3

Re: Replace Nuke Op with Operative

Postby Timbrewolf » Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:12 am #48978

The only good debrain objective is when it targets the clown. Otherwise it should never happen.

Regarding canon for the nuke being on station and the disk?
I always figured that the Syndie nuke they have is something they salvaged from some old derelict or space wreck, since they're supposed to be technological underdogs who can't really produce a lot of things. They have stolen an old earth nuke but they don't know how to make the thing work. Nanotrasen DOES know how to make them work, and provides the captain with a nuke disk and stores one on the station in case shit really hits the fan and corporate secrets need to be protected.

In truth there's nothing stopping our current traitors from cooperating like this. They're even given a series of codewords to try to tip eachother off. It speaks to our playerbase's ability to work together that it so rarely ever happens. If you're reading this and you need some tips:

USE THE DAMN NEWSFEEDS. Hardly anyone pays attention to them as is, and if you're creative you can easily create a broadcast that drops a bunch of codewords while appearing innocuous. Likewise, PAY ATTENTION TO THE DAMN NEWSFEEDS. Someone might be posting looking to help you get stuff done out of sheer boredom after completing their own objectives.

I'm a little reluctant to endorse the idea of Space Operatives having a laundry list of objectives vs. standard nuke because it promotes lone wolf tactics and TC hording. What's the functional difference between a bunch of traitors spawning on the station vs. a bunch of syndicate operatives dividing up the list of objectives and then attacking the station? I think the success rate will plummet even further if Ops are charged with completing a bunch of nickel-and-dime objectives vs their standard one big one.
Shed Wolf Numero Uno

NSFW:
Image

User avatar
Steelpoint
Github User
 
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:37 pm
Location: The Armoury
Byond Username: Steelpoint
Github Username: Steelpoint

Re: Replace Nuke Op with Operative

Postby Steelpoint » Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:18 am #48981

I remember a few semi-events where the admins spawned in "nuke ops" and gave them standard traitor objectives. It all ended horribly, (though that might have to do with us not having access to proper op equipment) the Ops are encouraged to split up and act in their own interests towards their goals.
Image

User avatar
Timbrewolf
Rarely plays
 
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:55 am
Byond Username: An0n3

Re: Replace Nuke Op with Operative

Postby Timbrewolf » Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:24 am #48986

Steelpoint wrote:the Ops are encouraged to split up and act in their own interests towards their goals.


At that point it's just a bunch of regular traitors with a common headset frequency.
Shed Wolf Numero Uno

NSFW:
Image

User avatar
Steelpoint
Github User
 
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:37 pm
Location: The Armoury
Byond Username: Steelpoint
Github Username: Steelpoint

Re: Replace Nuke Op with Operative

Postby Steelpoint » Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:27 am #48988

I forgot to say but its a bad idea.

Maybe having them as a Secondary Objective where the Operatives as a whole get a single objective, it does not give greentext but its good for showing off.
Image

mrpain
 
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:32 am
Byond Username: Mrpain666

Re: Replace Nuke Op with Operative

Postby mrpain » Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:27 am #48990

What about "take X hostage" or "take X body"? Might be cool to abduct people.
/vg/station Head Admin

User avatar
miggles
 
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:02 am
Byond Username: Miggles

Re: Replace Nuke Op with Operative

Postby miggles » Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:31 am #48993

@anon
i have no idea where you got the idea that syndicate tech is supposed to be "underdog," almost everything they make is just as good if not better than NT tech
also the canon always was that the nuke disk was syndicate tech that was stolen by NT and your job as an op is to get it back. its that simple, i dont know why anyone would be confused about that.
the station nuke probably works off of blueprints found on the nuke disk itself or some horseshit like that, which is why the nukes are identical. its also why centcom has access to the nuke code, i would assume.

nuke ops is fun because everything is high stakes. if you lose, everyone dies. thats why everyone actually cares when they hear "NUKE OPS" on the radio. it pretty much totally prevents you from having a normal round. any reasonable person at this point wont just ignore everything and go back to work, because 1. there is a very real threat that you could die at any moment, and 2. the round will end soon either way so just going back to work is a waste of time.
there is no end to the nuclear threat until it is 300% confirmed that all the ops are dead and that the nuke disk is for-sure safe. anyone who recalls the shuttle before this point should not be in a position of power.
dezzmont wrote:I am one of sawrge's alt accounts

dezzmont wrote:sawrge has it right.

Connor wrote:miggles is correct though

User avatar
Steelpoint
Github User
 
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:37 pm
Location: The Armoury
Byond Username: Steelpoint
Github Username: Steelpoint

Re: Replace Nuke Op with Operative

Postby Steelpoint » Mon Dec 08, 2014 7:21 am #49004

The in game lore text, that plays when you manually select Nuke Ops as the game, states that the Nuclear Bomb was stolen from Nanotrasen and your job is to infiltrate the station, steal the Nuke Disk, and detonate the bomb on station.
Image

User avatar
Remie Richards
 
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:11 pm
Location: England, UK, Earth, Sol, Milky Way, Local Group, Virgo Supercluster, Known Universe
Byond Username: CrimsonVision

Re: Replace Nuke Op with Operative

Postby Remie Richards » Mon Dec 08, 2014 7:49 am #49007

Code: Select all
/datum/game_mode/nuclear/announce()
   world << "<B>The current game mode is - Nuclear Emergency!</B>"
   world << "<B>A [syndicate_name()] Strike Force is approaching [station_name()]!</B>"
   world << "A nuclear explosive was being transported by Nanotrasen to a military base. The transport ship mysteriously lost contact with Space Traffic Control (STC). About that time a strange disk was discovered around [station_name()]. It was identified by Nanotrasen as a nuclear auth. disk and now Syndicate Operatives have arrived to retake the disk and detonate SS13! Also, most likely Syndicate star ships are in the vicinity so take care not to lose the disk!\n<B>Syndicate</B>: Reclaim the disk and detonate the nuclear bomb anywhere on SS13.\n<B>Personnel</B>: Hold the disk and <B>escape with the disk</B> on the shuttle!"


The text is a bit confusing but basically:
1. Nuke ops steal bomb
2. Nuke ops lose disk
3. Disk ends up on Space Station 13
4. Nuke ops want the disk back
私は完璧

soulgamer
 
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 9:21 am
Byond Username: Soulgamergod

Re: Replace Nuke Op with Operative

Postby soulgamer » Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:37 am #49019

Disk most likely contains the actual software that is used to detonate the nuke. However this software has a nigh-unbreakable encryption on it that requires the code so the software can be decrypted and used. Shortly before the shift starts the crew finds the auth disk and gets confirmation of what it is from centcom

User avatar
fleure
 
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 2:50 pm
Byond Username: Fleure

Re: Replace Nuke Op with Operative

Postby fleure » Mon Dec 08, 2014 1:12 pm #49059

mrpain wrote:What about "take X hostage" or "take X body"? Might be cool to abduct people.


I like the hostage idea. You'll probably end up with Nanotrasen employees trying to kill the abductee whilst the Ops have to keep them alive.
Ex-/tg/station maintainer for being a lazy shit.

Zsword
 
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:07 pm

Re: Replace Nuke Op with Operative

Postby Zsword » Mon Dec 08, 2014 1:25 pm #49064

miggles wrote:@anon
nuke ops is fun because everything is high stakes. if you lose, everyone dies. thats why everyone actually cares when they hear "NUKE OPS" on the radio. it pretty much totally prevents you from having a normal round. any reasonable person at this point wont just ignore everything and go back to work, because 1. there is a very real threat that you could die at any moment, and 2. the round will end soon either way so just going back to work is a waste of time.


I just wanna say: This exact train of logic is exactly why I hate Nuke ops, although I don't find validhunting fun, cause I'm very unrobust in open combat, and combat in general.

... one time I defibbed the HoS in Nuke Ops and almost rezzed the rest of sec... if there was much left of sec.

... rambling in text, anyway, I do like the idea of different type of Nuke ops rounds, ESPECIALLY when you factor in those fun groups that do RP-Ops? I love some RP-Ops, those rounds always end up gloriously, and, is more viable when the Ops goal ISN'T 'murder the entire station'. Kidnap Jim? I could totally see an exchange happening.

dezzmont
 
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:07 pm
Byond Username: Dezzmont

Re: Replace Nuke Op with Operative

Postby dezzmont » Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:50 pm #49080

RP ops only really works on Bay style servers. While more evocative types such as kidnapping are cool they require a focus on gameplay support, not just roleplay support. A hypothetical warframe style kidnapping device would be useful, and nuke ops would need to have a locator pointing to their location as well as more operator tools to prevent the situation from being a brawl while also preventing it from being a 5 minute snatch and grab.

Stuff like nuke barricades for example and a capture device that takes a minute to activate would give the station enough time to converge on the nuke ops and preventing them all from just grabbing someone and leaving instantly before anyone knows what even is happening.

User avatar
Spacemanspark
 
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:45 pm
Location: Paradise
Byond Username: Spacemanspark

Re: Replace Nuke Op with Operative

Postby Spacemanspark » Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:37 pm #49084

On Sybil, there were a few rounds where we decided to not go for the nuke disk and instead give ourselves some other kind of goal. One was to steal gold from the vault, another was to wait about forty five or so minutes into the round and then bust in and delete the entirety of research.

I wouldn't have an issue with different goals for nuke Ops.
:^)

User avatar
fleure
 
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 2:50 pm
Byond Username: Fleure

Re: Replace Nuke Op with Operative

Postby fleure » Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:56 pm #49086

Spacemanspark wrote:On Sybil, there were a few rounds where we decided to not go for the nuke disk and instead give ourselves some other kind of goal. One was to steal gold from the vault, another was to wait about forty five or so minutes into the round and then bust in and delete the entirety of research.

I wouldn't have an issue with different goals for nuke Ops.


Are antags keeping to their objectives something enforced in the server rules/policies? If not, yeah, folks can always come up with things them selves if they are imaginative enough.
Ex-/tg/station maintainer for being a lazy shit.

Scott
Github User
 
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:50 pm
Byond Username: Xxnoob
Github Username: xxalpha

Re: Replace Nuke Op with Operative

Postby Scott » Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:10 pm #49088

Kidnapping / stealing high profile targets should definitely be added as possible objectives for Operatives, but they should always have the nuke objective.

User avatar
Scones
 
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 2:46 am
Location: cooler than thou
Byond Username: Scones

Re: Replace Nuke Op with Operative

Postby Scones » Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:17 pm #49089

It should be a sort of bonus objective. I'd hate to see an ops team fail to greentext because taking so-and-so alive wasn't really an option with the horde of vigilantes hounding them through the halls.

Also, the staff pets and the clown should be possible kidnapping objectives.
plplplplp WOOOOooo hahahhaha

User avatar
Timbrewolf
Rarely plays
 
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:55 am
Byond Username: An0n3

Re: Replace Nuke Op with Operative

Postby Timbrewolf » Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:57 pm #49102

fleure wrote:
Spacemanspark wrote:On Sybil, there were a few rounds where we decided to not go for the nuke disk and instead give ourselves some other kind of goal. One was to steal gold from the vault, another was to wait about forty five or so minutes into the round and then bust in and delete the entirety of research.

I wouldn't have an issue with different goals for nuke Ops.


Are antags keeping to their objectives something enforced in the server rules/policies? If not, yeah, folks can always come up with things them selves if they are imaginative enough.


In a team-based mode like Cult, Rev, or Nuke OPs it's enforceable if one person decides to fuck off and dick over others or just totally ignore things.

If everyone agrees not to go after the nuke but to do something else instead then it's A-okay. If one Op decides he'd rather go assassinate the Clown then he's going to get antag banned.

I remember we had a huge situation blow up over some guys (who IIRC did get antag banned for it) fucking off during a Cult round to summon Nar'Sie when it wasn't an objective, which ended up devouring a lot of cultists and screwing them over. The argument was presented that he's Nar'Sie, he's their god, etc. but the ruling was that in a team-mode like that you have to serve your team objectives first.

It's similar to someone getting rev'ed and then making a bee-line for releasing the singularity. You're an antag and you can do that, mechanically, but in the spirit of the game and according to your goals you're really fucking yourself over and not helping the team at all. So we ban random revs who do that just like they were a non-antag unleashing the singularity.
Shed Wolf Numero Uno

NSFW:
Image

dezzmont
 
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:07 pm
Byond Username: Dezzmont

Re: Replace Nuke Op with Operative

Postby dezzmont » Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:54 pm #49143

Makes a lot of sense. Team based modes break down if you don't give a shit about anyone else.

I am worried a kidnapping objective would be far too easy though. While armed vigilantes tend to roam the halls during nuke, it takes them time to form. It wouldn't really be too hard for nuke to storm a place and scram nearly instantly to get one guy.

User avatar
leibniz
 
Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 6:21 pm
Location: Seeking help
Byond Username: Leibniz

Re: Replace Nuke Op with Operative

Postby leibniz » Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:03 pm #49145

I think this would be easier to balance and develop if it was a separate gamemode.
Founder and only member of the "Whitelist Nukeops" movement

dezzmont
 
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:07 pm
Byond Username: Dezzmont

Re: Replace Nuke Op with Operative

Postby dezzmont » Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:24 pm #49149

It fundamentally would be nuke ops with a different set of mission equipment. Can you say why you think it is too different?

User avatar
Reimoo
 
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:58 pm
Byond Username: Reimoo

Re: Replace Nuke Op with Operative

Postby Reimoo » Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:03 pm #49165

dezzmont wrote:I am worried a kidnapping objective would be far too easy though. While armed vigilantes tend to roam the halls during nuke, it takes them time to form. It wouldn't really be too hard for nuke to storm a place and scram nearly instantly to get one guy.


What if instead of needing to kidnap one specific person, (which would be quite boring for the rest of the crew to be honest) they needed to kidnap a number of people to fulfill a point quota?

For example, say the point objective is 10. Bagging standard crewmembers counts as 3, heads count as 5, and the captain counts as 10? If the crewmember is dead they could count for only a fraction of their value, perhaps.

This would trigger the same behavior from the crewmembers in standard nuke rounds because everyone could be a potential target.

User avatar
miggles
 
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:02 am
Byond Username: Miggles

Re: Replace Nuke Op with Operative

Postby miggles » Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:22 pm #49171

dezzmont wrote:RP ops only really works on Bay style servers.

well one time i was the captain and a group of ops sent me a message telling me to meet in the library with the disk and gamble the disk in a game of blackjack
i accepted, brought the disk, and we played honorably
i lost, forked over the disk, told everyone to leave, and escaped to mining. nobody else left because they thought i was crazy. the joke was on them.
it was one of the most memorable rounds of ss13 ive ever had
dezzmont wrote:I am one of sawrge's alt accounts

dezzmont wrote:sawrge has it right.

Connor wrote:miggles is correct though

dezzmont
 
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:07 pm
Byond Username: Dezzmont

Re: Replace Nuke Op with Operative

Postby dezzmont » Tue Dec 09, 2014 9:05 pm #49376

miggles wrote:
dezzmont wrote:RP ops only really works on Bay style servers.

well one time i was the captain and a group of ops sent me a message telling me to meet in the library with the disk and gamble the disk in a game of blackjack
i accepted, brought the disk, and we played honorably
i lost, forked over the disk, told everyone to leave, and escaped to mining. nobody else left because they thought i was crazy. the joke was on them.
it was one of the most memorable rounds of ss13 ive ever had

I think I remember that round! I loved you and hated you at the same time!

That said there is a slight difference between that, a case where the captain was overtly co-operating with the nuke ops, and a case where the nuke ops would have to persue fluff objectives all the time.

Aleph
 
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2014 7:20 am

Re: Replace Nuke Op with Operative

Postby Aleph » Sat Dec 13, 2014 5:54 am #50258

Always give the syndies the objective to recover the disc, even if they don't have to blow the station, so they have the option if they want to, and it keeps the crew assuming that every op team's out to blow the station


Return to Ideas

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users