Remove the surgery table. Allow surgery standing up.

[Shadowflame909]

With medical depth, comes survival complexity. Thus, this makes it more debilitating to get hit at all.

I feel one of the weakest points of the medical system is how "anti-gameplay" it feels. You go down, you lose a limb, your bone gets broken etc, now you have to go to the surgery room and afk until they put you back together.

That's pretty distant and not engaging at all.

Thus my main solution to this would be, removing lying down for surgery at all. No surgery table, no roller bed, just surgery where you got hit.

You can say in the future, the surgery tools are self-sterilizing and anti-bacterial.

Now here are some benefits I would see from such a gameplay change.

1. Doctors would be more involved in the hysteria of /tg/:

Sec is barricading themselves from the impending revolution. A medical doctor behind the barricade is doing tend wounds surgery on the captain, as he's shooting at the revs with a laser gun.

Or the doctor is drinking at the bar when the clown suddenly falls into crit from alcohol poisoning. Nope, Bar RP won't end this time. The Medical Doctor now does liver replacement surgery in the bar, to the disgust of all the bar patrons.

2. This could be the replacement for the medkits that some of you folks so much despise.

Why need a medkit, when your doctor can just tend wounds surgery you in the middle of combat? It'd be more engaging for one and would create a more thrilling gameplay atmosphere as you'd be reliant on keeping the medic helping you out of harm's way.
3. The healing won't stop the action. You just got injured by a slime? Call a medic to xenobio and continue with your job, instead of vise versa.

It's the final epic bout between the cult, and you got critted by a bomb?

Get healed right there! And get back into the action with your legless self.


I think it'd be a much more fun /tg/ middle ground, whilst still allowing for surgery and wounds to get more complex and making battles all that much trickier to deal with.

It'd also make medical doctors an invaluable part of the round! Probably even more so than security. Compared to everyone who can just grab a medkit and walk off.

The one con I can foresee from this is people worried about "infinite healing" and not being able to down their target.

Surgery would still require you to stop moving or else the step is canceled. But let's say the surgeon is a supreme gamer lexia black and your not able to stop their surgery somehow.

Target the healer! If the healers down, the guy your targeting is screwed. What's he gonna heal with? A donk-pocket?


TLDR: Stand Up Surgery would involve doctors in the game and would be more fun than current afk surgery ever was.

[trollbreeder]

sure, let's remove the punishment for fighting too much (the entire point of medical) and turn MDs into the medic from tf2

[Shadowflame909]

sure, let's remove the punishment for fighting too much (the entire point of medical) and turn MDs into the medic from tf2

Why is it a punishment to get involved with one of the core aspects of the game

IE. Shit going south

[Super Aggro Crag]

Remove shadowflame's posting privilege from the /tg/station development subforum

[Shadowflame909]

You gamers don't use it anyways.

Post an idea sometimes craig

Share your thoughts on the current game and the direction you'd like to go in

Pour your heart out

I dare you and see what the internet gives back in return

[Super Aggro Crag]

I do all the time and people say my ideas are great because I'm king bigdick of the universe

[Ayy Lemoh]

I do all the time and people say my ideas are great because I'm king bigdick of the universe

Your idea threads are as follows:
- Yoshi mutation
- spongebob race
- comic sans clowns
- moths get cosmetic arms because bugs
- more ethereal colors
- clown bionic arm
- clowns have rainbow blood [could use more blood colors in general tbh]
- sauerkraut
- borgs being able to box
- skateboard trait
- avocados and guacamole
- remove mutated plants from botany
- give cyborgs the ability to eat food through a module [peacekeepers are eggs 0/10 idea]
- body hair
- cheesy honkers being like irl cheese puffs
- subtle abortion politics joke in the form of removing the facehugger embryo removal surgery. i'm amazed it only had one other post.
- Anglophile trait
- being able to bite people [personally I wish I could kick without someone being down tbh]
- rework social anxiety
- disable server queues.
- russian triangle guitar
I stopped at page 8.

[Super Aggro Crag]

I do all the time and people say my ideas are great because I'm king bigdick of the universe

Your idea threads are as follows:
- Yoshi mutation
- spongebob race
- comic sans clowns
- moths get cosmetic arms because bugs
- more ethereal colors
- clown bionic arm
- clowns have rainbow blood [could use more blood colors in general tbh]
- sauerkraut
- borgs being able to box
- skateboard trait
- avocados and guacamole
- remove mutated plants from botany
- give cyborgs the ability to eat food through a module [peacekeepers are eggs 0/10 idea]
- body hair
- cheesy honkers being like irl cheese puffs
- subtle abortion politics joke in the form of removing the facehugger embryo removal surgery. i'm amazed it only had one other post.
- Anglophile trait
- being able to bite people [personally I wish I could kick without someone being down tbh]
- rework social anxiety
- disable server queues.
- russian triangle guitar
I stopped at page 8.

Exactly all great ideas that add shit to the game instead if removing stuff because one man is a pissbaby who lost

[Zytolg]

I seriously can't tell if you're serious or shitposting.

As someone who has played medical enough to actually know what the fuck they're talking about, let me lay some facts down. You're talking about anti-gameplay, yet you're suggesting we completely neuter, lobotomize, and frankly get rid of all medical gameplay. Firstly medbay exists because people need a place to fucking triage some serious shit and/or perform high level operations related to the gameplay. It also acts as a semi-safe haven for people who might be in immediate danger. It's the last barrier for someone getting permanently removed from the game. What you're suggesting here completely goes against the point of having a medbay in the first place. Doctors shouldn't be on call to go to other places, and no, the bar shouldn't be Dr. Houses latest showcase of how brilliantly immoral he is. You talk about removing operating tables so that doctors may do surgery standing up, but what the fuck will that do? It won't eliminate the fact you still need to stand in one place for 5 seconds per step. In fact, it'll be even worse when you have people constantly moving BOTH doctor and NOW patient.

We already have medics in the game. You'd know this if you payed attention to the job roles. There is nothing stopping a paramedic from using their extended access to bring a medkit to little Timmy in cargo who has a booboo from stubbing his toe on a box. I think the fact that they don't do this at all in the first place disproves your point about having doctors do this entirely. Nobody wants this.

Medkits are good, and they represent medicals move away from a chemical centric progression loop. No more Kelotane or Bicardine, but Hello Stiches and Burn Patches. They're immediate, easy to use, and abundant on the station. Not to mention they'll take care of all scrapes and bruises. The only thing they don't take care of are toxins, but toxin is the rarest of the damage types anyhow. You have plenty of time to get to medbay if you've been poisoned, and if you don't take initiative, the paramedics will.

You've also failed to consider viruses and proximity to the medical techlathe. Medbay is in the unique position to isolate and contain irradiated, sick, or disabled patients. You do surgery in Xenobio, you loose all of that. You also risk exposing other people to a deadly virus that sets people on fire and causes them to explode when they get wet. You won't be able to cure them because chemistry is half a mile away, and don't fucking get me started on a lack of showers for irradiated patients.

Your suggestions, if implemented, will ultimately have the opposite effect of what you desire here. Medical will be so utterly unplayable that nobody will touch it, not even with a 10ft pole. If you don't like going to medbay to get treated, then don't get hurt. Otherwise get it through your head that this is very much an intentional gameplay loop that gives you, the player, the option to interact with medical staff. It was never the opposite way around.

[Screemonster]

because if there's one thing that will improve a game about paranoia and not knowing who you can trust, it's removing all situations where you have to depend upon other people not to murder you when they can get away with it

[angelstarri]

imagine taking shadowflame909 seriously

[BeeSting12]

I do all the time and people say my ideas are great because I'm king bigdick of the universe

Your idea threads are as follows:
- Yoshi mutation
- spongebob race
- comic sans clowns
- moths get cosmetic arms because bugs
- more ethereal colors
- clown bionic arm
- clowns have rainbow blood [could use more blood colors in general tbh]
- sauerkraut
- borgs being able to box
- skateboard trait
- avocados and guacamole
- remove mutated plants from botany
- give cyborgs the ability to eat food through a module [peacekeepers are eggs 0/10 idea]
- body hair
- cheesy honkers being like irl cheese puffs
- subtle abortion politics joke in the form of removing the facehugger embryo removal surgery. i'm amazed it only had one other post.
- Anglophile trait
- being able to bite people [personally I wish I could kick without someone being down tbh]
- rework social anxiety
- disable server queues.
- russian triangle guitar
I stopped at page 8.

Just proved crag's point tbh

[BrianBackslide]

Better yet, I'd rather if non-tend wounds surgery required anesthetic or had a significantly higher failure risk without. More plausible deniability! More paranoia!

[Ayy Lemoh]

Exactly all great ideas that add shit to the game instead if removing stuff because one man is a pissbaby who lost

Just proved crag's point tbh

Nah, he wanted eggbois to be able to eat. that's cringe, bro.

[Shadowflame909]

I'll try to meet you, point by point to show my sincerity.

I seriously can't tell if you're serious or shitposting.

As someone who has played medical enough to actually know what the fuck they're talking about, let me lay some facts down. You're talking about anti-gameplay, yet you're suggesting we completely neuter, lobotomize, and frankly get rid of all medical gameplay. Firstly medbay exists because people need a place to fucking triage some serious shit and/or perform high level operations related to the gameplay. It also acts as a semi-safe haven for people who might be in immediate danger. It's the last barrier for someone getting permanently removed from the game. What you're suggesting here completely goes against the point of having a medbay in the first place. Doctors shouldn't be on call to go to other places, and no, the bar shouldn't be Dr. Houses latest showcase of how brilliantly immoral he is. You talk about removing operating tables so that doctors may do surgery standing up, but what the fuck will that do? It won't eliminate the fact you still need to stand in one place for 5 seconds per step. In fact, it'll be even worse when you have people constantly moving BOTH doctor and NOW patient.

Medical is constantly growing in complexity every day, and it is easier to do permanent damage that requires surgery more than ever. So allowing surgery to be done by standing up will not remove medical gameplay. Because medical is needed for gameplay. It simply moves them out of their department and brings upon more interaction with the crew in their departments. Using a medikit on yourself has a delay too! Meaning if you get pushed or shoved while self-healing, it'll cancel the heal!

I also feel that medical is the opposite of a safe-haven. It is the most bombed place on the station, when it goes down it's a guaranteed shuttle call. By bringing medical out of medical, the round's longevity has been extended just like that, because it is no longer a one-hit shuttle call. Overall, it's just very easy for an antagonist with a gun to walk into medbay and create havoc by attacking the only area where people get healed. When medical goes down, the game basically ends!

We already have medics in the game. You'd know this if you payed attention to the job roles. There is nothing stopping a paramedic from using their extended access to bring a medkit to little Timmy in cargo who has a booboo from stubbing his toe on a box. I think the fact that they don't do this at all in the first place disproves your point about having doctors do this entirely. Nobody wants this.

I am aware of the paramedic's role. But, for the more severe case that a medikit can't patch up. They'll still just drag you to medbay on a roller bed, and do intense 10-20 minute patch up surgery. I want them to do it in the halls, in the action, in maint. I want to drive up the tension of this game and make medical feel like they're a healer in the middle of a battlefield. Instead of merely escorts that drive you out of it, into a land that cannot have tension or conflict and has to be completely separate from the paranoid mystery of ss13. It doesn't have to be like that. I mean there is already a big push to combat lava lands gameplay separation, but medical is one of the biggest separators by design.

Medkits are good, and they represent medicals move away from a chemical centric progression loop. No more Kelotane or Bicardine, but Hello Stiches and Burn Patches. They're immediate, easy to use, and abundant on the station. Not to mention they'll take care of all scrapes and bruises. The only thing they don't take care of are toxins, but toxin is the rarest of the damage types anyhow. You have plenty of time to get to medbay if you've been poisoned, and if you don't take initiative, the paramedics will.

By replacing medikits with an actual person, interaction, roleplay, and atmosphere get driven up. An interactionless healing box is currently used to deal with light wounds, and the only interaction that happens with doctors is when you're already in crit or are too severely wounded and forced to deal with them.

This changes that interaction by making it instant, not delayed when the worst has happened.

You've also failed to consider viruses and proximity to the medical techlathe. Medbay is in the unique position to isolate and contain irradiated, sick, or disabled patients. You do surgery in Xenobio, you loose all of that. You also risk exposing other people to a deadly virus that sets people on fire and causes them to explode when they get wet. You won't be able to cure them because chemistry is half a mile away, and don't fucking get me started on a lack of showers for irradiated patients.

That is a very good point, containment is a big part of medical, and not having an area to contain people will result in a core flaw of gameplay. I am very willing to have medical become a containment zone for the infectious. But, I feel like for rounds when such a thing isn't the norm. Like cult or revs? It should not default to the containment of all injured. A toolshed at most, just like the armory and the locker rooms for security.

Your suggestions, if implemented, will ultimately have the opposite effect of what you desire here. Medical will be so utterly unplayable that nobody will touch it, not even with a 10ft pole. If you don't like going to medbay to get treated, then don't get hurt. Otherwise get it through your head that this is very much an intentional gameplay loop that gives you, the player, the option to interact with medical staff. It was never the opposite way around.

If you play this game without getting hurt, at all, in an entire round. You're missing out on a core part of SS13.

We have it in our tag-line that death is unavoidable, sometimes you lose. So it should be even clearer that getting hurt is unavoidable unless your some sort of uber powergamer.

because if there's one thing that will improve a game about paranoia and not knowing who you can trust, it's removing all situations where you have to depend upon other people not to murder you when they can get away with it

You'd literally have to rely on another player EVEN more than you currently do in medbay now! All it'd take is for a revolutionary to flash them/a cultist to convert them. And your worst fears would come true when they are alone with you, whilst you're relying on them healing you.

It'd be quite the buddy-buddy situation.

TLDR: Spread out MD's will increase round longevity by removing an easy way to cripple the round by destroying medbay. You are right in that a containment area is needed. But I think the way security currently functions with cells and the whatnot, and the current containment rooms in medbay shall adequately address that. Heck, it might even create more tension with the radioactive or diseased crewmembers feeling like prisoners. No gameplay mechanics will change, and surgery is necessary more than ever.

[Shadowflame909]

I read the design doc and suffice to say I'm gonna have to scrap this one too

MDs are not supposed to be the main treaters of light wounds. So that kind of interferes with this whole thing of active Medbay.

Maybe I can focus more on the mini-games and player involvement in the surgery room.

Thank you everyone for the tossing of ideas and deliberation.