Add old taser to HoS gun

[Helios]

I propose replacing the Ion function on HoS's gun, with the old taser projectile.
HoS's gun is already an objective, and he's facing more and more antagonists, perhaps he could use an upgrade.
Anyways, I propose testing the switch for a month, and adding it as a poll option, and see whether or not the community would support the change. I lost the argument on cloners, but I am ready for round 2

[wesoda25]

Why would you think this is a good idea?

[PKPenguin321]

Why would you think this is a good idea?

gee idk why dont u read his post

anyways i think this would be lame because youre just giving the hos more shit when he already has mountains of it

[wesoda25]

Nothing in his post remotely justifies us nullifying our work to phase out stuns, let alone ranged ones. Like no offense helios but it baffles me that people would even consider re-adding them to the game. All it would do is make the HOS gun a powergamers #1 objective, it'd be even stronger than back when stuns were in the game because A: there would be no counterplay through other ranged stuns and B: disablers are considerably weaker than when we first removed tasers. Also the concept of letting players vote on letting [x weapon] stay in the game seems like a recipe for disaster.

Maybe I'm reading into what was posed as a non-serious suggestion too much, though. Hopefully this doesn't come off as too antagonistic of a post, and if it does, sorry. Just please no.

[Super Aggro Crag]

wow wesoda you're acting like he raped your first born son chill the fuck out

[Super Aggro Crag]

well some people do

some people miss when this game was funny and not just "joust at each other with disarm in the hopes you get a wall bounce and then spam wallbounce x melee over and over"

[Sheodir]

Only tangentially related to that last point but can we address that real quick
"Push someone onto a wall and they fall down" never made any sense to me
Not in a gameplay perspective it's better than the old disarm but have you ever pushed someone against a wall
People are standing up, walls are vertical surfaces, the last thing they do is fall down
I just always imagine they're down a little judo trip move

anyway I think any buff to the HoS is a good buff because Security really suffers on the current meta and to wesoda's arugment of "but powergamers will steal it" you can't balance the game around the fact powergamers will beeline for powerful weaponry that's what the fuckers do
give everyone else better counters to them

[wesoda25]

To clarify, my point is that the very existence of stun weaponry is bad, obviously it will fall to either side, I don't doubt or question that. We've made progress to eradicate stuns from the game, which is bad game play, and to me it is a massive step backward to re-add it.

As for crag, I don't know what to say other than "that sucks, go play vg". Modern tg is more focused on balance and fairness, and for that we had to pay the hilarious spontaneity we had from unbalanced and crazy features like RNG disarm, ranged stuns, stun gloves, flight suits, so on and so forth. The game is progressing from it's clunky past to something smoother and more polished. Yeah maybe we lost some of the "soul" the old game had, but at this point we're way past the point of no return and it's pointless to complain.

tldr cry harder oldfag the future is now

[oranges]

the absolute state of security players

[Helios]

I will cling to the past, because even though my suggestions won't get implemented, the old ways worked and some aught to be advocating for them.
Not all change is good. Not all bad changes got reverted. Not even close.

[NecromancerAnne]

Tasers were shit and you should learn to fight rather than wringe your hands over your compensation stick being taken away.

I feel like the impact of tasers is either poorly remembered or those who advocate for their return haven't chosen to adapt and blame it on the lose of the golden bolt. Regularly you just saw people boning with tasers and cleaning the station of life with a taser and laser. Or whatever weapon they brought as their sidearm. It was the taser doing the work, and a flurry of taser shots is not exactly an easy thing to avoid if someone is alpha striking.

Quite literally, tasers were alpha striking weapons given to the role who can't reasonably do that, since cops are dead obvious unless they disguise. The one that does and can are antags, so tasers just didn't work for the role they were designed for, and several hundred times better for the people killing them. This meant exactly one dead security officer or stolen taser meant the station as a whole could get wiped by the bad guy.

[Sheodir]

Tasers were shit and you should learn to fight rather than wringe your hands over your compensation stick being taken away.

I feel like the impact of tasers is either poorly remembered or those who advocate for their return haven't chosen to adapt and blame it on the lose of the golden bolt. Regularly you just saw people boning with tasers and cleaning the station of life with a taser and laser. Or whatever weapon they brought as their sidearm. It was the taser doing the work, and a flurry of taser shots is not exactly an easy thing to avoid if someone is alpha striking.

Quite literally, tasers were alpha striking weapons given to the role who can't reasonably do that, since cops are dead obvious unless they disguise. The one that does and can are antags, so tasers just didn't work for the role they were designed for, and several hundred times better for the people killing them. This meant exactly one dead security officer or stolen taser meant the station as a whole could get wiped by the bad guy.

Look, I get why tasers in their old form had to go. I overall like the slow removal of stuns. But this isn't a suggestion to bring back every taser to every sec officer's hand working the same way, it's to give a singular gun who in its current form isn't really even special (ooh, it switches fire modes, so useful) a better usage. Balance it however you like - make it have almost no charges, limited range, or hell, make the disabler part of the HoS gun stronger to compensate. But HoS' non lethal options kinda suck for the current meta.

And before you say >but what about all the HoS toys get good

Almost all of those are lethal options and I'd give every single one away for better non lethal options that aren't shit that basically puts the HoS on the same level of anyone else with a disabler.

[Nabski]

Tasers were shit and you should learn to fight rather than wringe your hands over your compensation stick being taken away.

I feel like the impact of tasers is either poorly remembered or those who advocate for their return haven't chosen to adapt and blame it on the lose of the golden bolt. Regularly you just saw people boning with tasers and cleaning the station of life with a taser and laser. Or whatever weapon they brought as their sidearm. It was the taser doing the work, and a flurry of taser shots is not exactly an easy thing to avoid if someone is alpha striking.

Quite literally, tasers were alpha striking weapons given to the role who can't reasonably do that, since cops are dead obvious unless they disguise. The one that does and can are antags, so tasers just didn't work for the role they were designed for, and several hundred times better for the people killing them. This meant exactly one dead security officer or stolen taser meant the station as a whole could get wiped by the bad guy.

What game were you playing where tasers were shit? Tasers were strong enough that they were worth using over the majority of antagonist locked weapons.

[Sheodir]

What game were you playing where tasers were shit? Tasers were strong enough that they were worth using over the majority of antagonist locked weapons.

I think you read that wrong, she meant they were shit as in they were bad for the game not shit as in they were poorly effective, read right under that

[NecromancerAnne]

Nabski, I meant they were shit DESIGN, my dude.

[wesoda25]

I think they just mean tasers were bad for the game.

Lets be honest though, at the time of removal, disablers were better in 9/10 situations. They had a 1-2 hit slowdown and 3 hit stun, you could just spam down a hallway if someone was running from you and they probably wouldn't escape. Tasers were pretty much used only in short range, especially for sneak attacks (which is why they benefited traitors more than security). Since then disablers have been nerfed pretty hard, so tasers would be a lot stronger now if reintroduced then when we removed them.

[Armhulen]

Was messing around with 6 other players in the thunderdome the other day and we decided to have a duel off of what we could find from an infinite use christmas tree. I got a self charging taser, and holy shit that was a quick reminder on why we don't have those anymore haha

honestly though, crag has a bit of truth in his post. baseball bats are insanely strong for how early you can get them and flashes shouldn't be stuns in a no-stun combat.

[NecromancerAnne]

Almost all of those are lethal options and I'd give every single one away for better non lethal options that aren't shit that basically puts the HoS on the same level of anyone else with a disabler.

Mate, you can't sneeze at a security item without people throwing a fit. It's not like tasers need be identical to what they were before, but trying to add or change anything isn't going to do shit.

Trying too hard to focus on equipment and the power of equipment is missing the fundamental problem with an equipment based balance. It is an endless cycle of inadequate changes only empowering the person who wields it, which can be fucking anybody.

That's why giving the HoS gun a taser is a mistake. It just gets sought after and used and abused. It isn't something the HoS necessarily benefits from and if there isn't a HoS, it will be stolen by the first person with an RCD or pair of yellow gloves.

This was the case when it was, briefly, the only taser on the station. And was the case with krav maga, a four second stun.

[Armhulen]

Almost all of those are lethal options and I'd give every single one away for better non lethal options that aren't shit that basically puts the HoS on the same level of anyone else with a disabler.

Mate, you can't sneeze at a security item without people throwing a fit. It's not like tasers need be identical to what they were before, but trying to add or change anything isn't going to do shit.

Trying too hard to focus on equipment and the power of equipment is missing the fundamental problem with an equipment based balance. It is an endless cycle of inadequate changes only empowering the person who wields it, which can be fucking anybody.

That's why giving the HoS gun a taser is a mistake. It just gets sought after and used and abused. It isn't something the HoS necessarily benefits from and if there isn't a HoS, it will be stolen by the first person with an RCD or pair of yellow gloves.

we could give the hos taser eyes

[NecromancerAnne]

Stunglasses are a thing on cit. They're admeme only but they do literally what they say on the tin.

[Sheodir]

Almost all of those are lethal options and I'd give every single one away for better non lethal options that aren't shit that basically puts the HoS on the same level of anyone else with a disabler.

Mate, you can't sneeze at a security item without people throwing a fit. It's not like tasers need be identical to what they were before, but trying to add or change anything isn't going to do shit.

Trying too hard to focus on equipment and the power of equipment is missing the fundamental problem with an equipment based balance. It is an endless cycle of inadequate changes only empowering the person who wields it, which can be fucking anybody.

That's why giving the HoS gun a taser is a mistake. It just gets sought after and used and abused. It isn't something the HoS necessarily benefits from and if there isn't a HoS, it will be stolen by the first person with an RCD or pair of yellow gloves.

we could give the hos taser eyes

I see nothing wrong with this

[wesoda25]

Anne nerf flashes already

[Armhulen]

Anne nerf flashes already

May I switch it to knockdown instead?

[NecromancerAnne]

I tried to do that and athath made a post on digg about it and wanted to brigade me.

[Armhulen]

I tried to do that and athath made a post on digg about it and wanted to brigade me.

ATHATH can go fuck himself if he tries to brigade my knockdown pr

[wesoda25]

I had an idea where its effects are weakened based on flash protection, not negated. Shorter blind effect the better your eyes are covered, less confusion, and ya maybe from no protection to negative protection you would have a longer knockdown effect

[NecromancerAnne]

Good luck my dude, but like maybe look into generalizing the snowflake effect flashbangs have, and look at reconfiguring flash effects to be less all or nothing, which doesn't seem like a fun refactor and why I didn't wanna try for a bit. I would love to see flash powder work like flashbangs, and flashes blinding even through shades.

Also, don't capitulate to borg players.

[wesoda25]

Oh im just giving my thoughts fuck making balance prs

[NecromancerAnne]

I was talking to arm actually. It just happened to be posted at the same time as your post.

[wesoda25]

ok yes go arm

[confused rock]

Anne nerf flashes already

May I switch it to knockdown instead?

I remember an old nerf to flashes where they just disarmed people and made them dizzy so they moved in random directions for a few seconds
I don't remember why we brought back flashes stunning but that'd be better than flashes just being worse batons
ok I think I remember actually I think the reason we did that was because flashes being so rare meant borgs were too op or something so flashes were buffed against people
it made sense at the time ok

[NecromancerAnne]

At the time...yes...

[trollbreeder]

If you're discussing flashes, don't forget about revs.

[NecromancerAnne]

What's it gonna do to revs? They can have a snowflake stun if necessary but if it's just gonna leave your target dizzy after conversion, surely that's a buff right?

Unless you mean revs using flashes on mindshielded cunts, in which case, oh well?

Also revs just use baseball bats, like everyone else. Seriously, everyone is using those right now and might be a worse issue than flashes.

[Nabski]

Nabski, I meant they were shit DESIGN, my dude.

Oh. Then yeah I agree.

[Sheodir]

Revs is a trash gamemode so we have to be wary of buffing them in any way

[NecromancerAnne]

In an extremely minor way that barely matters? Psssh, nah it's fine.

[saprasam]

I propose replacing the Ion function on HoS's gun, with the old taser projectile.
HoS's gun is already an objective, and he's facing more and more antagonists, perhaps he could use an upgrade.
Anyways, I propose testing the switch for a month, and adding it as a poll option, and see whether or not the community would support the change. I lost the argument on cloners, but I am ready for round 2

No.