What to do with the traitor flavors that don't make sense?

[Itseasytosee2me]

So, progression traitor paints every traitor as a syndicate agent contractor, who rises through the ranks of syndicate fame and preforms objectives explicitly "for the syndicate" and is seemingly sponsored and individually recognized "by the syndicate" The objectives are all represented as being posted from being from syndicate command, and many of them included and utilize syndicate iconography, with the most glaring examples being the syndicate graffiti objective, and the syndicate posters objective.

However, we have ALOT of traitor flavors, many of which are not explicitly allied with the syndicate, and some of which are specifically in opposition to the syndicate. It not only doesn't make sense for these individuals to be specifically recognized by the syndicate, but also for them to commit the same actions as a syndicate agent that would otherwise be against their own interests. Many final objectives can fall into this category as well, and some non-syndicate aligned traitor flavors make sense with some things that others do not. The mechanics of codewords as well, completely clash with the lore that we have layer out. I'm not saying that anything by definition needs to be removed, but we have created an unjustifiable mess of lore and mechanics that we need to brainstorm some ways to elegantly resolve.

List of non-syndicate affiliated traitor flavors.

Champion of Evil: A group obsessed with committing the most dark and evil acts they can imagine. Represented as unprofessional. Uplink gained from the black market. No ties to the syndicate.
Corporate Climber: Someone who wants to rise the ranks of Nanotrasen hierarchy and is willing to do great acts of sabotage and murder to achieve their goals. Uplink gained from the black market. Explicitly hates the syndicate as a Nanotrasen loyalist.
Gone postal: A normal crewmember who has gone stark raving mad and now wants to hijack the emergency shuttle (to bring it to, the syndicate base?). It's impossible to roll this flavor without the hijack objective. They are explicitly not aligned with the syndicate. They supposedly managed to steal an uplink, but it has the uplink theme UPLINK_THEME_UNDERWORLD_MARKET (as do most of these flavors) instead of UPLINK_THEME_SYNDICATE which implies that they stole it from a non syndicate agent.
Internal Affairs Agent: A contractor hired by NT to murder syndicate agents/corrupt individuals. The uplink they have is given to them by Nanotrasen and is the only uplink in the game to use the theme "ntos." While the uplink is given to them by NT, all the gear available in it is supposedly captured from the syndicate.
Legal Trouble: Someone in legal trouble who is involved in some unspecified scandal, leading to them have to kill some people/steal some stuff in order to cover it up. Uplink supposedly gained from the black market.

Here is currently the only mechanical result of these different flavors:

- Non-syndie flavors are only chosen 25% of the time as opposed to syndicate flavors.
- Animal Rights Consortium, Bee Liberation Front, Gone Postal, Tiger Cooperative Fanatic, and Waffle Corporation Terrorist can only be rolled if you have the hijack objective, other flavors can not be rolled with the hijack objective.

Special mention to the Tiger Cooperative Fanatic, whos flavor text insinuates that they don't really care about pushing forward the objectives of the syndicate (at least not in this particular mission) and their uplink is given to them specifically from their organization, not the wider syndicate (it has a special theme and name).

Additionally, there are plenty of feuds or relationships between differing traitor factions, but this has no impact on the game or objectives. The only way to ever find this out is by asking them, and most people seem to not care or really even notice it. Maybe waffle corp and donk co occasionally get assassinate objectives against each other where they KNOW that their target is an enemy traitor.

[Jacquerel]

I don't think that we should both have randomly assigned factions and have any mechanical link to factions (be it missions which can generate, or gear which is available).
I am not sure you were proposing any of those (frankly I am not sure if you are proposing anything at all?) but I would prefer slightly confusing themeing to either of those things.

[Itseasytosee2me]

I don't think that we should both have randomly assigned factions and have any mechanical link to factions (be it missions which can generate, or gear which is available).
I am not sure you were proposing any of those (frankly I am not sure if you are proposing anything at all?) but I would prefer slightly confusing themeing to either of those things.

Im fishing for ideas as to solve the obvious problem that i have laid out. Its not merely confusing, its nonsensical.

[RandumbPhantomb]

I don't think that we should both have randomly assigned factions and have any mechanical link to factions (be it missions which can generate, or gear which is available).
I am not sure you were proposing any of those (frankly I am not sure if you are proposing anything at all?) but I would prefer slightly confusing themeing to either of those things.

people get randomly assigned for shit dude, it happens, deal with it

[Jacquerel]

I don't think that we should both have randomly assigned factions and have any mechanical link to factions (be it missions which can generate, or gear which is available).
I am not sure you were proposing any of those (frankly I am not sure if you are proposing anything at all?) but I would prefer slightly confusing themeing to either of those things.

people get randomly assigned for shit dude, it happens, deal with it

I won't actually because I decide what gets merged into the game

[Armhulen]

So, progression traitor paints every traitor as a syndicate agent contractor, who rises through the ranks of syndicate fame and preforms objectives explicitly "for the syndicate" and is seemingly sponsored and individually recognized "by the syndicate" The objectives are all represented as being posted from being from syndicate command, and many of them included and utilize syndicate iconography, with the most glaring examples being the syndicate graffiti objective, and the syndicate posters objective.

However, we have ALOT of traitor flavors, many of which are not explicitly allied with the syndicate, and some of which are specifically in opposition to the syndicate. It not only doesn't make sense for these individuals to be specifically recognized by the syndicate, but also for them to commit the same actions as a syndicate agent that would otherwise be against their own interests. Many final objectives can fall into this category as well, and some non-syndicate aligned traitor flavors make sense with some things that others do not. The mechanics of codewords as well, completely clash with the lore that we have layer out. I'm not saying that anything by definition needs to be removed, but we have created an unjustifiable mess of lore and mechanics that we need to brainstorm some ways to elegantly resolve.

List of non-syndicate affiliated traitor flavors.

Champion of Evil: A group obsessed with committing the most dark and evil acts they can imagine. Represented as unprofessional. Uplink gained from the black market. No ties to the syndicate.
Corporate Climber: Someone who wants to rise the ranks of Nanotrasen hierarchy and is willing to do great acts of sabotage and murder to achieve their goals. Uplink gained from the black market. Explicitly hates the syndicate as a Nanotrasen loyalist.
Gone postal: A normal crewmember who has gone stark raving mad and now wants to hijack the emergency shuttle (to bring it to, the syndicate base?). It's impossible to roll this flavor without the hijack objective. They are explicitly not aligned with the syndicate. They supposedly managed to steal an uplink, but it has the uplink theme UPLINK_THEME_UNDERWORLD_MARKET (as do most of these flavors) instead of UPLINK_THEME_SYNDICATE which implies that they stole it from a non syndicate agent.
Internal Affairs Agent: A contractor hired by NT to murder syndicate agents/corrupt individuals. The uplink they have is given to them by Nanotrasen and is the only uplink in the game to use the theme "ntos." While the uplink is given to them by NT, all the gear available in it is supposedly captured from the syndicate.
Legal Trouble: Someone in legal trouble who is involved in some unspecified scandal, leading to them have to kill some people/steal some stuff in order to cover it up. Uplink supposedly gained from the black market.

Here is currently the only mechanical result of these different flavors:

- Non-syndie flavors are only chosen 25% of the time as opposed to syndicate flavors.
- Animal Rights Consortium, Bee Liberation Front, Gone Postal, Tiger Cooperative Fanatic, and Waffle Corporation Terrorist can only be rolled if you have the hijack objective, other flavors can not be rolled with the hijack objective.

Special mention to the Tiger Cooperative Fanatic, whos flavor text insinuates that they don't really care about pushing forward the objectives of the syndicate (at least not in this particular mission) and their uplink is given to them specifically from their organization, not the wider syndicate (it has a special theme and name).

Additionally, there are plenty of feuds or relationships between differing traitor factions, but this has no impact on the game or objectives. The only way to ever find this out is by asking them, and most people seem to not care or really even notice it. Maybe waffle corp and donk co occasionally get assassinate objectives against each other where they KNOW that their target is an enemy traitor.

The easiest way to make them suddenly matter is to remove the rule (and thus the disclaimer) that these are just roleplay suggestions. Maybe I should pop in real quick and make the gone postal flavor bring the shuttle to deep space?
I don't think having them as roleplay suggestions *ruins* everything... but it would be cooler if people could align with these closer. I like traitor flavors, I just realize a lot of people especially on LRP don't care. Maybe it should be a server config?
Right now the only purchase-specific thing I would be interested in is some kind of mundane evil pin to show your allegiance. Could make for some cool moments, think fbi guy showing a badge. Hey I might code that

[Itseasytosee2me]

The easiest way to make them suddenly matter is to remove the rule (and thus the disclaimer) that these are just roleplay suggestions. Maybe I should pop in real quick and make the gone postal flavor bring the shuttle to deep space?
I don't think having them as roleplay suggestions *ruins* everything... but it would be cooler if people could align with these closer. I like traitor flavors, I just realize a lot of people especially on LRP don't care. Maybe it should be a server config?
Right now the only purchase-specific thing I would be interested in is some kind of mundane evil pin to show your allegiance. Could make for some cool moments, think fbi guy showing a badge. Hey I might code that

Godspeed you glorious bastard.

We have taken some steps in the right direction sense this thread was posted. We got rid of the contractor-y vibe of traitor. Replaced reputation with threat level and all that.

[Armhulen]

The easiest way to make them suddenly matter is to remove the rule (and thus the disclaimer) that these are just roleplay suggestions. Maybe I should pop in real quick and make the gone postal flavor bring the shuttle to deep space?
I don't think having them as roleplay suggestions *ruins* everything... but it would be cooler if people could align with these closer. I like traitor flavors, I just realize a lot of people especially on LRP don't care. Maybe it should be a server config?
Right now the only purchase-specific thing I would be interested in is some kind of mundane evil pin to show your allegiance. Could make for some cool moments, think fbi guy showing a badge. Hey I might code that

Godspeed you glorious bastard.

We have taken some steps in the right direction sense this thread was posted. We got rid of the contractor-y vibe of traitor. Replaced reputation with threat level and all that.

I guess we're committing now, yeah...

[NoxVS]

Can you completely axe IAA if you are doing this? It's uninteresting and encourages friendtagging.

[DaydreamIQ]

Personally I kind of wish we could just choose our affiliation through a preference menu or something. Everyone has a favourite and if they're just 'Roleplay suggestions' then there's literally no downside to letting people pick if they wanna be a crackhead who got their hands on an uplink for the hell of it or a cybersun infiltrator sent to commit evil or whatever

[Armhulen]

Can you completely axe IAA if you are doing this? It's uninteresting and encourages friendtagging.

Yes if you have a replacement idea, I don't wanna take the variety hit

[TheRex9001]

Can you completely axe IAA if you are doing this? It's uninteresting and encourages friendtagging.

Yes if you have a replacement idea, I don't wanna take the variety hit

If its not NT related, what about Azik interstellar? I don't think they have a traitor flavour

[8bot]

just get rid of them and prog traitor
old system was way better

[Armhulen]

Well, progtots did exist with the old system, and it kinda made more sense. But I think it works on old and new system. And either way, it's a roleplay suggestion. Just ignore it

[warbluke]

I wish you could choose your organization. I want MI13 every round for the covert ops feel.

[Armhulen]

I wish you could choose your organization. I want MI13 every round for the covert ops feel.

I feel ready to add this as an option

[Yobrocharlie]

i personally think the IAA uplink needs a complete overhaul replacing pretty much all syndicate items with a centcom variant, like the cryptographic sequencer with a bluespace variant or replacing the .357 with an autorifle or allowing them to buy a pulse pistol/pulse slugs and replacing the syndicate elite suit with just an ERT suit, im just throwing shit at the wall i just hate that IAA is indifferent from normal progtot if a shitter gets it.