Proposed Hypnogrenade Changes

[Witherael]

As it currently stands, the hypnogrenade is an incredibly niche traitor item that is outclassed by the hypnoflash in every way.
In order to make effective use of the hypnogrenade, you must:
-Have eye protection or be blind
-Have ear protection or be deaf
-Use a screwdriver to reduce the timer delay
-Draw a crowd of people
-Eliminate telecommunications
-Quickly copy and paste a hypnosis objective before someone immune says anything
--To be immune to the grenade, you must have either eye protection, ear protection, or a mindshield

This list makes for a very robust barrier to entry that in most cases leaves you with no TC, and in most cases, lacks its expected efficacy.
When directly compared to the hypnoflash, which costs 5 TC less, its faults become very clear:
-You do not need eye protection to flash someone else
-Ear protection plays no part
-The trance effect is instant, and is only delayed if you are inducing sleep with the flash itself
-It has infinite uses, and is intended for sole targets
-You can remove the headset individually, or reapply the trance effect
-You can reapply the trance status effect
--To be immune to the hypnoflash, you must have either sunglasses or a mindshield, or not be afflicted with hallucinations, drowsiness, drugginess, or sleeping

I have a few ideas for how to rectify the apparent gap in usefulness, as detailed now:
-Make the item come with eye and ear protection
-Make the item not affect the one who primed it
-Make whoever hears the sound who is also not deaf not able to speak or move
-Make the item disable telecommunications inherently
-Make the sprite that of a cleaner grenade, and have it first flood the area with a chemical that induces hallucinations, then flash
-Add additional unique modes to the item, so it is not specifically a hypnosis device
A few ideas I had in this regard is:
a mode for a temporary hypnosis, that you can set prior to priming the grenade, similar to the brainwashing surgery
a mode that shatters sanity and mood
a mode that gives a couple of non-magical mental traumas to those it flashes, similar to wizard's curse of madness
a mode that converts those affected to a generic team antag with the goal of assisting the one who primed the grenade, complete with a custom marker to easily identify who is who like any other team antag

I've been using the hypnogrenade at the forefront of my gimmicks long enough to consider myself the authority on it, and as unfortunate as it is, its just not a viable item even in its greatest potential scenario. I hope my suggestions are considered, as it would give me a feasible opportunity to try out some of my ideas that I've wanted to do for a while but have been otherwise unable to succeed in.

[Redbert]

i liked the idea of a forced hypno message. any other increase in power has the potential to make it really strong. it seems that if thrown into a room of the entire station, you tend to get only 3-4 people. I think that's reasonable if you could set a specific hypno message and not lose 13 TC because someone else spoke the same game tick the grenade goes off.
i think a head maintainer already said no to that idea, so i guess the only options are your suggestions.
i don't really have a preference, not against or for any of these changes. but hypno grenade is extremely bad TC value and definitely needs some adjustments

edit: going off what someone told me about a maintainer saying no. it seems like this may have not been the case so there may be a shot?

[Witherael]

i liked the idea of a forced hypno message. any other increase in power has the potential to make it really strong. it seems that if thrown into a room of the entire station, you tend to get only 3-4 people. I think that's reasonable if you could set a specific hypno message and not lose 13 TC because someone else spoke the same game tick the grenade goes off.
i think a head maintainer already said no to that idea, so i guess the only options are your suggestions.
i don't really have a preference, not against or for any of these changes. but hypno grenade is extremely bad TC value and definitely needs some adjustments

I definitely prefer it to be a higher cost item, because if its cost was just lowered it still wouldn't be an item anyone would want to use anyways. With a higher cost, I think it has the potential to be more than a very scuffed single use AOE flash.

[Xkallubar]

Once upon a time, I hypnogrenaded medbay when it was packed, and I was dumb and didn't have shades, and someone immediately said NO!!!

We all woke up screaming NO on the radio for the remainder of the round because that one guy messed it up.

A few rounds earlier half the station were in one place during the event where you lose your money if you don't deposit it at the silly floating atm thing, and someone hypnoflashed half the station into lord singuloth cultists who eventually ended up causing a singularity.

Fix hypno grenade

[Witherael]

Once upon a time, I hypnogrenaded medbay when it was packed, and I was dumb and didn't have shades, and someone immediately said NO!!!

We all woke up screaming NO on the radio for the remainder of the round because that one guy messed it up.

A few rounds earlier half the station were in one place during the event where you lose your money if you don't deposit it at the silly floating atm thing, and someone hypnoflashed half the station into lord singuloth cultists who eventually ended up causing a singularity.

Fix hypno grenade

I believe that was actually me, there was a real cult that round too, and both cults succeeded in summoning their respective god. And then Singuloth ate Nar'sie. I believe it was only one person of the three or so victims that actually knew how to make the SM singuloose, so that guy was a champion to his people.

[Xkallubar]

Once upon a time, I hypnogrenaded medbay when it was packed, and I was dumb and didn't have shades, and someone immediately said NO!!!

We all woke up screaming NO on the radio for the remainder of the round because that one guy messed it up.

A few rounds earlier half the station were in one place during the event where you lose your money if you don't deposit it at the silly floating atm thing, and someone hypnoflashed half the station into lord singuloth cultists who eventually ended up causing a singularity.

Fix hypno grenade

I believe that was actually me, there was a real cult that round too, and both cults succeeded in summoning their respective god. And then Singuloth ate Nar'sie. I believe it was only one person of the three or so victims that actually knew how to make the SM singuloose, so that guy was a champion to his people.

Was it on manuel? There was indeed a real cult as well.

[Witherael]

Once upon a time, I hypnogrenaded medbay when it was packed, and I was dumb and didn't have shades, and someone immediately said NO!!!

We all woke up screaming NO on the radio for the remainder of the round because that one guy messed it up.

A few rounds earlier half the station were in one place during the event where you lose your money if you don't deposit it at the silly floating atm thing, and someone hypnoflashed half the station into lord singuloth cultists who eventually ended up causing a singularity.

Fix hypno grenade

I believe that was actually me, there was a real cult that round too, and both cults succeeded in summoning their respective god. And then Singuloth ate Nar'sie. I believe it was only one person of the three or so victims that actually knew how to make the SM singuloose, so that guy was a champion to his people.

Was it on manuel? There was indeed a real cult as well.

Yes, on tram too if I recall. The crab machine spawned in escape pods and it was actually one of the better times that a tram crab worked.

[Xkallubar]

Once upon a time, I hypnogrenaded medbay when it was packed, and I was dumb and didn't have shades, and someone immediately said NO!!!

We all woke up screaming NO on the radio for the remainder of the round because that one guy messed it up.

A few rounds earlier half the station were in one place during the event where you lose your money if you don't deposit it at the silly floating atm thing, and someone hypnoflashed half the station into lord singuloth cultists who eventually ended up causing a singularity.

Fix hypno grenade

I believe that was actually me, there was a real cult that round too, and both cults succeeded in summoning their respective god. And then Singuloth ate Nar'sie. I believe it was only one person of the three or so victims that actually knew how to make the SM singuloose, so that guy was a champion to his people.

Was it on manuel? There was indeed a real cult as well.

Yes, on tram too if I recall. The crab machine spawned in escape pods and it was actually one of the better times that a tram crab worked.

Yep it was on tram at pods. Neat

[Super Aggro Crag]

the combo manuever is the crab-17 into hypnogrenade when people show up, last time i saw it used he made everyone say "there is going to be a martial arts tournament, practice your fighting style to prove your dojo is the best"

[Witherael]

the combo manuever is the crab-17 into hypnogrenade when people show up, last time i saw it used he made everyone say "there is going to be a martial arts tournament, practice your fighting style to prove your dojo is the best"

Believe it or not, this was also me. I have been innovating with this item for a while, long enough to know all of its faults. I believe the first time I tried the combo was July 2023, made a popup army of black eyed peas members to perform in the bar with. I believe the hypnogrenade crab combo has recently been popularized and is being used by more people than just me, hopefully it introduces them to the problems of the item and raises awareness of the need for changes to it.