Energy Daggers

[Miauw]

https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/11202

3 TC, 15 damage, can be concealed in much the same way as a sleepypen.

[Zilenan91]

Ooh, they fit in PDAs, that makes them so much better than I thought they would be.

[Akkryls]

New meta, sec checks everyone's PDA for energy daggers.
But yeah, sounds awesome. Time to go to stab town on someone.

[Falamazeer]

I'm sold.

[Steelpoint]

So the poor man's energy sword.

Not bad at all.

[Cheimon]

Indeed, at 15 damage it's as good as almost any weapon on the station bar spears and fire axes.

Sounds cool, I'll have to be even more thorough in searching suspected traitors than before.

[Incomptinence]

Maybe let it eye stab like a screwdriver? Now that would be scary.

[Cheimon]

The drill's like that and it's very effective. Only problem is if you keep adding bonuses to it eventually it'll be worth more than 3 TC.

[Incomptinence]

Well it is pointy. Sneak attacking some poor bastard without eye protection is pretty skulduggeryish.

[lumipharon]

It's a neat idea, but honestly, a welding tool does 15 (I think?) burn, is also a small item, and the extended ones you can get from the vendor (or inifinte ones from R&D) will last you long enough to kill more then one person between refills, while also being free, and not making you valid salad.

[TechnoAlchemist]

I'm pretty sure scalpels are also 15 brute and won't get you sent to perma for having.

[Alex Crimson]

NoX had this. It did extra damage when you hit someone from behind and a lot of damage when thrown.

[Scott]

Wouldn't you be better off carrying a fire extinguisher? It's not getting you permabrigged and even has other uses.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

Wouldn't you be better off carrying a fire extinguisher? It's not getting you permabrigged and even has other uses.

I'm pretty sure scalpels are also 15 brute and won't get you sent to perma for having.

Scalpels are 10, drills are 15, fire extinguishers are 8

[Saegrimr]

Yeah but can you hide those in your PDA?

It'll be super fucking cool and stealthy until the second or third round after it goes live when sec starts pulling pens out of PDAs just in case.

[lumipharon]

Yeah but can you hide those in your PDA?

It'll be super fucking cool and stealthy until the second or third round after it goes live when sec starts pulling pens out of PDAs just in case.

The point is you don't NEED to hide a welder in your pda.
No one is going to bat an eyelid at anyone carrying a welding tool, and it is just as powerful, with extra utility value.

[DemonFiren]

So make the pen do 20 damage instead. Maybe even 25.

[Cheimon]

Why? It's a melee weapon and it's in the right range for weapons of its type. It's not hard to kill someone with a 15 damage weapon and it's extremely stealthy if it hides in a PDA. Welders quickly run out of fuel if you've got one but aren't dragging a tank with you, and they're harder to hide. At the end of the day, this is also only 3 TC.

Making it do 25 damage means it's literally better than a fire axe (which is good enough to really mess people up). That would be bullshit at the proposed cost.

[MisterPerson]

Doesn't really occupy an interesting design space. It's a melee weapon you can hide... except nobody will care about a fire extinguisher that goes missing, which does the same amount of damage.

[Stan_Studnick]

So what I'm gathering from this thread is the only reasons for not adding this as an option for antags because "well it will make you valid" and "other weapons are better."

Can somebody explain to me how that makes any sense? I don't get it.

[lumipharon]

Because it is completely and utterly redundant.

It would be like being able to buy a type of handcuff for 2tc.
Useful, if it isn't for the fact you can get something that is 100% functionally identical for free without exposing yourself as a traitor.

[Stan_Studnick]

But by that logic why buy any gun when you could just raid the armory? Why have C4 when thermite exists?

I mean just because there's alternatives doesn't mean anything. Should we just ditch all the guns, the esword, and the explosives on the uplink because they're "redundant?"

[TechnoAlchemist]

But by that logic why buy any gun when you could just raid the armory? Why have C4 when thermite exists?

I mean just because there's alternatives doesn't mean anything. Should we just ditch all the guns, the esword, and the explosives on the uplink because they're "redundant?"

Except those things are risky, time consuming, and not always feasible. You can literally just pull a fire extinguisher out of the wall and be at less of a risk of being perma'd.

Doesn't really matter, it's already in anyways.

[Incomptinence]

Aaaaand reverted cause bugged.

I really think it should be able to eyestab and maybe cause assured bleeding or have improved throw force ala hatchet little buff things like that to make it brutish despite not being very damaging.

[PKPenguin321]

If you buff it's damage, the most you want to buff it to is 20, since the standard esword which costs more than twice as much TC and does 30 brute. IMO I'd buff it to 18, which would leave it at 6 hits to crit with a total of 108 damage on an unarmored target. That, or leave it's damage alone and lower it to 1 TC. This would be because a syndicate toolbox also costs 1 TC and does 15 brute, but comes with tools and gloves, while the edagger would do 15 brute minus the tools and gloves. It sounds crazy, a 1 TC weapon, but when you think about it it's not really that bad.

And also I would like to make this clear, one of you said a fire extinguisher does 15 and another said they do 8. Fire extinguishers do 10 damage, guys. Jeez.

The only weapons that can be directly compared to the edagger are the null rod and circular saws (both fit into pockets (i'm pretty sure) and do 15 brute). Both of these are kind of suspicious to carry unless you're the chaplain or a doctor.

[Saegrimr]

What if you just disguise it as a pen instead? Maybe give it some more utility besides "mini esword" like being able to slash open door electronics or something? Would make it a useful offensive weapon as well as an escape tool.

[Stan_Studnick]

This would be because a syndicate toolbox also costs 1 TC and does 15 brute, but comes with tools and gloves, while the edagger would do 15 brute minus the tools and gloves. It sounds crazy, a 1 TC weapon, but when you think about it it's not really that bad.

This sounds fair enough considering that the syndie toolbox isn't exactly suspicious given the number of places you can get them. Keep the damage and bring it down to 1TC sounds fair enough.

What if you just disguise it as a pen instead? Maybe give it some more utility besides "mini esword" like being able to slash open door electronics or something? Would make it a useful offensive weapon as well as an escape tool.

Why can't we shoot door electronics anyway? Bay has it, and it's fucking great but you need to basically use an entire egun to do it which seems more than fair. Not exactly quiet to unload on a door and then pry it open with a crowbar, but it sure as fuck would make nukeops more fun.

I'd love if you could cut through windows or regular walls with an esword or edagger too, goddamn that would be crazy cool. (obviously slowly for windows and even slower for walls for balance) Or make it so you could cut the plating with an esword or edagger like it was a welder, or perhaps function almost identically to a welder. I don't know if lowering the TC would be best if that were the case, it might be a little too powerful, but goddamn it would be cool. I wouldn't give that ability to an esword, which would be better served to have the slice-through ability instead. (be Qui-Gon Jinn, cut through Nanotrasen blast door to get at the Neimodian janitor)

[Fr05tByt3]

What if you just disguise it as a pen instead? Maybe give it some more utility besides "mini esword" like being able to slash open door electronics or something? Would make it a useful offensive weapon as well as an escape tool.

Disguise it as a pen and make it have an open/close function like the esword.
Maybe make it not announce with a message/sound effect, but make the in-hand sprite noticeable. That way, if someone had it ready to cut butts drops it and sec picks it up, they're tatorsalad.

[lumipharon]

https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-statio ... s/tools.dm

Welding tool. 15 burn, readily available to every person on the station, also a small item, not a traitor weapon.

This e-pen is a neat idea, but there is literally no reason to ever use it.

[Luke Cox]

Make it do bonus damage if used from behind and I'm sold

[Stan_Studnick]

Make it do bonus damage if used from behind and I'm sold

I'd be willing to give this up if they doubled as a welding tool, being able to snip through plating and use the dagger as a tool you can hide in your PDA or a clipboard would be hilariously great. I'd love if traitors could conceal items inside their person (swallowing, implanting, etc) so your awesome little e-dagger could maybe get you out of perma when you snip through the wall plating and slice up the girders.

[callanrockslol]

Make it do bonus damage if used from behind and I'm sold

What stops me instantly turning around and bashing someones brains in while they fail to backstab me?

[Miauw]

backstabbing is not really something i want to implement, because of how heading currently matters literally nowhere in spacemans and is pretty finnicky to control.
it's possible, but I doubt it would be good.

i've made a new PR with 2 TC and 18 brute, hopefully this is a bit more useful. link in a sec. https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/11232

[invisty]

On a vaguely related note, why is the throw command so fucking slow to respond on high ping connections ~250+?

When I try to use the throw hotkey it takes up to a full second before throw mode comes into effect. I've seen some people chain-throw a bunch of these e-daggers in little more than a second.

[Incomptinence]

Oh why didn't you say it had boosted throwforce? 35 throw and 100% embed chance seems pretty rad.

[Cik]

when will coderbus implement hiding things in boots and sleeves so i can play a d7d rogue pls

[TheNightingale]

We already have hiding things in sleeves; they're called pockets. (Giving exosuits their own pocket slots would be good, though - like how Bay's labcoats or hazard vests can hold two items, and webbing can add more storage to jumpsuits.)

E: Suit storage. I knew there was something I missed.

[lumipharon]

35 throw damage and 100% embed? Holy shit that's just throwing stars only good.

[TechnoAlchemist]

Why buy throwing stars when you can just buy 3 of these?

[Scott]

We already have hiding things in sleeves; they're called pockets. (Giving exosuits their own pocket slots would be good, though - like how Bay's labcoats or hazard vests can hold two items, and webbing can add more storage to jumpsuits.)

That already exists, it's suit storage.

[Anonmare]

Being able to hide weapons or objects in clothes would be neat, though it'd have to eb reserved for certain objects. We don't want people walking around carrying singletank bombs in their jumpsuits now do we?

[DemonFiren]

No, but TTVs would be okay.

[Stan_Studnick]

Being able to hide weapons or objects in clothes would be neat, though it'd have to eb reserved for certain objects. We don't want people walking around carrying singletank bombs in their jumpsuits now do we?

I think existing pocket code would be used anyway, it makes no sense if your suit pocket can carry something but your same-size vest pocket couldn't do the exact same thing.

[Ahammer18]

Could make them into energy "scalpels" ie, twist the pen, energy blade appears. This would prevent meta if you made the weapon DNA lockable.

[Alex Crimson]

Fuck no. People went crazy when it was suggested Security be given locked weapons. No way traitors should get them.

[callanrockslol]

Why buy throwing stars when you can just buy 3 of these?

Buff throwing stars for 100% embed.

[Gun Hog]

Fuck no. People went crazy when it was suggested Security be given locked weapons. No way traitors should get them.

But Security CAN have locked weapons via Loyalty Implants. Anyway, I do not agree with weapons being stealth-locked to a Traitor. Disguised utility items and armor are fine in my book, but all weapons should be at least test-able in some manner. Even now, some Traitor items can be revealed in destructive analyzer machine in Science.

[callanrockslol]

Fuck no. People went crazy when it was suggested Security be given locked weapons. No way traitors should get them.

But Security CAN have locked weapons via Loyalty Implants. Anyway, I do not agree with weapons being stealth-locked to a Traitor. Disguised utility items and armor are fine in my book, but all weapons should be at least test-able in some manner. Even now, some Traitor items can be revealed in destructive analyzer machine in Science.

They can have them but they are locked away behind science, they don't get made very often because reasons, they also don't start with them.

[Takeguru]

Practice Laser in sec should start loyalty pinned just for shits and giggles.